12:17 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: fedora-devel-list-bounces(a)redhat.com
[mailto:fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of
Rahul Sundaram
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:02 AM
To: Development discussions related to Fedora
Subject: Re: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
Robert Scheck wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> You can at run level 3. You can even start X after that.
>
> Haha, if the machine is a few hundred miles away at the
customer and you
> don't have any longer access? Ever tried to explain a
non-computer user
> being near to the machine how to solve issues via phone if
it's urgent or
> even critical and time to drive the few hundred miles is
not available,
> too? Very clever suggestion, you've made...
Yes. I have. For a few years actually and in my experience, it has
always been more efficient to instruct people type things in the
terminal rather than login via GDM as root user. For one, the
shell is
pretty consistent, commands don't change often if at all and for
administration, you frequently have to fall back to the
terminal anyway.
Never once have I felt a real need to tell people to get a
root X login
for any reason at all.
I'm going to jump into this flamefest, Can we STOP with the "Mother knows
best" menality in Fedora? I have needed to log in as root with X a few times.
Stop turning Fedora into a 'Ubuntu'.
Rahul
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12:22 p.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
Shawn Starr wrote:
I'm going to jump into this flamefest, Can we STOP with the "Mother knows
best" menality in Fedora? I have needed to log in as root with X a few times.
Stop turning Fedora into a 'Ubuntu'.
If you want to change it, edit your pam settings.
Rahul
4:37 p.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
Shawn Starr wrote:
I'm going to jump into this flamefest, Can we STOP with the
"Mother knows
best" menality in Fedora? I have needed to log in as root with X a few
times. Stop turning Fedora into a 'Ubuntu'.
+1
The funny thing is, the GDM config file even used to say in a comment that
anybody who disables root login "should be shot". That was back when GDM
actually had this as a config option, rather than the current PAM hack
which makes root login fail with a confusing error message because GDM
doesn't even understand what's going on. (The GDM rewrite dropped the old
option.)
Kevin Kofler
12:46 p.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kofler(a)chello.at) said:
The funny thing is, the GDM config file even used to say in a comment
that
anybody who disables root login "should be shot".
Yes, but the Queen of England has no authority here.
Bill
6:32 p.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 13:46 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kofler(a)chello.at) said:
> The funny thing is, the GDM config file even used to say in a comment that
> anybody who disables root login "should be shot".
Yes, but the Queen of England has no authority here.
Authority or not, that doesn't make her wrong. Tell the nag-nannies I
said sod off. It's not that I *need* to login as root on an X session,
it's that I *want* to. If I accept the risks (of which there aren't
really any since I'm only doing this on test machines behind a firewall
that aren't used for web surfing or email, I just want the desktop real
estate that I get with lots of side by side gnome terminals instead of
flipping console vts all the time), then that's my business. Not to
mention that all my test boxes use both NFS and NIS internally, and the
only valid local account is root, and no I'm not going to create some
dumb ass account that's local only with a home in /tmp so I can actually
login and fix any NIS/NFS related problems, I don't need one, I have
root. And I'm really curious about what the difference is between
telling someone go to init 3 and then run startx instead of just logging
in as root is. I can't, for the life of me, see any benefit to telling
people not to login as root while leaving that hole open, after all, the
entire session will still be owned by root either way.
Anyway, much thanks to the person that pointed out where to go to fix
this fascist crap. I consider myself a "super user", but each person
has their areas of expertise and mucking around with pam isn't mine.
Guess I'll be adding a new sed command to my %post scripts in my
kickstarts. I would suggest you do the same Ben, the nanny state has
taken over.
--
Doug Ledford <dledford(a)redhat.com>
GPG KeyID: CFBFF194
http://people.redhat.com/dledford
Infiniband specific RPMs available at
http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband
10:36 p.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Doug Ledford wrote:
Authority or not, that doesn't make her wrong. Tell the
nag-nannies I
said sod off. It's not that I *need* to login as root on an X session,
it's that I *want* to. If I accept the risks
And while we're at it, throw away the the stupid rm/cp/mv aliases
in root's .bashrc.
No? Sorry, I had to try :P
Paul
7:04 a.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 23:36 -0500, Paul Wouters wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Doug Ledford wrote:
> Authority or not, that doesn't make her wrong. Tell the nag-nannies I
> said sod off. It's not that I *need* to login as root on an X session,
> it's that I *want* to. If I accept the risks
And while we're at it, throw away the the stupid rm/cp/mv aliases
in root's .bashrc.
No? Sorry, I had to try :P
I forgot about those. But, they've been around so long that I've gotten
totally used to passing -f on any cp/mv/rm action that involves more
than just 2 or 3 files.
--
Doug Ledford <dledford(a)redhat.com>
GPG KeyID: CFBFF194
http://people.redhat.com/dledford
Infiniband specific RPMs available at
http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband
10:18 a.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
Paul Wouters wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Doug Ledford wrote:
> Authority or not, that doesn't make her wrong. Tell the nag-nannies I
> said sod off. It's not that I *need* to login as root on an X session,
> it's that I *want* to. If I accept the risks
And while we're at it, throw away the the stupid rm/cp/mv aliases
in root's .bashrc.
No? Sorry, I had to try :P
Actually, we should. They're an unreliable crutch; by training people
that they have a second chance, we train them to pull the trigger first,
and /then/ stop to think if they know what they're doing. Which, as soon
as they're on a system that doesn't have these aliases, means they shoot
themselves.
(And I know I'm not the only one with that opinion...)
--
Matthew
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
--
Here endeth the rant... which I realize is not likely to Win Friends or
Influence People, especially the person to whom it was directed.
-- Charles Wilson (generalized)
4:49 a.m.
New subject: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Shawn Starr <sstarr(a)platform.com> wrote:
[...]
I'm going to jump into this flamefest, Can we STOP with the "Mother knows
best" menality in Fedora? I have needed to log in as root with X a few
times. Stop turning Fedora into a 'Ubuntu'.
Then you have done something wrong. I never used a root login on X and I
administrate a lot of UNIX systems (not only LNX). There is no reason where
you need it (except a wrong system installation or system design).
Regards, Thomas
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8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Bill Nottingham -
Doug Ledford -
Kevin Kofler -
Matthew Woehlke -
Paul Wouters -
Rahul Sundaram -
Shawn Starr -
Thomas Bendler