On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:23 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 2.7.2020 01:06, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:03 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> On 1.7.2020 23:28, Neal Gompa wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 7:19 PM Björn Persson <Bjorn(a)xn--rombobjrn-67a.se>
wrote:
>>>> Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
>>>>> More user friendly than Grub ( has lilo like interface easier to
change
>>>>> kernel entry, which goes nicely with the default editor change )
>>>> This made me go "What?!". I used Lilo back in the day. Its
user
>>>> interface was nothing but a prompt. You had to know what to type or
>>>> you'd be stuck.
>>>>
>>>> Information for others like me who haven't seen Lilo since Grub
came
>>>> along: Apparently development of Lilo continued until just five years
>>>> ago, and it grew a menu at some point. I guess that menu is the image
>>>> of user-friendliness that Johann was trying to invoke.
>>>>
>>> If I ever wanted to switch to another boot manager, I'd seriously like
>>> us to consider rEFInd:
https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
>>>
>>> It's a very nice boot manager that looks good and doesn't suck. And
>>> purportedly is somewhat (if not fully) compatible with bls.
>>>
>>> sd-boot is too barebones and unfriendly to use, which makes sense
>>> since it was designed for non-interactive machines and not humans to
>>> use.
>> If there is this general feel that sd-boots configuration syntax is much
>> harder to read and the ability of not having to run additional command
>> once the file has been edited or the ability to be able to easily
>> maintain and manage multiple kernels or multiple operating systems due
>> those being a drop-in configuration text files, is considered being too
>> bare bone and *less* user-friendly than grub, then obviously me creating
>> a change proposal based on what Javier suggested along with other
>> cleanups to provide as best user experience as can be had with sd-boot
>> would be doing the distribution a great disservice would it not?
>>
> Oh, I don't care about the configuration syntax. That part would be
> the same across grub, refind, and sd-boot anyway.
>
> The user-interactive portion of sd-boot is *awful*. I know our GRUB
> looks ugly by default these days too, but it doesn't have to be, and
> most distros actually do make it look semi-decent.
>
> But alas, nobody cares about making that part look nice, because they
> hope people don't have to go there at all. But even Windows makes
> their boot manager not look ugly and relatively easy to navigate. And
> obviously Apple has done this forever with macOS.
>
> I honestly don't get why everyone is okay with butt-ugly and user-unfriendly
UX.
Because the end user should never find himself in the boot manager to
begin with that's why no boot manager invest any time in being "pretty".
The end user should find himself ending up in some form of shiny nice
user friendly rescue environment that helps him troubleshoot his problem
would you agree?
I would, except, we can't have that either, because nobody cares to
make that either.
In the Windows and macOS world, these two things are paramount and
they're combined with a more solid boot manager experience. We have
none of that on the Linux side because all the incentives are wrong in
the Linux world: we're driven exclusively by people who know what
they're doing and don't like change.
We have less of this problem in Fedora, but all the *money* in Linux
is pushed for *not changing*, so that makes life very difficult. The
server world uses automation and APIs as a substitute for making good
user experiences. And it shows.
That's why we get more dumb services further stratifying the landscape
of interfaces needed to do something meaningful rather than actually
*changing* things to be better.
That's why GUI tools keep getting retired for complex web applications.
That's why we can't have nice things. Because nobody with power cares enough.
--
真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!