11:37 a.m.
I was just reading the mails about the Fedora print magazine. There
Paul Frields said that "In the longer term we really do want to move
away from the Install DVD to a Live DVD that has more
relevant applications and content". We didn't had any SIG for creating
Live DVD and Live DVD spin. So I have started the same. The main motive of
the SIG will be to roll out one live DVD per fedora release which will have
all the packages of live cd and other packages as suggested by the
community. For this to be a success, community support is very much
required. Interested contributors please join the SIG at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD . Any kind of suggestions or
pointers are most
welcome.
--
Aditya Patawari
Birla Institute Of Technology, Mesra
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India
7:34 a.m.
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:07:46PM +0530, Aditya Patawari wrote:
I was just reading the mails about the Fedora print magazine.
There
Paul Frields said that "In the longer term we really do want to move
away from the Install DVD to a Live DVD that has more
relevant applications and content". We didn't had any SIG for creating
Live DVD and Live DVD spin. So I have started the same. The main motive of
the SIG will be to roll out one live DVD per fedora release which will
have all the packages of live cd and other packages as suggested by the
community. For this to be a success, community support is very much
required. Interested contributors please join the SIG at
[1]https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD .� Any kind of suggestions
or pointers are most
welcome.
To clarify, what I was talking about was the fact that the
Installation DVD is really just a continuation of what has shipped
since time immemorial in Red Hat Linux many years ago. It doesn't
have any particular target. At the same time, our Live CDs are highly
constrained by a combination of (1) the 700 MB limit, and (2) our
desire -- a worthy one, IMHO -- to keep them usable in as many
languages as possible.
So whenever we talk about media that includes a bunch of applications
that users do really want, but we can't include on a CD-sized medium,
we fall back to the DVD, which loses much of the appeal of the Live
image. I think the Desktop SIG has already been discussing the need
for a larger image due to constantly having to bump out useful
applications to stay under the CD size limit. At the same time, the
Installation DVD does provide a helpful testing bed for Anaconda.
Mainly, I was just interested in the idea of existing SIGs feeling
empowered to produce their Live spins for larger media, rather than
everyone needing more applications having to fall back to the
Installation DVD. I'm not sure what an equally untargeted generic
Live spin really achieves, but at the same time, if there are
contributors interested in producing one, our spin process certainly
permits it.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
7:49 a.m.
Initially I was also thinking of producing a larger image to include more
packages but after reading Colin's view I also thinking that instead of
creating a large image with all pre-installed stuff, a large image with an
internal repository can be created. It will reduce the user's need of
accessing external repository without having a lot of stuff installed which
a new user might find confusing and cluttered. It will leave the basic "try
before use" feature of the live cd will remain as it is.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com>wrote:
To clarify, what I was talking about was the fact that the
Installation DVD is really just a continuation of what has shipped
since time immemorial in Red Hat Linux many years ago. It doesn't
have any particular target. At the same time, our Live CDs are highly
constrained by a combination of (1) the 700 MB limit, and (2) our
desire -- a worthy one, IMHO -- to keep them usable in as many
languages as possible.
So whenever we talk about media that includes a bunch of applications
that users do really want, but we can't include on a CD-sized medium,
we fall back to the DVD, which loses much of the appeal of the Live
image. I think the Desktop SIG has already been discussing the need
for a larger image due to constantly having to bump out useful
applications to stay under the CD size limit. At the same time, the
Installation DVD does provide a helpful testing bed for Anaconda.
Mainly, I was just interested in the idea of existing SIGs feeling
empowered to produce their Live spins for larger media, rather than
everyone needing more applications having to fall back to the
Installation DVD. I'm not sure what an equally untargeted generic
Live spin really achieves, but at the same time, if there are
contributors interested in producing one, our spin process certainly
permits it.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
--
Fedora-desktop-list mailing list
Fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
--
Aditya Patawari
Join Live DVD SIG : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India
11:29 a.m.
Aditya Patawari (aditya(a)adityapatawari.com) said:
I was just reading the mails about the Fedora print magazine. There
Paul Frields said that "In the longer term we really do want to move
away from the Install DVD to a Live DVD that has more
relevant applications and content". We didn't had any SIG for creating
Live DVD and Live DVD spin. So I have started the same. The main motive of
the SIG will be to roll out one live DVD per fedora release which will have
all the packages of live cd and other packages as suggested by the
community. For this to be a success, community support is very much
required. Interested contributors please join the SIG at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD . Any kind of suggestions or
pointers are most
welcome.
How would this be different from each LiveCD group just targeting
a DVD size and changing their spin appropriately?
Bill
12:20 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
How would this be different from each LiveCD group just targeting
a DVD size and changing their spin appropriately?
Actually instead of increasing the size and getting a cluttered install, I
am planning to include an internal repository. After installation end user
will get the normal live cd stuff and an inbuilt repo which can be used to
install packages as per the need. It will reduce the need of internet and
will also increase the package installation speed.
--
Aditya Patawari
Join Live DVD SIG : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India
1:03 p.m.
Aditya Patawari (aditya(a)adityapatawari.com) said:
> How would this be different from each LiveCD group just
targeting
> a DVD size and changing their spin appropriately?
Actually instead of increasing the size and getting a cluttered install, I
am planning to include an internal repository. After installation end user
will get the normal live cd stuff and an inbuilt repo which can be used to
install packages as per the need. It will reduce the need of internet and
will also increase the package installation speed.
... how is that significantly different than what we have now?
Now:
- user downloads DVD iso
- user picks from arbitrary set of software
- additional software can be selected from network
- user installs
New:
- user downloads DVD live iso
- user partitions, has to include space for all other software on DVD (!)
- user installs
- user reboots
- user can pick from arbitary set of software to add on
- additional software can be selected from network
How is this better?
Bill
1:07 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
New:
- user downloads DVD live iso
- user partitions, has to include space for all other software on DVD (!)
- user installs
- user reboots
- user can pick from arbitary set of software to add on
- additional software can be selected from network
Because in the future we will we have a better UI than the current
Add/Remove applications for installing desktop software at least, and
this way Anaconda doesn't need to maintain a package selection UI.
1:08 p.m.
Colin Walters (walters(a)verbum.org) said:
> New:
> - user downloads DVD live iso
> - user partitions, has to include space for all other software on DVD (!)
> - user installs
> - user reboots
> - user can pick from arbitary set of software to add on
> - additional software can be selected from network
Because in the future we will we have a better UI than the current
Add/Remove applications for installing desktop software at least, and
this way Anaconda doesn't need to maintain a package selection UI.
We've been describing that future for a while. In the meantime, having
to actually install uninstalled versions of random software seems
inefficient.
Bill
1:18 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
We've been describing that future for a while. In the meantime, having
to actually install uninstalled versions of random software seems
inefficient.
Well, there are a few other virtues to having a larger image, namely:
* Can use web browser to find out more information about applications
(and in general, use other live tools)
* De-duplicates the install path, allowing us to focus on streamlining
one single path
1:28 p.m.
Colin Walters (walters(a)verbum.org) said:
* De-duplicates the install path, allowing us to focus on
streamlining
one single path
Given the requirements for server installs (kickstart, etc.) I don't know
that you can ever go to live-only (unless you really *shrink* the live
image.)
Bill
1:37 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Colin Walters (walters(a)verbum.org) said:
> * De-duplicates the install path, allowing us to focus on streamlining
> one single path
Given the requirements for server installs (kickstart, etc.) I don't know
that you can ever go to live-only (unless you really *shrink* the live
image.)
I'd imagine that running the "live Anaconda" UI from inside the GDM X
session wouldn't take significantly more resources than the Anaconda
OS after creating an image that doesn't have games, etc.
1:24 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com>wrote:
New:
- user downloads DVD live iso
- user partitions, has to include space for all other software on DVD (!)
- user installs
- user reboots
- user can pick from arbitary set of software to add on
- additional software can be selected from network
How is this better?
I agree that it will take up more space but its a price which most of us
will be
ready to pay. Bad Internet connection is more common than smaller
hard disks. Also if someone is concern about the disk space so much than
he'll be using live cd than dvd. Primarily Live DVD is to help those who do
not have internet access or a bad connection.
--
Aditya Patawari
Join Live DVD SIG : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India
1:03 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Aditya Patawari
<aditya(a)adityapatawari.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> How would this be different from each LiveCD group just targeting
> a DVD size and changing their spin appropriately?
Actually instead of increasing the size and getting a cluttered install, I
am planning to include an internal repository. After installation end user
will get the normal live cd stuff and an inbuilt repo which can be used to
install packages as per the need. It will reduce the need of internet and
will also increase the package installation speed.
We should not make the install more complicated buy adding extra
questions "do you want to install foo, bar and baz?"
We should just move away from a CD where it makes sense, a spin
targeted for slower / older hardware can be CD size limited, but that
should not mean that we should live with the artificial CD limit
forever.
Also using a DVD does not necessary mean that we must fill a full DL
disk, but it will allow us to move above the 700MB limit where it
makes sense (adding stuff like OO.org or translations for the KDE spin
etc.)
But well I doubt that we will do this anytime soon, even though it
makes a lot of sense IMHO.
1:19 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:33 PM, drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
We should not make the install more complicated buy adding extra
questions "do you want to install foo, bar and baz?"
That is the whole point. It won't ask. It's like a local repository. If you
need a package just use the Add/Remove UI or yum.
--
Aditya Patawari
Join Live DVD SIG : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/LiveDVD
http://blog.adityapatawari.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adimania
India
1:29 p.m.
Aditya Patawari (aditya(a)adityapatawari.com) said:
> We should not make the install more complicated buy adding
extra
> questions "do you want to install foo, bar and baz?"
That is the whole point. It won't ask. It's like a local repository. If you
need a package just use the Add/Remove UI or yum.
Actually... how does this save you bandwidth in the long run if it's
obsolete 3 weeks after release (as many packages are.)
Bill
1:33 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Aditya Patawari (aditya(a)adityapatawari.com) said:
> > We should not make the install more complicated buy adding extra
> > questions "do you want to install foo, bar and baz?"
>
> That is the whole point. It won't ask. It's like a local repository. If you
> need a package just use the Add/Remove UI or yum.
Actually... how does this save you bandwidth in the long run if it's
obsolete 3 weeks after release (as many packages are.)
deltarpms
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days inactive
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desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
15 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Aditya Patawari -
Bill Nottingham -
Colin Walters -
drago01 -
Paul W. Frields