On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 12:23:41AM -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: But a great deal of third-party programs use it. It's nice to have libraries like this in core so there's a relatively normal functional base. Duplication of which effort? -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>

On 02/25/2005 09:23:41 PM, Eric Warnke wrote: keep emacs, move xemacs. keep lynx - a lot of existing scripts depend upon it, lynx really is almost as standard on *nix as vi - it is THE cli http client. -- Michael A. Peters http://mpeters.us/

Ville Skyttä <ville.skytta(a)iki.fi&gt; writes: Would you consider moving only xemacs-sumo (about 3/4 of the whole thing) and keep the core xemacs? FWIW, since someone has voiced a "keep emacs, move xemacs" preference I'd like to register the opposite suggestion ;-). -- Oleg Goldshmidt | pub(a)NOSPAM.goldshmidt.org | http://www.goldshmidt.org

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 12:31:43PM -0500, Chuck R. Anderson wrote: Honestly, that's why I like to have lynx around: "what would this look like to someone who for accessability reasons needs to use a tool that can't handle frames?". -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>

On 02/26/2005 09:48:03 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: lynx does handle frames. It also handles some CSS. It's a great browser to have on a headless box, and one that a lot of admins of headless boxes expect to be there. -- Michael A. Peters http://mpeters.us/

Michael A. Peters wrote: Jamie? How's that sound? :)

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 03:37 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: I've proposed its replacement with irssi before. It was generally agreed upon on this list... pvrabec: mind moving epic to Extras, and irssi from Extras into Core? Thanks -- Colin Charles, byte(a)aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi

Alexandre Oliva wrote: I use dovecot to export mail delivered in maildir format. Don't know about mbox - but you're not suggesting that cyrus exports standard format, are you? cyrus runs its own database - one reason I don't use it.

On Feb 28, 2005, Neal Becker <ndbecker2(a)verizon.net&gt; wrote: Nope. I'm suggesting it doesn't, and therefore dovecot is not duplicate effort, it stands on its own. Yup, same here. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva(a){redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva(a){lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org}

Round two of the first set of possibilities. I have marked objections and removed a few from consiteration. Any with objections that I have kept, I have expanded on my reasoning. Once again these are suggestions to the community and I have no power to make the cuts myself, but once the discussion is complete I will forward the annotaded recommendationd up the food chain. In responding, please comment if you want it kept in core or in extras and why. Removed from consiteration Xaw3d - required by emacs and emacs is being kept bogl* - kernel 2.2 fb graphics lib d:0 ( should update dependancies here if it's required by the installer! ) epic/irssi? epic is there and it's the only text mode irc client unless we want to swap it out for irssi Ojections, but I still believe could be moved. dovecot - IPAP server - 2 objections, but if you can server to the internet, you can download it from extras. Ether this or cyrus should be cut. ElectricFence - Development only nothing depends on it - 1 objection, but I still say it's usage does not justify it remaining in core - there is at least one competing package ( dmalloc, valgrind ) lynx/elinks - 1 objection about scripts using lynx... ether those scripts are not part of core or they are not marked correctly. If you can surf the web with either, you can download them from extras. If either has a dependancy in core the .src.rpm needs to be corrected. doxygen - Sorce code documentation generator D:0 - 1 objecton - I don't think we necessarly need to keep every build dependancy in core. Likley without objections SDL* - kdeaddons is the only thing that depends on this + kdeaddons - small add on packages. not 100% necessary Canna - Superceeded by IIMF - nothing depends ! 10MB MAKEDEV - Superceeded by udev ? *VFlib2 - Required by MajicPoint and ghostscript - only if we can break the ghostscript compatibility + MagicPoint - Duplicated functionality already in other packages a2ps - text to postscript tool required by xfprint awesfx - OLD ( 2000 ) D:0 cdecl - C/C++ to English conversion D:0 dasher - obscure alternate input method ! 10MB apel - extras for emacs + ddskk - extra input methods for emacs + flim - message encoding emacs + wl - imap/pop/nntp reader arptables_jf - specialized filtering of arp D:0 cscope - c code browser - duplicate effort D:0 Possible without objections Guppi ccs - cluster config? cdlabelgen - does anyone use? D:0 autorun - functionality in most desktops already d:0 More to follow.... Cheers, Eric -- Eric Warnke Computer Programmer / Systems Analyst eric(a)snowmoon.com 518-727-1523 GPG Fingerprint: E7C5 615B 2115 C9D9 7E75 5088 930B 91E5 218B 6259 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.' - H.L. Mencken

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 14:49 +0100, dragoran wrote: +1 I agree that removing most games (except the basic as gnome-games) from FC is desirable however removing SDL would mean that even for installing almost any games this dependency would have to be installed by user. I don't think it's a good idea. -- Tomas Mraz <tmraz(a)redhat.com&gt;

[snip] then a lot of third part packagers should do a better job of packaging. myself included. -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/pubkey.asc

ons, 02.03.2005 kl. 19.40 skrev Demond James: No it's just the common mentality i am seeing on these lists - if a lib isn't required for anything in core, drop it as fast as possible!

Jakub Jelinek wrote: Yes yes yes and yes.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:24:40 -0500, Eric Warnke <eric(a)snowmoon.com&gt; wrote: Cough in the developmnent tree....libtiff rpm -q --requires libtiff libglut.so.3 rpm -q --whatprovides libglut.so.3 freeglut-2.2.0-14 how are you checking for deps? the libtiff deps isnt somthing obscure.. its required by gtk2. I just want to make sure you aren't wasting your time using a depcheck method thats going to be highly unreliable. Are you looking at the deps in fc3 or in rawhide? I'm not sure looking at the dep chains in fc3 gives an accurate picture for the sake of this discussion. uhm... thats almost an offensive comment... a11y elements are very important... just be glad you don't need them. used by gnucash.... how are you checking for deps? Even in fc3 this is a requirement. rawhide: libguppi.so.16 is needed by (installed) gnucash-1.8.11-1.i386 libguppitank.so.16 is needed by (installed) gnucash-1.8.11-1.i386 fc3: libguppi.so.16 is needed by (installed) gnucash-1.8.9-2.i386 libguppitank.so.16 is needed by (installed) gnucash-1.8.9-2.i386 if you don't understand the function perhaps its best not to list as being removable. how is complexity a reason to drop it? apache is pretty complex as well. either make the duplication argument or make the argument that its unneeded in core. Are you saying that other cli postscript generators can convert Hangul and thus overlap in functionality? -jef

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:17:12 -0500, Eric Warnke <eric(a)snowmoon.com&gt; wrote: I'm pretty sure the entire point of dasher is related to accessibility. man dasher ... Control mode Provides a control node at the bottom of the screen. This allows various tasks to be performed inside Dasher, such as editing the text written, speaking entered text and stopping or pausing Dasher. If compiled with and using a desktop supporting the ATK accessibility framework, compliant applications will have their menu trees exported to Dasher and these may be accessed via this node. As soon as you play with it.. and configure it to enable the control mode...you'll see control elements apear in the interface and not just alphabet. -jef

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 12:24 -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: Some scripts will use this but relatively few. This is one of the cases where the FC3 package doesn't actually work on FC4, though -- it'll break in an upgrade. I'd like to see it die in FC5 -- OpenSSH needs to completely provide the same functionality first though. OpenSSH doesn't yet have the capacity to automatically decide whether to be the 'master' and open the first connection, or whether to be the 'slave' and use an existing connection. Neither does it hold the connection open with a timeout. Not hard to fix -- but since fsh is only 161KiB, it hasn't been a huge priority. We don't gain much by dropping it, but I'd like to say in the release notes that it's deprecated, so that we can drop it from FC5. Although by FC5 we can just move it into Extras without too much upgrade pain anyway. -- dwmw2

On Saturday 26 February 2005 18:39, Matthew Miller wrote: A lot of people use that kind of file manager (and it's AFAICT the only text mode file manager in Core) -- http://LinuxWiki.org/RonnyBuchmann

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:25:36 +0000, Michael A. Peters <mpeters(a)mac.com&gt; wrote: We use sudo extensively on every unix system we have. If you've got more than one person doing sysadmining on a machine, it's essential. If I wanted to spend time tracking down and installing all the basic things I need to make a system where I can be productive, I'd install Solaris, not Linux.

Hi I dont support removing sudo either but yum install sudo isnt a hard thing to do. if you are going to jump operating systems just because of this then thats overreacting IMO ===== Regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

Hi. "Paul A. Houle" <ph18(a)cornell.edu&gt; wrote: And it's one of the fastest ways to turn a package managed system into an absolute mess unless you know quite well what you're doing. -- Percussive Maintenance: The fine art of whacking the c**p out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

Hi you are completely wrong about that. yum has auto depedency resolver and several other advantages over installing from source. with pup in fc4 it would be even more friendlier let me get this straight. if its called fedora core and is in ISO images, its there and if its in fedora extras as rpm packages, it goes away? ===== Regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

--- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net&gt; wrote: yes. something close to this is very useful as a minimalistic installation which many users have been asking for repeatedly I actually agree with you on sudo but telling people that you would change operating systems instead of typing in yum install sudo is silly. ===== Regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 08:36 -0600, Chris Adams wrote: Frankly speaking, that's close to I am using Fedora: All I'd need is a CD sufficiently equipped to perform a "basic upgrade/install" and to launch a "yum/apt network install". Once the "network install" is up, it doesn't matter much in which repository on the net the packages are located. Ralf

On Saturday 26 February 2005 18:42, Miloslav Trmac wrote: I thought boot disks are not possibke anyway? Maybe we can remove all of this. -- http://LinuxWiki.org/RonnyBuchmann

Jamie Zawinski wrote: You know, there is another alternative that is neither concensus nor dictatorship. We could vote.

Le samedi 26 février 2005 à 13:08 -0500, Chuck R. Anderson a écrit : +1 for keeping lftp and moving ncftp out. This is way overdue. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot

On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:12:53AM +0100, Pozsár Balázs wrote: lftp can do recursive get, not sure about put.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 01:08:09PM -0500, Chuck R. Anderson wrote: Probably not. But removing telnetd wouldn't bother me. -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 02:46:51PM -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: I'm using talk daily. Much better than all the modern (graphical) tools built on (mostly) crap IM protocols. -- -- Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl&gt; -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204

Jamie Zawinski wrote: I think the objection is to splitting an upstream package between two repositories and maintainers. Cheers, -- Eric Warnke Computer Programmer / Systems Analyst eric(a)snowmoon.com 518-727-1523 GPG Fingerprint: E7C5 615B 2115 C9D9 7E75 5088 930B 91E5 218B 6259 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.' - H.L. Mencken

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 02:46:51PM -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: Not impossible; just more of a pain. -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>

- we already discussed moving this to extras nano doesn't do utf8 afaict, pico isn't in the distribution (it's pine) emacs is almost it's own operating system ed doesn't count and you know it vi is not an editor I'm fine with moving joe to extras personally but it does fill a place nothing else fills. -sv

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 13:26 -0500, Chuck R. Anderson wrote: I think it makes music. All I seem to get from it is beeps. -sv

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 01:25:47PM -0500, seth vidal wrote: I think nowdays for most users kedit/gedit are that place

Hi bad idea what GUI text editors are KDE and GNOME users supposed to use?. ===== Regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

Ralf Corsepius wrote: Yeah but when people load up X they aren't wasting the memory to continue to do everything in terminals...that's kinda the point... Forcing them to doesn't really make X look that useful to new users, or that friendly either. Sure cause they are all too stupid use a web browser and look for a solution. Your view of typical Fedora users is somewhat disheartening. Would you think taking notepad out of Windows would make more people use DOS Edit? Or install someting else? Look all I'm saying is why take the basic GUI editors out when they don't really take much space and don't take 2 mins to load like OO? -sb

yes, There will be a simple gui text editor. Ralf has no more control over core than you or I. -sv

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:33:23 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot <Nicolas.Mailhot(a)laposte.net&gt; wrote: cyrus-sasl is a requirement for some important items like openldap and sendmail and even mutt. -jef

Since this is the second time this has come up... Is being part of RHEL reason enough to keep things in core? If that is the case I will exclude from my list all packages that exist in RHEL. Personally I don't think that should be the goal here. If you want RHEL compatibility then get a RHEL knockoff. Cheers Eric Michael Schwendt wrote: -- Eric Warnke Computer Programmer / Systems Analyst eric(a)snowmoon.com 518-727-1523 GPG Fingerprint: E7C5 615B 2115 C9D9 7E75 5088 930B 91E5 218B 6259 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.' - H.L. Mencken

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Chris Adams wrote: Don't worry about whether the packages are in RHEL - we'll sort out that mess when we come to it. ;-) -- Elliot

Is it that difficult for RH to maintain contol, but be copied to extras for building in Fedora Extras? If this is not already a thread internal to RH it should be. What is the real and expected deliniation between FC, FE, RHEL, and RH as a company and the maintainers and community at large? I understand there are real business issues that forced the creation of FE, but now the continued push for more community involvment necessatated by package maintanince and thereby extending FE into FC's old territory... what's the deal? I don't expect anyone can answer the question right now, but I think we at least deserve an answer at some point in the near future. Cheers, Eric Jeff Spaleta wrote: -- Eric Warnke Computer Programmer / Systems Analyst eric(a)snowmoon.com 518-727-1523 GPG Fingerprint: E7C5 615B 2115 C9D9 7E75 5088 930B 91E5 218B 6259 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.' - H.L. Mencken

Once upon a time, Eric Warnke <eric(a)snowmoon.com&gt; said: At one time, lynx was the only one of those that could do SSL, basic authentication, etc. (I don't know the current state of all of them because I use lynx). I think it may still be the only one that verifies SSL certificates. An example of a script that uses lynx is the Apache apachectl script. IIRC the perl CPAN module can also use it when libwww-perl is not available. Since lynx was (and may still be) the widest-spread text mode browser, many third party and home-grown scripts use it. I haven't seen scripts that come out-of-the box that use any of the others; that would be a reason to keep lynx over the others. No it doesn't. It should be. Every UPS at Best Buy and even Wal-Mart has shutdown software for Windows, and nut is the tool to use for Linux. It is useful for both workstations and servers. Actually mtools predates dosfstools (I used mtools on Suns at least 12-14 years ago IIRC). However, they don't overlap entirely. Mtools is designed mainly to operate on floppies and wants to do things in terms of drive letters (that have to be configured). Dosfstools has VFAT mkfs and fsck utils that work just like other Unix filesystem mkfs/fsck (and can handle more mkfs options). I don't think mtools includes an fsck equivalent. Not at all. Strace looks at system calls and ltrace looks library calls (hence the "s" vs. the "l"). In what way? Is there duplicated functionality, or is it in way out of date? It performs its function (quite well), is up to date with respect to the interfaces required, and is the only tool for the job I believe. There are numerous packages that don't get regular updates because they just work and the requirements don't change. I built some walls today, but I didn't go buy a new hammer just because mine is old (although I did look at some new ones at the hardware store!). Lftp is much more useful than ncftp (and lftp is in the default install where ncftp is not). Drop ncftp instead. No idea how easy a2ps may be to remove, but GNU enscript is another flexible text to Postscript tool that is also included (don't know if the functionality is the same though). Yes, and AFAIK there is no included alternative to backing up ACLs. The info interface may be great if you are an emacs user, but it is not for the rest of us. Pinfo is far superior for normal people. So are OpenOffice.org, xorg-x11, kernel, etc. That is no reason to remove something. It is also a useful package for servers. There is no other text-mode file manager (except for a basic bit in lynx IIRC). -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net&gt; Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

At this point I think I have weeded out all of the packages that should not be moved and solicited enough feedback to give put forward a reasonable set of packages to be moved from core to extras. This is the last posting to this list. Please forward additional comments off-list and I will pass the whole parcel along in a day or two. I do believe in a slimed down core so that we all can have a stronger and more efficient base of software to work from. To divert energy into packages that duplicate effort seems waistful and counter productive. To that end I submit to the community the list of packages that I think should migrate to extras and be picked up by the community or be dropped. I am also willing to pick up some of these packages in extras based if they are used in my environment and current maintainers want to give them up. *Recomendation for depreciation* fsh - fast shell, features being absorbed into OpenSSH ( Depreciate in anticipation of OpenSSH functionality ) *Ojections, let technical team make final call.* mc - Is this really a core util? would it be better served in extras? several objections as the only text mode file manager. I'm on the fence on this one. freeglut - libtiff dependancy - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=149784 dovecot/cryus - IMAP server cyrus does seem more like a specialty package when compared to the simplcity and utility of dovecot. OTOH cyrus is maintained for RHEL and other packages depends on cyrus-sasl. The community definatly appears to favor keeping dovecot and letting cyrus be religated to extras. lynx/w3m+w3m-el/elinks - 1 objection about scripts using lynx... ether those scripts are not part of core or they are not marked correctly. If you can surf the web with either, you can download them from extras. If either has a dependancy in core the .src.rpm needs to be corrected. Personally I think lynx and w3m should go to extras. SDL - Few things depend on this. 1 objection. Would be nice to have in core, but is really not a core function since nothing in core depends on it. Anything that is going to require it can pull it down from extras. + kdeaddons - small add on packages. not 100% necessary. + gstreamer-plugins + theora-tools ! *gnomemeeting* - It is possible to compile without SDL support, I will test that change ans see what aspects of the program it affects. nut - nice package, but is it really core materal? 1 objection used on server. Is server use enough to keep it in core? talk - protocol is getting old with IM - 3 objections... do people still use this. Last time I saw this in active use was a decade ago. Unlike other mature tools nothing really depends on talk. I think this is in the same category as telnetd, it's just not in wide enough use to justify keeping it in core. *Recommend eviction from core* ncftp - duplicate funcationality ( ftp, lftp ) nobody appeard to have any love lost if this moves to extras w3m/w3m-el - another text pager/web browser tora - packaged without oracle plugin and does not appear to work out of the box with MySQL or postgress. tix - Tcl/Tk extansion ( only id tkinter can go as well ) routed - appears to be superceeded by quagga qmkbootdisk - graphical boot disk creation utiltiy - stale ots - was used as part of abiword, but abiword has been religated to extras. This one is a no brainer nss_db - partly broken. Most usefulness gone now that nscd is standard ( I will personally manage since I wrote the fix ) mew - emailing in emacs dmalloc, valgrind - electricfence appears to be more compatible and better developed. giftrans - netpbm tools can do the same iptstate - package getting stale jed - another text mode editor joe - yet another text editor ( nano / emacs / vi ) nedit - another x text editor Canna - Superceeded by IIMF - nothing depends ! 10MB MagicPoint - Duplicated functionality already in other packages OO.o a2ps - text to postscript tool required by xfprint ( xfprint already in extras ) no brainer awesfx - OLD ( 2000 ) D:0 cdecl - C/C++ to English conversion D:0 apel - extras for emacs + ddskk - extra input methods for emacs + flim - message encoding emacs + wl - imap/pop/nntp reader arptables_jf - specialized filtering of arp D:0 cscope - c code browser - duplicate effort D:0 cdlabelgen - does anyone use? D:0 autorun - functionality in most desktops already d:0 ftpcopy - utility D:0. I have never used it do we need in core g-wrap - Another wrapper for a development utility d:0 Cheers, -- Eric Warnke Computer Programmer / Systems Analyst eric(a)snowmoon.com 518-727-1523 GPG Fingerprint: E7C5 615B 2115 C9D9 7E75 5088 930B 91E5 218B 6259 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.' - H.L. Mencken

BTW pan was moved to extras but I don't remember what the official replacement was supposed to be. Objections were raised by Alan Cox among others. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot

On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 12:09:44AM -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: Please don't mention valgrind in the list of packages you want to remove. Valgrind is a real necessity in finding memory allocation bugs, but so is ElectricFence, malloc checking in glibc and mudflap. dmalloc I have no objection to, but valgrind is really going to stay. Jakub

please do not axe dovecot. it's the first imap server that runs out of the box without major trouble. On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:07:27 -0500, Chuck R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu&gt; wrote:

Cameron Simpson writes: There are at least three text browsers in FC. All that's being proposed is removing one or two. A means of rendering HTML for text mode users will remain. Exactly which means of doing so it what's being discussed (FWIW, I use both lynx and links on a regular basis, but could happily lose w3m). Tet

Eric Warnke wrote: agreed hmm, in KDE also?

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:23:57 +0100, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203(a)freenet.de&gt; wrote: I agree wholeheartedly. It just wouldn't be the same without both of these guys. :) Cheers, -- Konstantin Ryabitsev Zlotniks, INC

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 12:24 -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: I think we should have a text-mode browser in core, personaly I vote for elinks. The only thing I missed with elinks was the -dump feature that was available only in lynx. The recent elinks has this feature so I think elinks is the best from these now. Nope, usermode contains not only authentication helpers, but also usermount and other things that are of course missing in the other mentioned packages. Many programs are dependent on userhelper now so it's quite impossible to replace it by anything else at the moment. No objections against dropping this from core. This is very useful thing that should be in core. I don't see any substitute for it in field of text-mode file managers and it has some unique features such as rpm vfs that helps many people. Jindrich -- Jindrich Novy <jnovy(a)redhat.com&gt;, http://people.redhat.com/jnovy/

to be fair, it's not killing, it's just moving. and to my knowledge nothing links to freeradius like things link to krb5. -sv

On Saturday 26 February 2005 15:24, Eric Warnke wrote: I second removing cyrus from Core as it is really special purpose. -- http://LinuxWiki.org/RonnyBuchmann

BTW in a related topic if the arts part could be spun out of gstreamer-plugins this system could run without qt installed. It'd be easier to drop out suff later if it's not deeply linked like this Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot

On 02/27/2005 08:42:53 AM, Colin Walters wrote: No objections from me - gstreamer-plugins is the only reasin qt is on my system. -- Michael A. Peters http://mpeters.us/

Dnia 26-02-2005, sob o godzinie 09:24 -0500, Eric Warnke napisał(a): Just like desktop environments, it's really hard to say one editor can substitute another. Unlike DE-s, text editors are rather small (I use joe - 200 KiB RPM file, even nano having 1% of joe features is bigger) and removing them doesn't give this much benefit (meaning saved space) as removing f.e. KDE (since GNOME is the default, why haven't you list KDE? :)). I say let's move vi to Extras - an editor which can't be left with ^C deserves this! :) Is pico part of Rawhide now? I thought its licence is the same as pine's and can't be included, besides, you're using FC3 rpmdb and pico can't be found there. Can ed be thought of as a replacement for any full-screen text editor? :) Of course I won't go mad if joe is going to be moved to Extras, downloading 200 KiB will take only 20 seconds on my link, so go ahead, make my life harder and not gain anything for the Core :) Lam

On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 12:17 -0500, Chuck R. Anderson wrote: Nano could really do with UTF-8 support. I'm very tempted to ship a CVS snapshot for that reason, although that's generally not a good thing to do. Cone still lacks the capability to get at IMAP servers by rsh/ssh, doesn't it? -- dwmw2

On 02/26/2005 06:24:40 AM, Eric Warnke wrote: Absolutely the best cli ftp client I have ever used. Any *other* ftp clients are redundant :p Yes, there's curl and wget etc. which can download, yes - there's the standard ftp command, yes - lftp could be fetched from extras, but I think it should stay - it's not very big, and I bet it is heavily used. I think the idea behind moving stuff to Extras should not be to move every duplicate package - if masses of people are just going to yum install it, and it is small, it might as well be on the install CD. AbiWord/Gnumeric being large packages that aren't used by a lot of people are good examples. lftp (under 1 MB) and lynx (under 2MB) are small packages that are used by a fair number of people - they should thus not be moved. -- Michael A. Peters http://mpeters.us/

Hi Alan, can you please clarify that statement. its redundant obviously but why is it dangerous? ===== Regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 09:29 -0500, Alan Cox wrote: cyrus works great for large number of users/domains, with authentication from databases instead of system users. Please keep both (I never used dovecot, but it looks to work out-of-the-box compared to cyrus). Btw, cyrus default config should work with system users in the same way live dovecot? -- Marius Andreiana Epon Business Applications http://www.epon.ro

On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 08:38:51AM -0500, Eric Warnke wrote: cyrus, then. Dovecot is more general-purpose. -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>

Eric, thanks for taking on this task! Just a couple of comments On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Eric Warnke wrote: cyrus is not as widely useful, so it probably would be moved to Extras if anything. A while back I tried to work out the whole "text mode browser" confusion. There is also w3m in the mix. Each of them has unique attributes for particular users (blind users, CJK users, etc.) Someone such as yourself needs to find out all the details, pick the best one or two for the overall Fedora audience, and move the other(s) to Extras. Best, -- Elliot

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Jeff Spaleta wrote: Akira is the RH package owner of w3m, and he's well qualified to fill us in on the details because he did that last time I brought the issue up ;-) -- Elliot

Once upon a time, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com&gt; said: Mmm... nethack. I had a good nethack package a while back; sounds like a good excuse to clean it up and learn about maintaining a package in Extras. -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net&gt; Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

Once upon a time, Ville Skytt <ville.skytta(a)iki.fi&gt; said: I saw that, but I want the current "real" nethack. I'll work on it when I get a chance. -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net&gt; Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.