The fixes referenced in the freeze exception request were only implemented within the last few days
-------- Original message -------- From: Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com Date: 05/13/2015 5:39 AM (GMT-06:00) To: kde@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F22 blocker/freeze exception review: on-list? in-bug? special meeting?
On Tue, 2015-05-12 at 19:53 -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote:
On 05/12/2015 05:53 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2015-05-12 at 16:45 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
If, and I say if since I've not tested, this fixes the session restore issues of Plasma 5 then to me it is a *must* for F22 release.
Ditto.
Session restore doesn't seem like a great FE candidate, since people don't usually use sessions on live images.
Anyone who uses the live image to test the new release, and after installing it discovers that sessions don't restore, is going to be pretty unhappy. Stock up on flame-proof jackets.
poc
After installing they can just update to get a fix.
I guess what I'm really asking is why this bug, which was reported over three months ago and is very obvious to anyone who tries to use session-restore, is still present in a release candidate.
poc
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On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 11:04 +0000, Rex Dieter wrote:
The fixes referenced in the freeze exception request were only implemented within the last few days
That doesn't reassure me. What it means is that a highly visible usability bug didn't prevent a freeze from happening anyway.
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 11:04 +0000, Rex Dieter wrote:
The fixes referenced in the freeze exception request were only implemented within the last few days
That doesn't reassure me.
Your mention of the timing of the bug submission vs fixes landing seemed to be one focus of your previous comment.
What it means is that a highly visible usability bug didn't prevent a freeze from happening anyway.
If you're arguing this should be considered a release blocker, I would (largely) humbly disagree. IMO, in general, Release blockers are for critical functionality, particularly the kind that would be hard to fix in subsequent updates.
I think this is a good candidate for freeze exception though.
-- Rex
On 05/13/2015 07:47 AM, Rex Dieter wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 11:04 +0000, Rex Dieter wrote:
The fixes referenced in the freeze exception request were only implemented within the last few days
That doesn't reassure me.
Your mention of the timing of the bug submission vs fixes landing seemed to be one focus of your previous comment.
What it means is that a highly visible usability bug didn't prevent a freeze from happening anyway.
If you're arguing this should be considered a release blocker, I would (largely) humbly disagree. IMO, in general, Release blockers are for critical functionality, particularly the kind that would be hard to fix in subsequent updates.
I think this is a good candidate for freeze exception though.
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343875
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
You have a good point there: "Save Session" is a menu entry, and there is a blocker criterion saying that any non-working menu entry is a release blocker for Fedora. Therefore, this bug ought to be considered not only a freeze exception, but even a blocker!
Kevin Kofler
On 19 May 2015 at 01:07, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
You have a good point there: "Save Session" is a menu entry, and there is a blocker criterion saying that any non-working menu entry is a release blocker for Fedora. Therefore, this bug ought to be considered not only a freeze exception, but even a blocker!
Actually it's not clear whether the problem is with the session save or the session restore. If the latter, a pedant might argue that there's no issue with the menu entry :)
poc
On 05/19/15 19:16, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On 19 May 2015 at 01:07, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
You have a good point there: "Save Session" is a menu entry, and there is a blocker criterion saying that any non-working menu entry is a release blocker for Fedora. Therefore, this bug ought to be considered not only a freeze exception, but even a blocker!
Actually it's not clear whether the problem is with the session save or the session restore. If the latter, a pedant might argue that there's no issue with the menu entry :)
For lack of a better word, I find it "hypocritical" that a feature not working but having a menu entry would be considered for blocker/freeze exception yet the same basic feature (restore previous session) not working would not receive the same consideration only due to the fact that it is configured totally in "system settings".
On 05/19/15 19:58, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/19/15 19:16, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On 19 May 2015 at 01:07, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
You have a good point there: "Save Session" is a menu entry, and there is a blocker criterion saying that any non-working menu entry is a release blocker for Fedora. Therefore, this bug ought to be considered not only a freeze exception, but even a blocker!
Actually it's not clear whether the problem is with the session save or the session restore. If the latter, a pedant might argue that there's no issue with the menu entry :)
For lack of a better word, I find it "hypocritical" that a feature not working but having a menu entry would be considered for blocker/freeze exception yet the same basic feature (restore previous session) not working would not receive the same consideration only due to the fact that it is configured totally in "system settings".
That was not a very good choice of words.... Let's just say "odd".
On Tuesday 19 May 2015 19:58:32 Ed Greshko wrote:
On 05/19/15 19:16, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On 19 May 2015 at 01:07, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I agree that session restore has minimal impact on a live CD. The bigger issue, though, is that it's prominently visible in the main menu ("Save Session"), but is just plain broken. This reflects badly on Plasma 5 as a whole, and by extension, on the Fedora spin.
You have a good point there: "Save Session" is a menu entry, and there is a blocker criterion saying that any non-working menu entry is a release blocker for Fedora. Therefore, this bug ought to be considered not only a freeze exception, but even a blocker!
Actually it's not clear whether the problem is with the session save or the session restore. If the latter, a pedant might argue that there's no issue with the menu entry :)
For lack of a better word, I find it "hypocritical" that a feature not working but having a menu entry would be considered for blocker/freeze exception yet the same basic feature (restore previous session) not working would not receive the same consideration only due to the fact that it is configured totally in "system settings".
The word your looking for is inconsistent :)
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 12:17 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2015-05-13 at 11:04 +0000, Rex Dieter wrote:
The fixes referenced in the freeze exception request were only implemented within the last few days
That doesn't reassure me. What it means is that a highly visible usability bug didn't prevent a freeze from happening anyway.
There is no common procedure for delaying freezes in Fedora, they happen on dates that are pre-determined months in advance. Delays occur usually at the point of signing off the Alpha, Beta and Final releases if all blocker bugs are not fixed.
We have adjusted the release schedule outside of the blocker process before, but only in very unusual circumstances - in other words, when newUI was not remotely close to finished and no-one felt like going through three weeks of blocker treadmill, we just said 'yeah, it's not done' and kicked the schedule out by a few weeks. But it's very rare, and quite honestly, 'bug in window placement in KDE session restore' is not even a release blocker, never mind important enough to start kicking around entire Fedora release schedules for.
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Adam Williamson -
Ed Greshko -
Eli Wapniarski -
Glenn Holmer -
Kevin Kofler -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rex Dieter -
Rex Dieter