docs June 2009

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96 discussions

Security Guide available in PDF
by Eric Christensen 05 Jun '09

05 Jun '09

I just created the Security Guide in PDF and posted it to docs.fp.o[1]. Along with the minor changes I made to Feedback.xml earlier today everything should be up at the next sync period. The index page should show HTML (en-US) and PDF (en-US) when everything syncs so you can watch for that. [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/security-guide/ -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks(a)fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1

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Fwd: Re: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle
by Rahul Sundaram 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:57:41 -0400 From: Todd Zullinger <tmz(a)pobox.com> Reply-To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com> To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com> Mike Cloaked wrote: > In the file README-BURNING-ISOS-en_US.txt that is currently being > synced to mirrors it still refers to sha1sum. That's as I would expect, since that advice applies to the current stable release. Hopefully the docs team has an update queued to note the use of sha256sum when F-11 is released.

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[Bug 504070] New: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ
by Red Hat Bugzilla 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504070 Summary: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Just beginning. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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The current state of Zikula
by David Nalley 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

Just to provide a quick sitrep on Zikula: Zikula is packaged, though I don't think that it is currently in a state that infrastructure will find acceptable due to some bundled libs that escaped the initial review. (Thanks to Toshio for pointing this out). I have packaged the libraries that were missing from Fedora's collection, and have an almost working package again. I say almost as there is one library that has some potential licensing issues (upstream thinks that it can just go away) and one of the bundled libs is deprecated and now a php builtin in php5- so I'll likely have to patch source for that. The larger problem is that this issue appears to be pervasive. The module Lukas has up for review [0] has 4 different libraries bundled in it, 3 of which aren't currently in Fedora. (the 4th was one of the packages I had to build to try and deal with this issue for Zikula core). We are likely to find that this happens in all of the modules, and is a larger packaging job than first envisioned. (up from around 8 modules needing packaged to 8 modules and x libraries, where x is almost assuredly 10 or more.) The good news is that we aren't the only ones running into this, and there has been some discussion this morning on the fedora-devel list about how virtually all web applications bundle libraries, and many of them are missing from Fedora and hopefully we can build a list of what we need and work with some of the other packagers who want some web apps included. . We may even be albe to leverage the php-SIG to help with this. The upside is that many of these libraries are relatively low hanging fruit to get your 'packager badge' Here are all of the modules we need for our instance: Content Version 3.0.3 - source tagged in SVN here: http://code.zikula.org/content/browser/tags/version-3.0.3 This is already being worked on by Lukas CoType Version 1.0.0 - download here: http://www.elfisk.dk/index.php?module=Folder&func=view&mode=folder.view&fold erid=52 - the source is probably in SVN somewhere, but not sure where. crpTag I'd take the head: http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/trunk, but just in case it is non functional perhaps we could package 0.1.3 too? http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/tags/crpTag_0.1.3 MediaAttach SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/browser/trunk/MediaAttach mediashare SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediashare/browser/trunk menutree Version 2.0.1: http://code.zikula.org/bianor/browser/tags/menutree/2.0.1 MultiHook SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/multihook/browser/trunk/MultiHook scribite Version 3.1: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/browser/tags/scribite/3.1 Custom Modules (no public source (yet)) ============== FASAuth FedoraDocs Static_Docs Custom Theme (no public source) Simon: If you have source for FASAuth, Static_Docs, and FedoraDocs we need to put that somewhere publicly accessible. I've created a resources request[1] for a git repository to hold these modules, as soon as it is created we can push that up. [0] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 [1] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1439

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Fedora 12 Alpha Release Notes
by Rahul Sundaram 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

Hi I know it is early but this is a short lifecycle and there has already been new features moving forward for Fedora 12, so here is the draft http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes Rahul

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Release Announcement Ready for Translation
by Eric Christensen 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

Just wanted to drop you a note to say that the Release Announcement for Fedora 11[1] is completed and if you guys wanted to try to translate it for your local area... go for it. Paul stresses that you should adapt it as necessary for your area. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks(a)fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1

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Docs Meeting 20090604
by Zach Oglesby 04 Jun '09

04 Jun '09

Here is the log file for June 4, 2009's Docs meeting, summary will be out soon. 02:00 < Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project"> 02:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 02:00 < Sparks> Roll Call! 02:00 * Sparks is here 02:00 * zoglesby is here 02:01 -!- jjmcd [n=jjmcd(a)75-134-169-186.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #Fedora-meeting 02:02 * rudi is here 02:02 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:03 * jjmcd . 02:04 < Sparks> zoglesby: Can you handle the log for tonight? 02:04 < zoglesby> I don't have logs... 02:05 < zoglesby> I can scroll and copy and paste 02:05 < zoglesby> unless someone can tell me how to log in irssi real fast 02:05 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk 02:06 -!- adamw [n=AdamW@redhat/adamw] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06 < Sparks> zoglesby: No, that's how you do it, I think. 02:06 < Sparks> Anyone else for the Docs Meeting? 02:06 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:06 < zoglesby> Sparks: I can do it then 02:07 * Sparks wonders where everyone is tonight. 02:08 < jjmcd> Watching the Wings? 02:08 < Sparks> Maybe... 02:08 < Sparks> Well, let's get started.. 02:08 * stickster is sorry he's late 02:08 < stickster> I can handle logs if needed. 02:09 < Sparks> stickster: Be a backup... I think zoglesby needs to practice... :) 02:09 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - [[FAD SELF 2009]] <-- ke4qqq 02:09 < zoglesby> ill do it, but I thought irssi had a log function 02:09 * stickster is apparently at the mercy of LAG 02:09 < stickster> Will do 02:09 < Sparks> Well... I don't know where ke4qqq is but I'll talk a little about FAD. 02:09 < stickster> It does, IIRC 02:10 < Sparks> SELF @ Clemson on Jun 13. The day after we will have a Docs FAD. 02:10 < stickster> /RAWLOG open <filename> 02:10 < Sparks> We will be looking heavily at F12 processes and how to improve them. 02:11 < stickster> Yay! 02:11 < Sparks> If you plan on attending please sign up at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF_2009 02:11 * stickster will be there too, flight is not until ~5:30 or 6:00pm 02:11 < Sparks> Cool 02:11 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about SELF or the FAD? 02:11 < zoglesby> is there going to be a conf call number? 02:12 < jjmcd> 2008? 02:12 < Sparks> Yeah, I think so 02:12 * ke4qqq is here 02:12 < ke4qqq> but late 02:12 -!- adamw [n=AdamW(a)S010600226b8aa2ea.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:12 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Anything to add? 02:12 -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:13 < stickster> Who's responsible for setting up the call stuff? 02:13 < stickster> i.e. hardare 02:13 < ke4qqq> nothing here - you covered most of it 02:13 < stickster> *hardware, even 02:13 < ke4qqq> stickster: I am 02:13 < stickster> Do you need anything that I can help provide? 02:13 < ke4qqq> ianweller is also bringing his 02:13 < ke4qqq> yourself 02:13 < ke4qqq> and that's it 02:13 < stickster> :-) done! 02:13 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 02:14 < ke4qqq> eof from me 02:14 < Sparks> ke4qqq: I'm assuming you'll send out an email or put something on the wiki about how to remotely attend. 02:14 < ke4qqq> yeah I need to remmeber the conf number for docs 02:15 < ke4qqq> but yes we'll do that 02:15 < Sparks> 2008 02:15 -!- jsmith [n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:15 < ke4qqq> in the next day or so 02:15 < Sparks> Cool 02:15 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:15 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 02:15 < Sparks> Last week we started discussing changing our licensing from OPL to CC-BY-SA. 02:15 < Sparks> I don't think quaid is with us tonight, though, so I don't know what the status is. 02:16 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about the change? 02:16 < stickster> Were we waiting for something to be resolved regarding compatibility with internal RH teams? 02:16 < Sparks> kinda 02:16 * stickster not sure what quaid is meant to answer, and would be happy to send some email around to check on stuff 02:17 < Sparks> I think we were waiting to make sure everything was okay 02:17 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:17 < Sparks> quaid said he was going to run with it within the RH community. 02:17 < ke4qqq> I think we were also waiting on which specific version of cc-by-sa RH Legal was going to bless 02:17 < stickster> k 02:17 < stickster> Yeah, I'm sure there was some further Legal review required in there. 02:18 < Sparks> yeah... okay, anything else? 02:18 * stickster stands back and lets everyone do their thang 02:18 < Sparks> okay, moving on... 02:18 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd 02:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: So what's the status on the RN? 02:18 < jjmcd> We got an update today I think, still need to check more to be sure it isn't there in different words 02:18 < jjmcd> but all on docs.fp.o 02:19 < Sparks> excellent. 02:19 < jjmcd> If change only en-US will make it to docs.fp.o for release 02:19 < Sparks> Yeah, I saw the update come through earlier. 02:19 < jjmcd> but rest will get through on an update 02:19 < jjmcd> we are now in a position where we can easily produce an update rpm 02:19 < Sparks> Have you already pushed the RPM up? 02:19 < jjmcd> from like a week ago 02:20 < stickster> That's the standard GA one, right? 02:20 < stickster> 11.0.0-2? 02:20 < jjmcd> Yeah 02:20 < jjmcd> 11.0.1 I thinlk 02:20 < jjmcd> 11.0.1 I think 02:20 < stickster> Ooo 02:20 < stickster> That's the zero day? Includes L10n? 02:20 < jjmcd> yes 02:20 < stickster> Wow, bonzer 02:20 < jjmcd> but if we have a REAL zero day 02:21 < jjmcd> I've also been working on linking to reduce space 02:21 < jjmcd> Recognized some odd things with yelp, still not sure whats going on there 02:21 < jjmcd> yelp documentation seems to be lacking 02:22 < jjmcd> We're not seeing icons in note, tip, etc 02:22 < jjmcd> But that appears to be yelp's to do, all we do is say, e.g. <tip> 02:22 < stickster> jjmcd: You and I probably need to collaborate on that so I can help you keep your hair 02:23 < jjmcd> Works fine on 10, not on 11. But I'm not 100% certain that I've found all of yelp's tentacles 02:23 < jjmcd> stickster, sounds like a plan 02:23 < Sparks> jjmcd: Anything else? 02:23 < jjmcd> No 02:23 < Sparks> anyone? 02:23 -!- Cheshirc [n=Sam@unaffiliated/cheshirc] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:24 < zodbot> Announcement from my owner (stickster): FESCo nominee town hall meeting at 0200 UTC (~100 minutes from now) -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls 02:24 < stickster> Me realizes "need" is a lot of assumption, maybe "could" is better :-) 02:24 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24 < jjmcd> '-) 02:24 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:24 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Announcement <-- Sparks 02:24 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:24 < Sparks> Thanks to everyone who helped out with the Announcement. 02:25 < Sparks> It has been tweaked, pounded, deleted, restored, and edited. 02:25 < Sparks> I think we are done with it. :) There are links to the RNs and to the Installation Guide at the bottom so it's good for us. 02:25 < jjmcd> I just wish you guys could hear George Dobbs, G3RJV, talk. 02:25 < Sparks> jjmcd: Freq? 02:25 -!- joat [n=joat(a)ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:25 < jjmcd> He's a British minister and sounds just like that 02:25 < Sparks> :) 02:26 < jjmcd> FDIM ;-) 02:26 < joat> whew! 02:26 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions or comments on the Announcement? 02:26 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:27 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq & rudi 02:27 < stickster> Did anyone let the translators know that they could run with it and abandon the top part at will? 02:27 * stickster can't remember whether he remembered to fire something off on that or not. 02:27 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi(a)pool-96-252-14-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:27 < Sparks> Ummm... not from this office 02:27 < jsmith> I thought it was at the list... 02:27 -!- ldimaggi_ is now known as ldimaggi_home 02:27 < jsmith> s/at the/on the/ 02:27 < jjmcd> I thouhgt I saw something on l10n 02:27 < rudi> stickster 02:27 * stickster is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest and doesn't recall 02:28 < rudi> Ooops - I see you were commenting on the last topic, NM 02:28 < rudi> Install Guide is in translation - Italian now nearly complete 02:29 < jjmcd> rudi, thanks for helping Claudia 02:29 < rudi> Whole stack of changes and revisions to make after release :) 02:29 < stickster> Sparks: I don't see it on fedora-trans-list, could you send something out? 02:29 < rudi> jjmcd - NP. I like to lie in wait for new translators ;) 02:29 < Sparks> stickster: yeah, I will 02:29 < stickster> disco 02:30 * stickster notes that the top part is only (barely, arguably) funny in English and translators are free to come up with their own material. 02:30 < Sparks> rudi and ke4qqq: Can we get the final draft of HTML and PDFs up on docs.fp.o no later than Sunday? 02:30 < rudi> Sparks - NP 02:31 < rudi> Already good to go. 02:31 < Sparks> rudi: Cool. When you figure out where the PDF is going please let Admin know so they can add it to the cache list. 02:31 < Sparks> rudi: Excellent. 02:31 < rudi> NP 02:31 < Sparks> Okay, anything else for the Installation Guide? 02:32 < rudi> Nope :) 02:32 < stickster> Thank you for working on that, guys 02:33 < Sparks> Okay... Now I need to bring up a topic that... well, is a little scary. 02:33 < Sparks> If you are sensitive to that kind of stuff, you should look away. 02:33 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Fedora 12... Only 152 days to GA... <-- Sparks 02:33 < Sparks> Yes... Only 152 days until Fedora 12 is released. 02:33 < Sparks> and yes, we need to be looking at this now. 02:34 * jjmcd thought he cold wait until FUDcon to kick off F12 RN's 02:34 < stickster> Yay F12! Last key on the keyboard! 02:34 < Sparks> jjmcd: Actually the RNs for F12 are already started! 02:34 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch(a)cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:34 < jjmcd> Yeah I saw that 02:34 < Sparks> stickster: What happens with F13? Are we skipping it for superstitious reasons? 02:35 < stickster> Nope, it's going to be named either "Keating" or "Eamon" 02:35 < rudi> Sparks - the USAF did :) 02:35 < stickster> Wait, that might not work. 02:35 < jjmcd> That will certainly be cornfusing on IRC 02:35 < stickster> Oops, I forgot about the whole voting thing :-) 02:35 < Sparks> stickster: Oh we can make that happen. 02:35 < rudi> How about F13 Stealth :) 02:36 < stickster> When f13's IRC starts buzzing him 24/7 I'm going to laugh, and laugh... 02:36 < Sparks> Oh that is good... 02:36 < Sparks> Yeah, he's going to have to change 02:36 < zoglesby> Sparks: what would you like to mention about this? Or just trying to wake us up and get ready? 02:36 < stickster> I remember when he was a different nick, we'll see if he goes back to it. More deponent sayeth not. 02:36 < jjmcd> I figured maybe that was his retirement release 02:37 < Sparks> So here's the real scary part... 02:37 < Sparks> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-summary-tasks.html 02:37 < Sparks> And here are things I want to work on... 02:37 < Sparks> Docs_decisions_for_F12 <-- we'll be working on this during FAD and we'll have answers then 02:38 < Sparks> The Release Notes will be done in Publican 02:38 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 02:38 < jjmcd> uitstekend! 02:38 < Sparks> as well as all the guides... 02:38 < Sparks> Okay, you can stop laughing now... I know we've said that every release for the past few... but I'm serious now... kinda 02:38 -!- collier_s [n=collier_(a)cpe-70-112-140-13.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:39 < Sparks> Release Notes will be done early and will be available by Oct 15 (not including zero-day) <-- this one is for jjmcd 02:39 < jjmcd> With no alpha, are beta rn's going to be in n languages 02:39 < Sparks> We are going to have to get this stuff squared away. We got "lucky" by F11 being pushed. 02:40 * stickster thinks it's vital that the team center on one toolset. 02:40 < Sparks> And not just us... folks were still providing changes. 02:40 < Sparks> not good 02:40 < Sparks> stickster: yes! 02:40 < Sparks> There will be no zero-day changes 02:40 < Sparks> Okay... maybe this is wishful thinking... 02:41 < Sparks> but we had way too many changes that seemed to trickle in 02:41 < jjmcd> And I think we are just about there. Didn't someone have the f-d-u stuff ported, just waiting to push? 02:41 < Sparks> we need to get folks on the ball with this. Cattle prod or something. 02:41 < zoglesby> jjmcd: I think so 02:41 < jjmcd> Sparks, well, having ticklers on the schedule for notes to the lists will help 02:41 < zoglesby> Rlandmann did them 02:41 < Sparks> yes... and that will be something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes. 02:41 < jjmcd> That figures - that guy don't sleep 02:41 < Sparks> Translation issues must be taken into consideration 02:42 < Sparks> We had complaints from the translation teams and I understand their frustration. We need to work with them on how to not make things harder for them. 02:42 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-be1f7bcbcd369df9] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:42 < jjmcd> Sparks, I think we need to be a lot more proactive on communicating to fedora-trans-list 02:43 < jjmcd> as well as restructuring rn's 02:43 -!- neverho0d [n=psv(a)62.68.142.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43 < Sparks> And finally... All guides, other than Installation Guide, should be in Publican and be pushed to docs.fp.o in HTML and PDF formats and should be packaged. 02:43 < zoglesby> this is all stuff thats going to be hammered out at FAD right? 02:44 < stickster> jjmcd: +1. 02:44 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes! 02:44 < stickster> A lot of it is just sending periodic emails, a few times a week, and anytime you want to change something. 02:44 < stickster> (during the freeze, that is) 02:44 < stickster> And more, it really should be soliciting opinions and getting +/-1 from the L10n community. 02:45 < Sparks> stickster: And thank them a lot! They are doing a tough job. 02:45 < stickster> no kidding 02:45 < stickster> I don't know how they do it. Seriously. 02:45 < jjmcd> zoglesby, I am expecting you guys to work hard rather than spending all your time eating fried chicken and greens 02:45 < stickster> mmmffwha-huh? 02:45 * jjmcd won't be at SELF :-( 02:45 < Sparks> fried chicken??? Where? 02:45 < stickster> If there is not some <expletive> good fried chicken in my belly on Sunday I will be an unhappy camper. 02:46 < stickster> Or BBQ. 02:46 < zoglesby> jjmcd: I will not be there, to much money to fly from spain 02:46 < stickster> I can be flexible. 02:46 < Sparks> stickster: You can't get good BBQ over there... 02:46 < Sparks> you have to go east of I-95 in NC 02:46 < jjmcd> I was looking forward to ke4qqq's en-SC.po tho 02:46 * Sparks is hoping to stop by Gaffney, though. 02:47 < stickster> jjmcd: heh 02:47 < stickster> OK -- back to Sparks' last comment about packaging 02:47 < stickster> I like the idea of dropping the whole yelp/OMF thing and going with simple, installable HTML that appears as a menu entry 02:48 < stickster> But we can hash this out at SELF I guess :-) 02:48 < rudi> +1 for HTML; which will be more KDE-friendly too 02:48 < jjmcd> I like the UI for yelp, the html is kind of a secret, altho a menu would help 02:48 < rudi> (or KDE-friendly at all, in fact ;) 02:49 < Sparks> +1 02:49 * jjmcd hadn't considered KDE 02:49 < jjmcd> od XFCE 02:49 < stickster> rudi: Interestingly, I had a special KDE khelpcenter installation handled in fedora-doc-utils (originally docs-common) 02:49 < jjmcd> s/od/or 02:49 < rudi> jjmcd - nobody ever does :( 02:49 < stickster> But I couldn't get anyone to help me make sure I was Doing It Right 02:49 < rudi> No dirty GNOME on my machines! :) 02:49 < stickster> /KICKBAN rudi 02:50 < stickster> You'll have to forgive him, he lives in the upside down part of the world 02:50 < rudi> lolz 02:50 * stickster apologetically lets Sparks get on with it 02:51 < Sparks> No... I did that for one reason... spark discussion! 02:51 < zoglesby> stickster: you are mighty off topic today... 02:51 < jjmcd> Do we want to package pdf? And why not pdf instead of xml? 02:51 < jjmcd> errr html 02:51 < zoglesby> I think the pdf looks better 02:51 < Sparks> pdf is great for portable... html is better for searching via google or such 02:52 < Sparks> So I'd rather have... both! 02:52 < stickster> HTML is also more searchable from a variety of indexing utilities the person may be using 02:52 < stickster> Two copies seems wasteful to me. 02:52 < jjmcd> I guess they should be packaged separately 02:52 < zoglesby> stickster: good point I don't use indexing tools 02:52 < stickster> Nothing wrong with that 02:53 * stickster points to diveintopython-* RPMs as examples 02:54 < jjmcd> Still, 1428 seems like a lot of rpms 02:54 < Sparks> Well... just note that we aren't going to have much down time for the F12 release. 02:54 -!- Netsplit bartol.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ivazquez, davej, so_solid_moo 02:54 < stickster> jjmcd: wha-huh? 02:54 < jjmcd> 17 docs * 42 langs * 2 formats 02:54 < stickster> Ugh. 02:54 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ivazquez, so_solid_moo, davej 02:54 < Sparks> but we can continue this conversation on F12 in coming weeks 02:55 < Sparks> Wow... That's a lot of packages 02:55 < stickster> jjmcd: I could see packaging all langs together 02:55 < Sparks> should we have them approved separately? 02:55 < stickster> *choke* 02:55 < jjmcd> Docs needs to grow some packagers 02:56 < zoglesby> I am slowly learning 02:56 < stickster> There is a special RPM variable that lets you drop locales; if you guys got with the RPM developers you might be able to work something out the same way with documentation RPMs. 02:56 < Sparks> Yeah, I think we are going to work on that @ Clemson 02:56 < zoglesby> but its all been haskeel stuff 02:56 < rudi> packaging all langs together would make for some big packages :) IIRC, over 100MB for the Install Guide 02:56 < stickster> You guys know that /usr/share/locale has the translated messages for everything you install, right? 02:57 < stickster> There are ways to silently drop out all the locales except your current one when you install a RPM package 02:57 < stickster> Cuts down on disk space when it's tight. 02:57 < stickster> Actually, the more I think about it.... 02:58 < stickster> I think that we ought to concentrate on establishing a presence where people can manually install the documentation RPM they want. 02:58 < stickster> PackageKit makes it drop-dead easy point-and-click. 02:58 < jjmcd> exactly 02:58 < stickster> We do *not* want to put 1428 more RPMs in Fedora. 02:58 < stickster> That's just silly. 02:58 -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58 < stickster> As always, this is just my $0.02 02:59 < stickster> I would think that we should put real muscle during the next 30 days after release into getting Zikula off the ground. 02:59 -!- neverho0d [n=psv(a)62.68.142.31] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:59 < Sparks> Yes! 02:59 < stickster> And one of the purposes that could serve would be to house the new docs.fp.o 02:59 < stickster> Including "pretty-fied" access to the new docs RPMs. 03:00 < stickster> There are a number of other things people want out of the Zikula CMS 03:00 < jjmcd> That would be way cool 03:00 < stickster> But none of it's going to happen unless we make it happen. 03:00 < stickster> Our current web publishing sucks rocks. 03:00 < jjmcd> I didn't say that 03:00 < stickster> haha 03:01 < stickster> It was "good enough" (for some value thereof) for Fedora Core 3, but this community has come a *long* way since then. 03:01 < stickster> We've got to have something that is easier to run, easier to administer, and easier to understand. 03:01 < zoglesby> are we still wating on packages or testing? 03:02 < Sparks> I think some parts are still waiting to be packaged 03:02 < stickster> ke4qqq: Any insight here? 03:02 < stickster> Can we make it a point *before* SELF to establish what's left to be done, and try and do as much as possible of it there, after the decision tasks? 03:03 -!- jwb__ [n=jwboyer(a)24-247-191-219.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:03 < Sparks> Yeah, I'll get with ke4qqq and get a list 03:03 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer@fedora/jwb] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:04 -!- jwb__ is now known as jwb 03:04 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on these topics? 03:04 * stickster is really hot to get *something* off the ground so we can get to work on this 03:04 < zoglesby> indeed 03:05 < stickster> I installed it on my local box and tried it out, it was pretty easy to run and I was thoroughly impressed. 03:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's move on to the last few topics. 03:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes 03:05 < Sparks> I sent an email out to the list earlier today. 03:06 < Sparks> It contains a list of all the components of Docs in BZ 03:06 < jjmcd> wits a lot of docs which would be really cool to have 03:06 < Sparks> At next week's meeting we'll figure out which ones to dump. 03:06 -!- mchua [n=mchua(a)rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:06 < jjmcd> Sparks, I smell an opportunity 03:06 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes and this is a good time to pull those out, dust them off, and get some of our new members involved. 03:07 < jjmcd> exactly 03:07 * mchua apologizes for tardiness 03:07 < stickster> mchua!!!!1!! 03:07 < zoglesby> what bug do you speak of? 03:07 < jjmcd> It can be pretty low pressure but with a lot of flexibility 03:07 < Sparks> zoglesby: Not a bug... the components that break out the docs on BZ 03:08 < zoglesby> I think i found the email 03:08 < jjmcd> BZ = military speak for Bugzilla, but you knew that 03:08 * zoglesby looks at my pants 03:08 < zoglesby> still in the military... 03:08 < jjmcd> AF might not talk the same as the Navy tho 03:09 < Sparks> zoglesby: I didn't realize the AF was still considered a military group. 03:09 < zoglesby> nope I don't go to the head 03:09 < zoglesby> I am not going to defend them... 03:10 < Sparks> okay, I'm not harrassing my AF buddies now 03:10 < jjmcd> Why do I get the feeling that zoglesby ain't gonna be a lifer 03:10 < Sparks> SO, who NEEDS/WANTS a BZ component for their project? 03:10 < zoglesby> I do 03:10 -!- cyberpea1 [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10 < zoglesby> I have been working on readme-burning-isos to make it foss only 03:11 * Sparks thought that was already in BZ 03:11 < jjmcd> I think there is a component for that 03:11 < Sparks> zoglesby: I can assign it to you. 03:12 < rudi> zoglesby - when you're done with those, can you shoot me the updated verson so I can incorporate it into my Publicanized version of the doc? 03:12 < stickster> zoglesby: Hang on, did you mean you're *removing* instructions for how people can use their existing proprietary software to try, and switch to, Fedora? 03:12 < rudi> (Heh... or not...) 03:12 < zoglesby> nero and such are not parts of windows 03:12 < jjmcd> stickster, I think a lot of what was there was old stuff 03:13 < zoglesby> and you cant include every application out there 03:13 < stickster> zoglesby: You're absolutely right, but Nero is also shipped with a *ton* of hardware by default 03:13 -!- cyberpear [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:13 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13 < stickster> zoglesby: Can you include a single section for "Other software," where you try to make instructions that are generic enough to work for most other apps that people can't get for free? 03:14 < stickster> Many people will have pre-installed software from OEMs and we don't want to leave them out in the cold 03:14 < zoglesby> we talked about this before in #docs but we can talk about it again there after this 03:14 < rudi> True - it's rare to see a Windows box out there *without* Nero or Sonic on it... 03:14 < jjmcd> Of course, with newer versions of Windows you don't need that stuff anymore, and I'm not so sure I've seen it with any recent drives 03:14 < stickster> ok, we don't need to derail here 03:14 * stickster & 03:14 < stickster> jjmcd: good point 03:14 * stickster is happy as long as we can cover whatever comes free with other big-market-share OS 03:15 < Sparks> zoglesby: Would you like tickets for that to go to you? 03:15 < stickster> and some appropriate free aps 03:15 < stickster> *apps 03:15 < zoglesby> indeed 03:15 < zoglesby> to both of you... 03:15 < Sparks> Okay... 03:16 < Sparks> zoglesby: Do you have an editor? 03:16 -!- kulll [n=kulll(a)203.82.79.101] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:16 < zoglesby> an editor? like emacs? or a person? 03:17 < Sparks> a person 03:17 < Sparks> If not... I'll put myself as QA 03:17 < zoglesby> not that I know of 03:17 < Sparks> ok 03:17 < stickster> yay Emacs! 03:17 < Sparks> We haven't done that in a while. 03:18 * Sparks is proud of stickster for standing up for Emacs on FLOSS Weekly 03:18 < Sparks> :) 03:18 < zoglesby> indeed again 03:18 < zoglesby> emacs comes up a lot of that show 03:18 < Sparks> okay... anything else on the BZ stuff? 03:19 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf(a)124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:19 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Calendar 03:19 < Sparks> Okay... I want a calendar. 03:19 < zoglesby> me to 03:20 < Sparks> I'm thinking about just posting a ical file, or something like that, to docs.fp.o and giving everyone read access. 03:20 < Sparks> Would that be helpful? 03:20 < Sparks> It would be the Docs calendar... helpful reminders of deadlines, meetings, events, etc. 03:20 < zoglesby> works for me 03:21 < zoglesby> but ideally something with controlled write access would be nice 03:21 < jjmcd> Why not in git so anyone can maintain it 03:21 < stickster> eventually to be subsumed by Zikula also :-) 03:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: We could. I'm trying to come up with a solution 03:21 < Sparks> Zikula has a calendaring function... 03:22 < jjmcd> If Zikula is doing it for us, then maybe a wiki page in the interim 03:22 < Sparks> jjmcd: The only problem with a wiki page is that it won't incorporate into a calendar I automatically stare at daily 03:23 * Sparks thinks this would be a similar problem 03:23 < Sparks> I mean, there are already release calendars out there that I forget to look at. 03:23 < stickster> don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 03:23 < stickster> An iCal on a site is a start 03:23 < stickster> and can probably be imported to Zikula later 03:24 < Sparks> Any other ideas? 03:24 < zoglesby> buy google and open source google apps? 03:25 < stickster> heh 03:25 < jjmcd> google calendar sucks swanp water 03:25 < Sparks> Whose to say it isn't open source... has anyone asked? 03:25 < stickster> It's not 03:25 * Sparks likes google calendar 03:25 < stickster> The API is open, that's it. 03:25 < Sparks> Okay... so I'm going to work on an iCal and attempt to figure out the best way of doing it 03:26 -!- mchua_ [n=mchua@nat/redhat/x-9303b86521641bc4] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:26 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:26 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 03:26 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - New Guide - Where's the source? 03:26 -!- mchua [n=mchua(a)rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:27 < Sparks> To help people get to our source files I want to build a small guide that helps point people to where they can obtain source files. 03:28 -!- mchua_ is now known as mchua 03:28 < Sparks> It's on the wiki right now. If anyone would like to adopt this and move it into Publican please let me knwo. 03:28 < Sparks> It would be an excellent project for a new member 03:28 * stickster wonders if Publican may not be necessary for this one, since the need for formal publication is probably pretty low 03:29 < Sparks> stickster: My want was to get it on docs.fp.o 03:29 < zoglesby> keep it on the wiki? 03:29 < stickster> Yes 03:29 < Sparks> But it could be kept on the wiki... it's just easier to get buried there 03:29 < stickster> Because the wiki is more or less the center for development efforts 03:29 < Sparks> and forgotten 03:29 < stickster> We could solve that with clever linking though :-) 03:30 < stickster> Essentially, no document on the wiki is important unless you do that. 03:30 < stickster> What makes wiki documents *not* forgotten is that you refer to it often :-) 03:30 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:30 * stickster notes that there is a landing target he just found on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development 03:30 < stickster> I'd *totally* link to this new "Get the Source, Luke" page from there. 03:31 < Sparks> Cool 03:31 < stickster> that [[Development]] page is also linked from here: 03:31 < stickster> http://redhat.com/developers/ 03:31 < Sparks> I'm good with keeping it on the wiki as long as it stays visable 03:32 < stickster> I think if you publicize its existence, you won't have any problems with that ;-) 03:32 < Sparks> Cool 03:32 < stickster> Plenty of people will start linking to it, blogging, etc. 03:32 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 03:32 < stickster> It's so obvious, it's a wonder we don't have it yet! 03:32 < zoglesby> and if we are wrong we move it later 03:32 < stickster> Sure, nothing's written in stone in the end. 03:33 < stickster> I just think moving things to Publican makes them less likely to be contributed to by people outside this group 03:33 < Sparks> stickster: yeah, it just hit me the other day... It's almost like you were speaking to me on a subconscious level 03:33 < stickster> That's OK for formal docs that need intense scrutiny 03:33 < Sparks> Okay, let's keep it on the wiki 03:33 < Sparks> and do some linking 03:34 < zoglesby> it would be helpful for other to add stuff, we are bound to forget someones project 03:34 * Sparks makes a note to blog about it 03:35 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-dinner 03:36 < Sparks> anything else on this? 03:36 < Sparks> okay... last thing 03:36 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Go over task table 03:37 < Sparks> I want to make this task table more comprehensive and complete. 03:37 < Sparks> right now we have task lists and tables all over the place and they aren't being updated 03:37 < Sparks> Please take a look at the table and update it if you have something on there. 03:37 -!- cyberpear [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions? 03:38 -!- comraderaikov [n=sseierse(a)pool-173-64-93-105.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:39 < Sparks> Okay, does anyone have anything else about anything? 03:39 < stickster> heh 03:39 < mchua> Sparks: I'm also trying (now that I've read through a BZ tutorial) the "what if we used the BZ project-tracking component" experiment 03:40 < mchua> on the theory that it may be easier to keep up with one bz instance than with N separate wiki tables (either that or I'll just form the habit of actually using bookmarks) 03:40 < Sparks> That's an idea 03:40 < mchua> and was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the notion (do people not like keeping tasks in bz? have wikitables worked really, really well before?) 03:41 < Sparks> Maybe if we turned "nag" on in BZ it would be better. 03:42 < mchua> what would that do? autoemail you when tickets update? 03:43 < Sparks> I think it emails you weekly with tasks that you have open 03:43 < mchua> Ooh. Handy. 03:43 < Sparks> Yeah 03:44 * stickster wonders who gets lined up against the wall and shot first when every Red Hat engineer sees 328 new BZ emails every Monday morning 03:44 < stickster> Thankfully, I'm remote. But there are a lot of people in the Westford office that I like, and would miss! 03:44 < Sparks> stickster: I think it's a summary if I remember correctly 03:44 < stickster> o_O 03:45 < stickster> Can such a feature be opt-in? 03:45 < Sparks> I think you get a single email, weekly, with a list of your current tickets 03:45 < Sparks> I don't remember 03:46 < stickster> mchua: I'm in favor of simplify 03:46 < stickster> See right there? I could have typed "simplicity" but "simplify" was SHORTER. 03:46 < zoglesby> lol 03:47 < stickster> Historically we had a tough time getting Docs people to dig BZ 03:47 < stickster> But this is a very different Docs group these days. 03:47 < ricky> If you're thinking bugzilla for task tracking, have you looked at trac? 03:47 < stickster> ricky: I think the idea was that if other people are already filing docs bugs in BZ, what about tracking there too. 03:47 < zoglesby> we have a trac instance for every doc on fh.o 03:48 < stickster> Yeah, and that could be disabled and people diverted to BZ if we like 03:48 < ricky> Ah. Is the trac instance usually linked from the doc? 03:48 < stickster> Not yet 03:49 * mchua notes that based on http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.20/html/whining.html and http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/groups.html, it seems like people can opt-in to bz whining. attempting now. 03:50 -!- kulll [n=kulll(a)203.82.91.101] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:50 < Sparks> mchua: Let's finish this conversation over in #fedora-docs 03:50 * mchua nods 03:50 < Sparks> Okay, anything else before we spill over into hour three? 03:51 < Sparks> 5 03:51 < Sparks> 4 03:51 < Sparks> 3 03:51 < Sparks> 2 03:51 < Sparks> 1 03:51 < Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! 03:51 < Sparks> </meeting> -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby

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Task Table
by Eric Christensen 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

I know we haven't looked at the Task Table[1] lately but I want to clean it up and clean it out tonight. If you know you have a task on the table please update it before today's meeting, please. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_cont… Thanks, Eric

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Today's Meeting Agenda
by Eric Christensen 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

I've updated today's meeting agenda[1]. I've added quite a few items to include discussion on F12. Please look over the agenda before tonight's meeting and if you have your name on a topic go ahead and prepare a status. We have a lot to go over tonight and I'm hoping to get F12 off on the right foot. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_June_4.2C_200… Thanks, Eric

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Introduction
by Lee Brewer 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

Good morning. My name is Lee Brewer and I've been a Fedora user since version 7 when I was at Nuvox. I met David Nalley and a recent UCLUG.org meeting and after talking with him for a while he asked if I would be interested in joining the docs team. I currently work for the imaging division of Sharp Electronics and would loke to work on printing in a Linux environment, which I myself have struggled with on occasion. What I'm hoping to get out of this is to show as many people as possible how easy it is to move from Micro$oft to Linux. ______________________ ~Lee sent using Fedora(10) Linux Evolution email Smoothwall firewall

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docs June 2009