Fwd: Re: Heads up: Genshi will be abandoned and become obsolete
by Hiemanshu Sharma
On 04/16/2010 04:09 AM, Darren VanBuren wrote:
> Genshi works reliably for us, I'm with just saying that we keep it and
> if needs changes, it's our job to make those changes, which will
> hopefully kickstart (pun not intended) a new community to develop
> Genshi.
> Darren L. VanBuren
> =====================
> http://theoks.net/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 13:38, Luke Macken<lmacken(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> ----- "Stephen John Smoogen"<smooge(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Luke Macken<lmacken(a)redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The future of Genshi is currently in question...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears-trunk/t/ec921035779324e9
>>>
>>>> We currently rely on the Genshi templating engine for:
>>>>
>>>> * all static fedoraproject.org sites are compiled down to HTML
>>>>
>>> from Genshi
>>>
>>>> * Elections
>>>> * FAS
>>>> * PackageDB
>>>> * Smolt
>>>> * Trac (which will be switching to Jinja2 in the next release)
>>>>
>>>> It's also worth noting that Bodhi& Mirrormanager still rely on Kid,
>>>>
>>> the unmaintained precursor to Genshi.
>>>
>>>> Quoting upstream:
>>>>
>>>> """
>>>> Yes, my interests have mostly shifted elsewhere. I still believe
>>>>
>>> that both Babel and Genshi are worth being further maintained and
>>> enhanced, and I'm still interested to actually do the work, but
>>> obviously I'm not able to allot anywhere enough spare time to that
>>> task right now. What's more, I've unforunately been unable to attract
>>> other developers to contribute significantly to either code base, let
>>> alone build a strong community. That's not to say that I consider
>>> either project end-of-life. I still use them for my own stuff. But I'm
>>> the pretty much the single point of failure for both projects, and
>>> I've been failing badly and consistently at maintaining/enhancing them
>>> for some time now. Sorry.
>>>
>>>> I agree that adoption of Jinja2 should be considered, it's become a
>>>>
>>> very solid templating solution, and comes with both more momentum and
>>> better performance than Genshi. But I'm not sure how a gradual
>>> transition could work. As Noah said, you can't switch some of the most
>>> important pages to Jinja and still support stream filters. Or site
>>> templates using match templates for advanced customization. You'll
>>> also need to rethink parts of the internationalization story, I
>>> guess.
>>>
>>>> If there's going to be another template engine switch, I think it's
>>>>
>>> going to hurt. But it might just be worth it.
>>>
>>>> """
>>>>
>>>> So, what are our options?
>>>>
>>>> 1) Find contributors that are willing and able to help sustain this
>>>>
>>> project upstream
>>>
>>>> 2) Stay on Genshi and rely on the Fedora/EPEL maintainers to fix
>>>>
>>> bugs as they are filed
>>>
>>>> 3) Try and utilize http://pypi.python.org/pypi/chameleon.genshi
>>>>
>>> instead, which is supposed to be able to run Genshi templates faster
>>> than Genshi can.
>>>
>>>> (Note: TG2 was going to support this engine, but apparently it
>>>>
>>> needs a bit more work. It may still be worth looking into, though.)
>>>
>>>> 4) Port to another templating engine (Jinja2, Mako, etc)
>>>>
>>>> We obviously have a vested interest in keeping this project alive,
>>>>
>>> so #1 is ideal.
>>>
>>>> Porting will require a bit of effort. The TurboGears2 port of bodhi
>>>>
>>> that I'm working on will use the Mako templating engine (which is
>>> actively maintained by the SQLAlchemy author). However, it seems
>>> we've taken the #2 route with Kid for the past 5 years, and I've had
>>> zero issues with it.
>>>
>>>> There was talk at PyCon this year about changing the TurboGears2
>>>>
>>> default templating engine to Mako. The only reason not to for 2.0 was
>>> to ease the 1.0->2.0 transition. However, everyone I spoke to was in
>>> favor of switching the defaults in 2.1.
>>>
>>> Looking at the options and other parts.. I think staying with Genshi
>>> for the most part would be our 'best' bet. If someone is really
>>> motivated or if we are doing a huge code change in something then
>>> maybe it would be attractive for changing.
>>>
>> Yeah, I agree. This issue has caused a lot of discussion today, and there are definitely a lot of people out there that care about Genshi
>> and some have even stepped up and are willing to help support& maintain it. I also see some milestone activity on my upstream tickets happening today.
>> So, Genshi is definitely not dead -- it just needed a swift kick in the ass :)
>>
>> luke
I would be more than happy to take up Genshi if needed, having used
Genshi for college projects for fedora websites and a lot more things, I
dont want to let it go away easy. I have been taking talks on Genshi
too, and if I let it go away easy I would miss something I really love.
If anyone is interested together we can probably take up the ownership
and make fedora as the new upstream for Genshi.
-Hiemanshu
14 years
Heads up: Genshi will be abandoned and become obsolete
by Luke Macken
The future of Genshi is currently in question...
http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears-trunk/t/ec921035779324e9
We currently rely on the Genshi templating engine for:
* all static fedoraproject.org sites are compiled down to HTML from Genshi
* Elections
* FAS
* PackageDB
* Smolt
* Trac (which will be switching to Jinja2 in the next release)
It's also worth noting that Bodhi & Mirrormanager still rely on Kid, the unmaintained precursor to Genshi.
Quoting upstream:
"""
Yes, my interests have mostly shifted elsewhere. I still believe that both Babel and Genshi are worth being further maintained and enhanced, and I'm still interested to actually do the work, but obviously I'm not able to allot anywhere enough spare time to that task right now. What's more, I've unforunately been unable to attract other developers to contribute significantly to either code base, let alone build a strong community. That's not to say that I consider either project end-of-life. I still use them for my own stuff. But I'm the pretty much the single point of failure for both projects, and I've been failing badly and consistently at maintaining/enhancing them for some time now. Sorry.
I agree that adoption of Jinja2 should be considered, it's become a very solid templating solution, and comes with both more momentum and better performance than Genshi. But I'm not sure how a gradual transition could work. As Noah said, you can't switch some of the most important pages to Jinja and still support stream filters. Or site templates using match templates for advanced customization. You'll also need to rethink parts of the internationalization story, I guess.
If there's going to be another template engine switch, I think it's going to hurt. But it might just be worth it.
"""
So, what are our options?
1) Find contributors that are willing and able to help sustain this project upstream
2) Stay on Genshi and rely on the Fedora/EPEL maintainers to fix bugs as they are filed
3) Try and utilize http://pypi.python.org/pypi/chameleon.genshi instead, which is supposed to be able to run Genshi templates faster than Genshi can.
(Note: TG2 was going to support this engine, but apparently it needs a bit more work. It may still be worth looking into, though.)
4) Port to another templating engine (Jinja2, Mako, etc)
We obviously have a vested interest in keeping this project alive, so #1 is ideal.
Porting will require a bit of effort. The TurboGears2 port of bodhi that I'm working on will use the Mako templating engine (which is actively maintained by the SQLAlchemy author). However, it seems we've taken the #2 route with Kid for the past 5 years, and I've had zero issues with it.
There was talk at PyCon this year about changing the TurboGears2 default templating engine to Mako. The only reason not to for 2.0 was to ease the 1.0->2.0 transition. However, everyone I spoke to was in favor of switching the defaults in 2.1.
luke
14 years
puppet on hosted1
by Mike McGrath
I've got pupet on hosted1 disabled for a bit, please leave it like that or
talk to me first.
-Mike
14 years
Meeting Log - 2010-04-15
by Ricky Zhou
20:01 < mmcgrath> #startmeeting Infrastructure
20:01 < zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 15 20:01:46 2010 UTC. The chair is mmcgrath. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:01 < mmcgrath> #topic who's here?
20:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: who's here? (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:01 * ricky
20:01 * lmacken
20:02 * abadger1999 here
20:02 < smooge> hi
20:02 * a-k is
20:02 < mmcgrath> Ok, lets get started.
20:02 * nirik is lurking around
20:02 -!- sgallagh [~sgallagh@nat/redhat/x-masbcddbxwctqeer] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:03 < mmcgrath> #topic fedora13-beta
20:03 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: fedora13-beta (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:03 < mmcgrath> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report/9
20:03 < mmcgrath> .ticket 2063
20:03 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #2063 (Lessons Learned) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2063
20:03 < mmcgrath> Any oddities or things this release?
20:03 * fchiulli fchiulli is listening from the rafters
20:03 < smooge> went well for me
20:04 < ricky> No delay from the websites side for once :-)
20:04 < smooge> I think it was rather smooth...
20:04 < smooge> most of the issues seemed completely non-beta related :).
20:04 < smooge> stupid xen13 rebooting after I close ticket
20:04 < ricky> Hehe
20:04 -!- ahmed-araby [~ahmed-ara@fedora/ahmed-araby] has quit Remote host closed the connection
20:04 < mmcgrath> hah
20:04 < mmcgrath> Ok, well, I'll close it.
20:04 -!- inode0 [~inode0@fedora/inode0] has quit Quit: Leaving.
20:05 < mmcgrath> #topic Gitweb-cache
20:05 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Gitweb-cache (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:05 * ricky bets we will learn a lesson right after mmcgrath closes the ticket
20:05 < mmcgrath> So I went ahead and deployed gitweb-caching
20:06 < mmcgrath> special thanks to jds2001 and warthog9 for their work on that.
20:06 < mmcgrath> I just did the final little bits to deploy it.
20:06 < mmcgrath> now to see if load / disk IO on there gets any easier.
20:06 < mmcgrath> We ran into a little bump with it
20:06 < mmcgrath> but so far so good
20:06 < mmcgrath> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/ BTW
20:07 < mmcgrath> ok, any questions on that?
20:07 < smooge> what was the bump
20:07 < mmcgrath> smooge: seems the /git/projectname.git/ wasn't working quite right
20:08 < mmcgrath> so I just put a redirect in to send those to a proper URL.
20:09 < mmcgrath> Ok, moving on
20:09 < mmcgrath> #topic Search
20:09 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Search (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:09 < mmcgrath> a-k: whats the latest?
20:09 < a-k> There's not much to say this week
20:09 < a-k> I'm looking at DataparkSearch, which is a fork from mnoGoSearch
20:09 < a-k> I should have more to say about it next week, but that's it for now
20:09 < mmcgrath> a-k: alrighty thanks.
20:10 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any questions on that?
20:10 < mmcgrath> alrighty
20:10 < mmcgrath> #topic Insight
20:10 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Insight (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:10 < mmcgrath> stickster: ping
20:10 < mmcgrath> mchua: ping
20:10 < mmcgrath> any word on insight?
20:10 < smooge> ok what is Insight
20:11 < mmcgrath> smooge: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight
20:11 < smooge> ok they just got out of a meeting in #fedora-mktg about that.. I think they are at lunch
20:11 < mmcgrath> k
20:11 < stickster> mmcgrath: back
20:11 -!- liknus [~liknus(a)athedsl-4526801.home.otenet.gr] has quit Ping timeout: 265 seconds
20:11 < stickster> sorry
20:11 < mchua> mmcgrath: stickster has been driving lately - stickster?
20:12 < stickster> mmcgrath: There are two substantial tasks left -- finishing the skin, and finishing the access/workflow docs for the users of the system.
20:12 < stickster> We've verified that the authentication works properly
20:12 < mmcgrath> stickster: what are the odds that'll be ready by the end of april?
20:12 < stickster> So right now, we believe we'll be ready.
20:12 < stickster> We in fact have work scheduled for tomorrow evening and Sunday to finish a lot of the substantial work.
20:13 < smooge> where will it sit "browser wise?"
20:13 < stickster> hiemanshu is working with us to get the staging completed by 4/24
20:13 < mmcgrath> stickster: ok, so should I just use you as the primary contact? I might work with you for daily updates :)
20:13 < stickster> We are hoping to use something like insight.fedoraproject.org
20:13 < mmcgrath> smooge: fedoraproject.org/insight/
20:13 < mmcgrath> smooge: here it is in staging - http://stg.fedoraproject.org/insight/
20:13 < mmcgrath> well, some old version of it
20:13 < stickster> Similar to get.fedoraproject.org -> fedoraproject.org/get-fedora correct?
20:14 < mmcgrath> stickster: I can put a redirect in if you really want it
20:14 < mmcgrath> stickster: but note it's the same number of characters either way :)
20:14 < stickster> Yes, the stg. may be a bit behind at this point
20:14 < stickster> mmcgrath: It's not vital we have a subdomain, I don't think.
20:14 < mmcgrath> :)
20:14 < stickster> mmcgrath: Does it matter from a SEO standpoint?
20:15 < mmcgrath> ok, well I'll keep on you to get the latest.
20:15 < mmcgrath> stickster: I just am against having things in two locations.
20:15 -!- cenomanien [~cenomanie(a)ANantes-552-1-119-236.w92-144.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit Quit: cenomanien
20:15 < mmcgrath> canonical addresses are good so when something is a redirect I try to keep them to exceptions and not the rule.
20:16 < stickster> OK, I was just curious about the SEO issue -- like I said, fp.o/insight will work just fine for us
20:16 < smooge> ok insight is the news story site that people were outlining last summer when I started working at RH and I met mchua. Ok caught up now
20:16 < stickster> mmcgrath: I'll be sending updates to the logistics@ list as we complete work, so you can stay tuned there
20:16 < mmcgrath> stickster: I honestly don't know if this impacts searches or not.
20:16 < mmcgrath> smooge: yeah that's the one.
20:16 < stickster> Also this impacts infra ticket #2006 IIRC
20:16 < smooge> SEO experts will argue over whether it does depending on how much you pay them
20:17 < stickster> :-D
20:17 < mmcgrath> .ticket 2006
20:17 < zodbot> mmcgrath: #2006 (Create forms in Zikula on staging for Fedora Insight content workflow) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2006
20:17 < mmcgrath> stickster: k
20:17 < stickster> That's an intermediate step in the process
20:17 -!- mchua is now known as mchua_afk
20:17 < stickster> It records what we need to move over in terms of content and what needs to be captured in the skin and so forth
20:18 * stickster eof
20:18 < mmcgrath> sure
20:18 < mmcgrath> ok, anyone else have anything to discuss on this?
20:18 -!- ajoian [~ajoian(a)92.80.64.242] has quit Ping timeout: 260 seconds
20:18 < mmcgrath> alrighty
20:19 < mmcgrath> well that's really all I have for th emeeting
20:19 < mmcgrath> #topic Open Floor
20:19 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Open Floor (Meeting topic: Infrastructure)
20:19 < mmcgrath> anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
20:20 < mmcgrath> If not we'll close in 30
20:20 < abadger1999> All smooth sailing atm :-)
20:20 -!- fchiulli [~824c400e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wbuznpcqbojvmjjn] has left #fedora-meeting []
20:21 < stickster> \o/ <-- Infrastructure == win
20:21 < stickster> Nice job on Beta guys!
20:21 < mmcgrath> hehehe
20:21 < mmcgrath> thanks
20:21 < mmcgrath> ok with that
20:21 < mmcgrath> #endmeeting
20:21 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule
20:21 < zodbot> Meeting ended Thu Apr 15 20:21:29 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
20:21 < zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-04-15/fedora-meeting...
20:21 < mmcgrath> thanks for coming everyone!
20:21 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-04-15/fedora-meeting...
20:21 < zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-04-15/fedora-meeting...
14 years
Re: Heads up: Genshi will be abandoned and become obsolete
by Luke Macken
Forwarding mail from upstream TG developer, Florent Aide.
> Luke,
>
> I have read this:
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2010-April/008721...
> and that:
> http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears-trunk/browse_thread/thread/ec92...
>
> And I won't reply on your ML because I don't want to subscribe to yet
> another ML but you are permitted to "republish" this communication :)
>
> chameleon.genshi works well with TG2 (I did it already, maybe some
> things have been broken in recent trunk but it should be fairly easy
> to get up again.) There were issues with filters in the chameleon
> implementation but I have seen recent commits that may have fixed
> this. (need to check though)
>
> I for one will not move to a non XML templating engine and I'll
> support Genshi in TG2 as long a I care for TG2. I have production
> applications using TG1 and TG2 for __big__ clients so I think I'll
> continue to support Genshi for some time in TG2.
>
> Moreover, I have __big__ non-web applications that rely heavily on
> Genshi for XML templating, so once again I'll continue to support and
> use Genshi (or chameleon in this case because I don't rely on filters
> in those non-web apps).
>
> This includes Mathieu, who gets from time to time the possibility to
> contribute upstream patches to the projects we use daily... And this
> includes Jon (tg2 committer) who also works with us and is quite
> versed in Genshi use :)
>
> Cheers,
>.
> Florent.
14 years
blogs.fedoraproject.org and planet
by Luca Foppiano
Hi all,
I'm interested to know the status of the blogs instances in the
fedoraproject domains.
I would like to use the blog and the planet as news/story board for the
local fedora communities website .
* About the blog, Is something work in progress? I saw a nice
infrastructure but with some work more to do:
- are you aware that the css has some class broken? like the images are
not correctly shown?
- do you think is possible to customize also the left bar?
* about the planet, are there any plans to create a multi-instance,
planet, maybe by country or by language?
let me know
luca
14 years
hotfix request - bump MM max_stale_days back to 7
by Matt Domsch
Between alpha and beta freezes, I decreased the MM config value
max_stale_days from 7 to 2. This causes MM to "forget" about old
repomd.xml data after 2 days instead of 7, which reduces how long a
mirror can be "stale" before being ignored by yum.
As we've slowed down releasing updates for existing releases, it can
be longer than 2 days between pushing updates. In this case, we run
into the propogation delay between when content gets posted on the
master, MM picking it up an hour later, and then "drops" the
now-historical metadata that's older than 2 days - mirrors who haven't
updated within that hour get ignored by yum with a pretty loud error
message.
I've got a fix, but await end of change freeze to roll out a new MM
with the fix. Until then, I'd like to return the config value back to
7 days, which papers over the propogation delay much better.
+1s please.
Thanks,
Matt
--
Matt Domsch
Technology Strategist
Dell | Office of the CTO
14 years
not enough disk on git.fedorahosted.org
by Miroslav Suchý
Please delete something or buy another disk :)
We got there email hook, which probobly do not have enough disk space on
some mount.
[msuchy(a)dri/~/rhn/spacewalk.pub/schema/spacewalk]$ git push --tags
Counting objects: 1, done.
Writing objects: 100% (1/1), 229 bytes, done.
Total 1 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/send-unicode-email.py", line 32, in ?
smtp.sendmail(sender, recipients, msg.as_string())
File "/usr/lib/python2.4/smtplib.py", line 680, in sendmail
raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused: (452, '4.3.1 Insufficient system storage',
'=?utf-8?q?Miroslav_Such=C3=BD?= <msuchy(a)fedoraproject.org>')
To ssh://msuchy@git.fedorahosted.org/git/spacewalk.git/
* [new tag] spacewalk-schema-0.9.4-1 -> spacewalk-schema-0.9.4-1
--
Miroslav Suchy
Red Hat Satellite Engineering
14 years
