5:22 a.m.
Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and
#fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a
pull-request change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it
makes it difficult to have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the
signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those
notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and
#fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development
discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Aurélien
5:30 a.m.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard
<abompard(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Hey folks!
We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure IRC
channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know about
the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development conversation
in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those notifications to
a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and #fedora-infrastructure-activity).
Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in another channel, it's fine too.
What do you think?
Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it
yet. -- i have now:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/683
cheers,
ryanlerch
Aurélien
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12:03 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 08:30:29PM +1000, Ryan Lerch wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard
<abompard(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> Hey folks!
>
> We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and #fedora-infrastructure
IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request change. I don't know
about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to have a development
conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
>
> Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those
notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and
#fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in
another channel, it's fine too.
>
> What do you think?
Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it
yet. -- i have now:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/683
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl.
;(
Is any level of messages useful in #fedora-apps?
Are there going to be any people who join a #fedora-apps-activity ?
I mean, we could just also drop it entirely if people don't want it.
Or adjust it so only 'important' things go there.
Just some more thoughts...
kevin
1:33 p.m.
On Tue, 2021-07-13 at 10:03 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 08:30:29PM +1000, Ryan Lerch wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:23 PM Aurelien Bompard
> <abompard(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hey folks!
> >
> > We currently have messages posted on the #fedora-apps and
#fedora-infrastructure IRC channels when there's a ticket change or a pull-request
change. I don't know about the infrastructure channel, but it makes it difficult to
have a development conversation in #fedora-apps, the signal/noise ratio is just too low.
> >
> > Are you all happy with this setup? I would like to propose we move those
notifications to a different channel, such as #fedora-apps-activity (and
#fedora-infrastructure-activity). Otherwise I can go have my development discussions in
another channel, it's fine too.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> Yes -- i agree with moving the notifications to a separate channel.
>
> I actually had a PR to change this already -- but just hadnt filed it
> yet. -- i have now:
>
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/683
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl.
;(
Is any level of messages useful in #fedora-apps?
Are there going to be any people who join a #fedora-apps-activity ?
I mean, we could just also drop it entirely if people don't want it.
Or adjust it so only 'important' things go there.
I do find the level of messages pretty overwhelming. Especially when
we're getting stuff like "edited the priority fields of ticket blah"
and "assigned ticket blah to blah". It does make it very difficult to
see actual conversations in the backscroll.
It does seem interesting that other groups don't do this and seem to
function. We don't have all the QA-related trackers notifying #fedora-
qa every time anyone touches a ticket, yet things still seem to work
and the tickets aren't ignored...
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net
1:59 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:33:58AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
I do find the level of messages pretty overwhelming. Especially when
we're getting stuff like "edited the priority fields of ticket blah"
and "assigned ticket blah to blah". It does make it very difficult to
see actual conversations in the backscroll.
Yeah, I think the current level is pretty crazy.
It does seem interesting that other groups don't do this and seem
to
function. We don't have all the QA-related trackers notifying #fedora-
qa every time anyone touches a ticket, yet things still seem to work
and the tickets aren't ignored...
Sure, and perhaps we should just drop all the messages to #fedora-apps?
Dunno. I guess it's all a matter of workflow. One thing I keep trying to
figure out how to prevent/reduce is what I think of as 'turning a pull
request into a push request'. (note: lots of people do this, I am not
singling anyone out!):
A: Hey, can you update foo for new bar?
B: Sorry, I am busy, can you submit a PR?
A: Sure!
...minutes pass...
A: Hey B! I filed PR#123456 for that. Can you merge it?
B: I'm still busy, but will look at it when I can, also CI is still
running on it.
...time passes...
A: Hey B: CI passed on PR#123456! can you merge it?
I don't know what the answer is to prevent that... I guess better
expectations on how long to wait for a PR to be merged/reviewed?
Committing to reviewing all PR's daily or weekly? A culture of assuming
you can/should just submit a PR and let email notify people?
Anyhow, I suppose thats a sidetrack on this orig topic...
I'm happy to change the notifications on #fedora-apps however fedora
apps developers prefer.
kevin
2:02 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:59:15AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
...snip...
Duh, I forgot the thing that made me make this aside:
A: Hey, can you update foo for new bar?
B: Sorry, I am busy, can you submit a PR?
A: Sure!
...minutes pass...
fm-channelbot: PR#123456 filed on foo: Subject: adjust for new
bar
A: ^
A: Hey B! I filed PR#123456 for that. Can you merge it?
(just after the bot announced the thing)
B: I'm still busy, but will look at it when I can, also CI is
still
running on it.
...time passes...
A: Hey B: CI passed on PR#123456! can you merge it?
kevin
12:45 a.m.
Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are useless, but
if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even
on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own
actions which is extra annoying.
The use case you described still generates less messages than notifications
:-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit
them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed,
reopened)?
7:03 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 07:45:27AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are
useless, but
if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even
on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own
actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do
any good?
I guess I am just thinking of all the ways we get notified of things...
email, then FMN, then this... I am not sure it helps, but perhaps I am
not considering the right use case.
The use case you described still generates less messages than
notifications
:-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit
them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed,
reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
kevin
4:50 a.m.
> At the moment I get notified of my own
> actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do
any good?
I could decide to look at it when I'm waiting for something to finish, or
re-enable temporarily the notifications if I'm waiting for something. Or
just only subscribe to it when in this situation.
Not sure. I don't care much about these IRC notifications, but I do care
about people being able to ping me on IRC and having discussions there.
Separating the notifications from the discussions would be useful for me,
but maybe that's just my use case.
> The use case you described still generates less messages than
notifications
> :-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit
> them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed,
> reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
Yeah, I'm not the best person to ask because I don't really use them, I
usually prefer looking at my email folders.
A.
5:14 a.m.
On 15. 07. 21 2:03, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 07:45:27AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> Yeah I see what you mean. I don't think IRC notifications are useless, but
> if they are in a different channel I can set this channel to be silent even
> on messages with my nickname. At the moment I get notified of my own
> actions which is extra annoying.
Yeah. But if you silent the notification channel, do those notices do
any good?
I guess I am just thinking of all the ways we get notified of things...
email, then FMN, then this... I am not sure it helps, but perhaps I am
not considering the right use case.
> The use case you described still generates less messages than notifications
> :-) On top of switching to a different channel, we could maybe also limit
> them, like only notify on PR & Issue status changes (opened, closed,
> reopened)?
We should consider whats useful and only have those...
I agree, having to go
through tons of notifications will just end with
them being ignored by people.
Michal
kevin
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10:51 a.m.
So, how about this: Just disable notifications there in #fedora-apps for
now.
If someone wants them (or a subset back), they can propose re-adding it
there or in another channel?
kevin
6 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 06:43:21AM +0200, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> So, how about this: Just disable notifications there in
#fedora-apps for
> now.
>
> If someone wants them (or a subset back), they can propose re-adding it
> there or in another channel?
>
Works for me! Thanks!
ok. I dropped it for now.
We can of course always re-add it/adjust it again more later.
kevin
2:44 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 10:03:29AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
I guess we can do this... I just dispair for irc channel sprawl.
;(
With Matrix (any day now!!!!!), we can group channels into Spaces, and as I
understand it, these Spaces can contain arbitrary channels and other Spaces.
So we could have one Space which consists entirely of notification message
channels, and there could also be a Websites & Apps space which contains
both the conversation channel _and_ the notifications one.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
1004
days inactive
1017
days old
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
13 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Adam Williamson -
Aurelien Bompard -
Kevin Fenzi -
Matthew Miller -
Michal Konecny -
Ryan Lerch