On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 04:04:50PM -0500, Ty Young wrote:

Anyway, I'm just asking that Fedora not repeat what Debian did. While 
I find it to be a bit paranoid, I understand the concerns regarding 
someone sneaking in malware into pre-build binaries. I'm just asking 
Fedora not package the software at all in that case, or any software 
that depends on that software if possible. People who want to support 
Linux by writing software shouldn't be bothered with bug reports from 
issues they never created to begin with.

"Fedora" doesn't package software; individuals do.  Those individuals 
are free to package whatever they like, and Fedora will distribute those 
packages if they meet the well-established packaging criteria.

Whichever you choose. Large projects like Gnome and Fedora refer to themselves as one large organization one minute and then as individuals the next. It reminds me of how everyone says "Linux" is less resource hungry then Windows but "Linux" is just a kernel, as those same people will often say in "Linux"'s defense.

and it's those "well-established" packaging criteria are the reason people stopped packaging Java software for Fedora, according to many emails.

Those packagers, and Fedora, are "supporting Linux".

The amount of disdain and disrespect for third-party, and/or independent software developers and/or creators who don't conform to your clubhouse rules is palpable.

Meanwhile, for every distribution-created "bug" there are ten thousand 
that created by the upstream authors.  Most upstreams are mature enough 
to recognize this, and consider distribution-level packaging (and 
front-line user support) efforts to be, on the whole, a net gain.

Nonsense spewing with no proof.

The Debian Xscreensaver fiasco is enough proof that contradicts your ridiculous claims and there are plenty more, including:

* Game developers largely refuse to support Linux, and the some of the few that have have or are currently pulling support citing fragmentation(support) issues.

* Hardware support for AMD GPUs is all over the place and even if technically supported, can be too buggy to use. This is largely because kernel/mesa versions are all over the place.

* Some software packaged even in large Linux distros like Ubuntu as part of their enabled-by-default repos don't even launch. Codeblocks in around 16.04, IIRC, didn't even launch once you install it. You had to use their privately hosted repo to install a newer version.

* You often need to install third-party repos to get up-to-date software since packages are way too slow, or the distros just choose to use very old software(Debian).

* Bugs fixed in newer versions of Gnome shell aren't backported to older versions. It looks like they have extended support, but I doubt it's for the same amount of time Ubuntu supports an LTS. Even if it did, only newer Gnome shell versions are supported for that long. 18.04 probably has shell bugs right now that are fixed in newer Gnome versions.

* There have been security bugs found in packaged software like Grub that have existed in years despite being one of the most widely packaged and used software on Linux.

* Linux distros do not resolve dependancy conflicts correctly. Ubuntu last time I checked still requires you manually install 32-bit libs in order to launch Steam instead of doing that for the user.

* Linux distro GUI package managers are generally poorly designed and buggy. That screenshot of Fedora's cinnamon spin's packager manager GUI I posted here showed that plenty. Other distros aren't much better. Manjaro/Arch Linux's "Pamac" GUI had a bug where it sees itself as a running package manager instance and refused to upgrade or install software on a failed AUR software build/install.

* Linux distros "taint" software they package and install by, for example, enabling shell extensions in Gnome by default. This more likely than not results in false bug reports. Fedora even does this!

I could literally go on and on. The "my-shit-don't-stink" attitude is so terrible it's borderline sad.

 - Solomon

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