4:30 p.m.
Hello,
With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been
changed. I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it
is due to conflicts between configuration files.
I have searched for a answer on locations but I have not found one.
I want to delete/move some files to see what is causing my problems.
On test accounts that I have created, I don't have any issues so I want
to check this out.
Robin
4:38 p.m.
Am 19.12.2015 um 23:30 schrieb Robin Laing:
With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or
been
changed
which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
* read your old configs
* convert them when *rellay* needed
* act as before
anything else is poort developement far away from users, and YES i know
that it can sometimes be hard after maintain spftware vor more than a
decade - but it is possible when you *really* care about users
if it#s not possible - rethink your change that make you think so - in
most cases you did bullshit and change for the sake of change o at least
not deserved enough
the disasters KDE3->KDE4 and KDE4->KDE5 are the reason "ordinary users"
never will switch to Linux and even expierienced users better shut up
insetad tell them something will get better for a long term
4:56 p.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
...
OK, moderation is happening again. This is your final warning to clean up
your conduct on this list.
You're on probation, further violations of the expected code of conduct will
likely result in your being banned from this list.
-- Rex
5:03 p.m.
Am 19.12.2015 um 23:56 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
...
OK, moderation is happening again. This is your final warning to clean up
your conduct on this list.
You're on probation, further violations of the expected code of conduct will
likely result in your being banned from this list
if you think so ban me from the list - but then i stop updates-testing
and especially download koji-builds to give early feedback and just wait
until enough other people recognized regressions like kdelibs today
did i insult anyone personally?
no!
i described the situation for endusers
if you want shiny feedback just wait the next tme fopr KDE 6.6 or better
KDE 6.15 which hopefully not have that negative impact for your userbase
as KDE4/KDE5 on Fedora had
8:28 a.m.
On 12/19/2015 04:56 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> which KDE upstream should realize is pure bullshit
...
OK, moderation is happening again. This is your final warning to clean up
your conduct on this list.
I agree. I've been disappointed with Plasma 5 myself, especially the
glacial pace of bug fixes for things like session save early on and
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345403
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336089
(both of which are still broken).
But Harald, your posts are just... depressing. Have some ice cream and
chill out.
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
5:03 p.m.
Robin Laing wrote:
With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or
been
changed. I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it
is due to conflicts between configuration files.
In general, kde4 applications use
config: ~/.kde/share/config
data: ~/.kde/share/apps/
and kf5/plasma5 applications use:
config: ~/.config/
data: ~/.local/share/
as you can see, old kde4 configurations in general ought not conflict, since
those old locations are no longer used.
-- Rex
6:24 p.m.
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
kf5/plasma5 applications use:
config: ~/.config
Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/ than
all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to selectively
backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or .config/kde5 and/or
something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4 were, and
~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer, ~/.config/chromium
and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter and decide it posed no
problem being so different from other apps?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
6:41 p.m.
Felix Miata wrote:
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
> config: ~/.config
Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
.config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter
and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG
standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs if
you prefer something other than their default locations.
-- Rex
6:53 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>
>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>
>> config: ~/.config
>
> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this clutter
> and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG
standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs if
you prefer something other than their default locations
but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
of the configuration - until today i have not figured out what files to
replicate from my user-account to /root/ to have the same settings up to
toolbar there
6:55 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:53 schrieb Reindl Harald:
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>
>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>>
>>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>>
>>> config: ~/.config
>>
>> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
>> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
>> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
>> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
>> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
>> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
>> clutter
>> and decide it posed no problem being so different from other apps?
>
> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> XDG
> standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> XDG_DATA_HOME on
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>
> NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own
> needs if
> you prefer something other than their default locations
but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
of the configuration - until today i have not figured out what files to
replicate from my user-account to /root/ to have the same settings up to
toolbar there
forgot to mention: kate (the thing permanently change owner/groups)
a smart design would be ~/.local/kate/
6:58 p.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>
>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>>
>>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>>
>>> config: ~/.config
>>
>> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
>> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
>> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
>> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
>> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
>> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
>> clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
>> apps?
>
> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
> XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
> XDG_DATA_HOME on
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>
> NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
> if you prefer something other than their default locations
but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
of the configuration
You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
-- Rex
7:02 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:58 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
>> Felix Miata wrote:
>>
>>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>>>
>>>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>>>
>>>> config: ~/.config
>>>
>>> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
>>> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
>>> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
>>> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
>>> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
>>> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
>>> clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
>>> apps?
>>
>> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
>> XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
>> XDG_DATA_HOME on
>> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>>
>> NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
>> if you prefer something other than their default locations
>
> but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
> of the configuration
You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
just to backup and restore?
[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry/ | grep kate
/home/harry/.config/katepartrc
/home/harry/.config/katerc
/home/harry/.config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.config/katevirc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart/katepartui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartindentjscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartpluginsrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katerc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katercJ13485.new
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katescriptingrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.local/share/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/applications/kde4-kate.desktop
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/anonymous.katesession
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart/katepart5ui.rc
7:05 p.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
> You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard
specifications?
i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
And that seems to vary from the specification. If you want the
specification changed, I'd suggest you take that up with freedesktop.org.
In the meantime, varying from the spec is a non-starter, imho.
what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine
or
just to backup and restore?
At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
-- Rex
7:09 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 02:05 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
>> You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
>
> i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
And that seems to vary from the specification. If you want the
specification changed, I'd suggest you take that up with freedesktop.org.
In the meantime, varying from the spec is a non-starter, imho.
you can follow the specs without create a mess
> what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another
machine or
> just to backup and restore?
At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
fine - a mess
a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for
whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings
"~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke
with "~/.config/kate/" OR "~/.local/share/kate/" (the directory is the
important point if someone thinks one rc-file is noth enough) you could
simply rsync the settings - and kate is just *one* example
7:15 p.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
you can follow the specs without create a mess
OK, how exactly? I'm genuinely curious how we can have bot The only
concrete suggestion you made so far didn't follow the specification.
>> what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another
machine or
>> just to backup and restore?
>
> At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
fine - a mess
a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for
whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings
"~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke
I was erring on the side of caution, most likely all that is required is the
single
~/.config/katerc
but it also depends on your defintion of "kate config". Does that include
the kate kpart plugin that can be used in other applications?
Remember, ~/.local/share is for application *data*, does that count as
configuration to you?
-- Rex
7:19 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 02:15 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> you can follow the specs without create a mess
OK, how exactly? I'm genuinely curious how we can have bot The only
concrete suggestion you made so far didn't follow the specification.
>>> what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
>>> just to backup and restore?
>>
>> At a guess, anything that matches: ~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/
>
> fine - a mess
>
> a sane application would just have *one* config file or if that is for
> whatever reason not enough *one folder* containing all its settings
>
> "~/.config/kate* ~/.local/share/kate/" is a joke
I was erring on the side of caution, most likely all that is required is the
single
~/.config/katerc
but it also depends on your defintion of "kate config". Does that include
the kate kpart plugin that can be used in other applications?
Remember, ~/.local/share is for application *data*, does that count as
configuration to you?
well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data
the desired result is: let a kde application appear identically on a
different user account or after a restore including anything from
tab-width, show line numbers, default charset up to toolabr settings and
positions
3:57 a.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 04:28 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
> questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data
How is this any different than the kde4 case?
Remember, kde4 also separated config and data too
* missing settings migration at all
* as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
* old configs are not migrated nor removed
* the whole userhome became a mess
NO it is no solution start with a fresh userhome because there are other
imporant things to (and they mostly use their own subfolder with a clear
name) and since a large part of the stuff ist still not KDE5 *there is
no way* to get out of the mess
[harry@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry | grep kate | wc -l
47
at least a large part was in a subfolder
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession
8:54 a.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 20.12.2015 um 04:28 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
>> well, the real problem is that i am even not able to answer that
>> questions because i have no idea what is considered as application data
>
> How is this any different than the kde4 case?
> Remember, kde4 also separated config and data too
* missing settings migration at all
* as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
* old configs are not migrated nor removed
* the whole userhome became a mess
OK, can we stay on one topic at a time please? It's hard to carry on a
conversation if you keep changing the goalposts.
-- Rex
9:17 a.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
* missing settings migration at all
* old configs are not migrated nor removed
I'll concede lack of migration in general.
I'd argue removing old configs would be bad though, so -1 on that
suggestion.
* as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
* Most users don't care.
* Users that *do* care, can easily find out via about->app and/or about-
about kde
* the whole userhome became a mess
* Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
* *became* a mess? It's no messier than kde4 was
-- Rex
10:38 a.m.
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 09:17 (UTC-0600):
* Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
Only in theory, not the way done with KF5. If the XDG_CONFIG_HOME spec
actually permits ordinary files rather than directories its root, then its
broken.
* *became* a mess? It's no messier than kde4 was
Sure it is, because KDE4 confined its files to directory branches not
containing files belonging to other apps.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
12:47 p.m.
Am 20.12.2015 um 16:17 schrieb Rex Dieter:
Reindl Harald wrote:
> * missing settings migration at all
> * old configs are not migrated nor removed
I'll concede lack of migration in general.
which leaded that after upgrade to F22 i stared to a more or less
default KDE with all customizations gone, at that point not working
systray, all quickstarters where gone, menu-entries for the most used
applications did no longer work because missing "ksystraycmd" and the
first thing i faced where crashes and error messages like a star wars movie
I'd argue removing old configs would be bad though, so -1 on
that
suggestion.
after a succesful migration they have to go away or at least get
collected in a own folder where it is clear that this is old stuff
> * as user you have *no idea* if something is still a KDE4 app
* Most users don't care
that users don't care if they have KDE3/KDE4/KDE5
the ones who care are nearly unable to cleanup their userhome
* Users that *do* care, can easily find out via about->app and/or
about-
> about kde
in theory
darw me a clear picture "dolphin", "konqueror (as file manager)" and
"folder-view" what is using what (besides missing translations for
folderview which *seems* to be KDE5 because it don't care about my
service-menus and settings from konqueror)
> * the whole userhome became a mess
* Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
* *became* a mess? It's no messier than kde4 was
*nothing* is clearer when applications are throwing multiple singel
files around instead sit in a folder named like the application
and since thats all more or less KDE point me to the part of xdg specs
which forbid "/kde5/application-name/"-structures
a *clear* layout would have been
~/.local/share/kde5/appname/
~/.config/kde5/appname/
which makes it easy replicate or backup/restore settings as well as get
rid of old files after you made sure "appname2 was migrated to KF5
12:51 p.m.
Reindl Harald wrote:
> * Following xdg specifications makes things clearer.
> * *became* a mess? It's no messier than kde4 was
*nothing* is clearer when applications are throwing multiple singel
files around instead sit in a folder named like the application
and since thats all more or less KDE point me to the part of xdg specs
which forbid "/kde5/application-name/"-structures
a *clear* layout would have been
~/.local/share/kde5/appname/
~/.config/kde5/appname/
Maybe, but
* no one else does it that way
* what's done is done, migrating/changing *again* would lead to even more
churn, for dubious results
-- Rex
2:56 p.m.
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
> a *clear* layout would have been
...
> ~/.config/kde5/...
Maybe, but
* no one else does it that way
Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
SMPlayer, MPV and others?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:02 a.m.
Felix Miata wrote:
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>> a *clear* layout would have been
...
>> ~/.config/kde5/...
> Maybe, but
> * no one else does it that way
Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
SMPlayer, MPV and others?
There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't see
it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
-- Rex
10:49 a.m.
Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-21 10:02 (UTC-0600):
Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>>> a *clear* layout would have been
> ...
>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>> Maybe, but
>> * no one else does it that way
> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig,
MC,
> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/,
and
upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
Should there be? Does it matter?
Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
Gtk has been around to get set in its ways since the beginning of time, long
before the latest XDG spec you profess to be so great. That it allows, if
indeed it actually does allow, what IF5 has done, means XDG is broken.
I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really
can't see
it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
Could be it's past time to get your glasses checked. One disadvantage is
glaring. Since KF5, ~/.config is a mess, definitely worse than keeping config
files in ~/.kde.
What advantage(s) is/are there?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
10:58 a.m.
On 21/12/15 04:02 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>
>>> a *clear* layout would have been
> ...
>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>
>> Maybe, but
>> * no one else does it that way
>
> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
Well, gtk is not a desktop environment... but this is what I see on my machine:
$ ll .config/lxqt/
total 40
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 28 Nov 13 22:11 desktop.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 2851 Nov 14 10:14 globalkeyshortcuts.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 175 Nov 14 10:59 lxqt.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 94 Nov 13 22:11 lxqt-powermanagement.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 48 Nov 14 10:24 lxqt-runner.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 28 Nov 13 22:11 notifications.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 2281 Nov 14 10:55 panel.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 28 Nov 13 22:11 power.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 163 Nov 14 10:58 session.conf
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 28 Nov 13 22:23 windowmanagers.conf
$ ll .config/openbox/
total 28
-rw-rw-r--. 1 thufor thufor 25661 Nov 14 10:54 rc.xml
...and many apps as well. Just a point of data for discussion, not an opinion.
11:36 a.m.
Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
On 21/12/15 04:02 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>
>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>>
>>>> a *clear* layout would have been
>> ...
>>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>>
>>> Maybe, but
>>> * no one else does it that way
>>
>> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
>> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
>
> There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
>
> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
Well, gtk is not a desktop environment... but this is what I see on my
machine:
and in the context of this thread, neither is kwin or konsole or kate a
desktop environment either.
-- Rex
2:55 p.m.
On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>
>>> a *clear* layout would have been
> ...
>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>
>> Maybe, but
>> * no one else does it that way
>
> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't see
it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
-- Rex
_______________________________________________
kde mailing list
kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues
with KDE. It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory
is a mess.
44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see. It would be
much nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory. There
is a kde.org directory as well with one file. A sign of the future?
There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.
The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the
headers within the files.
Robin
2:58 p.m.
If I remember right the GTK files are so GTK apps use the KDE / Qt theme.
So that makes sense, yeah.
On Dec 31, 2015 15:56, "Robin Laing" <MeSat(a)telusplanet.net> wrote:
On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>>
>> a *clear* layout would have been
>>>>
>>> ...
>>
>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>>>>
>>>
>> Maybe, but
>>> * no one else does it that way
>>>
>>
>> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
>> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
>>
>
> There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
>
> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
>
> I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't
> see
> it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
>
> -- Rex
> _______________________________________________
> kde mailing list
> kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues
with KDE. It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory is
a mess.
44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see. It would be much
nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory. There is a
kde.org directory as well with one file. A sign of the future?
There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.
The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the headers
within the files.
Robin
_______________________________________________
kde mailing list
kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
2:08 p.m.
On 31/12/15 13:58, Eric Griffith wrote:
If I remember right the GTK files are so GTK apps use the KDE / Qt
theme.
So that makes sense, yeah.
On Dec 31, 2015 15:56, "Robin Laing" <MeSat(a)telusplanet.net> wrote:
> On 21/12/15 09:02, Rex Dieter wrote:
>
>> Felix Miata wrote:
>>
>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-20 12:51 (UTC-0600):
>>>
>>> a *clear* layout would have been
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>> ~/.config/kde5/...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> Maybe, but
>>>> * no one else does it that way
>>>>
>>>
>>> Seriously? You mean besides LibreOffice, Chrom*, VLC, Fontconfig, MC,
>>> SMPlayer, MPV and others?
>>>
>>
>> There's a difference between application, e.g. ~/.confing/vlc/, and
>> upstream/toolkit, e.g. ~/.config/kde5/
>>
>> Similarly, I don't see any ~/.config/gtk/ for all gtk apps.
>>
>> I can see the appeal of wanting something like that, but I really can't
>> see
>> it's advantages outweighing the disadvantages of doing so.
>>
>> -- Rex
>> _______________________________________________
>> kde mailing list
>> kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
>>
> Just trashed my ~/.config directory and started again due to the issues
> with KDE. It did fix the problems, it seems but the ~/.config directory is
> a mess.
>
> 44 files for kde configurations from what I quickly see. It would be much
> nicer to have the kde related files in a single directory. There is a
> kde.org directory as well with one file. A sign of the future?
>
> There is a gtk-2.0 directory, gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files as well.
>
> The gtkrc and gtkrc-2.0 files were created by KDE according to the headers
> within the files.
>
> Robin
>
Having just upgraded two computers from KDE4 to KDE5, the arrangement of
the config files is a nightmare.
It would be nice if KDE could consolidate the config files into the
kde.org directory.
Robin
2:59 a.m.
On Saturday 02 Jan 2016 1:08:27 PM Robin Laing wrote:
Having just upgraded two computers from KDE4 to KDE5, the arrangement
of
the config files is a nightmare.
It would be nice if KDE could consolidate the config files into the
kde.org directory.
I wonder why the upstream didn't choose $HOME/.config/plasma for config files
instead of using the base directory.
As far as clearing an app's config/data Android's approach is much superior.
Options like 'Clear Data' and 'Clear Cache' in either System Settings or
Discover to reset apps is much more user friendly then hunting for random
config files. Deleting config files can create more unintended problems like
ksnapshot's shortcut was permanently lost in my case when I nuked
kglobalshortcut file.
--
Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.
1:53 a.m.
On Sunday 20 December 2015 02:02:39 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 20.12.2015 um 01:58 schrieb Rex Dieter:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
>> Am 20.12.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Rex Dieter:
>>> Felix Miata wrote:
>>>> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>>>>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>>>>>
>>>>> config: ~/.config
>>>>
>>>> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in
>>>> ~/.config/
>>>> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
>>>> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
>>>> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
>>>> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
>>>> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
>>>> clutter and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
>>>> apps?
>>>
>>> Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using
>>> XDG standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and
>>> XDG_DATA_HOME on
>>> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>>>
>>> NOTE: you can adjust these environment variables to suit your own needs
>>> if you prefer something other than their default locations
>>
>> but you can not say which and how many files of a KDE application part
>> of the configuration
>
> You're advocating that kde *not* follow XDG standard specifications?
i am advocating not follows *human understandable* locations
what are my *current* kate setting to duplicate on another machine or
just to backup and restore?
[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ locate /home/harry/ | grep kate
/home/harry/.config/katepartrc
/home/harry/.config/katerc
/home/harry/.config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.config/katevirc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/default.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/fsbookmarks.xml
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/filetree
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katecloseexceptplugin
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katekonsole
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/katequickdocumentswitcher
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/plugins/project
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/kate/sessions/Standardsitzung.katesession
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefiletemplates/plugins/katefiletemplates
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katefindinfilesplugin/plugins/findinfiles
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katepart/katepartui.rc
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/katequickdocumentswitcher/plugins
/home/harry/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartindentjscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartpluginsrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katepartscriptrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katerc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katercJ13485.new
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/kateschemarc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katescriptingrc
/home/harry/.kde/share/config/katesyntaxhighlightingrc
/home/harry/.local/share/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/applications/kde4-kate.desktop
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/anonymous.katesession
/home/harry/.local/share/kate/sessions
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/kate/kateui.rc
/home/harry/.local/share/kxmlgui5/katepart/katepart5ui.rc
Wow... this is looking like the inisdes of the registry. With configuration
paramaters all over the tree and not knowing what is configured where.
Extensible app is fantastic. Different config files for different parts OK,
understandable. But why does anyone need to be an engineer to find them let
alone figure out what each one is for?
--
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7:06 p.m.
On Dec 19, 2015 19:42, "Rex Dieter" <rdieter(a)math.unl.edu> wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
> Rex Dieter composed on 2015-12-19 17:03 (UTC-0600):
>
>> kf5/plasma5 applications use:
>
>> config: ~/.config
>
> Disturbing that K5 puts 2-3 times as much or more directly in ~/.config/
> than all other apps put there combined, making it a big mess, nasty to
> selectively backup or restore, instead of using .config/plasma and/or
> .config/kde5 and/or something else neat and clean as ~/.kde and ~/.kde4
> were, and ~/.config/libreoffice, ~/.config/mc, ~/.config/smplayer,
> ~/.config/chromium and others are. Did upstream ever discuss this
clutter
> and decide it posed no problem being so different from other
apps?
Disturbing or not, it's a welcome change to *me* that kde is now using XDG
standard locations, see references to XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_DATA_HOME on
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
Note to self: submit addendum to spec stating "Applications should store
their configurations within a named subfolder within XDG_CONFIG_HOME."
~/.config/kde5 would have been perfect, following the same namely scheme as
everyone else. They are following the spec, but the spec should've gone one
step further
12:24 a.m.
On 2015-12-19 16:03, Rex Dieter wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
> With KDE5, many of the configuration files locations have moved or been
> changed. I upgraded and I am having issues and I am convinced that it
> is due to conflicts between configuration files.
In general, kde4 applications use
config: ~/.kde/share/config
data: ~/.kde/share/apps/
and kf5/plasma5 applications use:
config: ~/.config/
data: ~/.local/share/
as you can see, old kde4 configurations in general ought not conflict, since
those old locations are no longer used.
-- Rex
Thank you.
I will start looking.
I agree that there shouldn't be any conflict but something affects my
old account but not the new account. This is a simple login and opening
an application causes a kwin freeze until I kill drkonqi. Yet in a
newly created account, there is no freeze.
Maybe it is one of the KDE4 apps that is conflicting. That is what I am
trying to find for the bug report.
Even opening Firefox causes a freeze on my old account.
Bug hunting time.
Also, I didn't realize that this simple question would raise a heated
discussion. FWIW, I agree, KDE should be following standards as this
makes it much easier to work with.
3030
days inactive
3045
days old
34 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Dariusz J. Garbowski -
Eli Wapniarski -
Eric Griffith -
Felix Miata -
Glenn Holmer -
Reindl Harald -
Rex Dieter -
Robin Laing -
Sudhir Khanger