11:43 p.m.
Hi all,
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made this
instead. Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
Here's the full url:
http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Let me know if there are any bugs!
Emily
1:09 a.m.
On 07/29/2010 07:43 AM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made this
<http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead. Everyone
go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
Awesome Emily, this is what we we needed
Here's the full url:
http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Looking comparatively, I can say I *do* prefer Cantarell, it is more
spaced, having "air to breath"... compared with it Droid looks to me
crammed, busy.
I also like Cantarell shapes, think they are more elegant, giving us a
more special, individual look - compare for example the glyph for "8" in
both fonts.
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
3:55 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:09 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
On 07/29/2010 07:43 AM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
>
> I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
> thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made this
> <http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead. Everyone
> go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
Awesome Emily, this is what we we needed
+10
> Here's the full url:
> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Looking comparatively, I can say I *do* prefer Cantarell, it is more
spaced, having "air to breath"... compared with it Droid looks to me
crammed, busy.
I also like Cantarell shapes, think they are more elegant, giving us a
more special, individual look - compare for example the glyph for "8" in
both fonts.
I also prefer the Cantarell shapes (by a large margin) but on the flip
side, on my F12 while Droid Sans is hinted perfectly well (just like
DejaVu Sans is), Cantarell is blurry. The English is so so, but Greek
and Russian really suffer a lot (LCD display, subpixel smoothing, full
hinting). Although, by playing with it in gimp it seems like autohinter
is for some reason off for Cantarell...
Martin
4:04 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 10:55 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:09 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> On 07/29/2010 07:43 AM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
> >
> > I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
> > thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made this
> > <http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead. Everyone
> > go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
>
> Awesome Emily, this is what we we needed
+10
> > Here's the full url:
> > http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
>
> Looking comparatively, I can say I *do* prefer Cantarell, it is more
> spaced, having "air to breath"... compared with it Droid looks to me
> crammed, busy.
> I also like Cantarell shapes, think they are more elegant, giving us a
> more special, individual look - compare for example the glyph for "8" in
> both fonts.
>
I also prefer the Cantarell shapes (by a large margin) but on the flip
side, on my F12 while Droid Sans is hinted perfectly well (just like
DejaVu Sans is), Cantarell is blurry. The English is so so, but Greek
and Russian really suffer a lot (LCD display, subpixel smoothing, full
hinting). Although, by playing with it in gimp it seems like autohinter
is for some reason off for Cantarell...
So freetype-freeworld was at fault. Removing it saved the day, but now
my usual DejaVu governed desktop looks a bit worse...
Martin
8:47 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:43 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
Hi all,
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
this instead. Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font
already. :)
Here's the full url:
http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Wow, that's really amazing Emily - you've written an app in its own
right here! :)
I'm definitely liking Cantarell more. Like Nicu said, it feels it has
more breathing spacing and I think is a bit easier to read.
~m
8:54 a.m.
On 07/29/2010 04:47 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:43 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
>
> Here's the full url:
> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Wow, that's really amazing Emily - you've written an app in its own
right here! :)
Can we give her another ninja award? Or increase her belt color?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
9:06 a.m.
Cantarell of course. looks very fedora-y.
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro> wrote:
On 07/29/2010 04:47 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:43 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
>>
>> Here's the full url:
>> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
>
> Wow, that's really amazing Emily - you've written an app in its own
> right here! :)
Can we give her another ninja award? Or increase her belt color?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
_______________________________________________
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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
--
---
uzu linukso. subtenu libera programaro.
kotizu al http://www.thebadapples.info/ogg.xml
http://www.fedorareloaded.com
11:11 a.m.
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:47:53AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:43 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
> thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
> this instead. Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font
> already. :)
>
> Here's the full url:
> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Wow, that's really amazing Emily - you've written an app in its own
right here! :)
I'm definitely liking Cantarell more. Like Nicu said, it feels it has
more breathing spacing and I think is a bit easier to read.
Hm, I found the extra kern space is actually making word shape
recognition quite a bit harder in Cantarell. Also, there are some odd
spacing issues, check out:
* 'me' in 'Americans' (line 1)
* 'ms' in 'museums' (line 2)
* 'ed' in 'esteemed' (line 2)
Looks like 'e', 'm', 'F', 'o' are kind of wonky that way.
Gets a
little worse at smaller point sizes.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
12:48 p.m.
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:11:57PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:47:53AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 00:43 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
> > thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
> > this instead. Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font
> > already. :)
> >
> > Here's the full url:
> > http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
>
> Wow, that's really amazing Emily - you've written an app in its own
> right here! :)
>
> I'm definitely liking Cantarell more. Like Nicu said, it feels it has
> more breathing spacing and I think is a bit easier to read.
Hm, I found the extra kern space is actually making word shape
recognition quite a bit harder in Cantarell. Also, there are some odd
spacing issues, check out:
* 'me' in 'Americans' (line 1)
* 'ms' in 'museums' (line 2)
* 'ed' in 'esteemed' (line 2)
Looks like 'e', 'm', 'F', 'o' are kind of wonky that way.
Gets a
little worse at smaller point sizes.
Forgot to point out one other factor, although it's more of a
quantitative one -- the Cantarell text takes quite a bit more
horizontal space for the same material at the same point size. IIRC
that's one of several reasons the Design team had looked at moving
away from DejaVu and the like.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
9:18 a.m.
2010/7/29 Emily Dirsh <emily(a)fightingcrane.com>
Hi all,
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
this<http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/>instead. Everyone go and
try it out so we can pick a font already. [image:
:)]
That's awesome, Emily!
It's weird that Droid Sans looks so bad at regular sizes... It looks much
better if you scale it down (which makes sense I guess since it's for
Android and all). With regular sizes Cantarell looks much better.
I tried it out in a few documents and at smaller sizes Cantarell still looks
nice.
I know very little about fonts but I'd say go with Cantarell - especially
since it's made using FOSS and it isn't used as widely as Droid Sans.
Jef
12:40 p.m.
Yay! good mailing list font discussion. :) I'm glad you like my little
font comparator! ^-^
So, here's my $.02:
I like the line-spacing of Cantarell better - it makes reading from line
to line easier, and I like the glyph shapes for the most part, as well.
But there do seem to be some kerning issues as Paul pointed out. It
doesn't look quite as polished as Droid. And for some reason (probably
just me being OCD) the lowercase 'a' is bugging the crap out of me.
Every time I read something in Cantarell, that 'a' catches my eye. Aside
from my own weird glyph obsession, it also doesn't actually cover (as
far as I can see) the cyrillic or greek scripts. I believe it's just
using the default serif font to display those scripts. So, if that's an
issue, we'll need to either pick another font to cover them, or get
those scripts added to the font (volunteers?).
I find Droid easier to read on a line, and at smaller sizes. Droid also
does have cyrillic and greek, and according to wikipedia, it's supposed
to have CJK support? ¯\(°_°)/¯ And to me, it's cleaner looking... but
that's just an aesthetic preference.
Grr, I'm really conflicted here. I think aesthetically, I like Droid
better overall, but Cantarell is open and source-available, so even
though it has some issues, we can fix them...
4:18 p.m.
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 23:07 +0200, Jef van Schendel wrote:
I find Droid easier to read on a line, and at smaller sizes.
Droid also does have cyrillic and greek, and according to
wikipedia, it's supposed to have CJK support? ¯\(°_°)/¯
AFAIK, CJK means Asian fonts, as in Chinese/Japanese/Korean. Could be
wrong though.
Quoting wikipedia[1]:
"CJK is a collective term for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, which
constitute the main East Asian languages. The term is used in the field
of software and communications internationalization."
So yes, you are basically correct (although Asia is much bigger than
China, Japan and Korea...).
Martin
References:
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CJK
1:44 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
On 28/07/10 09:43 PM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
Hi all,
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that
something interactive would be more useful, so I made this
<http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead. Everyone
go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
I also share view that Cantarell has better linespace and Droid.
However, the latter seems to be better at small size. Because Cantarell
is FOSS, improving it would be a good idea and the active participation
of upstream is a big bonus.
- --
Luya Tshimbalanga
Graphic & Web Designer
E: luya(a)fedoraproject.org
W: http://www.thefinalzone.net
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10:36 p.m.
On 07/29/2010 10:13 AM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
Hi all,
I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
this <http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead.
Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
Here's the full url:
http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
Let me know if there are any bugs!
It works on Firefox but not correctly with Epiphany in Fedora 13, FYI.
Rahul
2:57 a.m.
On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 09:06 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/29/2010 10:13 AM, Emily Dirsh wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I started making up the type samples for font comparison, but I kept
> thinking that something interactive would be more useful, so I made
> this <http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/> instead.
> Everyone go and try it out so we can pick a font already. :)
>
> Here's the full url:
> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight/
>
> Let me know if there are any bugs!
It works on Firefox but not correctly with Epiphany in Fedora 13, FYI.
What exactly does not work? I have no issues (after installing the
needed fonts and restarting the web-browser) in both midori and epiphany
in F12.
Martin
4:26 a.m.
On 07/30/2010 11:00 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/30/2010 01:27 PM, Martin Sourada wrote:
>
> What exactly does not work? I have no issues (after installing the
> needed fonts and restarting the web-browser) in both midori and epiphany
> in F12.
Clicking on the font doesn't re-render the page under droid for example.
Works for me with F13 and Epiphany (still, I do have the fonts installed
on my system)
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
2:32 p.m.
Thanks for letting me know. I'm pretty sure it's because Epiphany isn't
downloading the remote fonts. Epiphany doesn't appear to have a
javascript console, so I can't be sure, but if you have them installed,
it will use the local fonts, so it seems to be a problem with the remote
fonts. It's really odd, because other webkit based browsers
(chrome/chromium) aren't having this problem. :( Well, I don't like it,
but since it at least works on firefox, I'm going to leave it as is. If
anybody wants to play around with the code, it's all contained in that
single html file.
On 07/30/2010 01:27 PM, Martin Sourada wrote:
>
> What exactly does not work? I have no issues (after installing the
> needed fonts and restarting the web-browser) in both midori and epiphany
> in F12.
Clicking on the font doesn't re-render the page under droid for example.
Rahul
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2:48 p.m.
BTW, latest Droid Sans, which should be available in F14, has support
for the following scripts :
aa ab af an ar ast av ay az-ir ba be bg bi bin br bs bua ca ce ch chm co
crh cs csb cu cv cy da de el en eo es et eu fa fi fil fj fo fr fur fy gd
gl gn gv he ho hr hsb ht hu ia id ie ig ik io is it ja jv kaa ki kj kk
kl ko ks ku-tr kum kv kwm ky la lah lb lez lg li lt lv mg mh mk mn-mn ms
mt na nb nds ng nl nn no nr nso ny oc om os pa-pk pap-an pap-aw pl pt rm
rn ru rw sah sc se sel sg sh sk sl sma smj smn sn so sq sr ss st su sv
sw tg th tk tl tn tr ts tt ty tyv ug uk ur uz vo vot wa wen wo xh yap yi
za zh-cn zh-sg zh-tw zu
Regards,
--
Nicolas Mailhot
2:53 p.m.
On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 15:32 -0400, Emily Dirsh wrote:
Thanks for letting me know. I'm pretty sure it's because
Epiphany
isn't downloading the remote fonts. Epiphany doesn't appear to have a
javascript console, so I can't be sure, but if you have them
installed, it will use the local fonts, so it seems to be a problem
with the remote fonts. It's really odd, because other webkit based
browsers (chrome/chromium) aren't having this problem. :( Well, I
Chromium is based on chromium port of webkit, while epiphany uses
webkitgtk port of webkit. First, the webkitgtk we have in F12/13 is way
older (and even older than it should be [1]) than chromium in spot's
repo and second, there are things that are implemented differently in
the various ports so the "feature list" isn't same. I'm not sure but I
think F14 version of webkitgtk should be able to handle remote fonts.
Martin
References:
[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615728
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design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
20 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Emily Dirsh -
Jef van Schendel -
Klaatu -
Luya Tshimbalanga -
Martin Sourada -
Máirín Duffy -
Nicolas Mailhot -
Nicu Buculei -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram