EPEL Steering Committee Log

* Reminder new time Monday's at 15:00 UTC

Todos: * stahnma will deliver a perl report * quaid will work on the process of new packages in RHEL vs EPEL * quaid will keep us updated on the status of branding/marketing ideas working internally with RH Marketing and Branding * stahnma will start filing bugs against packages with broken deps in EPEL

[10:04] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines". [10:04] <stahnma> Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting? [10:04] * quaid is a present KarstenWAde [10:04] <SmootherFrOgZ> stahnma: you take the lead [10:04] <SmootherFrOgZ> ? [10:05] <stahnma> ok [10:05] <quaid> yeah, looks like no smooge today [10:05] <stahnma> wow, our wiki page looks like poo [10:05] <stahnma> it could use some love [10:06] <quaid> put {{needs love}} at the top of the page :) [10:06] <stahnma> is there a template for that? [10:06] <stahnma> that'd be nice [10:06] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Status Reports: Current build system | all | need to make a page... help?". [10:06] * SmootherFrOgZ will have to leave in about 35min [10:06] <quaid> yes, that's a current template [10:07] <stahnma> anybody have any updates on the build system? [10:07] <quaid> but really, it's us who need to figure that one out [10:08] <stahnma> if not, I'll move on [10:08] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Status Reports: Package pushes -- knurd". [10:08] <stahnma> knurd: we have moved to the 1st of the month for both releases correct? [10:08] <stahnma> does anybody have objections, or comments about this? [10:09] --> jeffperry_fedora has joined this channel (n=jperry@146-115-228-134.c3-0.frm-ubr1.sbo-frm.ma.cable.rcn.com). [10:09] * stahnma taps the mic, is this thing on? [10:10] * quaid makes a terrible feedback noise [10:10] * Jeff_S peeks in [10:10] --> wolfy has joined this channel (n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy). [10:10] <stahnma> ok, I'll move on [10:11] <quaid> ok [10:11] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Package Reports: What is waiting for what? | all | need to make a page... help?". [10:11] * quaid notes https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule needs some love, too [10:11] <stahnma> I'll be honest, I don't know exactly what this means [10:11] <stahnma> the topic [10:11] <SmootherFrOgZ> quaid: indeed [10:11] <stahnma> quaid: that was where I added the {{needs love}} [10:11] * jeffperry_fedora is peeking as well...just curious [10:11] <stahnma> Are there any critical packages still not built in EPEL? [10:12] <stahnma> or anything in particular anybody is waiting on? [10:12] <stahnma> I know I get happy everytime I see perl modules added [10:12] <quaid> heh [10:12] <quaid> I often mention perl packages when introducing EPEL [10:12] <stahnma> I'd like to get a report of how many perl packages we have in fedora vs EPEL... [10:12] <stahnma> quaid: that was my number 1 time saver of epel [10:13] <stahnma> I could probably make said report [10:13] * stahnma will try to send something to the list [10:13] <stahnma> just as an FYI [10:13] <quaid> there continues to be a ton of interest on the Java side, and that has a lot of road still to travel [10:13] <stahnma> agreed. Fedora/EPEL can travel that road together [10:14] <stahnma> there are a lot of unanswered questions there [10:14] <stahnma> moving on? [10:14] <quaid> I'll start covering that a bit more on http://developer.redhatmagazine.com/ [10:14] * quaid wonders if "unstable EPEL" is on this agenda, or has the list settled that well enough? [10:14] --> tibbs has joined this channel (n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs). [10:14] <stahnma> I thought it would come up during free discussion [10:15] * Jeff_S looks around for who is serving the coffee [10:16] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Package Reports: Orphans in EPEL | all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc". [10:16] <stahnma> are there orphans? [10:16] <stahnma> to me the biggest problem seems to be with RH added packages into RHEL and us not quite finding out about it until it's too late [10:16] <stahnma> which I guess is the opposite of orphans [10:16] <stahnma> it's like unplanned siblings [10:16] <Jeff_S> custody battle? [10:17] <quaid> spot is supposed to alert EPEL SCo about that now [10:17] <Jeff_S> I haven't seen much talk about orphans -- anyone else? [10:17] <quaid> that process arose after that last RHEL update [10:17] <spot> i'm supposed to do what? [10:18] <quaid> spot: tell EPEL when packages are brought in to a RHEL update [10:18] <quaid> (from EPEL) [10:18] <Jeff_S> quaid: that was andy gospodarek who said he'd try to alert us [10:18] --> gregdek has joined this channel (n=gdk@nat/redhat/x-33c66440fec0cb5a). [10:18] <spot> quaid: i can certainly forward information from the beta and final releases [10:19] <spot> but those package lists aren't exactly secret [10:19] <Jeff_S> spot: that would be helpful [10:19] <quaid> spot: what do you think is the best way to alert EPEL earliest in the update process that packages are going to be sucked up in to RHEL from EPEL? [10:19] * knurd is back now; sorry, was in the kitchen [10:20] <spot> i don't know what the best way would be, i'm not tied into the RHEL 4/5 process tightly enough to give the super-heads-up [10:20] <spot> i think the best I can do is to pass on the beta package list [10:20] <stahnma> if we find out s early as possible (like at the Beta timeframe) it's probably ok [10:20] <quaid> spot: can you find the right person in releng to add alerting epel-devel-list to their process? [10:21] <spot> hehehehe [10:21] <spot> quaid: you should ask f13 to help there [10:21] * quaid fears this laugh [10:21] <-- giallu has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [10:21] <quaid> f13: question from five lines up ... [10:22] <Jeff_S> if we have a list we can compare against to see what is added/removed, that would help avoid some headaches [10:22] * nirik is back around for a few again. [10:22] <f13> quaid: I'm not releng for that, so I would punt to mikem and dgregor internally [10:22] <quaid> agreed, but you'd figure ... well, that someone knows they are pulling the packages from EPEL and can just alert [10:23] <stahnma> yeah, we'll have to work with rel-eng and RH proper on this [10:23] <quaid> f13: that's McCune? [10:23] <Jeff_S> shouldn't be hard for them, they just likely never thought about it before... [10:24] <quaid> ok [10:24] <f13> quaid: no, Mike McLean [10:24] <quaid> I'll send them email [10:24] <quaid> f13: thanks [10:24] <f13> stahnma: a big problem is that releng definitely isn't going to know immediately that "this came from EPEL" [10:24] <wwoods> that's mikem23 [10:24] <f13> stahnma: most often we just get a ticket that asks us to create a branch for them for a package, and that's it. [10:25] <f13> it's really up to the developer asking for the package to note that it came from EPEL [10:25] <quaid> oh, interesting [10:26] <stahnma> well, I guess we'd like it if came from EPEL [10:26] <stahnma> but, either way [10:26] <quaid> ok, I'll ask them to help us figure out a process then [10:26] <stahnma> ok moving on? [10:27] <quaid> ok [10:27] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Marketing Reports: | all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc". [10:27] <stahnma> anybody got anything to add here? [10:28] <quaid> I think so ... [10:28] <quaid> good time to talk about branding? [10:28] <nirik> stahnma: thats the 'who's joined, new packages' reports? or something else? [10:29] * quaid waits a second to be sure ... [10:30] <stahnma> could be [10:30] <stahnma> or maybe some formal marketing [10:30] <quaid> ok, then I'll go on with a branding discussion starter, if no one minds. [10:31] <quaid> so ... I won't be as blunt as gregdek, but the brand "EPEL" is ... difficult [10:31] * nirik nods, go ahead [10:31] <quaid> i. acronyms for names suck [10:31] <quaid> ii. how do you pronounce it? (cf. smooge and I "arguing" at FUDCon) [10:31] <quaid> iii. decode before understanding == bad [10:31] <quaid> so [10:31] <stahnma> I wondered that too [10:32] <-- wolfy has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [10:32] <quaid> this ties in to the fact that [10:32] <stahnma> so we need a new name/brand? [10:32] <nirik> I really don't care what the name is... I'm fine with whatever [10:32] <-- fraggle_ has left this server ("-ENOBRAIN"). [10:32] <quaid> gregdek and I are working with the Red Hat Exchange (RHX) folks about getting more and more ISVs in to Fedora, with EPEL being a prime interest area [10:32] <quaid> so we are working on some materials to take to OSCON ... [10:32] <nirik> we just couldn't come up with anything aside from EPEL... so we went with that [10:32] <quaid> and wondered if there is time to come up with a new name? [10:32] <quaid> nirik: +1 that was the right thing for us to do [10:33] --> JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@p4FDD23D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [10:33] <quaid> and now that RHT branding folks are around to help, we can go back and do a naming exercise [10:33] <quaid> cf. Fedora Nightlife, Spacewalk, and others of recent vintage. [10:33] <nirik> sounds great to me... go for it. [10:33] <quaid> awesome :) [10:33] <stahnma> yeah, quaid keep us posted on that [10:33] <quaid> will do! [10:34] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Standing Issues: EPEL-announce list | all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc". [10:34] * stahnma just moves topics....maybe too quickly [10:34] <stahnma> oh well [10:34] <-- che has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [10:35] <nirik> I like the idea of an announce list... [10:35] <stahnma> I like the idea of an announce-list, but I don't know if it would really add value to most users [10:35] <stahnma> most RHEL users don't use mailing lists [10:35] <stahnma> or IRC [10:35] <stahnma> or belong to the Fedora community [10:35] <stahnma> at least, that's my observation [10:35] <stahnma> I mean, I guess it would help, because somebody could point them to it. [10:36] <nirik> yeah, but at least we would have a place to point peopel [10:36] <stahnma> but I don't know if people would just jump on [10:36] <stahnma> i know most sysadmins already complain about too much mail [10:36] <stahnma> but, I think having it is probably a good idea [10:36] <stahnma> make it moderated? [10:36] <quaid> +1 moderated [10:37] <nirik> yes, +1 moderated. [10:37] <nirik> and very low traffic. [10:37] <quaid> what if we offer to subscribe nahant-list and $RHEL5_name-list to the announce list? [10:37] <nirik> not even sure we would want new push announcements there... or just serious breakage stuff. [10:38] --> fraggle_ has joined this channel (n=fraggle@bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net). [10:38] <stahnma> I would say probably breakage [10:38] <stahnma> and maybe big stack updates or something [10:39] <stahnma> something that could potentially have a huge impact [10:39] <nirik> yeah, that sounds reasonable to me. [10:39] <stahnma> so do we request a list from mmcgrath, or somewhere at RH ? [10:39] <nirik> stahnma: infrastructure ticket I think... [10:39] <stahnma> ok [10:39] <stahnma> nirik: you want to take that one? [10:39] <nirik> do we want it to be a @redhat.com? or a fedoraproject one? [10:40] <nirik> sure, I can do that. [10:40] <stahnma> hmm [10:40] <stahnma> what gives it more credability for RHEL users? [10:40] * stahnma personally would rather it be fedoraproject [10:40] <nirik> althought... perhaps we wait until the branding is done? so we don't have to try and rename 'epel-announce' to something else? [10:40] <-- balor has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [10:40] <stahnma> good point [10:40] <stahnma> we hold? [10:41] <-- kital has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [10:41] <nirik> yeah, lets revisit next week... [10:41] <nirik> quaid: when might branding discussion happen? soon? [10:41] <quaid> yeah, just revisit week by week [10:41] <SmootherFrOgZ> i would say an @fedoraproject; it's a fedora projet [10:41] <stahnma> ok, we'll move on [10:41] *** You set the channel topic to "EPEL SIG Meeting | Free discussion around EPEL". [10:41] <quaid> nirik: ASAP; I'm going to try to get John Adams on f-epel-d-l right away to lead the discussion with us. [10:41] <knurd> is there anything you guys need me for? [10:41] * knurd has to leave now [10:42] * nirik also has to go here asap... need to move my car out of the way so some people can get out. [10:42] * SmootherFrOgZ is leaving too [10:42] <-- SmootherFrOgZ has left this server ("leaving"). [10:42] <stahnma> hmm [10:42] <stahnma> free discussion means exit ;) [10:43] <stahnma> so has the stable vs unstable been resolved? [10:43] <stahnma> should we bring it up next time? [10:43] --> mdomsch has joined this channel (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com). [10:43] <nirik> if you like... I personally like the way it is now. [10:43] <knurd> nirik, +1 [10:43] <stahnma> me too [10:43] <knurd> we have enought work and things on the todo list already [10:43] * nirik goes to move car... back on from the road in a while. [10:44] <stahnma> ok, I'll leave it on the agenda for one more disucssion [10:44] <stahnma> but, it's probably squashed [10:44] * knurd now afk [10:44] <knurd> have fun [10:44] <stahnma> ok, anybody from the floor or peanut gallery have anything? [10:44] <schlobinux> it would be nice to get the unresolved deps cleared from testing and testing cleared [10:44] <stahnma> schlobinux: yes, it would [10:45] <schlobinux> maybe bugs needs to be filed to get more attention from the owners [10:45] <stahnma> we've been working on that some, but not as much as we should have [10:45] <stahnma> schlobinux: +1 [10:45] <schlobinux> (but even a bug is not enough sometime) [10:45] <schlobinux> the rt3 package still suffer from the git bug [10:45] <-- mbacovsk_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [10:45] <stahnma> well, I can start by filing some bugs [10:46] <stahnma> it can't hurt [10:46] <jwb> what git bug? [10:46] <schlobinux> jwb: missing cvsps dep [10:46] <schlobinux> lemme dig out the bug number [10:47] <stahnma> hmm, I have git installing fine on EL5 at least.... [10:47] <schlobinux> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=453333 [10:47] <buggbot> Bug 453333: low, low, ---, Chris Wright, NEW , git-cvs requires cvsps which is not available in EPEL [10:47] <stahnma> oh, git-cvs [10:47] <jwb> so rt3 requires git-cvs? [10:47] <jwb> or? [10:48] <schlobinux> this is not really harmful in itself, but the git packages cannot be moved out of testing [10:48] <jwb> are the ACLs open on git? [10:49] <schlobinux> the git packages in testing are fixing a bug that impacts rt3 [10:50] <-- sdziallas has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [10:50] <schlobinux> yes, ACLs are open [10:50] --> sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2D697.dip.t-dialin.net). [10:51] <jwb> feel free to fix it then. i don't even have plague setup and it think jbowes is particularly busy right now [10:51] <schlobinux> I'm not sure if the proper fix is to remove the dep or to build cvsps for EPEL [10:51] <jwb> remove the dep [10:51] <schlobinux> ok, fine by me, will do [10:51] <jwb> i think the same was done for git-arch a while back [10:52] <stahnma> any other discussion? [10:52] * stahnma will close the meeting in 20 [10:52] <jwb> how is the koji for epel progress coming? [10:52] <jwb> (sorry if you covered that already) [10:52] <stahnma> we didn't have many updates [10:53] <stahnma> (or any) [10:53] <stahnma> I think it will improve in the near future [10:53] <jwb> cool [10:54] <stahnma> -- MARK -- Meeting end [10:54] *** You set the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule".