mid-meeting IRC log of agenda items
by Karsten Wade
This is the discussion section where we covered the agenda for today.
I'll post the entire log later.
17:06 < quaid> <meeting>
17:06 < quaid> and sometimes we start a few minutes lae :)
17:06 < quaid> s/lae/late/
17:06 * quaid pings some FDSCo folks
17:06 < quaid> stickster_afk, BobJensen
17:07 * EvilBob waves
17:07 < EvilBob> BobJensen
17:09 < quaid>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSc
\hedule
17:09 < quaid> as something to work against
17:10 < quaid> ok, I can give the DUG status
17:10 < quaid> I'm holding it up as Publication Editor, not for any
particular re\ason other than ...
17:10 < quaid> i) how do we signify the real content v. Docs/Drafts/?
17:10 < quaid> ii) I want to do a final read through.
17:11 < quaid> we have a problem of content scattered in many locations
17:11 < quaid> and now we have the Docs/Drafts/ URL itself linked from
the splash\ page
17:11 < quaid> which in hindsight was a mistake
17:11 < quaid> we should have done a link to Docs/DesktopUserGuide and
done a red\irect to the draft until publish.
17:12 < quaid> but we need a way to signify a "version for the latest FC
version"\
and "this is for the next FC version"
17:12 < quaid> Docs/ is the former, Docs/Drafts/ is the latter
17:12 < quaid> so ...
17:12 < quaid> how does it sound to ...
17:12 < quaid> have a big link on Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide that
links to the \published version on Docs/
17:13 < quaid> then let the Drafts/ go back to being a draft for F*7
17:13 < EvilBob> +1
17:16 < quaid> yeah, hadn't articulated that before, but it makes sense
now that \I write it out :)
17:17 < vnk_fd> is DUG considered completed?
17:18 < quaid> well, except for my publication edit
17:18 < quaid> we can add to it with FC6 content once live, though
17:18 < quaid> publication edit is me reading every page one last time
to normali\ze markup, wordsmith, etc.
17:19 < quaid> I just set that for Thursday this week (07 Dec)
17:19 < quaid> if I don't have time before then, I have some time that
afternoon \to work on it.
17:19 < quaid> the meta problem here is that not enough people can fill
the "Publ\ication Editor" role
17:19 < quaid> partially because the knowledge to do that role is not
updated :7
17:19 < EvilBob> Don't forget we have to also work ont he r-n the end of
the week\ also but they should not take much time
17:20 < quaid> ok, I'm not primary on that but I'll back you all up
17:20 < quaid> also, some of you all out there might want to excercise
new XML sk\ills for that
17:20 < quaid> oh, I ran past the first agenda item
17:21 < quaid> any objections or discussion about folding f-dsco-l into
f-docs-l?
17:21 < vnk_fd> back to the original proposal for a sec?
17:21 < quaid> vnk_fd: go ahead
17:21 < vnk_fd> do we need perhaps two 'draft' areas, then
17:21 * quaid puts the 0 item on hold
17:21 < vnk_fd> one for FC7
17:21 < EvilBob> I would like us to wait 6 months before closing that
list, see i\f we can make the list useful, if we can't do that in 6
months fold it up
17:22 < vnk_fd> and the other for incomplete stuff *FC6)
17:23 < quaid> EvilBob: what do you see happening on that list in the
meantime?
17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: at least on thing I think is that I should send
all FDSCo\ agenda, meeting stuff, etc. to f-docs-l at least in parallel
17:24 < EvilBob> quaid: Goes along with what I mentioned earlier about
how we use\ our meetings and lists
17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: is the concern that we bore the regular folks
with boring\ business/
17:24 < quaid> ?
17:24 < quaid> vnk_fd: that is a good question
17:24 < EvilBob> yes
17:25 < quaid> vnk_fd: maybe when we publish, we should do two things:
17:25 < quaid> 1. Copy to Docs/FooGuide
17:25 < quaid> 2. Copy to Docs/Drafts/7/FooGuide
17:25 < quaid> s/7/6/ in this case
17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: so back to the question then, what constitutes
boring bus\iness?
17:26 < EvilBob> the list is open for those that are interested we don't
prevent \list membership on that list really
17:26 * quaid pays for his opening two agenda items at the same time by
handling\ two discussions at the same time.
17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: but what about the obscurity?
17:27 < quaid> that is, I think that most of what is sent to f-dsco-l is
of inter\est to f-docs-l
17:27 < EvilBob> quaid: IMO a lot of the tools and tool chain stuff may
be boring\ to some
17:27 * quaid is appreciating a chance to knock this idea about, since
this is t\he first he is really thinking about it
17:28 < EvilBob> I will let you go back to Item 0, I need to deal with
family stu\ff for a few
17:29 < quaid> ok
17:29 < quaid> I'm willing to not decide yet on that item anyway
17:29 < vnk_fd> ok, then quickly
17:29 < vnk_fd> 1. quaid publishes to Docs/FooGuide
17:30 < vnk_fd> 1. writers do Docs/Drafts/rel.ver./FooGuide
17:31 < vnk_fd> that one should have been 2.
17:33 < quaid> well, sure, anyone can do most of those parts
17:33 < quaid> iirc about the ACLs, that is
17:33 < quaid> vnk_fd: sounds fine
17:34 < quaid> so Docs/Drafts == rawhide
17:34 < quaid> Docs/Drafts/rel.ver. == release branch
17:34 < EvilBob> rawhide == development
17:34 < quaid> oh, foo
17:34 < quaid> :)
17:36 < quaid> are we comfie with rel.ver. == a prime number?
17:36 < quaid> rather than include "FC" "FF" "F*"
17:36 < quaid> in the same way we don't have to say
Docs/FedoraDesktopUserGuide
17:37 < quaid> because Fedora is in the name fedoraproject.org
17:37 < quaid> ?
17:37 < quaid> s/comfie/comfortable/
17:37 * quaid is comfie with that, fwiw
17:37 < vnk_fd> simpler, the better
17:37 < EvilBob> yes
17:37 < EvilBob> less redundancy
17:38 < vnk_fd> that's if you're comfie with 6 as prime number :-)
17:38 < EvilBob> releases will still be numbered once it is Fedora
Freebase
17:38 < quaid> um, I meant
17:39 < quaid> s/prime/whole/
17:39 < quaid> :)
17:39 * quaid is obviously an English Lit major and not a Math major
17:39 < quaid> ok, so be it
17:40 < vnk_fd> ok
17:43 < EvilBob> OK is item 0 covered?
17:43 < vnk_fd> yes
17:44 -!- mspevack_afk [n=mspevack@fedora/mspevack] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:44 < quaid> and item 1
17:44 < EvilBob> quaid: for the record i would like to paste some of my
ideas fro\m our earlier brainstorm
17:45 < quaid> go ahead
17:45 < quaid> what subject?
17:46 < EvilBob> if FDSCo could use it's mailing list more the
"business" meeting\ could be 15-30 minutes and then we shift gears to
work with everyone brainstormi\ng, one on one colab, groups working on
training or what ever is needed it would \make the FDSCo meeting less
important because we talk on list, it would also be m\ore inclusive for
the FDSCo members that are in other time zones would also make \docs in
general more inclusive because we can
17:46 < EvilBob> take what we work on in the "free time" of the
meetings to the \general docs list also
17:47 < EvilBob> Meeting format idea and how it relates to us having two
mailing \lists
17:47 < quaid> ok
17:48 < quaid> to do that people would actually have to respond and
solve busines\s on list
17:48 * quaid looks at the agenda
17:48 < quaid> I can see stuff that would be best to discuss on list
17:49 < quaid> but it seems like its worth keeping on f-docs-l
17:49 < quaid> EvilBob: what constitutes business then?
17:50 < EvilBob> I have not figured that out yet... LOL
17:50 < quaid> heh
17:50 < EvilBob> Tools and Tool chain, can be a bit geeky to
non-programmer types\ for one
17:50 < quaid> well, i do think more on-list discussion would save us on
some sub\jects
17:51 < quaid> hmm
17:51 < quaid> that would beg a separate tools list, not to push that
content to \fdsco list
17:51 < quaid> even then, hmmm
17:51 < EvilBob> I agree, I would think that we start by pushing to
fdsco-list an\d then if right we move out to docs-list
17:52 < quaid> but the toolchain is not a steering committee exclusive
subject
17:52 < EvilBob> some of the development stuff that we talkabout as
fdsco may not\ be of interest to our writers
17:52 < quaid> also, one of our goals is the production of a toolchain,
so we nee\d one location that everyone can get updates about it from.
17:52 < quaid> it is coincidental that most of the toolchain folks are
on FDSCo
17:53 < quaid> but not exclusive
17:53 < EvilBob> Yes I agree
17:53 < quaid> tsekine and glezos for example have contributed to the
discussion,\ on f-docs-l
17:53 < quaid> patches, etc.
17:53 < EvilBob> open the list up so those that are interested in teh
development\ of our tools and tool chain can join
17:53 < quaid> well, I think I'd first want to hear from the general
list that to\ols needs a separate discussion area
17:53 < EvilBob> +1
17:54 < EvilBob> would be a "refocusing" of the fdsco list IMO
17:54 < quaid> well, not really
17:54 < EvilBob> rather than kill that list and start another
17:55 < quaid> I don't agree with pushing tools to that list, personally
17:55 < quaid> it's more confusing
17:55 < quaid> my instinct is to fold into one list and handle it all
there
17:55 < quaid> that the more we spread, the more we lose
17:55 < EvilBob> as long as most of our contributors are OK with that I
will be a\lso
17:56 < quaid> can you ask the question on list? just the general "move
tools or\ leave here" question, not where.
17:56 * quaid doesn't want to overstay his posting for the week
17:56 < EvilBob> Sure i will ask tonight
17:57 < EvilBob> Item 1 closed IMO
17:57 < EvilBob> address again next week based on list input
17:58 < quaid> sure
17:59 < quaid> ok, we've got megacoder and eitch MIA with a couple of
important p\rojects on them
17:59 < quaid> so I'll send email directly to find out what their status
us
17:59 * quaid has been updating
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Steeri
\ngCommittee/TaskSchedule as we're going along
17:59 < quaid> next we can address from there with present company is
the relnote\s update
17:59 < quaid> EvilBob: anything we need to think about there?
18:00 < EvilBob> on the subject of open projects, we have a large number
of items\ on our taskSchedule that are quite old and should ether be
handed off or flat ou\
t killed
18:01 < EvilBob> in the stalled section
18:01 < quaid> stalled == bad press?
18:01 < EvilBob> Evaluate and integrate RPM Guide into Building Packages
Guide as\ an example
18:02 < quaid> well, we can work on that as part of the working meeting
18:02 < EvilBob> tht item was drafted by ignacio and he is completely
MIA, what d\o we do with that draft?
18:03 < EvilBob> he does not answer emails or phone calls, no response
by postal \mail either
18:04 < EvilBob> I was just wondering if we had a policy on orphaned
drafts/docs/\contributions
18:04 < quaid> we don't yet
18:04 < quaid> we could move them to an orphan section of some kind, but
we don't\ want them to disappear
18:06 < EvilBob> there is at least one item on there (stalled section)
that I kno\w I cold out the guys from the unity project to work on
18:06 * quaid finished his edits to
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/St
\eeringCommittee/TaskSchedule
18:06 < EvilBob> s/cold/could
18:06 < quaid> that is, the updates for the day are done there
18:06 < quaid> one second, let me formally wrap up the business
18:06 < EvilBob> sure
18:07 < quaid> I want to move the FLOSS docs summit back to the list for
discussi\on, John and I have proposed two related directions, and that's
where it sits
18:07 < quaid> maybe this is all in his and my mind, I dunno :)
18:07 < EvilBob> are you editing that page?
18:08 < EvilBob> If so can you please fix my WikiName on the release
notes item
18:08 < EvilBob> BobJensen
18:09 < quaid> ok
18:10 < quaid> done
18:10 < EvilBob> thanks
18:12 < BobJensen> Where are we with the moin update and plone
testing/migration?
18:13 < quaid> ok, that was all the agenda items
18:13 < quaid> we can go back to discussing stale stuff
18:13 < quaid> oh, sorry
18:13 < quaid> you are right, there are those items
18:14 < BobJensen> who are the contacts for those items and how much do
we pick a\t the scabs?
18:14 < BobJensen> LOL
18:16 < quaid> ok, on Moin for the docbook and 1.6 stuff
18:16 < quaid> we need someone to help with the Python in Moin Moin and
most like\ly be the maintainer
18:16 < quaid> of that code
18:16 < quaid> for us and for Moin Moin
18:17 < quaid> hmm
18:17 < BobJensen> OK so we need a "help wanted" page on the wiki see if
we can't\ get a snake charmer
18:17 < quaid> I posted to f-infrastructure-;
18:17 < BobJensen> OK
18:17 < quaid> nneed to do the same to f-websites-l
18:17 < quaid> and maybe ask whoever packages it for Fedora
18:18 < quaid> ok, I split the tasks out on the task schedule
18:18 < quaid> the 1.5.6 upgrade is happening already, see the list for
testing r\equest
18:18 < BobJensen> I am going to put an open request out on the Fedora
Unity site\s for a python developer for some stuff we need done there,
maybe we can find som\e one to come over to docs to help also
18:19 < quaid> cool
18:19 < quaid> I posted to f-websites-l
18:20 < quaid> we'll see if that helps, and I'll try to find the
packager from FE
18:20 * quaid doesn't know how to do that
18:20 < BobJensen> I can track that down easy enough, should be on the
owners lis\t
18:21 < BobJensen> When I get the maintainers name I will pass the
contact info o\n to you if you don't find it first
18:23 < quaid> ok, thx
18:23 < BobJensen>
http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/owners/owners.list?root=e
\xtras&view=markup
18:24 < BobJensen> It is Thias from FreshRPMs matthias(a)rpmforge.net
18:26 < quaid> ah, ok
18:26 < quaid> he probably doesn't want to help with the Python, but
we'll ask :)
18:26 < quaid> hmmm
18:26 * quaid ponders filing all this as a bug request :)
18:27 < BobJensen> BZ is many time the best way to reach him I am told
18:28 < quaid> ok, I'll try that
18:29 < BobJensen> Jon "daMaestro" Steffan is the lead packager for Zope
and Plon\e now, He got a python work out over the last week on another
project with me
18:30 < BobJensen> s/packager/packager for Extras
18:31 < BobJensen> I had not looked at my Docs email I now see the email
from pau\lo about the test
18:34 < BobJensen> quaid: need to take a little break here and put the
kids to be\d, will see you in a few
18:34 < quaid> ok, bug filed
18:34 < quaid> ok
18:35 * quaid works on more stuff
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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17 years, 4 months
Re: Re: Administration Guide modules and getting started
by Dimitrios Typaldos
This would be fine. Do I need edit access to subscribe on this?
Dimitri
o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o
pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16
Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C
uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted)
sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16
----- Original Message ----
From: Karsten Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com>
To: For participants of the Documentation Project <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:50:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Administration Guide modules and getting started
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 10:23 -0600, Dan Smith wrote:
> I've already done a rough on dir structure and partitioning so far.
> Just trying to figure the protocol about adding them in. Want to get
> some feedback primarily on the style I'm using for the documentation.
1. Get edit rights
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Getting_Edit_Access
2. Paste the content properly into the correct places in
Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide
3. Post back to the list a request for wider feedback
Be prepared for some or all of the feedback to be visible to all.
> On 12/5/06, Dimitrios Typaldos <dtfedora(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would be interested in contributing on one of the first
> chapter of Docs/Drafts for example
> "Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with
> this choice. Please let me know if that's ok.
Dimitri -- That is good. For the moment, why don't you grab the
Technical Editor role for that section? If the section needs two
writers, you can contribute there, as well.
All -- If you see anything missing from the outline/table of contents,
let's talk about what to add. The writing team has the lead on deciding
on what to keep or not.
- Karsten
--
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17 years, 4 months
Re: request for edit group
by Dimitrios Typaldos
I think that this is the last thing missing from the list in the 'Getting Edit Access' wiki-page.
In case you need to check my account my login is 'dtypald'.
Dimitri
o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o
pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16
Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C
uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted)
sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16
----- Original Message ----
From: SmootherFrOgZ <lxtnow(a)gmail.com>
To: For participants of the Documentation Project <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 12:47:41 AM
Subject: Re: request for edit group
Hi dimitri,
Did you complete all thing including CLA to get your name in the edit group ?
Xavier
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17 years, 4 months
request for edit group
by Dimitrios Typaldos
Is there anyone that could help by introducing my name in the edit group ? My wikiName is DimitriosTypaldos.
Thanks.
Dimitri
o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o
pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16
Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C
uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted)
sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16
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17 years, 4 months
RE: Re: Administration Guide modules and getting started
by Dimitrios Typaldos
Hello,
I would be interested in contributing on one of the first chapter of Docs/Drafts for example
"Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with this choice. Please let me know if that's ok.
Dimitri
o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o
pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16
Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C
uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted)
sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16
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17 years, 4 months
you are invited to the FDSCo meeting
by Karsten Wade
Who is the steering committee that is accountable for this project?
What happens at our meetings? Are you invited to speak up?
Come meet us, be a part of the meeting. Every one of us has a voice, we
simply ask that the agenda[1] be followed during the business section of
the meeting.
Tuesday 05 Dec 2006
1700 PST/2000 EST/0100 UTC (Wed. 06 Dec)
#fedora-docs irc.freenode.net
Right now we are stretching the working part of the meeting to cover a
few hours; this is an ongoing experiment. It is an opportunity to work,
learn, and socialize (on topic) with other members of this content
community.
- Karsten
[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-December/msg00040.html
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Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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17 years, 4 months
Admin guide modules - Managing storage
by Thierry
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Hash: SHA1
Hi everyone,
following up on Karsten's email...
Anybody working on Managing storage already or shall I just go ahead and
put my name against it?
cheers
Thierry
- --
(o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE
//\ http://glossolalie.com
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17 years, 4 months
Administration Guide modules and getting started
by Karsten Wade
The consensus for working on the Fedora Administration Guide is to break
it down into modules. A contributor works on one or more modules. Each
module is one or more chapters in a particular topic area. This is
similar to how Docs/Beats/ turns into the release notes, except it is
conceivable to have multiple chapters in a module.
There are a number of you who have expressed interest in working on this
guide. Congratulations, you are now all on the team. :) Please fill in
this page:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors
Work out amongst yourselves who is going to do what. If you wish, you
can select a lead writer[0]. Each module needs a technical editor and a
wordsmith editor; you can use each other, etc. Use this list for
discussions; we'd all like to see what is going on.[1] When you are
ready, we can create a component in bugzilla.redhat.com for this guide.
That allows you to use bugzilla as a task tracker that is tied into
other parts of Fedora, which continues to be used when the content is
bundled as XML in CVS, and eventually tracks bugs when the content is a
package in F*7.[2]
- Karsten
[0] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Roles/LeadWriter
[1] Anyone who wants to watch this guide get worked on can subscribe to
watch the page changes by:
1. Go to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences
2. At the bottom of the page under 'Subscribed wiki pages (one regex per
line)', put in the regular expression:
Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide.*
3. Click 'Save'
The regexp .* is a wildcard, similar to using * to mean any character
any number of times.
[2] I think you are going to quickly find the limitations of doing a
full-length book in the Wiki. Based on the topic outline I've seen so
far, the high level of experience on the writing team, and the user
need ... there is easily 100 pages of content you can create. Keep that
in mind as you move forward; you can pull the switch and convert to XML
at any time.
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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17 years, 4 months
