9:42 p.m.
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only.
Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
3:21 a.m.
Hi Mike!
On 08/30/2010 04:42 AM, Mike McGrath wrote:
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be
invite only.
Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
groups and sponsor them at that time.
I believe I'm still in this group. So feel free to remove me.
Best,
Oliver
8:25 a.m.
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com> wrote:
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be
invite only.
Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
So i am curious how do you actually contribute with the Infrastructure team.
Seems like a caveat here. The wiki page and this email seems to be in
conflict please make it consistent across the board. I am new contributor to
the Project. So i can give a perspective which is often not voiced. Also i
read this link
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor. However i
was met with crickets meaning i got no reply. I understand this Team is one
the more important in the Projects. I guess however im a new guy so what i
say will be met with some critique. Also i like to give solutions if
possible. How about mentoring some new contributors in the Infrastructure
Team. So they are monitored what they do. They can learn but still they dont
bork things. Just my 2 cents cause we all here to contribute in our little
part to the Project. I have find my niche what i do for the Project and I am
satisfied. I just speak for the next new contributor that sends a Intro
email.
Tajidiin
"You want for your brother what you want for yourself"
--Prophet Muhammad (SAW)
8:36 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Tajidin Abd wrote:
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com> wrote:
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only.
Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
So i am curious how do you actually contribute with the Infrastructure team. Seems like a
caveat here. The wiki page and this email seems to be in conflict please make it
consistent across the board. I am new contributor to the Project. So i can give a
perspective which is often not voiced. Also i read this link
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor. However i was met with
crickets meaning i got no reply. I understand this Team is one the more important in
the Projects. I guess however im a new guy so what i say will be met with some critique.
Also i like to give solutions if possible. How about mentoring some new contributors
in the Infrastructure Team. So they are monitored what they do. They can learn but still
they dont bork things. Just my 2 cents cause we all here to contribute in our little
part to the Project. I have find my niche what i do for the Project and I am satisfied. I
just speak for the next new contributor that sends a Intro email.
I just re-read the wiki and I don't see any conflicts, can you tell me the
exact text you're concerned with. Also, you say you got no reply after
reading a wiki link, I assume you contacted this list? I try hard to
reply to everyone, sorry I missed your introduction. Couldy ou re-send
it?
More generally, if you're looking to contribute to this team and haven't
already, this is a good link:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted
-Mike
8:52 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
Mike McGrath
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:42 PM
To: Infrastructure
Subject: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite
only.
Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
Mike,
Does this dovetail with the "promotion paths" we talked about for some
of the more critical groups? Getting invited in, being mentored for a
while and then a combination of the mentee wanting to move up and the
mentor sponsoring them for a group like -main or -dba.
So a new user has to show some interest and initiative in the list and
IRC to get an invite to the main group. And the same to move up to some
of the higher responsibility groups. It makes sense to judge skill and
availability, IMHO.
Course, we run the risk of sounding like Masons ... "The Supreme Council
of the Infrastructures General of the Project Fedora of the
Twenty-second degree of the Ancient and Accepted Linux Distributions" ;)
-Matt
9:11 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
> Mike McGrath
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:42 PM
> To: Infrastructure
> Subject: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
>
> FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite
> only.
> Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and
> that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the
> groups and sponsor them at that time.
>
> -Mike
Mike,
Does this dovetail with the "promotion paths" we talked about for some
of the more critical groups? Getting invited in, being mentored for a
while and then a combination of the mentee wanting to move up and the
mentor sponsoring them for a group like -main or -dba.
So a new user has to show some interest and initiative in the list and
IRC to get an invite to the main group. And the same to move up to some
of the higher responsibility groups. It makes sense to judge skill and
availability, IMHO.
Course, we run the risk of sounding like Masons ... "The Supreme Council
of the Infrastructures General of the Project Fedora of the
Twenty-second degree of the Ancient and Accepted Linux Distributions" ;)
It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier
groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way to go.
No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked with
in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know the
group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just
apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to
sponsor them.
I think the application -> then sponsor method would be idea but it
doesn't work in practice.
-Mike
9:29 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
Mike McGrath
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:12 AM
To: Fedora Infrastructure
Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier
groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way
to
go.
No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked
with
in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know
the
group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just
apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to
sponsor them.
I think that's a key point to get across and may be some of the concern
Tajidiin may have had. How do you contribute and gain that exposure
without being part of the sysadmin group in the first place? Starting
discussions about bugs on the list / in the IRC channel? Responding to
list / IRC questions on tools? Offering to help document the skills and
experience for each FIG ;)? How do we get that message out and what
sorts of activities are appropriate / expected?
-Matt
9:33 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
> Mike McGrath
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:12 AM
> To: Fedora Infrastructure
> Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
>
> It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier
> groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way
to
> go.
> No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked
> with
> in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know
> the
> group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just
> apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to
> sponsor them.
I think that's a key point to get across and may be some of the concern
Tajidiin may have had. How do you contribute and gain that exposure
without being part of the sysadmin group in the first place? Starting
discussions about bugs on the list / in the IRC channel? Responding to
list / IRC questions on tools? Offering to help document the skills and
experience for each FIG ;)? How do we get that message out and what
sorts of activities are appropriate / expected?
We link to the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor document
on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use. I
still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things" instead
of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in place
are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-Mike
3:25 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
Mike McGrath
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM
To: Fedora Infrastructure
Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
We link to the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor
document
on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use.
I
still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things"
instead
of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in
place
are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-Mike
Good points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done,
and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is
my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
-Matt
3:34 p.m.
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
> Mike McGrath
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM
> To: Fedora Infrastructure
> Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
>
> We link to the
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor
> document
> on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use.
> I
> still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things"
> instead
> of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in
> place
> are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
>
> -Mike
Good points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done,
and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is
my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
You're still not looking at it the right way. The way you've worded it it
sounds like you're end goal is to be in a sysadmin-* group. You're end
goal should be finding some work to do then finding someone willing to
sponsor you to do that work.
-Mike
4:26 a.m.
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
> > Mike McGrath
> > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM
> > To: Fedora Infrastructure
> > Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
> >
> > We link to the
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor
> > document
> > on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use.
> > I
> > still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things"
> > instead
> > of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in
> > place
> > are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
> >
> > -Mike
>
> Good points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done,
> and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is
> my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
>
You're still not looking at it the right way. The way you've worded it it
sounds like you're end goal is to be in a sysadmin-* group. You're end
goal should be finding some work to do then finding someone willing to
sponsor you to do that work.
-Mike
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
I dont want it to seem like im a troll, cause i know the Infrastructure is
busy as heck you have lot of things to worry about. Just make it more clear
for the new contributor that comes along. Yes i know myself i came in
thinking i can do it all. then i figured out its best to work slowly then
build up. Thats why since you will make it inivite only, for sure there need
to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with him. For
example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content, for the
Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say you have
to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Tajidin
7:18 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Tajidin Abd <tajidinabd(a)archlinux.us> wrote:
I dont want it to seem like im a troll, cause i know the
Infrastructure is
busy as heck you have lot of things to worry about. Just make it more clear
I sure don't think you're a troll, fwiw :)
for the new contributor that comes along. Yes i know myself i came
in
thinking i can do it all. then i figured out its best to work slowly then
build up. Thats why since you will make it inivite only, for sure there need
The invite-only part is just a new construct in FAS. We'd have people
applying for various groups that were not appropriate - 'accounts'
comes to mind here, since I get all the spam of people applying for
it, I'm sure there are many others. You have always required
sponsorship/mentorship to work in Infrastructure - all that this
change is doing is saying that you cannot apply to the group *in FAS*
in order to relieve the overhead on the sponsors.
to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with
him. For
example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content, for the
Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say you have
to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a
clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task,
there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually
"move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
Does that make it more clear?
8:08 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
Jon Stanley
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:19 AM
To: Fedora Infrastructure
Subject: Re: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
> to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with
him. For
> example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content,
for
the
> Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say
you
have
> to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a
clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task,
there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually
"move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
Does that make it more clear?
That plus Mike's earlier feedback definitely set me straight. I had
come in (even after reading the docs) thinking that it was 'look around,
find where you'd like to work, get to know those people, ask to work
with them, pick up tasks, Profit!!!'. Mike's got me started in the
right order despite that misunderstanding. :)
In retrospect, it makes sense. OSS projects I've worked on before I got
started with b/c of a fix to a script or something that I brought to a
list. I asked questions, did the work, and then presented it up for
review.
-Matt
9:38 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Matt Micene <matt.micene(a)dlt.com> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: infrastructure-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of
> Jon Stanley
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:19 AM
> To: Fedora Infrastructure
> Subject: Re: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
>
> > to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with
> him. For
> > example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content,
for
> the
> > Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say
you
> have
> > to learn how to follow before you can lead.
>
> Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a
> clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task,
> there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually
> "move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
>
> Does that make it more clear?
That plus Mike's earlier feedback definitely set me straight. I had
come in (even after reading the docs) thinking that it was 'look around,
find where you'd like to work, get to know those people, ask to work
with them, pick up tasks, Profit!!!'. Mike's got me started in the
right order despite that misunderstanding. :)
In retrospect, it makes sense. OSS projects I've worked on before I got
started with b/c of a fix to a script or something that I brought to a
list. I asked questions, did the work, and then presented it up for
review.
-Matt
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
yea clears it up fine for me now thanks alot keep up the good work what you
fellas do
tajidin
4980
days inactive
4981
days old
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Jon Stanley -
Matt Micene -
Mike McGrath -
Oliver Falk -
Tajidin Abd