3:46 p.m.
Hi all,,
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a
work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop
(whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them on the
wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check & gives
feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, & you
should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
--
Regards,,
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad
@meGenius
4:54 p.m.
On 08/21/2010 02:16 AM, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
Hi all,,
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a
work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop
(whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them on the
wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check & gives
feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, & you
should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This
is problematic for two reasons:
a) Google Wave is dead
b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a)
Rahul
5:20 p.m.
You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This
is problematic for two reasons:
a) Google Wave is dead
b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a)
Rahul
a) you're a troll
b) you're a troll
--
devel mailing list
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
5:26 p.m.
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On 8/20/10 3:20 PM, Brandon Lozza wrote:
>
>
>
> You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This
> is problematic for two reasons:
>
> a) Google Wave is dead
> b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a)
>
> Rahul
>
a) you're a troll
b) you're a troll
He's not actually a troll, and that was not very excellent. Google Wave
has indeed been shut down.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html
- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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6:08 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 03:26:24PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
On 8/20/10 3:20 PM, Brandon Lozza wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This
>> is problematic for two reasons:
>>
>> a) Google Wave is dead
>> b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a)
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>
> a) you're a troll
> b) you're a troll
>
>
He's not actually a troll, and that was not very excellent. Google Wave
has indeed been shut down.
The link on the wiki page is still working and
it should until the end of the year:
| We don’t plan to continue developing Wave as a standalone product, but we will
^^^^^^^
| maintain the site at least through the end of the year and extend the technology
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| for use in other Google projects.
Nevertheless, imho it should not be used to develop infrastructure for Fedora,
because people involved in Fedora might not want to use it, because it is not
FOSS.
Regards
Till
7:44 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name> wrote:
Nevertheless, imho it should not be used to develop infrastructure
for Fedora,
because people involved in Fedora might not want to use it, because it is not
FOSS.
The less-than-clear-future roadmap for Wave as a service brings home
exactly the reason why relying on external services has additional
risk. I would hate to ask people to start relying on an external
service as an official offering and watch the service shutter with no
way to reimplement an internal replacement implementation of the
service as a fallback.
-jef
3:52 a.m.
dead
It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on
openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can
participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid
for it ;-)
Gerard
--
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad
1:52 p.m.
2010/8/29 Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org>
> dead
It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on
openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can
participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid
for it ;-)
Gerard
--
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad
--
devel mailing list
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a
Gmail can use it
2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for
download files!! we're here like
religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's just a
thing without sense...
(I hate Fanaticism)
3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in
http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one?
NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a "Fedora Solution" an
applied search engine for the community. and I can
add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it,
it's more "opensource" that the one that we're already using...
--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick(a)googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)
PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6
2:13 p.m.
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote:
2010/8/29 Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org>
> dead
It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on
openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can
participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid
for it ;-)
Gerard
--
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad
--
devel mailing list
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a Gmail can
use it
2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for download
files!! we're here like
religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's just a
thing without sense...
(I hate Fanaticism)
3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do
you have the code for this one?
NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a "Fedora Solution" an
applied search engine for the community. and I can
add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it, it's more
"opensource" that the one that we're already using...
Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is
now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it
had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to
replace the start page with something else.
-Mike
2:31 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines (was: Fedora Notifications System.)
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:13 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote:
> 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in http://start.fedoraproject.org/
¿Do you have the code for this one?
> NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a "Fedora Solution" an
applied search engine for the community. and I can
> add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it, it's
more "opensource" that the one that we're already using...
>
Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is
now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it
had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to
replace the start page with something else.
Interesting. I can understand not wanting to promote a proprietary
search engine on the Fedora start page, but if the idea is that Fedora
users and contributors should be able to avoid using them altogether, I
think that's currently pretty unrealistic. People have questions all
the time, and being able to search the whole web for an answer at once
is great. Without a web search, one has to do a separate search of each
data source (wiki, bug database, mailing lists) of each relevant
project, assuming those search features even exist and that it is
possible to identify all the relevant projects in advance (harder when
searching for work to reuse).
--
Matt
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines (was: Fedora Notifications System.)
2010/8/29 Matt McCutchen <matt(a)mattmccutchen.net>
On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:13 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote:
> > 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in
http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one?
> > NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a "Fedora
Solution" an
applied search engine for the community. and I can
> > add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify
it, it's more "opensource" that the one that we're already using...
> >
>
> Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is
> now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it
> had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to
> replace the start page with something else.
Interesting. I can understand not wanting to promote a proprietary
search engine on the Fedora start page, but if the idea is that Fedora
users and contributors should be able to avoid using them altogether, I
think that's currently pretty unrealistic. People have questions all
the time, and being able to search the whole web for an answer at once
is great. Without a web search, one has to do a separate search of each
data source (wiki, bug database, mailing lists) of each relevant
project, assuming those search features even exist and that it is
possible to identify all the relevant projects in advance (harder when
searching for work to reuse).
--
Matt
--
devel mailing list
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN... With "Fedora's engine" I'm giving you the
chance of having something more "opensource" and also more specific and
useful for the fedora users who want to search things all around the web.
--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick(a)googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)
PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6
4:16 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On 08/30/2010 01:01 AM, Matt McCutchen wrote:
Interesting. I can understand not wanting to promote a proprietary
search engine on the Fedora start page, but if the idea is that Fedora
users and contributors should be able to avoid using them altogether, I
think that's currently pretty unrealistic.
I don't think there is any expectation for users. This is just a Fedora
infrastructure policy so that we don't end up relying on things that we
can't build upon or fork if necessary.
Rahul
7:29 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 02:46 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 08/30/2010 01:01 AM, Matt McCutchen wrote:
>
> Interesting. I can understand not wanting to promote a proprietary
> search engine on the Fedora start page, but if the idea is that Fedora
> users and contributors should be able to avoid using them altogether, I
> think that's currently pretty unrealistic.
I don't think there is any expectation for users. This is just a Fedora
infrastructure policy so that we don't end up relying on things that we
can't build upon or fork if necessary.
So why would the policy apply to the search box on
http://start.fedoraproject.org , which is just meant for users and is
not really a piece of infrastructure?
--
Matt
7:52 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Matt McCutchen <matt(a)mattmccutchen.net>wrote:
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 02:46 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 08/30/2010 01:01 AM, Matt McCutchen wrote:
> >
> > Interesting. I can understand not wanting to promote a proprietary
> > search engine on the Fedora start page, but if the idea is that Fedora
> > users and contributors should be able to avoid using them altogether, I
> > think that's currently pretty unrealistic.
>
> I don't think there is any expectation for users. This is just a Fedora
> infrastructure policy so that we don't end up relying on things that we
> can't build upon or fork if necessary.
So why would the policy apply to the search box on
http://start.fedoraproject.org , which is just meant for users and is
not really a piece of infrastructure?
--
Matt
Because some people are rather overzealous about stuff like that?
8:05 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On 08/30/2010 01:52 AM, Conan Kudo (ニール・ゴンパ) wrote:
So why would the policy apply to the search box on
http://start.fedoraproject.org , which is just meant for users and is
not really a piece of infrastructure?
--
Matt
Because some people are rather overzealous about stuff like that?
Why should we use a search engine in "start.fedoraproject.org", we can
just put a nice page with useful information like: how users get help,
notification, etc ...;
BTW firefox has search "built-in" (in the top right corner), Epiphany
too (address bar can be used as search box), I don't know about Konqueror.
Best regards.
--
Athmane Madjoudj
12:52 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 02:05 +0100, Athmane Madjoudj wrote:
On 08/30/2010 01:52 AM, Conan Kudo (ニール・ゴンパ) wrote:
>
> So why would the policy apply to the search box on
> http://start.fedoraproject.org , which is just meant for users and is
> not really a piece of infrastructure?
>
> --
> Matt
>
>
> Because some people are rather overzealous about stuff like that?
>
Why should we use a search engine in "start.fedoraproject.org", we can
just put a nice page with useful information like: how users get help,
notification, etc ...;
BTW firefox has search "built-in" (in the top right corner), Epiphany
too (address bar can be used as search box), I don't know about Konqueror.
Yeah, there really doesn't seem any particular reason for the search box
to be there, unless Google was paying us for it to be there or
something.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
7:19 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:52:04PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
Yeah, there really doesn't seem any particular reason for the
search box
to be there, unless Google was paying us for it to be there or
something.
Fedora gets to build and ship a slightly-modified version of Firefox while
retaining the Firefox name due to a distribution partner agreement with
Mozilla. Mozilla gets their money from Google. I don't think we *can* make
it something else -- it's part of the price we are paying in order to use
the non-Free name.
See: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_Rebranding:Worksheet#Start_page
--
Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)mattdm.org>
Senior Systems Architect -- Instructional & Research Computing Services
Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences
7:39 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:19 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
Fedora gets to build and ship a slightly-modified version of Firefox
while
retaining the Firefox name due to a distribution partner agreement with
Mozilla. Mozilla gets their money from Google. I don't think we *can* make
it something else -- it's part of the price we are paying in order to use
the non-Free name.
See: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_Rebranding:Worksheet#Start_page
Good catch. More fallout of the Mozilla trademarks... (Am I starting
to sound like Kevin?)
--
Matt
10:27 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:39 -0400, Matt McCutchen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:19 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Fedora gets to build and ship a slightly-modified version of Firefox while
> retaining the Firefox name due to a distribution partner agreement with
> Mozilla. Mozilla gets their money from Google. I don't think we *can* make
> it something else -- it's part of the price we are paying in order to use
> the non-Free name.
>
> See: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_Rebranding:Worksheet#Start_page
Good catch. More fallout of the Mozilla trademarks... (Am I starting
to sound like Kevin?)
It doesn't seem to be an unavoidable requirement, it says:
"If you proposed Start/Home Page is not similar to the existing Firefox
Start Page, please be prepared to provide a rationale for the change,
and how it would benefit the end-user. "
I think we could manage such a rationale.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
10:35 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 08:27:59AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
It doesn't seem to be an unavoidable requirement, it says:
"If you proposed Start/Home Page is not similar to the existing Firefox
Start Page, please be prepared to provide a rationale for the change,
and how it would benefit the end-user. "
I think we could manage such a rationale.
It's worth a shot. The results would be instructive either way.
--
Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)mattdm.org>
Senior Systems Architect -- Instructional & Research Computing Services
Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences
3:59 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:27 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
It doesn't seem to be an unavoidable requirement, it says:
"If you proposed Start/Home Page is not similar to the existing Firefox
Start Page, please be prepared to provide a rationale for the change,
and how it would benefit the end-user. "
I think we could manage such a rationale.
We can definitely make a rationale for having a bunch of Fedora
resources on the start page, but our rationale for omitting a Google
search box, "it's redundant and promotes a proprietary service", is not
a line of reasoning I would expect Mozilla to accept. Then again, they
may calculate that they are better off compromising on this issue in
order to keep Fedora using their trademarks.
--
Matt
4:09 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 16:59 -0400, Matt McCutchen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:27 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> It doesn't seem to be an unavoidable requirement, it says:
>
> "If you proposed Start/Home Page is not similar to the existing Firefox
> Start Page, please be prepared to provide a rationale for the change,
> and how it would benefit the end-user. "
>
> I think we could manage such a rationale.
We can definitely make a rationale for having a bunch of Fedora
resources on the start page, but our rationale for omitting a Google
search box, "it's redundant and promotes a proprietary service", is not
a line of reasoning I would expect Mozilla to accept. Then again, they
may calculate that they are better off compromising on this issue in
order to keep Fedora using their trademarks.
'It's redundant' seems fairly reasonable to me. IIRC, the presence of a
search box on the start page is a hangover from when there *wasn't* one
in the browser chrome by default.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
4:20 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 4:59:27 PM, Matt wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 08:27 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> It doesn't seem to be an unavoidable requirement, it says:
>
> "If you proposed Start/Home Page is not similar to the existing Firefox
> Start Page, please be prepared to provide a rationale for the change,
> and how it would benefit the end-user. "
>
> I think we could manage such a rationale.
We can definitely make a rationale for having a bunch of Fedora
resources on the start page, but our rationale for omitting a Google
search box, "it's redundant and promotes a proprietary service", is not
a line of reasoning I would expect Mozilla to accept. Then again, they
may calculate that they are better off compromising on this issue in
order to keep Fedora using their trademarks.
--
Matt
Personally, I _DO_ want to have something close to the standard Google
search pages as my home page. On my XP systems, I use the standard
Mozilla start page.
Put too much crap on there (and yes, if I do not want to look for a
Fedora resource, too much additional information WILL fit that
classification), and I will change the Fedora start page to either the
standard Mozilla page or just www.google.ca with just a few
keystrokes. At that point, you have lost me as an audience, unless I
specifically decide to use the handy Fedora bookmarks provided.
Shocking? No. I want to use my computer, and most of the time I bring
up a browser session to do searches, or use a bookmark on my toolbar.
Stupid UI "innovations" like hiding my toolbar in the FF 4 beta are
quickly reverted to the way _I_ want my browser.
Please do not ignore that the browser is there for the user to use,
not for Fedora to stream information in spite of the user's wishes.
This is Linux, not some Microsoft (or Apple) "we know what is best for
you" system.
Al
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 17:20:23 -0400,
Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
Please do not ignore that the browser is there for the user to use,
not for Fedora to stream information in spite of the user's wishes.
Nor for Mozilla to track its users. There shouldn't be a start page at
all as it opens a connection back to the start page server before you
(easily) have a chance to disable it. It is especially annoying that
that after updates you still get some Mozilla update page (that at
fisrt glance appears to be from a remote server, though maybe there is
some trickery going on) even though the start page is disabled.
I would think respecting the privacy of our users would be a good reason
for having no start page the default.
4:46 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 16:30 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 17:20:23 -0400,
Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Please do not ignore that the browser is there for the user to use,
> not for Fedora to stream information in spite of the user's wishes.
Nor for Mozilla to track its users. There shouldn't be a start page at
all as it opens a connection back to the start page server before you
(easily) have a chance to disable it. It is especially annoying that
that after updates you still get some Mozilla update page (that at
fisrt glance appears to be from a remote server, though maybe there is
some trickery going on) even though the start page is disabled.
The update page is remote. If you want to disable it, set
"startup.homepage_override_url" to the empty string. There is also
"startup.homepage_welcome_url" for the first run of the browser.
I'm not commenting on what the default should be.
--
Matt
4:51 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 17:46:53 -0400,
Matt McCutchen <matt(a)mattmccutchen.net> wrote:
The update page is remote. If you want to disable it, set
"startup.homepage_override_url" to the empty string. There is also
"startup.homepage_welcome_url" for the first run of the browser.
Thanks!
7:23 a.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno(a)wolff.to> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 17:20:23 -0400,
Al Dunsmuir <al.dunsmuir(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Please do not ignore that the browser is there for the user to use,
> not for Fedora to stream information in spite of the user's wishes.
Nor for Mozilla to track its users. There shouldn't be a start page at
all as it opens a connection back to the start page server before you
(easily) have a chance to disable it. It is especially annoying that
that after updates you still get some Mozilla update page (that at
fisrt glance appears to be from a remote server, though maybe there is
some trickery going on) even though the start page is disabled.
I would think respecting the privacy of our users would be a good reason
for having no start page the default.
I actually don't use any start page and haven't done so for years.
6:34 p.m.
New subject: Proprietary search engines
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 17:20 -0400, Al Dunsmuir wrote:
Please do not ignore that the browser is there for the user to
use,
not for Fedora to stream information in spite of the user's wishes.
This is Linux, not some Microsoft (or Apple) "we know what is best for
you" system.
Al
I couldn't have summed it up better myself.
That's exactly right. The browser is there for the user sitting at his
desk and staring at the screen. The user.
And Fedora considering forcing and flooding the home page with their own
informational crap, 90% of it probably useless, makes us just as bad as
Google. Don't you think it's kind of hypocritical?
I can see the many valid points that have been made with this
discussion, but to me it seems a bit tacky to even be discussing the
issue to this degree.
And I revert from using the term "issue" because I sincerely don't
believe there is one.
I think many here are forgetting that Google is our friend. And Google
Inc. as a company not only support free and open source software but
they are also part of that very community and have done their fair share
for the FOSS community over the years.
And when you think about it, sure Google Search is proprietary code and
all, but it's pretty amazing what Google let you do with their tools and
apps, all for free! I'm sure an exception can be made for such a small
thing. Google Inc. seems to be treated as an enemy of FOSS here, but
they're not. And I think it's disgraceful that's how you're all painting
a unsubstantiated target on them.
My solution to a problem that never was; amend the policy guidelines and
move on to some more serious issues.
Regards
--
Chris Jones <chrisjones(a)comcen.com.au>
3:11 p.m.
2010/8/29 Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com>
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote:
>
>
> 2010/8/29 Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org>
> > dead
>
> It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place
on
> openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can
> participate instead of these few with wave account or those who
paid
> for it ;-)
>
> Gerard
>
> --
> Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
> Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>
>
> 1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a
Gmail can use it
>
> 2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for
download files!! we're here like
> religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's
just a thing without sense...
> (I hate Fanaticism)
>
> 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in
http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one?
> NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a "Fedora Solution"
an
applied search engine for the community. and I can
> add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify
it, it's more "opensource" that the one that we're already using...
>
Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is
now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it
had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to
replace the start page with something else.
-Mike
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AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN... With "Fedora's engine" I'm giving you the
chance of having something more "opensource" and also more specific and
useful for the fedora users who want to search things all around the web.
--
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6:10 a.m.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com> wrote:
You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave.
This is problematic for two reasons:
a) Google Wave is dead
b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a)
Rahul
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can you forget that there's a link for googlewave discussion in that page??
in fact, i don't care where the discussion is being done. however, if
there's anybody who have a googlewave account it would be nice to talk with
him (btw, check the wiki page history to know who added that link).
i was talking about a Fedora Notifications System, not a googlewave
discussion.
& after a half a day, i didn't get any feedbacks.
again, if you have any idea to improve the application please post it, &
if you found anything to improve how the program works please post it.
--
Regards,,
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad
@meGenius
1:19 p.m.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad <
abduljawad.mahmoud(a)gmail.com> wrote:
can you forget that there's a link for googlewave discussion in that page??
in fact, i don't care where the discussion is being done. however, if
there's anybody who have a googlewave account it would be nice to talk with
him (btw, check the wiki page history to know who added that link).
i was talking about a Fedora Notifications System, not a googlewave
discussion.
& after a half a day, i didn't get any feedbacks.
again, if you have any idea to improve the application please post it, &
if you found anything to improve how the program works please post it.
--
Regards,,
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad
@meGenius
hey people,,
without help i'll not be able to continue.
please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements &
give feedbacks.
--
Regards,,
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad
@meGenius
2:36 p.m.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:19:53PM +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
without help i'll not be able to continue.
please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements &
give feedbacks.
Maybe you get more feedback if you make it a F15 feature:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy
Also you might get more feedback from potential users, e.g. if you ask on the
fedora user list or in the fedora forum. Another way might be to finalize it so
that it can be packaged and installed. Then people can install it and use it.
I am not part of the target audience of the application, therefore I cannot tell
you much about it. But please do not rely on a global writeable file.
Regards
Till
3:26 p.m.
2010/8/22 Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name>
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:19:53PM +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
> without help i'll not be able to continue.
> please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements &
> give feedbacks.
Maybe you get more feedback if you make it a F15 feature:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy
Also you might get more feedback from potential users, e.g. if you ask on
the
fedora user list or in the fedora forum. Another way might be to finalize
it so
that it can be packaged and installed. Then people can install it and use
it.
I am not part of the target audience of the application, therefore I cannot
tell
you much about it. But please do not rely on a global writeable file.
Regards
Till
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1) I was the one who put a google wave link in the wiki, I tought it might
be a good way of comunication because anyone with a Gmail account can acess
to a wave and use it. If someone do not have a Gmail account he/she simply
can use the IRC, can contact anyone that's helping via their wiki's and also
can use this mailing list. I do not see any problem there.
2) I think the final goal of this is to have an app that could be packaged
and used in fedora 15 or a future release as till said, but we're just
starting... let time be time :)
I'm here for anything you need.
P.S. I wrote an article for the Fedora-LATAM magazine about this project.
Maybe with that we can broadcast wider and get some more help. The magazine
is going to be released on september 5th.
--
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4:03 p.m.
1) I was the one who put a google wave link in the wiki, I tought it might
be a good way of comunication because anyone with a Gmail account can acess
to a wave and use it. If someone do not have a Gmail account he/she simply
can use the IRC, can contact anyone that's helping via their wiki's and also
can use this mailing list. I do not see any problem there.
You might not see a problem but there are people here who have an irrational
fear of Google, yet use stuff that could be considered more evil.
7:41 p.m.
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:46:43 +0400
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad <abduljawad.mahmoud(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,,
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list
about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the
fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them
on the wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check &
gives feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, &
you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
It doesn't seem to output anything here:
kevin@ohm ~/git/fns (git)-[master] % python fns.py
[]
Might include a README file as to what it needed and what output you
expect?
I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the best
answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few
seconds later it goes away and they miss it.
Perhaps something that puts itself in the system tray and lets them
click on it at their leisure?
kevin
1:19 a.m.
Kevin Fenzi wrote:
I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the
best
answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few
seconds later it goes away and they miss it.
That's why the notification should not time out unless/until the user clicks
it away!
In KDE, the old-style notifications just stay on the screen until clicked
away, the new-style Plasma notifications (which are the default) retract
(after some timeout) to an (i) button in the systray, which will only move
to the hidden part of the systray if the notifications in it are clicked
away by the user.
Perhaps something that puts itself in the system tray and lets them
click on it at their leisure?
Well, see above, the notification system should do that. :-p
Kevin Kofler
3:10 a.m.
On Monday, August 23, 2010 08:19:13 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the best
> answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few
> seconds later it goes away and they miss it.
That's why the notification should not time out unless/until the user
clicks it away!
disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer alone
for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)?
You'll get tons of "User XY has changed status to: blah blah"
or even when you have opened 2+ chat windows (so there are some without
focus), you'll get tons of 'User XY is typing' and 'User XY send new
message:
Blah blah'
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=244589
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=244931
In KDE, the old-style notifications just stay on the screen until clicked
away, the new-style Plasma notifications (which are the default) retract
(after some timeout) to an (i) button in the systray, which will only move
to the hidden part of the systray if the notifications in it are clicked
away by the user.
does not work for all usecases, sometimes it's pain in the ass
2:11 p.m.
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your
computer
alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)?
You'll get tons of "User XY has changed status to: blah blah"
Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non-
exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should
disable it by default in kde-settings?
Kevin Kofler
7:48 p.m.
2010/8/24 Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at>
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer
> alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)?
>
> You'll get tons of "User XY has changed status to: blah blah"
Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non-
exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we
should
disable it by default in kde-settings?
Kevin Kofler
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Hey people! I have an advance for you, it's somewhat interesting... We're
close to have what we're looking for... I'll share a video soon... :D
--
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8:05 p.m.
2010/8/24 Manuel Escudero <Jmlevick(a)gmail.com>
2010/8/24 Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at>
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> > disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer
> > alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)?
> >
> > You'll get tons of "User XY has changed status to: blah blah"
>
> Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non-
> exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we
> should
> disable it by default in kde-settings?
>
> Kevin Kofler
>
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
Hey people! I have an advance for you, it's somewhat interesting... We're
close to have what we're looking for... I'll share a video soon... :D
--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick(a)googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)
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Well, now I have free time, let's see... I've been investigating and
there's
a Plasma Widget called "RSSNOW", That's for KDE...
and For Gnome and derivates, there's a "Feed Reader" Screenlet... We also
have a "Fedora Search Engine"
So I was thinking in something like this:
http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuN/
I dont' know if it's possible to tweak the code of these apps, Or we can use
Google Gadgets as a Base, we build a Feed Parser that let the user suscribe
to a fedora Feed (Like planet's one or the twitter/facebook ones or
something else) so the users can select what kind of news they wanna recieve
and everytime there's a new
update the parser pop out and send a visual notification to the user.
Now, this is the Fedora search engine:
http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuP/
I was wondering if it's possible to integrate a search box into hermes that
uses that engine as a base...
I wanted to share a video of the "basic idea" but these pictures are enough
:)
--
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8:51 p.m.
On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 20:05 -0500, Manuel Escudero wrote:
Now, this is the Fedora search engine:
http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuP/
I was wondering if it's possible to integrate a search box into hermes
that uses that engine as a base...
The start.fedoraproject.org search engine is nothing but a Google search
box. AFAIK, there have been discussions on the advisory-board list that
"something" should be done with it, either make it to redirect to
fedoraproject.org or something else.
--
Mika Kuusela
wilmore @ #fedora-qa
9:11 p.m.
2010/8/25 Mika Kuusela <mku(a)lists.mail.kapsi.fi>
On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 20:05 -0500, Manuel Escudero wrote:
> Now, this is the Fedora search engine:
>
>
> http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuP/
>
>
> I was wondering if it's possible to integrate a search box into hermes
> that uses that engine as a base...
The start.fedoraproject.org search engine is nothing but a Google search
box. AFAIK, there have been discussions on the advisory-board list that
"something" should be done with it, either make it to redirect to
fedoraproject.org or something else.
--
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wilmore @ #fedora-qa
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@Mika: Thank's for the info, I've got another idea ;)
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9:48 p.m.
Manuel Escudero wrote:
I dont' know if it's possible to tweak the code of these
apps, Or we can
use Google Gadgets as a Base,
Please don't rely on Google stuff. The native RSS plasmoid is just fine.
There's also Akregator, which is a regular KDE app to browse RSS feeds. We
don't really need to tweak their code, we just need to set them to the right
feed. For the plasmoid, this can be done with Plasma scripting. Akregator
takes command-line arguments.
Kevin Kofler
3:25 a.m.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2010 21:11:56 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer
> alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)?
>
> You'll get tons of "User XY has changed status to: blah blah"
Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non-
exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we
should disable it by default in kde-settings?
afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many other
apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time. You can check it in
system settings->notifications.
I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or where/how do
you think these notifications should be displayed?
IMHO kde notifications miss at least timeout settings for notifications, because
some notifications should be permanent (closed by user), some of them should
"die" after some time and some of them should be obsoleted (done by
application sending the notification) - for example kopete - there's deffinitely
no need to have both "9:35:04 User Xyz is typing" and "9:35:08 User Xyz
send
new message:...." notifications
4:13 a.m.
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type
of non-
> exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we
> should disable it by default in kde-settings?
afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many
other apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time.
The problem is not that notifications are enabled by default (of course they
are), but what kind of notifications are enabled. The ones Kopete issues
don't make sense.
You can check it in system settings->notifications.
I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or where/how
do you think these notifications should be displayed?
Not at all. A change in online status of a contact should be reflected in
your contact list, but is otherwise irrelevant.
for example kopete - there's deffinitely no need to have both
"9:35:04
User Xyz is typing" and "9:35:08 User Xyz send new message:...."
notifications
That "User Xyz is typing" notification is also unhelpful and redundant and
should just be disabled by default.
I'll bring this up in the KDE SIG meetings, I think we should really disable
that stuff by default in kde-settings.
Kevin Kofler
4:32 a.m.
On Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:13:29 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
>> Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non-
>> exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we
>> should disable it by default in kde-settings?
>
> afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many
> other apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time.
The problem is not that notifications are enabled by default (of course
they are), but what kind of notifications are enabled. The ones Kopete
issues don't make sense.
> You can check it in system settings->notifications.
>
> I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or
> where/how do you think these notifications should be displayed?
Not at all. A change in online status of a contact should be reflected in
your contact list, but is otherwise irrelevant.
it's not irrelevant if you are trying to catch online someone who is online
only time to time
> for example kopete - there's deffinitely no need to have
both "9:35:04
> User Xyz is typing" and "9:35:08 User Xyz send new message:...."
> notifications
That "User Xyz is typing" notification is also unhelpful and redundant and
should just be disabled by default.
also has use case for me, so even this is disabled by default, I'll turn it on
again
I'll bring this up in the KDE SIG meetings, I think we should
really
disable that stuff by default in kde-settings.
disabling something won't fix it, also I don't think this is that bad that it
requires extra patch to turn it off by default and diverge from upstream
9:50 p.m.
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
disabling something won't fix it, also I don't think this is
that bad that
it requires extra patch to turn it off by default and diverge from
upstream
It shouldn't require a patch, just a config setting. That's what kde-
settings is for.
(But I also think the default should be changed upstream. This is really not
what the notification system was designed for.)
Kevin Kofler
10:54 a.m.
On 08/23/2010 02:19 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
A lowly user view here about popups ..
Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window splat
on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not
interfere with my work.
All the popup notifications are annoying and detract from the main
computer use - and none of them is so important they warrnet immediate
attenion.
They always obscure something even if it only makes me wait a few
moments (firefox download notif is a great example of how NOT to do it -
it sits on top of my workspace chooser and forces me to use keyboard
shortcut or wait) - or even worse - those that steal focus are beyond
ennoying
Let the notif be like email - let the users read it when its
convenient for them ...
Thank you.
2:19 p.m.
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:54 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote:
Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window
splat
on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not
interfere with my work.
It gets worse. I frequently come back to a desktop on which my
girlfriend is logged in, switch users, and there are a load of popup
notifications on the suspended session. Or the other way around. At this
point, I generally uninstall software (including update software - I
have a nice and growing list of "exclude" entries in my yum config) that
annoys me with popups that I can't permanently disable.
Jon.
12:53 p.m.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Jon Masters <jonathan(a)jonmasters.org>wrote:
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:54 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote:
> Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window splat
> on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not
> interfere with my work.
It gets worse. I frequently come back to a desktop on which my
girlfriend is logged in, switch users, and there are a load of popup
notifications on the suspended session. Or the other way around. At this
point, I generally uninstall software (including update software - I
have a nice and growing list of "exclude" entries in my yum config) that
annoys me with popups that I can't permanently disable.
Jon.
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that was one of the issues i wants opinions about i.
in fact, i would like to create a small config application that allows the
user to manage when to check & when to announce the notifications.
i would like to know your opinions about this application so i can create
the "one size fits all" notifications system.
--
Regards,,
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad
@meGenius
5:03 a.m.
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 00:46 +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
Hi all,,
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list
about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the
fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them
on the wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check &
gives feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, &
you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update
infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to
users?
Or were you expecting other types of notifications?
3:14 p.m.
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:03 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the
update
infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to
users?
Or were you expecting other types of notifications?
The motivation for this system was that when we managed to break
PackageKit's notification system, we couldn't use the PK notification
system to tell people to install the update to fix the PK notification
system. =)
(I suppose if we have two mechanisms, we'd have to try really hard to
break both of them at once. But I'm not really sure if a generic
mechanism for us to spam the user is a great idea.)
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
3:54 p.m.
2010/8/23 Adam Williamson <awilliam(a)redhat.com>
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:03 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update
> infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to
> users?
>
> Or were you expecting other types of notifications?
The motivation for this system was that when we managed to break
PackageKit's notification system, we couldn't use the PK notification
system to tell people to install the update to fix the PK notification
system. =)
(I suppose if we have two mechanisms, we'd have to try really hard to
break both of them at once. But I'm not really sure if a generic
mechanism for us to spam the user is a great idea.)
--
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We're Losing here:
a) Yes. My principal "underground" propouse with this idea was creating a
Notification System that might be useful for all distros. That's the why I
suggested the Name "Hermes" for the project
b) Let's test it first in Fedora and see how it goes, my idea was having a
notification system that let the user Choose between what kind of news they
wanna recieve in some part of the instalation process (trough anaconda) so
if they want the notifier ON they would have that option during the install
and they will be able to choose between feeds.
By example, if I wanna recieve news about bugs, Everytime there's a problem
like the update bug in Fedora 13 my notifier will pop out from the tray and
will inform that to me as packagekit does when there's a update available
and some seconds later it dissapears but I can still read that by clicking
in the information button of KDE at the end of my panel.
By other hand, if one user wants to recieve all the news from all the fedora
planet's blogs, obviously that user is going to recieve tons and tons of
notifications...
In few words, my idea (Hermes) was focused in building a Feed Parser
customizable by the user that can be turned on/off trough anaconda the first
time the user installs...
For more details I invite you to read the full thread about hermes, wich was
born in the ambassadors list, here's a "digest" just to call it something:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-August/015238.html
(That's the first message and the thread continous to the last message when
mahmoud told me we're switching to the devel list)
Once you're awared about everything, I think it's going to be easier start
joining ideas for the goal :)
--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick(a)googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)
PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6
4:01 p.m.
On 08/23/2010 01:54 PM, Manuel Escudero wrote:
b) Let's test it first in Fedora and see how it goes, my idea was having
a notification system that let the user Choose between what kind of news
they wanna recieve in some part of the instalation process (trough
anaconda) so
if they want the notifier ON they would have that option during the
install and they will be able to choose between feeds.
<snip>
In few words, my idea (Hermes) was focused in building a Feed Parser
customizable by the user that can be turned on/off trough anaconda the
first time the user installs...
Just a minor point, but that should probably be firstboot rather than
anaconda. After all, during most of the anaconda part of the install,
it doesn't even know whether the installing person wants to install
Hermes or not yet, and the rest of it after that is usually mostly
non-interactive package installation.
--
J. Randall Owens | http://www.ghiapet.net/
5:25 p.m.
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 13:14 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:03 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update
> infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to
> users?
>
> Or were you expecting other types of notifications?
The motivation for this system was that when we managed to break
PackageKit's notification system, we couldn't use the PK notification
system to tell people to install the update to fix the PK notification
system. =)
(I suppose if we have two mechanisms, we'd have to try really hard to
break both of them at once. But I'm not really sure if a generic
mechanism for us to spam the user is a great idea.)
Right. So the problem is to not actually break PackageKit's notification
system, not to add blue tack and scotch tape on top of it.
5:34 p.m.
On 08/24/2010 03:55 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Right. So the problem is to not actually break PackageKit's
notification
system, not to add blue tack and scotch tape on top of it.
The proposed solution is not just for package update issues but for
general announcements that are of importance to end users. A simple
solution like reading a rss feed and showing some notifications on the
desktop has a much less chance of breaking rather than PackageKit which
has already been shown to be complex enough to have problems now and
then. Although we can wish for perfect software, reality is different.
Rahul
10:35 a.m.
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 00:46 +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
Hi all,,
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list
about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the
fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them
on the wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check &
gives feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, &
you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
My immediate thought looking at your email was:
- don't put 'Fedora' in the name: anything done here needs to be
consumable by other distributions, and naming it 'Fedora' would be a big
turn-off
But I see that you're using "Hermes" as a name (nice!).
The code basically subscribes you to this RSS feed:
http://rss.gmane.org/messages/excerpts/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.core.ann...
emitting the messages as desktop notifications.
Some thoughts looking at the code:
- it's legitimate for a computer to not have a internet connection, so
the code needs avoiding spamming the user's session with the "There was
a problem getting the latest notifications. Please check your internet
connection" messages.
- are these notifications a "system" level thing that the
administrator of the box should see, or something that all users of the
box should see?
- is the RSS feed the correct one? Are the messages there appropriate
for all users of Fedora? For example, should the messages be localized?
Hope this is helpful
Dave
2:58 a.m.
On Friday, August 20, 2010 10:46:43 pm Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
Hi all,,
Hi!
before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list
about a
work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop
(whatever the desktop is).
after some discussion, we started with some guide lines & putted them on
the wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system
Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through system
notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like
"Close your desktop, nuclear war out there" (or just a security update combined
with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things
like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some
tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc.
Jaroslav
Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check &
gives
feedbacks about it.
you can reach it through gitweb:
http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary
or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo:
git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git
keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, & you
should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some
notifications.
--
Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com>
Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 602 797 774
Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/
9:34 a.m.
Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go
through system
notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like
"Close your desktop, nuclear war out there" (or just a security update combined
with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things
like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some
tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc.
That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets
at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in
users' faces is not the job of an operating system.
[0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml
11:26 a.m.
2010/8/24 Garrett Holmstrom <gholms(a)fedoraproject.org>
Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through
system
> notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority
notification like
> "Close your desktop, nuclear war out there" (or just a security update
combined
> with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of
things
> like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar,
some
> tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc.
That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets
at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in
users' faces is not the job of an operating system.
[0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml
--
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@Jaroslav: The idea is to have a way to communicate Fedora with the user and
viceversa... If Fedora has another Important Bug like the "Update One" in
Fedora 13
"Hermes" will tell the user inmediatly and it will say the user how to fix
it. The idea is to have not only a notification system, but also a way to
keep the user in touch with Fedora.
I think that if there's already a plasma widget for a RSS Feed Parser (Or a
screenlet in case of gnome) we can start working from there... I'll also
would like to offer the user a "search bar" in hermes
that uses fedora's database to give search results to the user, so when
someone using fedora wants to know a "HowTo" instead of using Google,
they'll have the option of "Fedora answering them"
@Garret: Many things are not the job of an operating system already... The
idea is to transform Fedora in more that just software... Let's transform it
into a intelligent enviroment concerned about it's users
and powered by it's community...
--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick(a)googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)
PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6
3:05 a.m.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2010 06:26:52 pm Manuel Escudero wrote:
2010/8/24 Garrett Holmstrom <gholms(a)fedoraproject.org>
> Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through
>
> system
>
> > notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority
>
> notification like
>
> > "Close your desktop, nuclear war out there" (or just a security
update
>
> combined
>
> > with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of
>
> things
>
> > like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your
> > calendar,
>
> some
>
> > tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc.
>
> That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets
> at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in
> users' faces is not the job of an operating system.
>
> [0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
@Jaroslav: The idea is to have a way to communicate Fedora with the user
and viceversa... If Fedora has another Important Bug like the "Update One"
in Fedora 13
"Hermes" will tell the user inmediatly and it will say the user how to fix
it. The idea is to have not only a notification system, but also a way to
keep the user in touch with Fedora.
I think that if there's already a plasma widget for a RSS Feed Parser (Or a
screenlet in case of gnome) we can start working from there... I'll also
would like to offer the user a "search bar" in hermes
that uses fedora's database to give search results to the user, so when
someone using fedora wants to know a "HowTo" instead of using Google,
they'll have the option of "Fedora answering them"
Yes, we have plain RSS widget, the whole Plasma Desktop is completely scriptable
so it offers lot of opportunites how we can interact with our users. I'll try to
think more about it ;-)
Thanks
Jaroslav
@Garret: Many things are not the job of an operating system
already... The
idea is to transform Fedora in more that just software... Let's transform
it into a intelligent enviroment concerned about it's users
and powered by it's community...
--
Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com>
Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 602 797 774
Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/
4984
days inactive
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60 comments
29 participants
participants (29)
-
Adam Williamson -
Al Dunsmuir -
Athmane Madjoudj -
Bastien Nocera -
Brandon Lozza -
Bruno Wolff III -
Chris Jones -
David Malcolm -
drago01 -
Garrett Holmstrom -
Genes MailLists -
Gerard Braad -
J. Randall Owens -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Jef Spaleta -
Jesse Keating -
Jon Masters -
Kevin Fenzi -
Kevin Kofler -
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad -
Manuel Escudero -
Matt McCutchen -
Matthew Miller -
Michal Hlavinka -
Mika Kuusela -
Mike McGrath -
Neal Gompa -
Rahul Sundaram -
Till Maas