by Havoc Pennington
I'd like to see some more detailed test plans for the Fedora desktop.
These need not be complicated or long, just a set of basic things we
want to try out in each of the major apps and in the OS itself.
Here are some notes I have on things we might include. I know that some
of these tests would not pass at the moment, no need to point that out
- basic run through a login session; log in, log out, launch some
apps; does anything embarassing happen
- install previous version of the OS; log in to a user account,
play with some things, change settings; tar up and save the
user home directory; install current version of the OS,
and unpack same user home directory; repeat the above basic
run through a login session
- develop list of major apps that must be tested, check basic
functionality of each. e.g. browser, office, mail, IM, etc.
- input methods work in these apps
- printing works properly in all 10 languages from these major apps
- Windows printers are detected and shown automatically in print
- CUPS printers are detected and shown automatically in print dialog
- in Nautilus, verify that Windows file shares appear automatically
and the files there can be opened on double click, specifically
check MS Office files
- verify that plugging in several representative USB storage devices
results in them appearing on the desktop and working
- verify that if a local USB printer is plugged in, it is automatically
configured and made available
- verify that on plugging a network cable the link is automatically
brought up and dhcp run
- verify that wireless networking can be used without resorting
to the command line at all
- login to FC1/2, login to FC3 same homedir, run through
major apps and check for confusion with shared NFS homedir
- login on two different machines, same homedir, with same FC
version, check for badness
- login twice on same machine same user and check for badness
- test lockdown of settings, ensure desktop behaves properly and
user can't avoid the lockdown
- test X on some list of video hardware; automated smoke test
- accessibility, e.g. test screen reader and onscreen keyboard
- correct fonts used in 10 languages for set of common font
- suite of Microsoft documents to be imported correctly
(screenshots of correct appearance?)
- suite of web pages to render correctly
- cut-and-paste to/from a big matrix of sources/targets
- out of disk space, behavior on login and when saving
from the major apps
- set date/time backward, see if desktop or login breaks
- run any test suites we have for specific components
- verify that all browser plugins work (including
the proprietary ones available from third parties)
- verify important MIME associations, e.g. .doc opens in
- test use of an Active Directory account for Linux login
As you can see from the list, the plans need to be more specific, and
point to the files (tarred up homedirs, web pages, office documents,
etc.) to be used.
18 years, 8 months
gcc-3.4.1 on amd64
by Muhammad Soofi
Dear Fedora users,
I am trying to install gcc-3.4.1 on my desktop which
has an amd64 processor, running Fedora Core 2. The
system has gcc-3.3.3 and attempts to upgrade it to
gcc-3.4.1 has been unsuccessful.
In the first attempt everything was kept as default.
The process failed in the "make bootstrap" stage
with the error:
fatal error, run-time library not installed
correctly cannot locate file system.ads
Learning that this error is related to Ada part of
gcc, decided to exclude Ada from the gcc
implementation with the option:
This also failed with the error,
/usr/bin/ld: crti.o: No such file or directory
actual location of the file is,
The procedure I am following is as follow:
| In the directory ran
gcc-3.4.1 following commands:
-> make bootstrap
-> make install
The above procedure worked for installation of
gcc-3.4.1 on a PII machine running Fedora Core 2
but cannot pass "make bootstrap" for amd64 machine.
Any suggestion towards the solution of the problem
would be highly appreciated. Thank you.
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18 years, 8 months
Updating to GNOME 2.7
by Mark McLoughlin
Just a heads up - starting soon we're going to be updating FC3 to GNOME
2.7. Its a lot of packages and there are bound to be transient problems
but hopefully things won't be too bad.
We'll also be going through the process (on fedora-desktop-list) of
figuring out which of the new GNOME packages we'll be including in FC3.
>From a cursory look, those are:
Appended is the list of packages which need updating. Obviously, more
packages will need updating as releases upstream happen.
As this is happening, please do test and report any brokenness on
fedora-test-list - we'll let you know whether its a simple transient
issue or something you should put into bugzilla.
ORBit2 2.10.0 2.11.1
pango 1.4.0 1.5.1
atk 1.6.0 1.7.2
GConf2 2.6.0 188.8.131.52
gnome-vfs2 2.6.0 2.7.4
audiofile 0.2.5 0.2.6
libgnome 2.6.0 2.7.2
libgnomecanvas 184.108.40.206 2.7.1
libbonoboui 2.6.0 2.6.1
libgnomeui 2.6.0 2.7.2
gail 1.6.0 1.6.6
at-spi 1.4.0 1.5.3
bug-buddy 2.6.1 2.7.0
desktop-file-utils 0.4 0.7
eel2 2.6.0 2.7.3
eog 2.6.1 2.7.0
epiphany 1.2.6 1.3.3
file-roller 2.6.2 2.7.2
gal 0.24 2.1.12
gconf-editor 2.6.0 2.7.4
gdm 220.127.116.11 18.104.22.168
gedit 2.6.1 2.7.1
ggv 2.6.1 2.7.0
gnome-applets 22.214.171.124 2.7.0
gnome-desktop 126.96.36.199 2.7.4
gnome-games 2.6.2 2.7.5
gnome-icon-theme 1.2.0 1.3.5
gnome-keyring 0.2.0 0.3.2
gnome-media 2.6.2 2.7.1
gnome-netstatus 188.8.131.52 184.108.40.206
gnome-panel 2.6.0 220.127.116.11
gnome-session 2.6.0 2.7.4
gnome-speech 0.3.2 0.3.3
gnome-system-monitor 2.6.0 2.7.0
gnome-terminal 2.6.0 2.7.3
gnome-themes 2.6.0 2.7.3
gnome-utils 2.6.2 2.7.0
gnopernicus 0.9.5 0.9.6
gok 0.11.2 0.11.5
gpdf 0.131 2.7.2
gtkhtml 1.1.9 3.1.18
gtksourceview 1.0.0 1.0.1
libgail-gnome 1.0.2 1.0.5
gtkhtml2 2.6.0 2.6.2
libgtop2 2.5.2 2.7.4
librsvg2 2.6.4 2.7.2
libwnck 18.104.22.168 22.214.171.124
nautilus 2.6.0 2.7.2
nautilus-cd-burner 2.6.0 2.7.4
startup-notification 0.6 0.7
vino 126.96.36.199 2.7.4
pygtk 2.2.0 2.3.94
18 years, 8 months
Comments Regarding Linux Desktop Usability for Teenagers
by Jonathan Marc Bearak
I believe that one of the most intriguing areas of desktop usability is
for teenagers. That is, not teenagers such as myself, but rather ones
who are not hackers and are not unusually knowledgeable about computers
for someone of their age group. My sister, who is 15, has now been
working with Fedora Core 2 for a few weeks.
She is not particularly adept with computers. I often needed to help
with simple tasks on Windows, such as setting up a printer. She is not
someone who would typically be running Linux. I will say quickly
regarding why she switched that she experienced platform reliability
issues and recently faced a situation requiring a clean install. My
main interest at this point, however, is in her continued use of Linux.
She commented to me that she no longer misses Windows because she has
found Fedora to be reliable. It is extremely important to understand
that she is not referring to the Windows OS but the platform as a
whole. The Linux desktop is actively working to create a clean and
consistent environment. Applications on Windows are often inconsistent
The desktop platform is what appeals to her -- not Linux itself. From a
person without any understanding of open source or the GPL, the concept
of the Linux kernel, or any interest in our politics, that is a user's
perspective which should make desktop developers proud of the progress
that has been made.
I have had to help in several areas to maintain my sister's now-Linux
computer. These have not been in areas of cross-platform compatibility,
but of interaction with the system.
As I recall, one of the first things I had to do was install giFToxic.
I used Dag Wiers' yum repository. I found that files were missing in
/usr/lib/giFT and so copied files from my computer's /usr/local/lib/giFT
(compiled) to her notebook. I also copied my .giFT directory. This is
not something that is likely to be dealt with in Fedora development, nor
should it. I know that without peer-to-peer software and without the
ability to download music, she would not continue using her computer.
This is a predominant aspect of teenage computer use, and one that is
difficult to overlook.
I installed multimedia apps through yum. A standard procedure, and
frankly, easier than Windows -- just a command and some patience.
Password, enter, wait.
I installed RealPlayer 10. I thought this would be necessary for
streaming media now that she doesn't have Windows Media Player. She
complained that launch.com doesn't work. I remembered something obscure
-- launch only worked in Netscape 4. I couldn't remember why, but that
was the case. I installed netscape-navigator from the Dag yum
repository. This of course is already beyond what a normal user would
even think vaguely about. I then opened Launchcast. The window opened,
and I awaited the Flash applet to load. But I was told that it could
not work; Launchcast requires Windows Media Player. I didn't
immediately understand this -- I used to use Launch not so many years
ago. RealPlayer had been an option in the past.
This bring up another platform issue: multimedia. Linux desktop
applications exist that are compatible with Office documents. But Linux
multimedia has is limited by outside factors.
Fortunately, giFToxic satisfied her needs; she could watch music videos
on her computer. I would point out that WMA support is going to be
necessary in applications like Rhythmbox, which she seems to use as her
only audio player. Her downloaded songs are mp3's, and I had Ogg Vorbis
copies of much of her music. CD's which she had already ripped were in
mp3 format only because I set Windows Media Player to encode to mp3s
almost immediately after she first bought her notebook. This is not the
case for most individuals, and there is not much that can be done to
stop people from making WMA recordings. Down the line, this will be a
big factor in people trying Linux. (It is somewhat analogous to the
concept of "addicting" college students to Napster subscriptions.)
Another area was in setting up her printer. On Windows, this involved
downloading and installing drivers for her (HP PhotoSmart P1100)
printer. It took me a long time, and was way too complex. On Linux, I
simply plugged in the printer, chose /dev/USB/lp0 in the Add Printer
druid, chose the appropriate printer from the list, and was done.
Still, she could not figure out how to set up her printer. Of course
not -- /dev/USB/lp0 is meaningless. I looked in System Tools->Hardware
Browser. The Linux desktop knows that's her printer (regardless of the
apps involved in detecting that detail (kudzu is irrelevant to her)).
The printer configuration application should match /dev/USB/lp0 to the
name of the printer attached to the USB port. It's a matter of
terminology; a small detail that totally removes a user's ability to
administer the system despite the rest of the procedure being
Further, the new desktop background interface is unusable without
explanation. There are no choices given by default! I had to show her
to /usr/share/backgrounds in Nautilus and demonstrate dragging images
into the Desktop Background window to change them. A simple solution is
having a something akin to Apple's "Desktop Pictures" / "Choose Folder"
options in the Mac OS X Desktop Background settings application.
Also related to Gnome configuration, I asked if she liked Bluecurve.
She wasn't fond of it. She didn't hate it, but she didn't like it
either. (Nothing to say regarding Bluecurve's quality; I use the
default theme with the Bluecurve-Gnome color scheme.) I showed her that
she simply had to go to Prefs->Theme. She was confused "where's the
preview" but was happily surprised that the themes changed instantly so
there was no need for a preview Window as in Windows' Display control
panel. Unfortunately, I had to go in to Details and switch the icons
back to Bluecurve. Icons should not change when changing themes; this
is unintuitive -- normal users do not think of this as part of the
theme. On Windows, you can change the widgets. On Mac OS X, you can
change the widget colors (blue/graphite). (Perhaps themes should just
stick to Bluecurve unless they have their own specially-crafted icon
The rest of her system is normal. Firefox (installed through yum; but
irrelevant, Mozilla provided by the base would have functioned just as
well), Gaim, and OpenOffice.org. Her install consists of Personal
Desktop + Games + Samba + the afforementioned applications installed
through yum/up2date. Her computer is typically running all the time;
she does not appear to turn it off. The nightly yum update is enabled
(she ignored Windows Update alerts, and she ignored the red exclamation
point of rhn-applet-gui.) She uses AOL for email (webmail interface).
(She has commented that people should complain to AOL that they should
make it work on Linux (not write a GTK+ client, of course, but "make it
work" on Linux; an interesting particular in the way non-hackers
understand how software works.))
These have been my observations of my sister's use of Linux, and my
experiences where intervention has been required. I have brought up
some larger issues, and some smaller points which can probably be
addressed without too much effort.
I hope others find this to be helpful and relevant to working with the
desktop environment on Linux and Fedora.
Jonathan Marc Bearak <jonathanbearak(a)yahoo.com>
18 years, 8 months
Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder
by Elliot Lee
This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and
the purpose of each list. You can view this information at
When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose
the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the
right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact
me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question,
and keep other list subscribers happy!
Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users
subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list
reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users
available to help other users with the topic.
The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to <listname>-request(a)redhat.com
(replace <listname> with the desired mailing list name such as
fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject.
fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay
aware of news, subscribe to this list.
fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem
installing or using , this is the list for you.
fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to
discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you.
fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are
interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you.
fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project
fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user
interfaces, artwork, and usability
fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of
fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy
fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project
fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project
fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language
fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language
fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language
fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of
fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and
documentation associated with the Fedora Project
Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br
Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn
Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw
18 years, 8 months
Bluecurve icons derivative works
I would like to distribute an application icon that will fit with the
style of the Bluecurve theme.
To do this I have taken some of the icons from redhat-artwork to use as
This makes my icon a derivate work of the redhat-artwork icons.
Is distributing my derivative work allowed?
18 years, 8 months
installing latest kernel from CD-ROM
by Jose Moreno
i'm new to RED HAT
i'm trying to update my kernel from a CD-ROM
i burned the kernel using Windows XP
mounted the cdrom and could see the file
copied to /tmp
attempted to run the package but get the error " could not open file"
is there a way for me to update the kernel through this method?
18 years, 8 months
Fedora Core2 Freezes on Dell Lattitude LS400
by Jose Moreno
I loaded Fedora Core2 from the ftp.redhat.com site on my dell
it loads up until the Login screen, then once i enter my username and
password, it freezes midway through. I tried KDE and GNOME and they
any ideas why? i'm eager to get started with Linux.
Display is a NeoMagice MagicGraph256AV
it works fine on Windows XP. i hate xp though :-0
18 years, 8 months