After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess what work needs to be done with our toolchain:
1. Fix lingering problems 2. Make enhancements for usability 3. Integrate publican 4. Other?
Can we set up a weekly meeting on IRC Freenode (#fedora-docs) on a weeknight (Sunday-Thursday) so that we can involve the Red Hat Docs people in Brisbane? I've been doing a weekly phone call with that group, but this would be a good way to move that conversation into community space where it rightly belongs. Relaying messages is really inefficient, and this gives the Docs team at Red Hat a good introduction to our toolchain, and lets them participate in integrating publican. This would be equivalent to the way the rest of Red Hat's engineers and developers work with the community and would lead to renewed bonds and teamwork.
I'll obviously participate since I have pretty good knowledge of our tools, but that knowledge needs to leave my head and get into a lot of others. Mainly that's because I'm no longer able to spend the time on this work that it deserves.
Who's up for helping? I promise if I can learn this stuff, you can too. It would be great to see some other contributors besides the people already carrying substantial load. If you can run shell commands, you can understand our tool set.
On Friday 04 April 2008 01:03:08 pm Paul W. Frields wrote:
After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess what work needs to be done with our toolchain:
- Fix lingering problems
- Make enhancements for usability
- Integrate publican
- Other?
4. Make sure any changes integrate well with L10N Toolchain 5. Others?
Can we set up a weekly meeting on IRC Freenode (#fedora-docs) on a weeknight (Sunday-Thursday) so that we can involve the Red Hat Docs people in Brisbane? I've been doing a weekly phone call with that group, but this would be a good way to move that conversation into community space where it rightly belongs. Relaying messages is really inefficient, and this gives the Docs team at Red Hat a good introduction to our toolchain, and lets them participate in integrating publican. This would be equivalent to the way the rest of Red Hat's engineers and developers work with the community and would lead to renewed bonds and teamwork.
I'll obviously participate since I have pretty good knowledge of our tools, but that knowledge needs to leave my head and get into a lot of others. Mainly that's because I'm no longer able to spend the time on this work that it deserves.
Who's up for helping? I promise if I can learn this stuff, you can too. It would be great to see some other contributors besides the people already carrying substantial load. If you can run shell commands, you can understand our tool set.
I'll be there representing the L10N side of things, provided the meeting is at a reasonable time of day :)
cheers, asgeir
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 15:49 +1000, Asgeir Frimannsson wrote:
On Friday 04 April 2008 01:03:08 pm Paul W. Frields wrote:
After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess what work needs to be done with our toolchain:
- Fix lingering problems
- Make enhancements for usability
- Integrate publican
- Other?
- Make sure any changes integrate well with L10N Toolchain
- Others?
Excellent, thank you! :-)
Can we set up a weekly meeting on IRC Freenode (#fedora-docs) on a weeknight (Sunday-Thursday) so that we can involve the Red Hat Docs people in Brisbane? I've been doing a weekly phone call with that group, but this would be a good way to move that conversation into community space where it rightly belongs. Relaying messages is really inefficient, and this gives the Docs team at Red Hat a good introduction to our toolchain, and lets them participate in integrating publican. This would be equivalent to the way the rest of Red Hat's engineers and developers work with the community and would lead to renewed bonds and teamwork.
I'll obviously participate since I have pretty good knowledge of our tools, but that knowledge needs to leave my head and get into a lot of others. Mainly that's because I'm no longer able to spend the time on this work that it deserves.
Who's up for helping? I promise if I can learn this stuff, you can too. It would be great to see some other contributors besides the people already carrying substantial load. If you can run shell commands, you can understand our tool set.
I'll be there representing the L10N side of things, provided the meeting is at a reasonable time of day :)
Yes, I want the meeting to happen on a weenight after 2300 UTC (7:00pm US/Eastern, 4:00pm US/Pacific) so that we can make sure you folks in Brisbane can be involved -- Brisbane is UTC +10 for those who don't know.
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 23:03 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Can we set up a weekly meeting on IRC Freenode (#fedora-docs) on a weeknight (Sunday-Thursday) so that we can involve the Red Hat Docs people in Brisbane?
+1 to Thursday evening (Friday UTC). If it's the others, I may not be available until after 0400 UTC. We need to find a time that doesn't put the meeting in the middle of or near children's bedtimes on the US East or West Coasts. That sounds like 2000 EDT(?)/Midnight UTC, and 2100 PDT/0400 UTC. So, something around 1800 P/2100 E/0100 U/1100 Brisbane?
- Karsten
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 23:03 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess what work needs to be done with our toolchain:
I'd love to be part of this group... and if my luck holds out, I'll actually be home that week instead of on the road as I previously thought.
Can we set up a weekly meeting on IRC Freenode (#fedora-docs) on a weeknight (Sunday-Thursday) so that we can involve the Red Hat Docs people in Brisbane?
Sounds good to me.
-Jared
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Jared Smith jaredsmith@jaredsmith.net wrote:
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 23:03 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess what work needs to be done with our toolchain:
I don't know how much input you want, but I'll see what I can do to make it and put in my two cents. I spent a bit of time the other night learning publican from Jared Smith (thanks man!) and would like to see where it leads me.
Cheers,
Clint
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 10:28 -0600, Clint Savage wrote:
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Jared Smith jaredsmith@jaredsmith.net wrote: On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 23:03 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of > 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess > what work needs to be done with our toolchain:I don't know how much input you want, but I'll see what I can do to make it and put in my two cents. I spent a bit of time the other night learning publican from Jared Smith (thanks man!) and would like to see where it leads me.
Absolutely, the more the merrier. The time sounds good to me. Just to reiterate, this would be:
Fri 09 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Thu 08 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Hopefully our Red Hat Docs subscribers on this list can let us know if there's any hangups with that time.
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 00:51 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 10:28 -0600, Clint Savage wrote:
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Jared Smith jaredsmith@jaredsmith.net wrote: On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 23:03 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> After the dust settles from the Fedora 9 release, around the week of > 5th-9th May, we should try and set up a Docs toolchain group to assess > what work needs to be done with our toolchain:I don't know how much input you want, but I'll see what I can do to make it and put in my two cents. I spent a bit of time the other night learning publican from Jared Smith (thanks man!) and would like to see where it leads me.
Absolutely, the more the merrier. The time sounds good to me. Just to reiterate, this would be:
Fri 09 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Thu 08 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Hopefully our Red Hat Docs subscribers on this list can let us know if there's any hangups with that time.
I would make the point about date and time issues that people consider who should be there and who shouldn't.
I mean if the average docs user should be present maybe change the day to a weekend if we can. 11am on Friday would mean I would be at work so I can't be there. If I don't need to be there then it's all good :)
Cheers,
Marc
P.S. I'm back from my business trip so expect DuG posts incoming.
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 09:59 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
I would make the point about date and time issues that people consider who should be there and who shouldn't.
I mean if the average docs user should be present maybe change the day to a weekend if we can. 11am on Friday would mean I would be at work so I can't be there. If I don't need to be there then it's all good :)
This is a good point to consider for those of us paid by RHT to be present at the meeting. When we have meetings scheduled to happen during business hours, we unconsciously exclude the non-@redhat.com folks.
In the end, we all get inconvenienced to some degree. My default over the years has been to take the inconvenience on myself and others who are here because of their $dayjob.[1]
Sadly, this is actually the hardest with folks in Oz. Business hours in the States are almost exactly the opposite of those in Australia, so either people in the US have to attend during "work hours", or vice-versa.
Options:
* Hold two meetings: - one that lands in Aus/Singapore/other APAC working hours but is after hours in the US/EMEA - one that lands in the before/after hours for APAC but is in the work-hours for the US/EMEA
* Seek a 'perfect time' for each meeting using a time matrix
- Karsten [1] Easier and less risky than teaching people to tunnel IRC over ports 80 or 42
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 07:54 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 09:59 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
I would make the point about date and time issues that people consider who should be there and who shouldn't.
I mean if the average docs user should be present maybe change the day to a weekend if we can. 11am on Friday would mean I would be at work so I can't be there. If I don't need to be there then it's all good :)
This is a good point to consider for those of us paid by RHT to be present at the meeting. When we have meetings scheduled to happen during business hours, we unconsciously exclude the non-@redhat.com folks.
In the end, we all get inconvenienced to some degree. My default over the years has been to take the inconvenience on myself and others who are here because of their $dayjob.[1]
Sadly, this is actually the hardest with folks in Oz. Business hours in the States are almost exactly the opposite of those in Australia, so either people in the US have to attend during "work hours", or vice-versa.
Options:
- Hold two meetings:
- one that lands in Aus/Singapore/other APAC working hours but is
after hours in the US/EMEA
- one that lands in the before/after hours for APAC but is in the
work-hours for the US/EMEA
- Seek a 'perfect time' for each meeting using a time matrix
- Karsten
[1] Easier and less risky than teaching people to tunnel IRC over ports 80 or 42
I'm willing to meet during or after hours, but the real problem, as you said, is that people in Oz or other APAC are going to be hard pressed to meet at anytime that's "after hours" for Europe. The fact that IRC and the list make it easy to follow up on the conversation mitigate that problem quite a bit.
I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for them. So, a new primary meet time could be:
Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Anyone?
Paul W. Frields 쓴 글:
I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for them. So, a new primary meet time could be:
Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Anyone?
Folks in Brisbane told me that they can't make it during the day on Saturday and I understand nobody wants to be working on the weekend. Can we make it on Weekdays instead? Friday 11am would be better than Saturday 11am.
Thanks, Michelle
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 15:34 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote:
Paul W. Frields 쓴 글:
I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for them. So, a new primary meet time could be:
Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Anyone?
Folks in Brisbane told me that they can't make it during the day on Saturday and I understand nobody wants to be working on the weekend. Can we make it on Weekdays instead? Friday 11am would be better than Saturday 11am.
I am fine with a Friday (BNE)/Thursday (US) time. I don't think this is really an "average docs user" conference, because we're going to be talking about how the Makefile internals work and what technical issues need to be resolved to integrate Publican into our Docs toolchain (along with l10n issues). People who aren't experienced in how all that works will probably glean just as much from the logs, which of course we can post here per usual.
That's just my opinion... suggestions?
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 12:41 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 15:34 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote:
Paul W. Frields 쓴 글:
I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for them. So, a new primary meet time could be:
Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Anyone?
Folks in Brisbane told me that they can't make it during the day on Saturday and I understand nobody wants to be working on the weekend. Can we make it on Weekdays instead? Friday 11am would be better than Saturday 11am.
I am fine with a Friday (BNE)/Thursday (US) time.
I guess we'll go for whatever gets the most essential people here. I'd suggest Sunday/Monday, since so many of the US and EMEA based Docs folks have been kind enough to meet on Sundays before, but that leaves out the folks in APAC who cannot meet during 9-to-5 work hours. (Sorry Marc :( )
As I said before, I can do Thursday as long as it is late enough in the day Pacific Time.
- Karsten
are we still having the docs toolchain IRC meeting as we discussed?
It seems finding the good time for everyone can be a challenge, and now we have publican-list set up, it might be easier to discuss things on the mailing list. But if anyone prefer having a regular IRC chat to discuss docs toolchain and publican, I am all up for helding weekly or bi weekly IRC meeting. Please let me know.
Cheers Michelle
Paul W. Frields 쓴 글:
On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 15:34 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote:
Paul W. Frields 쓴 글:
I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for them. So, a new primary meet time could be:
Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT
Anyone?
Folks in Brisbane told me that they can't make it during the day on Saturday and I understand nobody wants to be working on the weekend. Can we make it on Weekdays instead? Friday 11am would be better than Saturday 11am.
I am fine with a Friday (BNE)/Thursday (US) time. I don't think this is really an "average docs user" conference, because we're going to be talking about how the Makefile internals work and what technical issues need to be resolved to integrate Publican into our Docs toolchain (along with l10n issues). People who aren't experienced in how all that works will probably glean just as much from the logs, which of course we can post here per usual.
That's just my opinion... suggestions?
On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 10:10 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote:
are we still having the docs toolchain IRC meeting as we discussed?
It seems finding the good time for everyone can be a challenge, and now we have publican-list set up, it might be easier to discuss things on the mailing list. But if anyone prefer having a regular IRC chat to discuss docs toolchain and publican, I am all up for helding weekly or bi weekly IRC meeting. Please let me know.
Michelle, I'm sorry about the scheduling -- with the F9 release slipping until Tuesday 13-May, I completely forgot to slip this meeting. I think the idea was to look at the Docs Project toolchain with the following goals in mind:
1. Fix lingering problems 2. Make enhancements for usability 3. Integrate publican 4. Other?
Let's see if we can reschedule this for: Friday 23 May 0100 UTC / 11:00 Brisbane = Thursday 22 May 9:00pm US/Eastern / 6:00pm US/Pacific
(I would have taken the 16th/15th, but I seem to have a prior engagement then.)
-
Asgeir Frimannsson -
Clint Savage -
Jared Smith -
Karsten Wade -
Marc Wiriadisastra -
Michelle Kim -
Paul W. Frields