Hi, Recently the Workstation working group agreed to match the GNOME apps we install by default in Fedora with upstream GNOME's core apps. We will by default sync our default apps to upstream's, and make exceptions only for exceptional reasons if when proposed on this list. This adds a bit more cement to our status as the best GNOME distribution with minimal divergence from upstream. I worked upstream with designers and release team to move many desirable apps into core, to better match what we're currently shipping in Fedora. I also created a gnome-incubator metamodule upstream, which is where we'll put apps that we want to be core apps by design, but which we recognize are not yet ready to be installed by default in distributions. Currently that is home to bijiben, gnome-boxes, gnome- calendar, gnome-dictionary, gnome-music, and gnome-photos. Here is how we currently diverge from the new upstream recommendations: Apps missing from Fedora: epiphany, gnome-logs Extra apps in Fedora: bijiben, evolution, gnome-boxes, shotwell, rhythmbox I see little value in discussing Epiphany again right now. Let's make an exception for that. I have added Logs in Fedora just now, as I expect that will be uncontroversial and I don't see any value in diverging from upstream here. Bijiben is just not very good yet, and it's not under active development. There's no good reason for us to diverge from upstream here, and I expect it will be uncontroversial, so I've dropped it. I guess Evolution might be controversial; I use it religiously, and many of you probably do too. But the user interface is complex and confusing; users should not be exposed to this by default, barring drastic UI changes that are outside the scope of the Evolution project. Evolution is a great mail client for power users, but I'm confident that the average user will be better off with webmail services; folks who want a desktop client can simply install one, after all. We intend to replace it with GNOME Mail eventually, but nobody has started developing it yet. I propose we drop Evolution, but I have not done so yet, pending further discussion. Boxes has too many serious bugs right now, so it cannot go into gnome- core yet, but we intend it to eventually. Since this is a significant application, I have not yet removed it from our default install, pending further discussion. My main concern is that it would look odd for us to remove such a significant app from the default install, then bring it back in a year or two. On the other hand, users won't notice a thing unless they make a habit of reinstalling Fedora, and it's not good to include apps we can't fully recommend. It's not clear to me what choice is best here. I propose we make temporary exceptions to keep Shotwell and Rhythmbox, until their intended replacements, Photos and Music, move into upstream's GNOME core moduleset. That will very likely happen for Photos for F25. I'm less certain about Music. Michael