docs June 2009

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

50 participants
96 discussions

Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 24 Jun '09

24 Jun '09

REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting. -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks(a)fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks(a)talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1

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kcron
by Adel ESSAFI 23 Jun '09

23 Jun '09

Hi all I have discovered today that the kcron tool has changed in F11. the documentation is not up to date would you that I write a new version of the task scheduler in F11. Regards Adel -- http://ilovefedora.blogspot.com/ -- PhD candidate in Computer Science Address BP 108, Bureau de poste Tunis republique 1001 Tunis Tunisia tel: +216 97 246 706 fax: +216 71 391 166

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How to create a pdf in A5 pagesize from publican
by Kushal Das 23 Jun '09

23 Jun '09

Hi, I am trying to create a pdf in A5 as page size from publican. How can I do this ? I tried to change paper.type to A5 in /usr/share/publican/xsl/pdf.xsl , but the output looks really crappy. Kushal -- http://fedoraproject.org http://kushaldas.in

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Re: How to create a pdf in A5 pagesize from publican
by A. Mani 23 Jun '09

23 Jun '09

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009, Kushal Das <kushaldas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am trying to create a pdf in A5 as page size from publican. How can > I do this ? > I tried to change paper.type to A5 in /usr/share/publican/xsl/pdf.xsl > , but the output looks really crappy. Maybe you need to fine tune everything. Specify 'crappy' http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/PrintOutput.html#PaperSize Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc

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Great Fedora 11 install guide and lots of tips and tricks
by Valent Turkovic 19 Jun '09

19 Jun '09

http://is.gd/164qb Great Fedora 11 install guide and lots of post install tips and tricks -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic

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Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 Summary
by Eric Christensen 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Attendees: ----------- 1. Sparks (132) 2. jjmcd (42) 3. quaid (28) 4. zoglesby (16) 5. perspectival (11) 6. radsy (8) 7. ianweller (7) 8. poelcat (7) 9. nirik (5) 10. rudi (3) 11. kgs (2) 12. uclugLee (1) Summary: --------- * We discussed using the Meeting Bot to help us capture our meeting minutes. Everyone seemed to grasp the commands rather quickly. * We also discussed meeting "symbols" to help the person running the meeting know when you have something to say. This isn't for strict enforcement but rather to help speed the meetings along. * We discussed the recent FAD at Clemson University (post-SELF). Discussions on how to make the F12 release go smoother were a top priority along with what went wrong/right during the F11 release. A list of tasks were voted on for priority setting so we can concentrate on the things that need to happen. We hope to implement as many of the tasks as we can within 60 days. * We also discussed "Docs Decisions for F12". There will be some changes coming down the pipes for F12. * Quaid updated us on the change from OPL to CC-SA-BY licenses for our documents and the wiki. Nothing has really occurred since last week but he will keep us updated as things happen and decisions are made. * We had a request to join a "shared open-source style guide" group. I think this request left us all scratching our heads a bit. Sparks will be following up on this request to determine what exactly the request is for. * We received a CMS update. The CMS (Zikula) is being packaged at this time. Once all the pieces have been packaged a test instance will be stood up before moving it to the live, public environment. * We also touched on wiki page changes. I think ianweller will be working on some of the tools we need to make this happen later this summer. Once we have the tools to do what we need we'll be able to work on the wiki more efficiently. * The calendar was also on our list of topics to cover. While an enterprise solution is being fashioned, poelcat will be generating the release calendars which we will have some input into to customize it for the Docs team. * In the "all other business", Scott (radsy) said that he was working on Squid Caching Proxy portion of the "SELinux Managing Confined Services" guide and provided the link for anyone to look at. The meeting closed at 1:08 UTC.

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[Fwd: Fedora 12 Release Schedule and Goals]
by Eric Christensen 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Looks like a good start for the RNs... -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> Reply-to: sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org, For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base <fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base <fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com>, lwn(a)lwn.net, Ladislav Bodnar <distro(a)distrowatch.com>, editors(a)lxer.com, news(a)phoronix.com, Chris <chris(a)linuxactionshow.com> Subject: Fedora 12 Release Schedule and Goals Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:15:11 +0530 Hi http://news.softpedia.com/news/Fedora-12-Release-Schedule-and-Goals-114542.… The ongoing feature list is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList "This is the official release schedule, but everyone knows that it might change in time, and the final version could be delayed a few weeks. For Fedora 12, the development team will prepare new and exciting features, such as: · GNOME 2.28 desktop environment · KDE 4.3 desktop environment · PolicyKit · IPv6 and system-wide connections support for NetworkManager · liblvm (LVM userspace library) · Empathy (Pidgin replacement) · debuginfo filesystem · Multiseat · Dracut (mkinitrd/nash replacement) · Systemtap Static Probes · OpenOffice 3 · and many more!" Rahul

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Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

20:00 < Sparks> #startmeeting 20:00 < Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 20:00 < fedbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. 20:00 < fedbot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00 < Sparks> #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:01 < radsy> oooh, that's cool 20:01 < Sparks> Roll Call 20:01 * Sparks is here 20:01 * radsy is here 20:02 * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 20:02 -!- perspectival [n=perspect@nat/redhat/x-89dafd55555a2d14] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich@nat/redhat/x-ac59ff8e41efadde] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- rudi [n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 20:03 * rudi is here 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: me too 20:03 < jjmcd> Japanese Game Show? 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:03 < jjmcd> ;-) 20:05 * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 20:05 < Sparks> sure! 20:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's get started... 20:05 < Sparks> #topic Meeting procedures 20:05 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:06 < Sparks> You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06 * quaid is here now 20:06 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:06 < Sparks> To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 20:06 < Sparks> info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be logged in the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. (nicknames are case-sensitive) 20:06 < Sparks> idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot) 20:06 < Sparks> link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 20:06 < Sparks> All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 20:06 * Sparks pauses for any query... 20:06 < quaid> what does the result look like? 20:07 * zoglesby is here 20:07 < quaid> I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 20:07 * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 20:07 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 20:07 < quaid> ah, Ok 20:07 < nirik> output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-1… 20:07 < quaid> so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 20:08 < quaid> ah! 20:08 < Sparks> Hmmm... 20:08 < Sparks> Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 20:08 < quaid> ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 20:09 < nirik> not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 20:09 < nirik> if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 20:09 < Sparks> nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 20:09 < nirik> sounds good. ;) 20:10 < Sparks> Okay... 20:10 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:10 < Sparks> I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time. 20:10 < Sparks> Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 20:10 < Sparks> 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 20:10 < Sparks> 2. If you have a question, type "?" 20:10 < Sparks> 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 20:10 < Sparks> 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 20:10 < Sparks> 5. If you agree, type "+1" 20:11 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 20:11 < quaid> hmmm 20:11 < quaid> I won't say no personally, but 20:11 < quaid> I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 20:11 < quaid> is not the first language spoken of participants. 20:12 < quaid> so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 20:12 < quaid> but it does interrupt flow 20:12 < quaid> <eof> 20:12 < ianweller> +1 20:12 < Sparks> Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 20:13 < radsy> +1 20:13 < ianweller> (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 20:13 < quaid> Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 20:13 < quaid> it's a kindness 20:14 < Sparks> I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are typing something 20:15 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 20:16 < radsy> no 20:16 < rudi> no <eof> 20:16 < jjmcd> ^Z 20:16 < Sparks> #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report 20:16 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:16 < Sparks> We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson. 20:17 < Sparks> Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 20:17 < Sparks> Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 20:17 < Sparks> And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 20:17 < jjmcd> ? 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:18 < jjmcd> Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 20:19 < jjmcd> ! 20:19 < Sparks> Oh I see this going badly 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: yes? 20:19 < jjmcd> We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 20:19 < Sparks> +1 20:20 < jjmcd> eof 20:20 < zoglesby> +1 20:20 < quaid> ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police a bit :) 20:20 < Sparks> Yes... 20:20 < Sparks> I guess that's kinda what I meant. 20:20 < Sparks> quaid: Thank you 20:20 < jjmcd> ! 20:20 < jjmcd> Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 20:20 < Sparks> :) 20:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 20:21 -!- uclugLee [n=Lee(a)75-130-149-037.dhcp-v.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma(a)201.102.115.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21 -!- SMParrish [n=quassel(a)cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 < zoglesby> ? 20:21 < uclugLee> Greetings and salutations. 20:21 < Sparks> Yes Zach 20:22 < zoglesby> Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 20:22 < zoglesby> I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 20:22 < zoglesby> ok 20:22 < zoglesby> eof 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 20:23 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma(a)189.143.130.221] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:23 < Sparks> Anything else for the FAD? 20:24 < Sparks> #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] 20:24 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:24 < Sparks> jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 20:24 < jjmcd> Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 20:25 < jjmcd> We have some new ideas on RN's 20:25 -!- constanton [n=constant(a)athedsl-4503894.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma(a)189.143.130.221] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25 < jjmcd> Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 20:25 < jjmcd> We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 20:26 < jjmcd> Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 20:26 < Sparks> :) 20:26 < rudi> :D 20:26 < jjmcd> Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 20:26 < jjmcd> I think we have some really good plans tho 20:26 < jjmcd> but we need to share them more widely before implementing 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh@fedora/sankarshan] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:27 < jjmcd> Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 20:27 < jjmcd> eof 20:27 < Sparks> URQs? 20:27 < jjmcd> User Requirements 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh@fedora/sankarshan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27 < Sparks> Ahh 20:27 < jjmcd> <---- requirements geek 20:27 < Sparks> I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 20:28 < Sparks> by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 20:28 < Sparks> the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 20:28 < jjmcd> but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes 20:28 < jjmcd> ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 20:29 < Sparks> I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 20:29 < jjmcd> as in the example I pointed to somewhere 20:30 < jjmcd> wait 20:30 < jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs 20:30 < jjmcd> Did everyone get a look at that? 20:30 < jjmcd> highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 20:31 < Sparks> I didn't... Have now 20:31 < jjmcd> reduces translation and increases the data 20:31 -!- joat [n=joat(a)ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:31 < Sparks> Good combinations 20:31 < jjmcd> THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 20:32 < jjmcd> Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 20:32 < jjmcd> Well, program 20:33 < Sparks> Cool 20:33 -!- oget is now known as oget_zzz 20:34 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 20:34 < jjmcd> I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 20:34 * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 20:34 < Sparks> Excellent. 20:34 < Sparks> Okay.... moving on... 20:35 < Sparks> #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 20:35 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:35 < Sparks> quaid: Do you have an update for us? 20:35 < quaid> ok 20:35 < quaid> I may cover what was said last week, but ... 20:35 < quaid> we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 20:36 < quaid> and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 20:36 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-b83d32d96224e123] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:36 < quaid> yes, I do 20:36 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 20:37 < Sparks> ? 20:37 < Sparks> When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 20:37 < quaid> well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 20:37 < quaid> no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 20:37 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 20:38 < quaid> so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 20:38 < Sparks> Okay... At least we are up to date. 20:39 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 20:39 < Sparks> #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] 20:39 < kgs> thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 20:39 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 20:40 < Sparks> but I haven't really had time to look at it... 20:40 < Sparks> so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 20:41 < Sparks> Would anyone like to say anything about it? 20:41 < zoglesby> ? 20:41 < Sparks> Go ahead Zach. 20:41 < zoglesby> I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 20:42 < Sparks> Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 20:42 * jjmcd had similar concerns 20:42 < Sparks> #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 20:43 < zoglesby> eof 20:44 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:44 < jjmcd> I can see some benefit from shared development 20:44 < jjmcd> and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 20:44 < jjmcd> eof 20:45 < Sparks> Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 20:45 < Sparks> I'll try to get more information for next week. 20:45 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:45 < Sparks> #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq 20:45 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:46 < Sparks> Is ke4qqq here tonight? 20:46 < Sparks> I guess not. 20:46 < zoglesby> ? 20:47 < Sparks> So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 20:47 < zoglesby> How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 20:47 < zoglesby> oh i can read! 20:47 -!- kgs [n=kgs(a)c-69-254-162-212.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 20:47 < Sparks> One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 20:48 < ianweller> there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 20:48 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 20:48 < ianweller> just one that isn't approved yet 20:48 < ianweller> unless it's in ForbiddenItems 20:48 * ianweller heads back out 20:48 < Sparks> Yeah... what he said. 20:48 < zoglesby> what was the license? 20:48 < Sparks> CC-BY-SA 2.5 20:49 < Sparks> Which is not compatible with GPL 20:49 < zoglesby> did anyone contact the dev yet? 20:50 < Sparks> This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 20:50 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 20:51 < Sparks> Anyone have any other questions or comments? 20:51 < Sparks> #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 20:51 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:51 < Sparks> Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 20:52 < Sparks> I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 20:52 < Sparks> this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 20:52 < Sparks> loose to do some of our work for us. 20:53 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments? 20:54 < Sparks> #topic Calendar 20:54 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:54 < Sparks> Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 20:55 < Sparks> I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 20:55 < Sparks> until we get our calendaring solution. 20:56 < Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics 20:56 < zoglesby> +1 20:56 < poelcat> easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 20:56 < poelcat> 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 20:56 < poelcat> 2) start date 20:56 < poelcat> 3) how many days it takes 20:56 < poelcat> 4) dependency on other tasks 20:57 < Sparks> Cool! 20:57 < Sparks> anyone have any questions or comments? 20:57 < Sparks> Thanks poelcat 20:57 * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 20:57 < poelcat> will target fri or monday 20:58 < Sparks> poelcat: That will be great. 20:58 < Sparks> #topic All other business 20:58 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:58 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 20:58 < radsy> ! 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Go ahead 20:59 < radsy> #link http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/ht… is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look 20:59 < radsy> eof 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 20:59 < radsy> no 20:59 -!- phunster [n=phunster(a)pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?"] 21:00 < Sparks> Okay, anyone else? 21:00 < perspectival> I think I'll take this time to speak up 21:00 < Sparks> perspectival: Go ahead 21:01 < perspectival> I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 21:01 < perspectival> there is a new branch in svn 21:01 < perspectival> unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 21:02 < quaid> howdy 21:02 < Sparks> perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 21:02 < perspectival> So Greetings! 21:02 < perspectival> the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 21:03 < perspectival> I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 21:03 < perspectival> still figuring out the way forward ;-) 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: No problem! 21:03 < perspectival> I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 21:03 < perspectival> am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 21:04 < perspectival> <eof for now> 21:04 -!- phunster [n=lanny(a)pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:04 < Sparks> Okay. 21:04 < Sparks> Anyone else? 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 21:05 < Sparks> 5 21:06 < Sparks> 4 21:06 < Sparks> 3 21:06 < Sparks> 2 21:06 < Sparks> 1 21:06 < Sparks> #endmeeting 21:06 < fedbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . 21:06 < fedbot> Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-… 21:06 < fedbot> Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-…

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Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

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My thoughts on release documentation
by Adam Williamson 18 Jun '09

18 Jun '09

Hi, guys. So, I mentioned in my introduction email what I wanted to bring up within the docs project context, and I also mentioned this at the F11 post-release recap meeting yesterday. Here's a longer message with my thoughts. There's quite a lot of important information about F11 which needs to be documented somewhere, that's coming to light either late in the release cycle or after the release is made. I can cite multiple examples if needed, but I won't to keep down on length - if anyone is unconvinced of this point please ask, and I will cite chapter and verse. :) At present, it doesn't seem like this is handled very well. There's the Common Bugs page which I'm sort of maintaining and which can easily be updated post-release, but that has a very specific mandate and things which are not actually bugs fall outside of it. Aside from that, things get messy. We end up with multiple, non-canonical sources for this information. Some of it winds up in things like Rahul's FedoraFAQ - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ . Some of it winds up in blog posts - ironically, I can no longer find the pair of posts by one person which would have made perfect release notes entries that I was going to cite as examples here, which is annoying but also perfectly highlights why this isn't a good method :). Some of it winds up in fedora forum sticky threads - http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=223206 . Some of it winds up in little bot-automated notices that the #fedora IRC guys use. It's a mess. This is problematic for two obvious reasons: it detracts from the 'brand' of the canonical release documentation, meaning people take it less seriously because they know it isn't going to cover everything, and of course it makes it a bitch to find all of this information. Looking at some of the previous discussion on this list, it's obvious this has come up before, and people have been talking about ways to address it. There seems to be a focus, however, on ways to try and make sure all the information gets in before the release notes freeze, at which point all bets are off. I'm not sure this is ever going to work; I think that, no matter how great we are are getting as much info as possible in before the freeze, sod's law dictates there's always going to be _something_ that will come up either shortly before release, at release time, or after. Consequently I think the release documentation process needs to be flexible enough to provide a canonical source of release information that can be updated reasonably easily and quickly throughout the release cycle, and afterwards. I see for F12 there seems to be a proposal to split the release notes into two - a shorter, 'greatest hits' page for 'regular users', and the full fat thing for 'advanced users'. Would this be anything like how I handled it for MDV? For MDV there are three main release documents, the Release Notes, Errata (like Common Bugs) and the Release Tour. The Release Tour is a shortish document which simply explains shiny new features - not any problems introduced by changes, really - with lots of screenshots and so on. See the 2009 Tour, for instance - http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.0_Tour . If it's going to be something along those lines, I might suggest that the 'advanced' release notes be done with a kind of dual-track system. We can still freeze the initial contributions to produce a nicely formatted and translated frozen set of release notes at release time. However, we could continue to accept changes to the wiki contribution pages after the freeze date, and pull these together into a quick-and-slightly-dirty 'live' release notes page on the wiki, which could be constantly updateable through the life of a release. Well, that's just an initial thought. The general idea is more important than the implementation details. If we can get something like this in place, I'd hope we'd be able to reach out to all the groups who tend to find stuff that needs documenting - forums, IRC, qa/bugzappers etc - and ask them to consistently document frequently arising issues in this canonical location, so that everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet and the 'cachet' of the canonical documentation is improved. Hope that makes sense :) please do let me know your thoughts on this. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net

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docs June 2009