9:25 a.m.
One of the frustrations of having multiple different lists is that we can't
really easily cross-post, because if people reply but aren't subscribed to
all lists, they get bounces, and the conversation ends up fragmented. Or the
alternative, multi-posting (same post individually to multiple lists), but
then you're _starting_ with fragmentation.
The radical solution to this would be to use topics, but those require users
to change their habits (putting topics in the subject or a keywords
header).
So instead, could we (now, or in the mm3 future) make it so any address
subscribed to any public fedora list is automatically added to an accept
filter for all other lists?
I don't know enough of the mailman internals to know how this might be
implemented, butit seems like it must be doable. And there might be some
details to be worked out around removing people, and possible moderation.
But what do you think of the general idea?
--
Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project -- <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
9:29 a.m.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:25:54 -0400,
Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
But what do you think of the general idea?
I think it is a good idea.
However there needs to be exceptions for some lists. Specifically the
annoucement lists need to stay moderated. Private lists should also
be thought about, but I can't think of anything too bad that would happen
(that wouldn't apply to normal lists) if non-member contributors posted
there.
9:33 a.m.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:25:54 -0400,
Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
I don't know enough of the mailman internals to know how this might be
implemented, butit seems like it must be doable. And there might be some
details to be worked out around removing people, and possible moderation.
But what do you think of the general idea?
Note that it is possible for individuals to mostly achieve this now. You
can subscribe to all of the lists and then turn off mail from those lists.
Then you can send to them (except the ons that moderate by default), but
not get email from them. This is a pain to set up initially and you would
need to watch for new lists.
11:41 a.m.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Matthew Miller wrote:
One of the frustrations of having multiple different lists is that we
can't
really easily cross-post, because if people reply but aren't subscribed to
all lists, they get bounces, and the conversation ends up fragmented. Or the
alternative, multi-posting (same post individually to multiple lists), but
then you're _starting_ with fragmentation.
but if if one can post but are not subscribed to a side list
and the thread takes off there, a poster never sees it without
wallowing through the archive (a pull vs push method)
I don't know enough of the mailman internals to know how this
might be
implemented, butit seems like it must be doable. And there might be some
details to be worked out around removing people, and possible moderation.
But what do you think of the general idea?
from memory there was formerly a 'wildcard to post' email
list back in RHL days
I am generally negative for the first listed reason.
If a thread is important enough to cross post, it is easy
enough for the poster thinking so to add a '-request' before
the '@', and subscribe for a bit before posting. It is easy
enough to reverse the process once the thread burns out. And
is just might be that that new list turns out to be worth
hanging around on, and cross-pollinating
Burden one person once rather than confuse many people a lot,
so to speak
-1 as indicated
-- Russ herrold
2:08 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:41:35 -0400,
R P Herrold <herrold(a)owlriver.com> wrote:
but if if one can post but are not subscribed to a side list
and the thread takes off there, a poster never sees it without
wallowing through the archive (a pull vs push method)
Not if people reply all. Then the sender's followup-to header will say
to copy them if they need a copy or the list if they don't.
12:39 p.m.
On 20 March 2014 08:25, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
One of the frustrations of having multiple different lists is that we
can't
really easily cross-post, because if people reply but aren't subscribed to
all lists, they get bounces, and the conversation ends up fragmented. Or
the
alternative, multi-posting (same post individually to multiple lists), but
then you're _starting_ with fragmentation.
The radical solution to this would be to use topics, but those require
users
to change their habits (putting topics in the subject or a keywords
header).
So instead, could we (now, or in the mm3 future) make it so any address
subscribed to any public fedora list is automatically added to an accept
filter for all other lists?
I don't know enough of the mailman internals to know how this might be
implemented, butit seems like it must be doable. And there might be some
details to be worked out around removing people, and possible moderation.
But what do you think of the general idea?
I would be -1 to it. The main reasons are:
1) The person who has done this is now cut out of the thread on the lists
he is not subscribed to.
2) The people who are replying to the thread won't know htye aren't talking
with this person again.
3) One of the reasons for subscriber only is to cut down SPAM a little bit.
This is by making sure that if you are going to send crap to every list you
need to subscribe to them. Now you can subscribe to one and get all the
lists as a freebie.
4) There will need to be a ton of meta-logic on which lists this is allowed
to and which lists it is not. There are lists that do not want to be cc'd
random threads no matter how on topic they might be because it is meant to
be a place where only the people on the list can talk (board-private or
similar lists).
5) This will be an out of band patch for both mailman 2 and mailman 3
though probably just mailman 3 because I don't see it being a simple drop
in because of the rules needed in 4. [Does your list allow cross posts from
other lists. Which lists?]
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
3:28 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:39:54AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
I would be -1 to it. The main reasons are:
1) The person who has done this is now cut out of the thread on the lists
he is not subscribed to.
I'm presuming reply-to-all, keeping all the different lists. The above
happens _now_, but more and more people get cut off as various lists get
removed from the to/cc lines depending on who replies.
3) One of the reasons for subscriber only is to cut down SPAM a
little bit.
This is by making sure that if you are going to send crap to every list you
need to subscribe to them. Now you can subscribe to one and get all the
lists as a freebie.
True. Definite downside.
--
Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project -- <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
3684
days inactive
3684
days old
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Bruno Wolff III -
Matthew Miller -
R P Herrold -
Stephen John Smoogen