10:06 p.m.
The Spin SIG meeting was held today and this has a couple of impacts on
the games spin.
For the alpha release it was decided to keep the iso's under 4 GiB. This
will be looked at again before the beta. I took a look at package sizes
and I either needed to get rid of one large game or many other non-game
packages. And at this point removing one game seems like a better option.
The game I have selected to remove for the alpha (pending my spin compose
test coming in under 4 GiB) is openarena. Of the large games it seemed
to be the one that was similar to other games and hence most expendable.
Spins will now not be features. I need to create a spin page with a slightly
different format and move over all of my data from the feature page. This
won't be done tonight, but I will send another update when it is complete
that includes the new URL.
I plan to continue testing livecd-creator patches to allow larger spins
to make sure this feature is in place and provides an option for larger
spins.
I am still having problems with X on F11, which limits the amount of testing
I can do.
2:39 a.m.
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
The Spin SIG meeting was held today and this has a couple of impacts
on
the games spin.
For the alpha release it was decided to keep the iso's under 4 GiB. This
will be looked at again before the beta. I took a look at package sizes
and I either needed to get rid of one large game or many other non-game
packages. And at this point removing one game seems like a better option.
The game I have selected to remove for the alpha (pending my spin compose
test coming in under 4 GiB) is openarena. Of the large games it seemed
to be the one that was similar to other games and hence most expendable.
Openarena is one of the few truly free and open source 3D shooters on
relatively recent engine. It is also quite popular. Which ones are you
comparing it too?
Rahul
6:21 a.m.
Battle of Wesnoth
FlightGear
Hedgewar
Tremulous
Alien Arena
You can see some games in DJL. Is an app about news and release of
lots linux games.
2009/1/20, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>:
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> The Spin SIG meeting was held today and this has a couple of impacts on
> the games spin.
>
> For the alpha release it was decided to keep the iso's under 4 GiB. This
> will be looked at again before the beta. I took a look at package sizes
> and I either needed to get rid of one large game or many other non-game
> packages. And at this point removing one game seems like a better option.
> The game I have selected to remove for the alpha (pending my spin compose
> test coming in under 4 GiB) is openarena. Of the large games it seemed
> to be the one that was similar to other games and hence most expendable.
Openarena is one of the few truly free and open source 3D shooters on
relatively recent engine. It is also quite popular. Which ones are you
comparing it too?
Rahul
_______________________________________________
Fedora-games-list mailing list
Fedora-games-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
9:20 a.m.
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 14:09:12 +0530,
Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> The Spin SIG meeting was held today and this has a couple of impacts on
> the games spin.
>
> For the alpha release it was decided to keep the iso's under 4 GiB. This
> will be looked at again before the beta. I took a look at package sizes
> and I either needed to get rid of one large game or many other non-game
> packages. And at this point removing one game seems like a better option.
> The game I have selected to remove for the alpha (pending my spin compose
> test coming in under 4 GiB) is openarena. Of the large games it seemed
> to be the one that was similar to other games and hence most expendable.
Openarena is one of the few truly free and open source 3D shooters on
relatively recent engine. It is also quite popular. Which ones are you
comparing it too?
I needed to drop about 160 MB from the iso. I got a list of the installed
rpms and sorted them by size. Everything above about 10 or 20 MB was a
game or a dependency of a game. Trying to remove stuff that wasn't a game
but pulled in as part of the desktop was going to require removing at least
10 packages and whatever depended on them. Most likely it would have ended
up being many smaller packages. Of the top games in size it appeared to
be less unique than some others. I also had the option to remove several
smaller games, but that also seemed like a bad option.
I don't have the sorted package list handy, but I'll look at sending out
the top part of the list so people can comment on it.
I think a better approach is convincing the Spins SIG that the benefit of
being able to go to 4.7 GB as more important than the cost of going over
4 GiB.
6:16 p.m.
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
I needed to drop about 160 MB from the iso. I got a list of the
installed
rpms and sorted them by size. Everything above about 10 or 20 MB was a
game or a dependency of a game. Trying to remove stuff that wasn't a game
but pulled in as part of the desktop was going to require removing at least
10 packages and whatever depended on them. Most likely it would have ended
up being many smaller packages. Of the top games in size it appeared to
be less unique than some others. I also had the option to remove several
smaller games, but that also seemed like a bad option.
Not sure if it helps, but revisor allows for reporting the sizes of the
packages used; --report-sizes
Bear in mind though livecd-tools is used for the official compose, and
naturally there's a difference in how revisor or livecd-tools composes
the media.
-Jeroen
3:28 a.m.
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
The Spin SIG meeting was held today and this has a couple of impacts
on
the games spin.
For the alpha release it was decided to keep the iso's under 4 GiB. This
will be looked at again before the beta. I took a look at package sizes
and I either needed to get rid of one large game or many other non-game
packages. And at this point removing one game seems like a better option.
The game I have selected to remove for the alpha (pending my spin compose
test coming in under 4 GiB) is openarena. Of the large games it seemed
to be the one that was similar to other games and hence most expendable.
A new version of livecd-tools was built yesterday, 021-1, and it has the
patch for supporting UDF in it.
Spins will now not be features. I need to create a spin page with a
slightly
different format and move over all of my data from the feature page. This
won't be done tonight, but I will send another update when it is complete
that includes the new URL.
I plan to continue testing livecd-creator patches to allow larger spins
to make sure this feature is in place and provides an option for larger
spins.
I am still having problems with X on F11, which limits the amount of testing
I can do.
(side-note)
This can be a dependency for the Games Spin, as obviously most games
need X to work properly.
(/side-note)
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
9:28 a.m.
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:28:58 +0100,
Jeroen van Meeuwen <kanarip(a)kanarip.com> wrote:
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
A new version of livecd-tools was built yesterday, 021-1, and it has
the
patch for supporting UDF in it.
Thanks, I look for it. I have been testing stuff in the git repo, but
koji is easier.
> I am still having problems with X on F11, which limits the amount
of testing
> I can do.
>
This can be a dependency for the Games Spin, as obviously most games
need X to work properly.
This is probably somewhat specific to my hardware otherwise there would
be a lot of screaming. Airlie is pretty busy right now with his new kid,
though he did do an F10 kernel build with graphics related changes last
night, and old ATI hardware isn't his highest priority.
Mostly I have been working on testing the builds and getting bugs that
block building and that affect games reported.
It would be nice to have people here try out the alpha spin when it is ready
and file bugs about problems. You can cc me in the bugs to make it easier
for me to track things. I'll do some limited jaw boning for ones that aren't
getting fixed and appear to be important.
8:10 a.m.
Below is the top 100 packages based on rpm size. The number is the size
in 1024 byte blocks. PersonalCopy-Lite-patches was a dependency of a lot
of stuff including some games.
If the restriction holds for the beta I'll look more carefully at what
gets added using the desktop ks as a base over the base ks. That would
give me a better idea of what was removable. But I might still end up
pulling one of the larger games.
368736 nexuiz-data-2.4.2-1.fc10.noarch.rpm
274100 openarena-0.7.7-2.fc10.noarch.rpm
273088 alienarena-data-20081016-1.fc10.noarch.rpm
245184 FlightGear-data-1.9.0-1.fc11.noarch.rpm
142912 wesnoth-data-1.4.7-1.fc11.noarch.rpm
124444 freedroidrpg-0.11.1-2.fc11.i386.rpm
101248 fillets-ng-data-0.8.0-2.noarch.rpm
99280 tremulous-data-1.1.0-4.fc8.noarch.rpm
75276 astromenace-data-1.2-1.fc8.noarch.rpm
67840 beneath-a-steel-sky-cd-0.0372-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
63844 glest-data-3.1.2-1.fc9.noarch.rpm
62884 egoboo-data-2.7.5-3.fc11.noarch.rpm
62380 boswars-2.5-1.fc9.i386.rpm
61816 widelands-0-0.13.Build13.fc11.i386.rpm
59192 supertuxkart-0.5-2.fc10.i386.rpm
58712 scorched3d-41.3-4.fc11.i386.rpm
55920 torcs-data-tracks-road-1.3.0-2.noarch.rpm
50272 wormux-data-0.8.2-3.fc11.i386.rpm
49700 openlierox-0.57-0.11.beta8.fc11.i386.rpm
49656 gcompris-8.4.8-2.fc11.i386.rpm
45752 PersonalCopy-Lite-patches-4.1-3.fc9.noarch.rpm
44124 warzone2100-2.1.0-1.fc11.i386.rpm
44004 supertux-0.3.1-4.fc11.i386.rpm
38640 nethack-vultures-2.1.0-15.fc11.i386.rpm
38268 lincity-ng-data-1.97-0.3.beta.fc11.i386.rpm
36264 flight-of-the-amazon-queen-cd-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
35588 blobAndConquer-1.0-1.fc10.i386.rpm
33220 nogravity-data-2.00-4.fc9.noarch.rpm
32920 kdegames-4.1.96-1.fc11.i386.rpm
32908 hedgewars-0.9.8-2.fc11.i386.rpm
32428 java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0-8.b14.fc11.i386.rpm
32368 stellarium-0.10.0-3.fc11.i386.rpm
30508 OpenSceneGraph-libs-2.6.0-1.fc10.i386.rpm
29888 tuxpaint-stamps-2008.06.30-1.fc10.noarch.rpm
29344 asc-2.2.0.0-2.fc11.i386.rpm
27852 maniadrive-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
27816 extremetuxracer-0.4-1.fc9.i386.rpm
23692 celestia-1.5.0-1.fc9.i386.rpm
22548 glibc-common-2.9.90-2.i386.rpm
21864 raidem-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
20836 xmoto-0.5.0-3.fc11.i386.rpm
20268 kernel-2.6.29-0.41.rc2.fc11.i686.rpm
20212 trackballs-music-1.2-4.fc8.noarch.rpm
20040 frozen-bubble-2.1.0-9.fc10.i386.rpm
19532 foomatic-4.0.0-1.fc11.i386.rpm
19420 auriferous-1.0.1-5.fc9.i386.rpm
19296 libgcj-4.3.2-7.i386.rpm
18712 Ri-li-2.0.1-3.fc9.i386.rpm
18180 torcs-data-1.3.0-2.noarch.rpm
17816 kdelibs3-3.5.10-3.fc11.i386.rpm
16824 magicor-1.1-2.fc11.noarch.rpm
16156 maniadrive-data-1.2-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
16088 ultimatestunts-0.7.5-2.fc11.i386.rpm
15412 gimp-2.6.4-3.fc11.i386.rpm
15056 oxygen-icon-theme-4.1.96-2.fc11.noarch.rpm
14740 gnubg-0.9.0.1-5.fc11.i386.rpm
14344 neverball-1.4.0-14.fc11.i386.rpm
14144 perl-5.10.0-53.fc11.i386.rpm
13608 kdelibs-4.1.96-9.fc11.i386.rpm
13448 libgweather-2.25.4-1.fc11.i386.rpm
12880 solar-backgrounds-0.92.0-1.fc10.noarch.rpm
12496 qt-x11-4.4.3-11.fc11.i386.rpm
12368 evolution-2.25.4-1.fc11.i386.rpm
11920 bzflag-2.0.12-4.fc11.i386.rpm
11768 pingus-0.7.2-4.fc11.i386.rpm
11664 wxPython-2.8.9.1-2.fc11.i386.rpm
11540 netpanzer-0.8.2-4.fc11.i386.rpm
11168 samba-common-3.2.5-0.23.fc11.i386.rpm
10640 glob2-0.9.3-2.fc11.i386.rpm
10552 xulrunner-1.9.1-0.6.beta2.fc11.i386.rpm
10532 asc-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
10428 powermanga-0.90-4.i386.rpm
10368 cjkunifonts-uming-0.2.20080216.1-13.fc11.noarch.rpm
9860 xblast-data-2.10.0-4.fc11.noarch.rpm
9612 torcs-data-cars-extra-1.3.0-2.noarch.rpm
9600 freeciv-2.1.8-1.fc11.i386.rpm
9580 gnome-backgrounds-2.24.0-2.fc10.noarch.rpm
9412 enigma-1.01-7.1.i386.rpm
9356 amoebax-0.2.0-3.fc9.i386.rpm
8536 wordwarvi-0.24-1.fc11.i386.rpm
8148 tuxpaint-0.9.20-2.fc11.i386.rpm
8100 freecol-0.7.4-4.fc11.noarch.rpm
8072 xerces-j2-2.7.1-10.2.fc10.i386.rpm
7552 libpurple-2.5.4-1.fc11.i386.rpm
7436 libabiword-2.6.6-9.fc11.i386.rpm
7220 freedoom-0.6.2-2.fc11.noarch.rpm
6992 tuxtype2-1.5.17-1.fc10.i386.rpm
6840 rocksndiamonds-3.2.6.0-1.fc11.i386.rpm
6816 libicu-4.0.1-1.fc11.i386.rpm
6796 trackballs-1.1.4-7.fc11.i386.rpm
6744 ghostscript-8.63-4.fc10.i386.rpm
6600 alienblaster-1.1.0-4.fc9.i386.rpm
6320 blobwars-1.09b2-2.fc10.i386.rpm
6268 gnome-applets-2.25.3-3.fc11.i386.rpm
5960 gnome-utils-2.25.2-1.fc11.i386.rpm
5940 worminator-data-3.0R2.1-4.fc8.noarch.rpm
5840 glibc-2.9.90-2.i686.rpm
5832 nautilus-2.25.2-6.fc11.i386.rpm
5820 python-2.6-4.fc11.i386.rpm
5796 anaconda-11.5.0.9-1.i386.rpm
9:34 p.m.
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
Below is the top 100 packages based on rpm size. The number is the
size
in 1024 byte blocks. PersonalCopy-Lite-patches was a dependency of a lot
of stuff including some games.
If the restriction holds for the beta I'll look more carefully at what
gets added using the desktop ks as a base over the base ks. That would
give me a better idea of what was removable. But I might still end up
pulling one of the larger games.
27852 maniadrive-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
21864 raidem-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
20212 trackballs-music-1.2-4.fc8.noarch.rpm
10532 asc-music-1.0-2.fc8.noarch.rpm
I would suggest cutting the *-music packages first. That cleans up
~80GB with no real loss in playability.
--Wart
6:35 a.m.
FYI there has been a thread
(http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-spins/2009-January/000420...)
started to discuss whether or not published DVD iso's will be allowed to be
over 4 GiB. Since this affects the games spin I thought I would mention it
here, since some of you seem to have opinions on this.
It would be especially useful to hear from people that have estimates on how
many Windows users that are likely to try out Fedora spins are likely to
be using vfat on their C: drive.
2:10 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno(a)wolff.to> wrote:
It would be especially useful to hear from people that have estimates
on how
many Windows users that are likely to try out Fedora spins are likely to
be using vfat on their C: drive.
According to the latest Steam hardware survey:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
97.33% of users are using NTFS. (Click "Other settings" on the bottom)
Really the only worry I see is that 4GB+ images probably won't work
for Live USB. USB sticks are usually FAT, and I think the Live USB
system requires it, as it uses syslinux. Booting Live USB off NTFS or
ext2 should be possible to implement. NTFS patches for GRUB exist, but
Fedora's GRUB doesn't seem to have them:
http://www.geocities.com/lode_leroy/grubinstall/
3:31 p.m.
This is pretty useful, I am going to try to tie this into a thread on the
spins list which might end up looking weird for threading.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 14:10:55 -0600,
Callum Lerwick <seg(a)haxxed.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Bruno Wolff III
<bruno(a)wolff.to> wrote:
> It would be especially useful to hear from people that have estimates on how
> many Windows users that are likely to try out Fedora spins are likely to
> be using vfat on their C: drive.
According to the latest Steam hardware survey:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
97.33% of users are using NTFS. (Click "Other settings" on the bottom)
Really the only worry I see is that 4GB+ images probably won't work
for Live USB. USB sticks are usually FAT, and I think the Live USB
system requires it, as it uses syslinux. Booting Live USB off NTFS or
ext2 should be possible to implement. NTFS patches for GRUB exist, but
Fedora's GRUB doesn't seem to have them:
http://www.geocities.com/lode_leroy/grubinstall/
Grub also allows its files to be referenced by block numbers. That could
be used to work around loading the grub config file.
I don't think getting people to reformat their usb drives is that big of
a deal. They can copy stuff off, format it, and then copy stuff back.
The issue is getting it to work both as liveusb and still letting it be
used under windows for moving files around.
5570
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11 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Bruno Wolff III -
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Guido -
Jeroen van Meeuwen -
Michael Thomas -
Rahul Sundaram