1:15 p.m.
Hey,
one change we are planning to make to the desktop spin in F13 is to go
from targeting a cd to targeting a 1g usb stick. That will give us
enough breathing room to include not only OpenOffice, but also some
example content on the spin. We've wanted to do that for a long time,
but the cd size restriction have prohibited that.
The example content is meant to serve several purposes:
- Be informative and/or pleasant
- Allow users to try the included apps
- Showcase content that has been produced with open source apps
- Make the desktop spin more useful, e.g. to ambassadors
Examples that might fit some of these categories are:
- Suitably licensed music or movie trailers (big buck bunny has been
mentioned already)
- Spreadsheets or documents that contain interesting facts about Fedora
or open source
- the 1-page release notes pdf that was debuted for F12
The purpose of this mail is to solicit proposals for content that might
fit into these categories. Please send your proposals to
fedora-desktop-list or just reply.
Thanks!
Matthias
1:51 p.m.
On 11/23/2009 11:15 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Hey,
one change we are planning to make to the desktop spin in F13 is to go
from targeting a cd to targeting a 1g usb stick. That will give us
enough breathing room to include not only OpenOffice, but also some
example content on the spin. We've wanted to do that for a long time,
but the cd size restriction have prohibited that.
The example content is meant to serve several purposes:
- Be informative and/or pleasant
- Allow users to try the included apps
- Showcase content that has been produced with open source apps
- Make the desktop spin more useful, e.g. to ambassadors
Examples that might fit some of these categories are:
- Suitably licensed music or movie trailers (big buck bunny has been
mentioned already)
- Spreadsheets or documents that contain interesting facts about Fedora
or open source
- the 1-page release notes pdf that was debuted for F12
The purpose of this mail is to solicit proposals for content that might
fit into these categories. Please send your proposals to
fedora-desktop-list or just reply.
Thanks!
Matthias
Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD?
Assuming this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away
at shows?
John
1:53 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John Poelstra <poelstra(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD? Assuming
this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away at shows?
Is show media typically CD or is it DVD? Can it be DVD for most
cases, or would that be problematic?
1:50 p.m.
On 11/24/2009 01:23 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John Poelstra
<poelstra(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD? Assuming
> this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away at shows?
Is show media typically CD or is it DVD? Can it be DVD for most
cases, or would that be problematic?
Historically it has been Live CD's mostly. Most cases, I think we can
move to DVD's.
Rahul
1:58 p.m.
On 11/23/2009 11:53 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John
Poelstra<poelstra(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD? Assuming
> this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away at shows?
Is show media typically CD or is it DVD? Can it be DVD for most
cases, or would that be problematic?
Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their existing
system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be giving out USB
keys from a cost perspective.
John
2:09 p.m.
John Poelstra (poelstra(a)redhat.com) said:
Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their
existing system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be
giving out USB keys from a cost perspective.
If you want to give out spinning coasters, the move from giving
out CD-sized ones to DVD-sized ones should be fairly negligible.
Bill
2:36 p.m.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:09:58 -0500, you wrote:
John Poelstra (poelstra(a)redhat.com) said:
> Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
>
> The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
> because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their
> existing system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be
> giving out USB keys from a cost perspective.
If you want to give out spinning coasters, the move from giving
out CD-sized ones to DVD-sized ones should be fairly negligible.
I think the question is will there also be a LiveDVD created (either
from the existing install DVD or from the LiveUSB) that would be
useful for handing out at shows or for people to otherwise try Fedora,
or are the stuck with the choice of an install DVD or USB key?
2:38 p.m.
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 15:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
John Poelstra (poelstra(a)redhat.com) said:
> Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
>
> The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
> because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their
> existing system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be
> giving out USB keys from a cost perspective.
If you want to give out spinning coasters, the move from giving
out CD-sized ones to DVD-sized ones should be fairly negligible.
is this as true in, say, India as it is in North America / Europe?
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
7:12 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:38:19PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 15:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> John Poelstra (poelstra(a)redhat.com) said:
> > Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
> >
> > The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
> > because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their
> > existing system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be
> > giving out USB keys from a cost perspective.
>
> If you want to give out spinning coasters, the move from giving
> out CD-sized ones to DVD-sized ones should be fairly negligible.
is this as true in, say, India as it is in North America / Europe?
Spot and I had the opportunity to ask this of a number of people from
China, India, Japan, and Singapore when we were Down Under a couple of
weeks ago. They unanimously agreed that most of the hardware around
was at least DVD-ROM/CD+-RW compatible. DVD writers are getting
traction. They also agreed bandwidth tended to be more of a problem
than hardware.
So to clarify, if you're talking about having a DVD-sized Live image,
you also need to look into the media production cost difference
between mass-produced CDs and DVDs. The Ambassadors who handle media
production should be able to give some estimates.
Just to make sure John's issue was addressed -- this would still be
Live media, try-before-you-buy ;-), just larger. AIUI a user
shouldn't need to have 1.5 GB of RAM just to load the system even if
it's, say, a 1.4 GB image.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
2:44 p.m.
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 11:58 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
On 11/23/2009 11:53 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John Poelstra<poelstra(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>> Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD? Assuming
>> this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away at shows?
>
> Is show media typically CD or is it DVD? Can it be DVD for most
> cases, or would that be problematic?
Show media has been both LiveCD and DVD.
The LiveCD has always been a nice thing to encourage people to try
because it can be tried without installing or overwriting their existing
system. So to me this is a loss because I doubt we'll be giving out USB
keys from a cost perspective.
There's no intrinsic reason to break writing the live image to a DVD.
You can already write the "live CD" image to a DVD. (And in fact this
is typically a better user experience; DVD drives typically have far
better seek times and read speed since the media is denser.)
A single-layer MiniDVD is about 1.4G, which will hold the 1G live image
target easily. The first google hit I found for Mini-DVD replication
has it at about $2.25/each at a quantity of 300, where they do 700M CDs
for $1.17/each at that quantity. Amusingly they'll do 4.7G DVDs for
$1.75/each at that quantity, so it's clearly nothing to do with material
cost. For the burn-your-own crowd, CDW sells 100-packs of blank 4.7G
DVDs for about $40, and 100-packs of blank CDs for about $30. It's
certainly more expensive, but I'm skeptical that it's prohibitively
expensive.
There _is_ a set of users we're excluding here, which is the set of
users that can only boot from CD and not DVD or USB. I think, at this
point in time, anyone with a machine in that sad category is already
poorly served by the Live CD, for seek time reasons if nothing else.
Besides, that's what the netinst ISO is for.
- ajax
2:09 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 07:53:14PM +0000, Colin Walters wrote:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John Poelstra
<poelstra(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Does this mean that there will no longer be a bootable Live CD? Assuming
> this is the case, wow will this affect the media we give away at shows?
Is show media typically CD or is it DVD? Can it be DVD for most
cases, or would that be problematic?
It's typically the liveCD. The ambassadors are the ones to ask if a liveDVD
would be problematic.
-Toshio
8:48 a.m.
Hi Matthias,
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 14:15 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Hey,
one change we are planning to make to the desktop spin in F13 is to go
from targeting a cd to targeting a 1g usb stick. That will give us
enough breathing room to include not only OpenOffice, but also some
example content on the spin. We've wanted to do that for a long time,
but the cd size restriction have prohibited that.
The example content is meant to serve several purposes:
- Be informative and/or pleasant
- Allow users to try the included apps
So I'm wondering whether template-like content is something we should
include, or do we strictly want examples of content?
E.g., just to illustrate what I mean: we could maybe brainstorm a set of
templates of things a user might like to create with their new Fedora
desktop and build templates for each. Just a quick list of examples off
the top of my head - note I don't have any particular apps in mind here
either:
Printables:
* a to-do list
* calendar
* business letter
* photo album / photos
* mix CD label
* business card
On-Screen Documents:
* slide decks
* simple web page
* photo album web page
* web page banner
* simple video
* animated gif (popular for online forum avatars)
Maybe for each provide a filled-out, polished example and provide a
template alongside it.
But maybe this kind of idea is going a bit too far towards providing
templates rather than just raw content. Probably openoffice.org has some
templates that could be used for this purpose - but it could be a nice
value-add thing for Fedora to include some hand-picked high-quality ones
included out-of-the-box.
How about tutorials?
E.g. we could hand pick the best-of-the-best of openly-licensed
tutorials like these and PDF-ify them maybe with a standard Fedora
template (kind of like we did for the 1 page release notes) and include
them in the Documents directory:
http://inkscapetutorials.wordpress.com/
http://esdev.net/top-10-inkscape-tutorials/
http://gimp-tutorials.net/
http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/
FLOSSmanuals has some great instructional content - the digital
foundations ones are particularly good http://en.flossmanuals.net/ They
were originally produced for graphic design courses using the Adobe
Suite and have been converted to use free software graphics apps
instead. At least a default bookmark to these in Firefox would be good.
- Showcase content that has been produced with open source apps
Besides Big Buck Bunny, maybe Elephant's Dream to this end.
What do you think about including 2S artworks? There's a lot of
beautiful digital paintings on deviantart that were created with Gimp
and/or Inkscape... artists on there are usually quite willing to license
CC and deviantart does have a built-in system to license under CC.
- Make the desktop spin more useful, e.g. to ambassadors
Examples that might fit some of these categories are:
- Suitably licensed music or movie trailers (big buck bunny has been
mentioned already)
How about Sita Sings the Blues? http://sitasingstheblues.com/
I did an 'I am Fedora' video
(http://a28.video2.blip.tv/3020000043336/Mairin-IAmFedora740.ogg) but
its not great. Maybe Colby (cc'ed) can think of some good Fedora videos
he's produced that would be short-ish and easy to include.
Maybe some audiobooks from librivox? Or just load their feed urls so
they're easily downloaded post-install without taking up space on the
disk? I filed this bug earlier but
For music would it be worth putting together a playlist (maybe 5-10
songs) of really high-quality work from Jamendo?
- Spreadsheets or documents that contain interesting facts about
Fedora
or open source
It might be cool to do something with some of the data we've got from
smolt on Fedora usage?
- the 1-page release notes pdf that was debuted for F12
~m
11:06 a.m.
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 14:15 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Hey,
one change we are planning to make to the desktop spin in F13 is to go
from targeting a cd to targeting a 1g usb stick.
Why 1GB? It seemed to me, when discussing this earlier on this list,
that everyone agreed that 2GB made much more sense.
Thanks,
David
5254
days inactive
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desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
12 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Adam Jackson -
Adam Williamson -
Bill Nottingham -
Colin Walters -
David Zeuthen -
Gerald Henriksen -
John Poelstra -
Matthias Clasen -
Máirín Duffy -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram -
Toshio Kuratomi