Hi,
We have done our second voting in Nuancier and managed the first time te whole process in it.
The results and statistics are accessible here:
Fedora 20: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/stats/1/ Fedora 21: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/stats/2/
As you can see the number of voters didnt increase that high, 128 on F20 and 116 on F21. With this low number of voters, its easily that submissions with low quality get enough votes to be amongst the winners.
For bettering that there are several options
* increase the number of voters, thats hard to influence at all * make a point voting system first choice gets highest available points, but that is harder to hack * enforce a number of votes as minimum, we didnt want that before as it can have a negative influence that some choose an wallpaper they really like and fill up the rest with random choices. * make a point system and give a group of people higher points to award, like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier
So for me last option is the possible solution for it any other solutions or opinions?
I also have a feeling that not only the number of submissions get decreased as also the quality of the submissions decreased. I also had the opinion of some submitters of high quality pictures, the will not contribute as they felt insulted to end up in the lowest ranks against submissions with lower quality who was ranked much higher
* increase the visibility of the contest, havent written to project and announce lists for F21 to get more submissions again * bring in a mentoring system for submissions
I feel the second option would change the situation for an better quality dramatically, but for it Nuancier have to change a little bit more.
* an submitter can submit more but can have with the help of the mentors choose the right submissions for an final submission (lesser options to vote on with higher quality, would change also the voting problem) * we sooner or later come to the "ubuntu-problem" the had so many submissions that they had to allow only one submission a user, we would avoid getting to such an solution if submitter had any chance to preselect there submission with the help of mentors
What I have in mind with this idea is to build a community around the supplemental wallpaper, we could submitters who have submitted over a time high quality content the status of mentoring others and keep in this way the quality high as well the interest in the supplemental wallpapers.
are there opinions or other ideas to that?
br gnokii
Hey br gnokii,
You included quite a few problem statements and even more solution statements. I hope I'm getting to the core problems you're describing. Apologies if I missed the mark.
It sounds to me, if I'm hearing you correctly, that a first challenge is getting more voters. A second problem is getting higher quality submissions. I don't think changes to the voting software will influence either of those things.
I like your final statement, that you want to build a community around the wallpapers. Some of your solutions below seem counter-productive to encouraging a flourishing community, particularly as it is so relatively young.
I can get behind ideas like: - increase number of voters - increase visibility of the contest - provide more mentoring for submitters
As someone who voted (but didn't submit) this time I don't think nuancier was a problem for me at all in terms of finding 16 high quality images to vote for.
Kirk
On 2014-09-07, 8:44 AM, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi,
We have done our second voting in Nuancier and managed the first time te whole process in it.
The results and statistics are accessible here:
Fedora 20: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/stats/1/ Fedora 21: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/nuancier/stats/2/
As you can see the number of voters didnt increase that high, 128 on F20 and 116 on F21. With this low number of voters, its easily that submissions with low quality get enough votes to be amongst the winners.
For bettering that there are several options
- increase the number of voters, thats hard to influence at all
- make a point voting system first choice gets highest available
points, but that is harder to hack
- enforce a number of votes as minimum, we didnt want that before as
it can have a negative influence that some choose an wallpaper they really like and fill up the rest with random choices.
- make a point system and give a group of people higher points to
award, like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier
So for me last option is the possible solution for it any other solutions or opinions?
I also have a feeling that not only the number of submissions get decreased as also the quality of the submissions decreased. I also had the opinion of some submitters of high quality pictures, the will not contribute as they felt insulted to end up in the lowest ranks against submissions with lower quality who was ranked much higher
- increase the visibility of the contest, havent written to project
and announce lists for F21 to get more submissions again
- bring in a mentoring system for submissions
I feel the second option would change the situation for an better quality dramatically, but for it Nuancier have to change a little bit more.
- an submitter can submit more but can have with the help of the
mentors choose the right submissions for an final submission (lesser options to vote on with higher quality, would change also the voting problem)
- we sooner or later come to the "ubuntu-problem" the had so many
submissions that they had to allow only one submission a user, we would avoid getting to such an solution if submitter had any chance to preselect there submission with the help of mentors
What I have in mind with this idea is to build a community around the supplemental wallpaper, we could submitters who have submitted over a time high quality content the status of mentoring others and keep in this way the quality high as well the interest in the supplemental wallpapers.
are there opinions or other ideas to that?
br gnokii
-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
- make a point system and give a group of people higher points to award,
like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier
This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for one or more FAS groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that can help the submitters to increase the quality of their submission.
Cheers, Pierre
Hi,
2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
- make a point system and give a group of people higher points to
award,
like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier
This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for one or more FAS groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that can help the submitters to increase the quality of their submission.
thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the points. Shall I start to get an mentors group together?
br gnokii
Cheers, Pierre
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:14:41AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi, 2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A * make a point system and give a group of people higher points to award, >A A like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for one or more FAS groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that can help the submitters to increase the quality of their submission.thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the points. Shall I start to get an mentors group together?
Sorry, I seem to have take the wrong quote from your email.
What we have now is: - members of one or more groups have a vote weight of 2 (while regular users have a vote weight of 1), so (for example) votes from members of sysadmin-nuancier FAS group count double compared to the people outside this group. - members of one or more groups can view the review page in the admin panel as read-only. This way they can see the submission before they are approved/denied and contact the submitter to discuss if there are ways to improve their submission
Hope this clears things up,
Regards, Pierre
Hi,
2014-09-29 10:33 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:14:41AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi, 2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A * make a point system and give a group of people higherpoints to
award, >A A like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for one ormore
FAS groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that canhelp
the submitters to increase the quality of their submission.thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the points. Shall I start to get an mentors group together?
Sorry, I seem to have take the wrong quote from your email.
What we have now is:
- members of one or more groups have a vote weight of 2 (while regular
users have a vote weight of 1), so (for example) votes from members of sysadmin-nuancier FAS group count double compared to the people outside this group.
- members of one or more groups can view the review page in the admin
panel as read-only. This way they can see the submission before they are approved/denied and contact the submitter to discuss if there are ways to improve their submission
which groups? Does it mean CLA +1? can see them?
br gnokii
Hope this clears things up,
Regards, Pierre
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 10:53:20AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi, 2014-09-29 10:33 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:14:41AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A Hi, >A A 2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon <pingou@pingoured.fr>: > >A A A On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A A >AA AA * make a point system and give a group of people higher points to >A A A award, >A A A >AA AA like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier > >A A A This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for one or more >A A A FAS >A A A groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. >A A A This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that can help >A A A the >A A A submitters to increase the quality of their submission. > >A A thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the points. >A A Shall I start to get an mentors group together? Sorry, I seem to have take the wrong quote from your email. What we have now is: - members of one or more groups have a vote weight of 2 (while regular users have A a vote weight of 1), so (for example) votes from members of sysadmin-nuancier A FAS group count double compared to the people outside this group.A
- members of one or more groups can view the review page in the admin panel as A read-only. This way they can see the submission before they are A approved/denied and contact the submitter to discuss if there are ways to A improve their submissionwhich groups? Does it mean CLA +1? can see them?
One or more groups that we define in the configuration file, so it's up to us. We can use an existing group or create a new one. There is nothing enforced in the application, it's all configurable.
Pierre
Hi,
2014-10-01 11:07 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 10:53:20AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi, 2014-09-29 10:33 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:14:41AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A Hi, >A A 2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon <pingou@pingoured.fr>: > >A A A On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A A >AA AA * make a point system and give a group of people higher points to >A A A award, >A A A >AA AA like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier > >A A A This feature has been added, as well as the possibilityfor
one or more >A A A FAS >A A A groups to access to review page from the admin panel as read-only. >A A A This would be a first step to build up a group of mentorthat
can help >A A A the >A A A submitters to increase the quality of their submission. > >A A thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the points. >A A Shall I start to get an mentors group together? Sorry, I seem to have take the wrong quote from your email. What we have now is: - members of one or more groups have a vote weight of 2 (whileregular
users have A a vote weight of 1), so (for example) votes from members of sysadmin-nuancier A FAS group count double compared to the people outside this group.A
- members of one or more groups can view the review page in theadmin
panel as A read-only. This way they can see the submission before they are A approved/denied and contact the submitter to discuss if there are ways to A improve their submissionwhich groups? Does it mean CLA +1? can see them?
One or more groups that we define in the configuration file, so it's up to us. We can use an existing group or create a new one. There is nothing enforced in the application, it's all configurable.
aah, so we can double the points for group design-team and create nuancier-mentors group and double them also. Means on the end I can start find mentors ;)
br gnokii
Pierre _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 11:39:35AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi, 2014-10-01 11:07 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr:
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 10:53:20AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A Hi, >A A 2014-09-29 10:33 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon <pingou@pingoured.fr>: > >A A A On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 10:14:41AM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A A >AA AA Hi, >A A A >AA AA 2014-09-28 17:24 GMT+02:00 Pierre-Yves Chibon >A A A <pingou@pingoured.fr>: >A A A > >A A A >AA AA AA On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 05:44:06PM +0200, S.Kemter wrote: >A A A >AA AA AA >AAA AAA * make a point system and give a group of people >A A A higher points to >A A A >AA AA AA award, >A A A >AA AA AA >AAA AAA like design-team and/or sysamin-nuancier >A A A > >A A A >AA AA AA This feature has been added, as well as the possibility for >A A A one or more >A A A >AA AA AA FAS >A A A >AA AA AA groups to access to review page from the admin panel as >A A A read-only. >A A A >AA AA AA This would be a first step to build up a group of mentor that >A A A can help >A A A >AA AA AA the >A A A >AA AA AA submitters to increase the quality of their submission. >A A A > >A A A >AA AA thats great news, how is it solved right now? I mean with the >A A A points. >A A A >AA AA Shall I start to get an mentors group together? > >A A A Sorry, I seem to have take the wrong quote from your email. > >A A A What we have now is: >A A A - members of one or more groups have a vote weight of 2 (while regular >A A A users have >A A A AA a vote weight of 1), so (for example) votes from members of >A A A sysadmin-nuancier >A A A AA FAS group count double compared to the people outside this group. > >A A A > >A A A - members of one or more groups can view the review page in the admin >A A A panel as >A A A AA read-only. This way they can see the submission before they are >A A A AA approved/denied and contact the submitter to discuss if there are >A A A ways to >A A A AA improve their submission > >A A which groups? Does it mean CLA +1? can see them? One or more groups that we define in the configuration file, so it's up to us. We can use an existing group or create a new one. There is nothing enforced in the application, it's all configurable.aah, so we can double the points for group design-team and create nuancier-mentors group and double them also. Means on the end I can start find mentors ;)
Correct :)
Cheers!
Pierre
design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Kirk Bridger -
Pierre-Yves Chibon -
S.Kemter