On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:01 PM, g geleem@bellsouth.net wrote:
with all the problems that mozilla is going thru with firefox, why do you want to cause problems? firefox is no longer #2 browser. gaagle chrome has kicked firefox's butt an dropped it to #3. ... many oos users are dropping firefox in favor of the new oos browser. anyone who is unaware can run a web search on "web browser war" to find out just what is happening.
Well, I believe Rex was just being pragmatic - if you're going to switch,
Firefox (for better or for worse) is really the only choice.
Personally, I prefer Chrome, which for obvious reasons can be a candidate - neither can Chromium because of: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287
IMO this is all a bit needless until KDE decides what they are going to do about Konqueror. If it ends up they are going to abandon it, that would be the time to act. Kevin already discussed what could be done about any critical security issues; and if someone wants to use another browser it is ridiculously simple to install.
I really don't get the urgency or importance of this; I think there are bigger fish to fry.
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:01 PM, g geleem@bellsouth.net wrote:
with all the problems that mozilla is going thru with firefox, why do you want to cause problems? firefox is no longer #2 browser. gaagle chrome has kicked firefox's butt an dropped it to #3. ... many oos users are dropping firefox in favor of the new oos browser. anyone who is unaware can run a web search on "web browser war" to find out just what is happening.
Well, I believe Rex was just being pragmatic - if you're going to switch,
Firefox (for better or for worse) is really the only choice.
Indeed, I had to phrase it like this for some:
of the browsers available in fedora, which one is least bad?
I really don't get the urgency or importance of this; I think there are bigger fish to fry.
Personally, I think it semi-important to ship the most reliable browser available. I'm not spending a lot of time on this however. If this last effort fails, I'll drop it.
Otherwise, feel free to suggest ways of making fedora or the kde spin better. I'd like to hear about these bigger fish of yours. Preferably things that are as specific and as achievalble as possible :)
-- Rex
On Aug 6, 2015 3:53 PM, "Rex Dieter" rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:01 PM, g geleem@bellsouth.net wrote:
with all the problems that mozilla is going thru with firefox, why do you want to cause problems? firefox is no longer #2 browser. gaagle chrome has kicked firefox's butt an dropped it to #3. ... many oos users are dropping firefox in favor of the new oos browser. anyone who is unaware can run a web search on "web browser war" to find out just what is happening.
Well, I believe Rex was just being pragmatic - if you're going to
switch,
Firefox (for better or for worse) is really the only choice.
Indeed, I had to phrase it like this for some:
of the browsers available in fedora, which one is least bad?
I really don't get the urgency or importance of this; I think there are bigger fish to fry.
Personally, I think it semi-important to ship the most reliable browser available. I'm not spending a lot of time on this however. If this last effort fails, I'll drop it.
Otherwise, feel free to suggest ways of making fedora or the kde spin better. I'd like to hear about these bigger fish of yours. Preferably things that are as specific and as achievalble as possible :)
-- Rex
Hey Rex, question for you. Do you know why Fedora KDE didn't ship the user manager that came with the last KDE release? It was out and stable by F22's release, seemed like an odd thing to leave out. Obviously not the biggest concern that we have but I couldn't find any stated reason why it was kept out
--Ericg _______________________________________________
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Eric Griffith wrote:
Hey Rex, question for you. Do you know why Fedora KDE didn't ship the user manager that came with the last KDE release? It was out and stable by F22's release, seemed like an odd thing to leave out. Obviously not the biggest concern that we have but I couldn't find any stated reason why it was
Good question, kde-desktop group in comps inludes 'kuser' so should get installed by default (assuming that's what you're talking about).
If it didn't end up on the spin, I've no idea how that happened.
-- Rex
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
Eric Griffith wrote:
Hey Rex, question for you. Do you know why Fedora KDE didn't ship the
user
manager that came with the last KDE release? It was out and stable by F22's release, seemed like an odd thing to leave out. Obviously not the biggest concern that we have but I couldn't find any stated reason why it was
Good question, kde-desktop group in comps inludes 'kuser' so should get installed by default (assuming that's what you're talking about).
If it didn't end up on the spin, I've no idea how that happened.
-- Rex
Not KUser, the User Manager KCM that was going to be apart of Plasma 5.2. Looking through the release announcements though, it seems like it got cut from the release notes.
Gets mentioned in Plasma 5.2 Beta notes: https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.1.95.php
And then nothing for 5.2.0, 5.3, or 5.4 todo list. Looks like that work might be stalled, or happening privately. Nevermind!
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Eric Griffith wrote:
Not KUser, the User Manager KCM that was going to be apart of Plasma 5.2. Looking through the release announcements though, it seems like it got cut from the release notes.
Gets mentioned in Plasma 5.2 Beta notes: https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.1.95.php
And then nothing for 5.2.0, 5.3, or 5.4 todo list. Looks like that work might be stalled, or happening privately. Nevermind!
I may be wrong, but I think I remember that it was deferred because of functionality overlap with KUser. I think it was supposed to be pushed back to the next release (which would have been 5.3), but I haven't heard about it since. But all this is from memory and I may be mixing things up, so take this with a grain of salt.
Kevin Kofler
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
Personally, I think it semi-important to ship the most reliable browser available. ... Otherwise, feel free to suggest ways of making fedora or the kde spin better. I'd like to hear about these bigger fish of yours. Preferably things that are as specific and as achievalble as possible :)
Yeah, I think this whole topic is pretty much talked out anyway. Regarding bigger fish: There are two issues that I'm still experiencing and here are the related tickets: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1196636 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1217844 Both are related to the Plasma freeze issue.
I've been doing "killall plasmashell ; plasmashell" daily since May and it's getting a little old. Do you know of anything I could do to move this along. I'm about at the stage of buying a new video card, but I shouldn't have to do that. Many people have reported this with various cards (Intel, Nvidia, AMD) and it just seems to be hanging out there with no resolution.
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Gerald B. Cox gbcox@bzb.us wrote:
Do you know of anything I could do to move this along. I'm about at the stage of buying a new video card, but I shouldn't have to do that.
Rex, just saw your update to the ticket... Thanks, will do. You don't need to reply here.
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
Yeah, I think this whole topic is pretty much talked out anyway. Regarding bigger fish: There are two issues that I'm still experiencing and here are the related tickets: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1196636 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1217844 Both are related to the Plasma freeze issue.
I assure you, if those were easily fixable with the available manpower available, it would have been done by now.
At this point, with the data available, it appears these are bugs in non-kde components, so it's largely out of our (kde-sig) hands to much about either. :(
-- Rex
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Rex Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu wrote:
At this point, with the data available, it appears these are bugs in non-kde components, so it's largely out of our (kde-sig) hands to much about either. :(
I know, I'm just whining... ;-)
I did see your update in the one ticket, I'll do another trace when it re-occurs.
Gerald B. Cox wrote:
Uh, that bug was reported against Plasma 4, does it still happen in Plasma 5?
Kevin Kofler
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Uh, that bug was reported against Plasma 4, does it still happen in Plasma 5?
Hey Kevin,
That one may be a variation of a similar theme. I reported: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1217844
and I didn't encounter an issue until Plasma 5, so they may or may not be different.
It's easy enough to work around, just annoying. Just need to remember to keep a konsole open so I can run the trace when it happens.
Pros 1) We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in) 2) Very active upstream. 3) Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look similar on all platforms. 4) Better support for internet video 5) Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you compare Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked. 6) Support for addons to extend the functionality. 7) Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster. 8) Firefox is faster than Konq.
Pros Less integration with Plasma desktop and KDE apps.
Mustafa Muhammad
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com wrote:
- We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not
chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in)
Google Chrome is the Chromium open source project built, packaged, and distributed by Google. Chrome is Chromium with some closed source stuff added. As far as VP9, WebP, and future technologies, you're going to get that experience far faster in Chromium than Firefox. If you're concerned about YouTube, it's the way to go. I have yet to find an extension in the Chrome store which does not work in Chromium.
If we're talking popularity, and compatibility with all the new bells/whistles - Chromium/Chrome is it. So if we set default based upon popularity everyone should be watching: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287 - because once that is resolved, Chromium will be the new default.
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Gerald B. Cox gbcox@bzb.us wrote:
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com wrote:
- We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not
chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in)
Google Chrome is the Chromium open source project built, packaged, and distributed by Google. Chrome is Chromium with some closed source stuff added. As far as VP9, WebP, and future technologies, you're going to get that experience far faster in Chromium than Firefox. If you're concerned about YouTube, it's the way to go. I have yet to find an extension in the Chrome store which does not work in Chromium.
If we're talking popularity, and compatibility with all the new bells/whistles - Chromium/Chrome is it. So if we set default based upon popularity everyone should be watching: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287 - because once that is resolved, Chromium will be the new default.
I have no problem with Chromium, I didn't mention it because it is not in
Fedora, if you prefer it to Firefox, let it be the default. The important thing is that Fedora KDE users gets a good browser by default, Firefox and Chromium are both fine.
Mustafa
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Mustafa Muhammad composed on 2015-08-07 15:03 (UTC+0300):
Pros
- We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not
chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in) 2) Very active upstream. 3) Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look similar on all platforms. 4) Better support for internet video 5) Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you compare Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked. 6) Support for addons to extend the functionality. 7) Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster. 8) Firefox is faster than Konq.
Pros Less integration with Plasma desktop and KDE apps.
Able on display screens with pixel densities other than 96 (most screens) to render web pages as intended that use physical units (pt, cm, in, mm, etc.). No "current" rendering engine except KHTML can do this, except that Geckos can if the pages are restyled to use the proprietary unit mozmm.
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
Pros
- We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not
chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in)
There is another way to look at that. We will have the least popular rendering engine (except KHTML, but I don't consider it relevant since QtWebKit is the default in konq).
- Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look similar
on all platforms.
Why is this an issue? Browsers are a location bar and tabs. They all look the same.
- Better support for internet video
That is not true. Konq supports the same amount of video formats as Firefox fedora (VP8 only). If you want h264 you have to go through some configuration for both browsers.
- Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you compare
Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked.
Doesn't really help if they don't target your rendering engine.
- Support for addons to extend the functionality.
I think this is the best argument for making Firefox default, as that is a thing that users actually miss. But with Firefox having made an 1) extremely insecure plugin structure and 2) creating an Apple like authentication scheme, it kinds of comes back in a negative way. And while users may accept this, IMO its not something Fedora should default on to people.
- Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security
vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster.
There are more users on WebKit (Safari is more popular than Firefox, atleast in my country), the devs do you have numbers that actually quantify that statement?
- Firefox is faster than Konq.
This is only relevant for people opening a lot of tabs. Which usually (in my experience) overlap with people being able to install their own browsers.
Pros Less integration with Plasma desktop and KDE apps.
Here are some more cons: - The kWallet plugin is BROKEN (which means that if you actually want password protection you have to enable it yourself and write in a separate password). - Upstream is pushing for more and more sharing of personal data. - Linux support for stuff has been dabbing off a lot lately compared to Blink based browsers. - Extension system is not good. - HW support is in a testing state, at best. - Flash is a lost cause (it might not be a big deal in some time, but right now people actually use it)
I would like to express my support for Kevin Koflers suggestion of just keeping Konq until there actually is a good alternative as now it only seems we are changing to abide by some people that is fully capable of installing Firefox them self. Even if you install Firefox by default, the users that you would target with "Can't install a new browser" would be the ones you would be better off installing proprietary Chrome for anyways.
- Sindre
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Sindre Wetjen sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
Even if you install Firefox by default, the users that you would target with "Can't install a new browser" would be the ones you would be better off installing proprietary Chrome for anyways.
Exactly! Even now you still need Flash, which isn't included. If you can figure out how to install Flash you certainly can cope with the trivial task of installing another browser.
On Aug 8, 2015 4:55 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
Pros
- We will have the most popular open source browser, only chrome (not
chromium) has more users than Firefox and it's not fully open source (it had flash built in)
There is another way to look at that. We will have the least popular
rendering
engine (except KHTML, but I don't consider it relevant since QtWebKit is
the
default in konq).
And this is a bad thing.
- Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look
similar
on all platforms.
Why is this an issue? Browsers are a location bar and tabs. They all look
the
same.
It is not a big issue, this is what I am trying to say.
- Better support for internet video
That is not true. Konq supports the same amount of video formats as
Firefox
fedora (VP8 only). If you want h264 you have to go through some
configuration
for both browsers.
Firefox is implementing media source extensions, which is required for VP9 in YouTube and probably in other websites.
- Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you compare
Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked.
Doesn't really help if they don't target your rendering engine.
I didn't understand what you are trying to say.
- Support for addons to extend the functionality.
I think this is the best argument for making Firefox default, as that is a thing that users actually miss. But with Firefox having made an 1)
extremely
insecure plugin structure and 2) creating an Apple like authentication
scheme,
it kinds of comes back in a negative way. And while users may accept
this, IMO
its not something Fedora should default on to people.
- Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security
vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster.
There are more users on WebKit (Safari is more popular than Firefox,
atleast
in my country), the devs do you have numbers that actually quantify that statement?
https://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2015-06/SquidReportClients...
- Firefox is faster than Konq.
This is only relevant for people opening a lot of tabs. Which usually (in
my
experience) overlap with people being able to install their own browsers.
Pros Less integration with Plasma desktop and KDE apps.
Here are some more cons:
- The kWallet plugin is BROKEN (which means that if you actually want
password
protection you have to enable it yourself and write in a separate
password).
- Upstream is pushing for more and more sharing of personal data.
- Linux support for stuff has been dabbing off a lot lately compared to
Blink
based browsers.
- Extension system is not good.
- HW support is in a testing state, at best.
- Flash is a lost cause (it might not be a big deal in some time, but
right
now people actually use it)
I would like to express my support for Kevin Koflers suggestion of just
keeping
Konq until there actually is a good alternative as now it only seems we
are
changing to abide by some people that is fully capable of installing
Firefox
them self. Even if you install Firefox by default, the users that you
would
target with "Can't install a new browser" would be the ones you would be better off installing proprietary Chrome for anyways.
- Sindre
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
On Aug 8, 2015 4:55 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
There is another way to look at that. We will have the least popular rendering engine (except KHTML, but I don't consider it relevant since QtWebKit is the default in konq).
And this is a bad thing.
Read the context, you just wrote that shipping Firefox would be a bad thing. Thanks! :-p
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
- Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look
similar on all platforms.
Why is this an issue? Browsers are a location bar and tabs. They all look the same.
It is not a big issue, this is what I am trying to say.
Well, a browser is actually more than a location bar and tabs. A browser also has a toolbar with icons, it has file dialogs for downloads, it has preferences, etc. And for those, looking and feeling like the other applications on the desktop environment is more important than looking and feeling like Firefox on another operating system.
The location bar and the tabs indeed behave similarly in all browsers, so indeed, as Sindre wrote, familiarity should not be an issue. Thus there is no advantage for Firefox there. And that said, the tabs also have a visual style, which should match the desktop environment, and Konqueror's location bar supports those nice "web shortcuts" (e.g. "gg:") that make the search bar redundant (without unsafe guesswork such as sending all typoed or temporarily down URLs to Google, ewww!) and allow power users to disable it. So even there, Konqueror wins.
Kevin Kofler
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
On Aug 8, 2015 4:55 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
There is another way to look at that. We will have the least popular rendering engine (except KHTML, but I don't consider it relevant since QtWebKit is the default in konq).
And this is a bad thing.
Read the context, you just wrote that shipping Firefox would be a bad thing. Thanks! :-p
:) QtWebKit is less popular than Gecko :)
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
- Familiar experience for first time users, Firefox tries to look
similar on all platforms.
Why is this an issue? Browsers are a location bar and tabs. They all
look
the same.
It is not a big issue, this is what I am trying to say.
Well, a browser is actually more than a location bar and tabs. A browser also has a toolbar with icons, it has file dialogs for downloads, it has preferences, etc. And for those, looking and feeling like the other applications on the desktop environment is more important than looking and feeling like Firefox on another operating system.
Dialogs, Preferences, and others are well integrated with the look and
feel of the whole "browser".
The location bar and the tabs indeed behave similarly in all browsers, so indeed, as Sindre wrote, familiarity should not be an issue. Thus there is no advantage for Firefox there. And that said, the tabs also have a visual style, which should match the desktop environment, and Konqueror's location bar supports those nice "web shortcuts" (e.g. "gg:") that make the search bar redundant (without unsafe guesswork such as sending all typoed or temporarily down URLs to Google, ewww!) and allow power users to disable it. So even there, Konqueror wins.
I used gg before, after digging for it, I think most users don't know it exist.
Kevin Kofler
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
On Sunday 09 August 2015 09:33:15 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
On Aug 8, 2015 4:55 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
Pros 4) Better support for internet video
That is not true. Konq supports the same amount of video formats as
Firefox
fedora (VP8 only). If you want h264 you have to go through some
configuration
for both browsers.
Firefox is implementing media source extensions, which is required for VP9 in YouTube and probably in other websites.
What Firefox has in the future is not relevant now. It will also be interesting to see what the MPEG-consortium does with the DASH licensing (I've read some news about them considering taking money for it) which youtube use in combination with the VP9 video streaming. This could prevent Firefox from getting VP9 for quite some time, at least for smooth youtube streaming.
- Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you compare
Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked.
Doesn't really help if they don't target your rendering engine.
I didn't understand what you are trying to say.
If you don't write web pages that use the exact number of things that FF support as opposed to e.g Chrome, then it will not work in FF.
- Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security
vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster.
There are more users on WebKit (Safari is more popular than Firefox,
atleast
in my country), the devs do you have numbers that actually quantify that statement?
https://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2015-06/SquidReportClients .htm
Did you take into account the Mobile views?
On Aug 9, 2015 5:13 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 09 August 2015 09:33:15 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
On Aug 8, 2015 4:55 PM, "Sindre Wetjen" sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 07 August 2015 15:03:41 Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
Pros 4) Better support for internet video
That is not true. Konq supports the same amount of video formats as
Firefox
fedora (VP8 only). If you want h264 you have to go through some
configuration
for both browsers.
Firefox is implementing media source extensions, which is required for
VP9
in YouTube and probably in other websites.
What Firefox has in the future is not relevant now. It will also be interesting to see what the MPEG-consortium does with the DASH licensing
(I've
read some news about them considering taking money for it) which youtube
use
in combination with the VP9 video streaming. This could prevent Firefox
from
getting VP9 for quite some time, at least for smooth youtube streaming.
This is not likely, they said this about VP9 and nobody did anything, I don't really know.
- Much better support for the latest standard (HTML 5), if you
compare
Konq to Firefox in http://html5test.com you will be shocked.
Doesn't really help if they don't target your rendering engine.
I didn't understand what you are trying to say.
If you don't write web pages that use the exact number of things that FF support as opposed to e.g Chrome, then it will not work in FF.
- Higher number of users and developers mean bugs and security
vulnerabilities gets found and fixed faster.
There are more users on WebKit (Safari is more popular than Firefox,
atleast
in my country), the devs do you have numbers that actually quantify
that
statement?
https://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2015-06/SquidReportClients
.htm
Did you take into account the Mobile views?
No, I only checked desktop browsers since developers target a specific form factor by a specific version of their site, but I can see if we add desktop and mobile them Safari has higher number of users. The problem with QtWebKit is that it is very much behind upstream WebKit development. When Chromium used WebKit it was several years ahead of QtWebKit.
Mustafa
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Am 09.08.2015 um 18:59 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
Did you take into account the Mobile views?
No, I only checked desktop browsers since developers target a specific form factor by a specific version of their site
nonsense
developers *did* target a specific form factor that days are gone for sure?
from where i know this?
well, it's my daily job and most customers with websites made a few years ago insisting in a relaunch with a "responsive design" especially after Google started to take that massive into account for ranking
On Aug 9, 2015 8:06 PM, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 09.08.2015 um 18:59 schrieb Mustafa Muhammad:
Did you take into account the Mobile views?
No, I only checked desktop browsers since developers target a specific form factor by a specific version of their site
nonsense
developers *did* target a specific form factor that days are gone for sure?
from where i know this?
well, it's my daily job and most customers with websites made a few years
ago insisting in a relaunch with a "responsive design" especially after Google started to take that massive into account for ranking
OK, I didn't know this.
But QtWebKit is not on par with upstream WebKit, not even close, not when Chromium used WebKit, and not now. Chromium is a very good choice, it also integrates well with kwallet, but it is not in Fedora.
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com wrote:
OK, I didn't know this.
But QtWebKit is not on par with upstream WebKit, not even close, not when Chromium used WebKit, and not now. Chromium is a very good choice, it also integrates well with kwallet, but it is not in Fedora.
You can get it from Tom's copr if you want to play around with it... https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/spot/chromium/
It's really nice, and as I've mentioned before I have yet to find an extension from the Chrome store that doesn't work.
It's still being blocked by: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287
That said however, I'm not suggesting it replace Konqueror as the default. If people want it, or Chrome for that matter, it's a trivial matter to install.
On Aug 9, 2015 8:34 PM, "Gerald B. Cox" gbcox@bzb.us wrote:
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com
wrote:
OK, I didn't know this.
But QtWebKit is not on par with upstream WebKit, not even close, not
when Chromium used WebKit, and not now.
Chromium is a very good choice, it also integrates well with kwallet,
but it is not in Fedora.
You can get it from Tom's copr if you want to play around with it... https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/spot/chromium/
It's really nice, and as I've mentioned before I have yet to find an
extension from the Chrome store
that doesn't work.
It's still being blocked by:
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287
Thank you, I'll test it, I usually use Firefox and Chrome (from Google), but I meant for Fedora KDE.
That said however, I'm not suggesting it replace Konqueror as the
default. If people want it, or
Chrome for that matter, it's a trivial matter to install.
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On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you, I'll test it, I usually use Firefox and Chrome (from Google), but I meant for Fedora KDE.
No problem... regarding Flash... Chrome comes with the latest and greatest version; it's incorporated into the build. Chromium has no flash, so you need to install it separately...and the version for Linux is no longer being developed - so it's stuck at 11.2 whereas the version bundled in Chrome is now at 19.0.
You can extract Flash from Chrome so it can be used in Chromium, but that seems a bit too much of a hassle, just to use Chromium. If you're concerned about the latest version of Flash, you should just use Chrome. It's easier.
Gerald B. Cox ha scritto:
No problem... regarding Flash... Chrome comes with the latest and greatest version; it's incorporated into the build. Chromium has no flash, so you need to install it separately...and the version for Linux is no longer being developed - so it's stuck at 11.2 whereas the version bundled in Chrome is now at 19.0.
You can extract Flash from Chrome so it can be used in Chromium, but that seems a bit too much of a hassle, just to use Chromium. If you're concerned about the latest version of Flash, you should just use Chrome. It's easier.
We are going totally OT here, but it's not an hassle. Debian made it easy for their users: https://packages.debian.org/unstable/pepperflashplugin-nonfree
Ciao
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Luigi Toscano luigi.toscano@tiscali.it wrote:
We are going totally OT here, but it's not an hassle. Debian made it easy for their users: https://packages.debian.org/unstable/pepperflashplugin-nonfree
Yes, I am aware of that... but for Fedora, that would need to be put either in rpmfusion or someone would have to post it in a non-Fedora repo; plus the fact you're tracking and downloading Chrome whenever there is a Flash update to do the extraction - so to me at least, seems a little pointless of you're concerned about keeping current with Flash. You might as well just get the real thing.
On Sunday 09 August 2015 10:34:48 Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Mustafa Muhammad mustafa1024m@gmail.com
wrote:
OK, I didn't know this.
But QtWebKit is not on par with upstream WebKit, not even close, not when Chromium used WebKit, and not now.
Its hard to find any real data on this. If you have any, please share. Granted WebKit is lagging behind and Safari (the only major browser using it) is being called the new IE6, but it is still an active and popular rendering engine.
Chromium is a very good choice, it also integrates well with kwallet, but it is not in Fedora.
.... (cut)
That said however, I'm not suggesting it replace Konqueror as the default. If people want it, or Chrome for that matter, it's a trivial matter to install.
Actually, that makes much more sense. (to be clear, Chromium not Chrome) - It has better support for a lot of things. - It is targeted by more developers which means that less things will go wrong - It integrates better with KDE. - Google has not yet decided to enforce any central control on it. - It is possible to get "new" flash. - The UI is familiar and can be synced with existing accounts for a larger part of the population.
And if what Kevin said about the development of Blink is true, then there is still a hope we can get it in Fedora.
Off course this is all in the future, but I think it underlines the unnecessary change to Firefox because it is not a good choice either for non-power users.
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Sindre Wetjen sindre.w@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 09 August 2015 10:34:48 Gerald B. Cox wrote:
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Mustafa Muhammad <
mustafa1024m@gmail.com>
wrote:
OK, I didn't know this.
But QtWebKit is not on par with upstream WebKit, not even close, not
when
Chromium used WebKit, and not now.
Its hard to find any real data on this. If you have any, please share. Granted WebKit is lagging behind and Safari (the only major browser using it) is being called the new IE6, but it is still an active and popular rendering engine.
You can test Konq on your machine, for me I get 355 in html5test.com Chrome switched to Blink in version 28 I tested Konqueror 355
From the site [1]
Chrome 24 433 Safari 9 400 Safari 8 396
So even 2 years ago, Chrome is ahead of what we have now.
[1] http://html5test.com/compare/browser/chrome-24/safari-9.0/safari-8.0.html http://html5test.com/compare/browser/chrome-24/safari-9.0/safari-8.0.html
Chromium is a very good choice, it also integrates well with kwallet,
but
it is not in Fedora.
.... (cut)
That said however, I'm not suggesting it replace Konqueror as the
default.
If people want it, or Chrome for that matter, it's a trivial matter to install.
Actually, that makes much more sense. (to be clear, Chromium not Chrome)
- It has better support for a lot of things.
- It is targeted by more developers which means that less things will go
wrong
- It integrates better with KDE.
- Google has not yet decided to enforce any central control on it.
- It is possible to get "new" flash.
- The UI is familiar and can be synced with existing accounts for a larger
part of the population.
And if what Kevin said about the development of Blink is true, then there is still a hope we can get it in Fedora.
Off course this is all in the future, but I think it underlines the unnecessary change to Firefox because it is not a good choice either for non-power users. _______________________________________________ kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Sindre Wetjen wrote:
Off course this is all in the future, but I think it underlines the unnecessary change to Firefox because it is not a good choice either for non-power users.
What in your view is the best choice for a regular or non-power user?
As a regular user, I find Firefox best suits my purposes at this moment, and I suspect that that is the view of most regular users of Fedora KDE.
I obviously live in a different universe to most contributors to this newsgroup, as "look-and-feel" has little impact on my choice. The issue that would have the most impact is probably what is available on Android, and again I suspect I may be in the majority there. (I have tried KDE on my mobile phone, but the experience was not entirely positive.)
I understand Kevin's desire to keep KDE "pure" (it reminds me slightly of Richard Stallman), and as he is a (the?) major contributor to the project it seems to me he has the right to choose the colour of the flag.
Incidentally, the term "power user" seems to me to be used in two entirely different senses: 1. as a synonym for guru or geek, 2. to describe those who need a powerful computer for their purposes, eg computer games addicts.
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Eric Griffith -
Felix Miata -
Gerald B. Cox -
Kevin Kofler -
Luigi Toscano -
Mustafa Muhammad -
Reindl Harald -
Rex Dieter -
Sindre Wetjen -
Timothy Murphy