On 4/14/06, Marius Andreiana <mandreiana.lists(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > * TV tuner no longer working (made bug, seems like udev issue after some > research, no reply) what video driver?

v4l has been changing at a fast rate upstream lately, with some old stuff being phased out, and other restructured, so it's perfectly possible udev has not caught up yet. You're paying all the years v4l was developed mainly in an external CVS. Hopefully it'll soon become a boring kernel subsystem like networking. But there is some pain ahead this year

On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 22:17 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > v4l has been changing at a fast rate upstream lately, with some old > stuff being phased out, and other restructured, so it's perfectly > possible udev has not caught up yet. > > You're paying all the years v4l was developed mainly in an external CVS. > Hopefully it'll soon become a boring kernel subsystem like networking. > But there is some pain ahead this year Would have been nice to have this in release notes, so users which really want TV stick to FC4 and users which choose to upgrade ignore their tv tuners (I will now).

Greetings, I've installed FC5 in the same week it was released (as usual), after using FC5test on one of my systems. After almost a month I'd like to share my impressions, not as a rant, but as sign of warning regarding release quality. There are a lot of regressions from FC4. First, the replicable ones: * webdav in nautilus is very slow, unusable for daily usage (made bug, no reply) * TV tuner no longer working (made bug, seems like udev issue after some research, no reply) * totem subtitles no longer work properly (lots of "???" instead of letters) * on a 256mb RAM system GNOME it's hardly usable due to swapping with more than 2 applications opened (firefox and another small one, no ooo). Only minimal services (network, xfs..) are started automatically. These wouldn't have been much of a problem, but there are also several un-replicable issues: * window borders disappear sometimes and then all GNOME freezes. It's possible to go to console with alt+Fn and kill some processes, but no effect. X must be killed and restarted. * once any application trying to output sound (including play on command line) hanged (must use kill -9). Rebooting fixed it. * starting udev gives sometimes "wait timeout. Switching to background [failed]". Due to this, network start failed and bluetooth hanged. Rebooting fixed it. * mplayer complains sometimes that XVideo can't be opened. I know mplayer isn't part of fedora, but the problem is with X. Restarting X makes it work. To conclude, there are many issues impacting user productivity and also a worrying trend "reboot and it should work" (sounds familiar?) I know Fedora is very fast moving and we should expect bugs, but the FC5 release feels like rawhide. Is this intended and daily users should better look to RHEL? (Lack of Fedora Extras for RHEL prevents me to switch right now, the licensing it's not an issue) Do you have any advices for developers? I don't see any real-world solutions (unlike "developers should be more careful when writing code" or make test cases for every function with every use case possible), but still, the number of bugs is growing. Anyway, thanks for FC5 and the important technical developments which were included :) -- Marius Andreiana Pity. I'm sorry to hear that. Things workd perfectly (almost) with me for

* window borders disappear sometimes and then all GNOME freezes. It's possible to go to console with alt+Fn and kill some processes, but no effect. X must be killed and restarted.

* once any application trying to output sound (including play on command line) hanged (must use kill -9). Rebooting fixed it.

Greetings, I've installed FC5 in the same week it was released (as usual), after using FC5test on one of my systems. After almost a month I'd like to share my impressions, not as a rant, but as sign of warning regarding release quality. There are a lot of regressions from FC4. First, the replicable ones: * webdav in nautilus is very slow, unusable for daily usage (made bug, no reply) * TV tuner no longer working (made bug, seems like udev issue after some research, no reply)

* totem subtitles no longer work properly (lots of "???" instead of letters) * on a 256mb RAM system GNOME it's hardly usable due to swapping with more than 2 applications opened (firefox and another small one, no ooo). Only minimal services (network, xfs..) are started automatically. These wouldn't have been much of a problem, but there are also several un-replicable issues: * window borders disappear sometimes and then all GNOME freezes. It's possible to go to console with alt+Fn and kill some processes, but no effect. X must be killed and restarted. * once any application trying to output sound (including play on command line) hanged (must use kill -9). Rebooting fixed it. * starting udev gives sometimes "wait timeout. Switching to background [failed]". Due to this, network start failed and bluetooth hanged. Rebooting fixed it. * mplayer complains sometimes that XVideo can't be opened. I know mplayer isn't part of fedora, but the problem is with X. Restarting X makes it work. To conclude, there are many issues impacting user productivity and also a worrying trend "reboot and it should work" (sounds familiar?) I know Fedora is very fast moving and we should expect bugs, but the FC5 release feels like rawhide. Is this intended and daily users should better look to RHEL? (Lack of Fedora Extras for RHEL prevents me to switch right now, the licensing it's not an issue) Do you have any advices for developers? I don't see any real-world solutions (unlike "developers should be more careful when writing code" or make test cases for every function with every use case possible), but still, the number of bugs is growing. Anyway, thanks for FC5 and the important technical developments which were included :) -- Marius Andreiana -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006, Marius Andreiana wrote: > Greetings, > * on a 256mb RAM system GNOME it's hardly usable due to swapping with > more than 2 applications opened (firefox and another small one, no ooo). > Only minimal services (network, xfs..) are started automatically. Mm.. GNOME in FC5 was supposed to use *less* memory than in previous versions. Have you looked at where exactly does the memory go to - is it really GNOME or something else, like Firefox?