7:35 a.m.
Hi.
I just stumbled over easyUbuntu [1] and got a idea to add some kind of
installation Wizard in yumex, to make it easy to add all the
extra stuff need to get your fedora running.
* Nvidia drivers.
* ATI Drivers
* NTFS support.
* MP3 support.
* Movie player with codecs. (Mplayer, gstreamer etc).
* Java
* Flash
I want to make some kind of XML format to creating the Wizard entries
and the actions behind. The different people can make there own wizards
and people can just drag and drop an URL to a wizard XML into yumex to
add the wizard entries to the installation wizard. This could be a way
to close the gap between a FOSS distribution and the non free or patent
related stuff, there never can be included in Fedora.
Let me now what you think, is it a totally lame idea or is it a way to go.
Tim
Yum Extender Developer.
[1] : http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/overview.html
7:53 a.m.
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 14:35 +0200, Tim Lauridsen wrote:
Hi.
I just stumbled over easyUbuntu [1] and got a idea to add some kind of
installation Wizard in yumex, to make it easy to add all the
extra stuff need to get your fedora running.
* Nvidia drivers.
* ATI Drivers
* NTFS support.
* MP3 support.
* Movie player with codecs. (Mplayer, gstreamer etc).
* Java
* Flash
I want to make some kind of XML format to creating the Wizard entries
and the actions behind. The different people can make there own wizards
and people can just drag and drop an URL to a wizard XML into yumex to
add the wizard entries to the installation wizard. This could be a way
to close the gap between a FOSS distribution and the non free or patent
related stuff, there never can be included in Fedora.
Let me now what you think, is it a totally lame idea or is it a way to go.
It's a nice idea, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_infringement#Active_inducement_of_inf...
--
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazquez(a)ivazquez.net>
http://fedora.ivazquez.net/
gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72
8:14 a.m.
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 14:35 +0200, Tim Lauridsen wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I just stumbled over easyUbuntu [1] and got a idea to add some kind of
> installation Wizard in yumex, to make it easy to add all the
> extra stuff need to get your fedora running.
>
> * Nvidia drivers.
> * ATI Drivers
> * NTFS support.
> * MP3 support.
> * Movie player with codecs. (Mplayer, gstreamer etc).
> * Java
> * Flash
>
> I want to make some kind of XML format to creating the Wizard entries
> and the actions behind. The different people can make there own wizards
> and people can just drag and drop an URL to a wizard XML into yumex to
> add the wizard entries to the installation wizard. This could be a way
> to close the gap between a FOSS distribution and the non free or patent
> related stuff, there never can be included in Fedora.
> Let me now what you think, is it a totally lame idea or is it a way to go.
>
It's a nice idea, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_infringement#Active_inducement_of_inf...
I just want to code a easy way to install things, not try to break any
patent, i will not include anything illegal into yumex, but people
located i place where software patents don't exist, can make a wizard
plugin to install the stuff hosted in places like livna or freshrpms.
I same way as yum and rpm can be used to installed patent releated
stuff, but it is not the purpose of the application.
Tim
11:41 a.m.
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:14:22 +0200
Tim Lauridsen <tla-ml(a)rasmil.dk> wrote:
I just want to code a easy way to install things, not try to break
any
patent, i will not include anything illegal into yumex, but people
located i place where software patents don't exist, can make a wizard
plugin to install the stuff hosted in places like livna or freshrpms.
I same way as yum and rpm can be used to installed patent releated
stuff, but it is not the purpose of the application.
It's already possible for a user to click-install a rpm that adds
many repo entries without the need for a wizard. After that
calling up yumex to install whatever packages are desired is easy.
However, AFAIK there isn't a graphical method to enable and disable
yum repos. Adding that feature would help to make things easier and
safer. It would then be reasonable for a single rpm to install
multiple repos, and let the user individually enable them as desired.
Perhaps any comments included in each repo file could be shown to
the user as well.
$0.02,
Sean
8:24 a.m.
On 10/04/06, Tim Lauridsen <tla-ml(a)rasmil.dk> wrote:
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 14:35 +0200, Tim Lauridsen wrote:
Hi.
I just stumbled over easyUbuntu [1] and got a idea to add some kind of
installation Wizard in yumex, to make it easy to add all the
extra stuff need to get your fedora running.
* Nvidia drivers.
* ATI Drivers
* NTFS support.
* MP3 support.
* Movie player with codecs. (Mplayer, gstreamer etc).
* Java
* Flash
I want to make some kind of XML format to creating the Wizard entries
and the actions behind. The different people can make there own wizards
and people can just drag and drop an URL to a wizard XML into yumex to
add the wizard entries to the installation wizard. This could be a way
to close the gap between a FOSS distribution and the non free or patent
related stuff, there never can be included in Fedora.
Let me now what you think, is it a totally lame idea or is it a way to go.
It's a nice idea, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_infringement#Active_inducement_of_inf...
I just want to code a easy way to install things, not try to break any
patent, i will not include anything illegal into yumex, but people located i
place where software patents don't exist, can make a wizard plugin to
install the stuff hosted in places like livna or freshrpms.
I same way as yum and rpm can be used to installed patent releated stuff,
but it is not the purpose of the application.
Tim
This is good idea. Give the option in yumex to install and run a
install wizard rpm/textfile located on dries for example (display a
list of popular repos). This will then display the wizard allowing the
installation of whatever packages are listed this rpm/texfile located
on dries. Neither redhat, fedora or yourself are in direct control of
the contents of this wizard file located on dries. Also give option to
install rpm wizard packages from other sources.
I don't see any infringement here? Please correct me if I am wrong,
Garry
8:34 a.m.
On 4/21/06, Garry Harthill <gazzerh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is good idea.
Its a horrible idea., because it makes it that much easier for random
inexperienced users to create mind-numbingly simple ways to create
scripts that breaks other inexperienced users systems. For ever one
of these scripts which will be provided by a reputable maintainer
there will be a vast array of such scripts sitting in
random-joe-user's personal blog or "help site" which hasn't seen a
shred of testing by anyone else and willy-nilly enabled a array of
repositories with conflicting update paths causing updating problems
for any user who happens to find that random script on the web.
What happens when stanton writes his yumex installer script which
makes slightly different but conflicting choices than the dries
script? What happens with atrpms adds yet another script which again
makes slightly different but conflicting choices? And the poor user
attempts to use all 3 because they each cover unique functionality?
-jef"Can wait to add pathelogical yumex install scripts to his
repository webpage of pathelogical packages of doom repository"spaleta
10:19 p.m.
On 21/04/06, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/21/06, Garry Harthill <gazzerh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> This is good idea.
Its a horrible idea., because it makes it that much easier for random
inexperienced users to create mind-numbingly simple ways to create
scripts that breaks other inexperienced users systems. For ever one
of these scripts which will be provided by a reputable maintainer
there will be a vast array of such scripts sitting in
random-joe-user's personal blog or "help site" which hasn't seen a
shred of testing by anyone else and willy-nilly enabled a array of
repositories with conflicting update paths causing updating problems
for any user who happens to find that random script on the web.
What happens when stanton writes his yumex installer script which
makes slightly different but conflicting choices than the dries
script? What happens with atrpms adds yet another script which again
makes slightly different but conflicting choices? And the poor user
attempts to use all 3 because they each cover unique functionality?
-jef"Can wait to add pathelogical yumex install scripts to his
repository webpage of pathelogical packages of doom repository"spaleta
I can see that it could be a problem for a lot of harmful scripts to
be introduced. However, it is *very* easy for users to install an RPM
for a destructive repo with enable=1 without them really knowing what
damage they do when they yum install or update. If the "default" yumex
repo wizard choices are carefully chosen then where is the problem? In
fact because they are carefully chosen this could reduce destroyed
systems due to yum repo misuse.
Garry
3:40 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 09:34:58AM -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 4/21/06, Garry Harthill <gazzerh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> This is good idea.
Its a horrible idea., because it makes it that much easier for random
inexperienced users to create mind-numbingly simple ways to create
scripts that breaks other inexperienced users systems. For ever one
of these scripts which will be provided by a reputable maintainer
there will be a vast array of such scripts sitting in
random-joe-user's personal blog or "help site" which hasn't seen a
shred of testing by anyone else and willy-nilly enabled a array of
repositories with conflicting update paths causing updating problems
for any user who happens to find that random script on the web.
What happens when stanton writes his yumex installer script which
makes slightly different but conflicting choices than the dries
script? What happens with atrpms adds yet another script which again
makes slightly different but conflicting choices?
What kind of script from atrpms are you thinking of? I may be off base
(or topic), since I don't really know what yumex scripts can/should
do, but ATrpms' policy is to let the users mess themselves with their
configs (and therefore be responsible themselves for the bullet hole
in their foot ;).
All ATrpms does is offer an optional medley-package-config script that
adds a lot of untampered with repos (no weighing, priorities etc),
which the user needs to shape (turn off etc). It also offers (again an
optional) package to use ATrpms' mirrors of fedora core contents.
There is a polite request to either use ATrpms properly (and not
partially enabled) or not at all, as there have been just too many
bugs resulting from that. But this policy is not enforced by scripts.
And the poor user attempts to use all 3 because they each cover
unique functionality?
-jef"Can wait to add pathelogical yumex install scripts to his
repository webpage of pathelogical packages of doom repository"spaleta
--
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net
8:40 a.m.
On 4/10/06, Tim Lauridsen <tla-ml(a)rasmil.dk> wrote:
I want to make some kind of XML format to creating the Wizard
entries
and the actions behind. The different people can make there own wizards
and people can just drag and drop an URL to a wizard XML into yumex to
add the wizard entries to the installation wizard. This could be a way
to close the gap between a FOSS distribution and the non free or patent
related stuff, there never can be included in Fedora.
Let me now what you think, is it a totally lame idea or is it a way to go.
So if you don't include the wizard in yumex in Fedora Extras because
of legal constraints... how exactly do people find the wizards?
Google searches? I think you are overthinking the problem and coming
up with pretty much the most complicated solution that you can think
of. You don't need an extra layer of code... for some weird ass xml
object that describes how to get an rpm....all you need is drag and
drop support of rpm urls directly. You still have to rely on people
finding something on the web so the xml installer plugin concept isn't
solving the underlying problem. If people can google search to find
these new xml object urls.. they can most certaintly google search and
find the rpm urls.
-jef
12:31 p.m.
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 09:40 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
I think you are overthinking the problem and coming
up with pretty much the most complicated solution that you can think
of. You don't need an extra layer of code... for some weird ass xml
object that describes how to get an rpm....all you need is drag and
drop support of rpm urls directly.
Direct linking to rpms bypasses everything yum does for you. It won't
ensure its the latest version of the package, and it won't dep solve.
And its not possible to install multiple packages with a single click.
12:48 p.m.
On 4/11/06, Callum Lerwick <seg(a)haxxed.com> wrote:
Direct linking to rpms bypasses everything yum does for you. It
won't
ensure its the latest version of the package, and it won't dep solve.
And its not possible to install multiple packages with a single click.
Installing multiple packages from multiple different repository
locations with multiple different purposes which could in fact
multiple overlap in and confuse the update mechanims.. with a single
click... is bloody stupid and asking for problems specifically because
you are delibrately hiding information as to the different places you
are getting those different packages.
If you want to make it drop dead simple to add additional repos..fine.
But any single click mehod that delibrate goes out and configures
several different repos to pull several different packages is asking
for trouble when it comes to updates and upgrades. Once you have a
single click url object that breaks repository boundaries to
accomplish its actions.. all bets are off for reproducible behavior on
the client side because 3rd party repos conflict and overlap.
-jef
6:08 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 13:48 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Installing multiple packages from multiple different repository
locations with multiple different purposes which could in fact
multiple overlap in and confuse the update mechanims.. with a single
click... is bloody stupid and asking for problems specifically because
you are delibrately hiding information as to the different places you
are getting those different packages.
This is no different than what already happens.
6615
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6627
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11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Axel Thimm -
Callum Lerwick -
Garry Harthill -
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -
Jef Spaleta -
Sean -
Tim Lauridsen