IRC Log of FAmSCo Meeting - 07 Mar 2008
by John Babich
<fugolini> who is here?
* fabian_a :-)
* iWolf is here
* jmbuser is here
<fugolini> ok, we have the legal number
<fugolini> roll call:
<fugolini> FrancescoUgolini
<fabian_a> FabianAffolter
<jmbuser> JohnBabich
<iWolf> rats.
<iWolf> I have to leave. My wife called to say she slid off the road
into the ditch (snow).
<iWolf> So sorry guys...
<iWolf> I will read the logs and catch up.
<iWolf> my apologies again.....
<iWolf> :(
<jmbuser> iwolf: I hope she's ok
<fugolini> ok, so we will have an informal meetin (jeffrey: no
problem, good luck)
<fabian_a> no problem
<jmbuser> log?
<fugolini> ?
<jmbuser> !
<fugolini> jmbuser:
<jmbuser> Are we keeping a log or is this off-the-record?
<jmbuser> eof
<fugolini> we have an IRC log
<fugolini> if someone want to keep it
<jmbuser> fugolini" I'll keep it
<fugolini> good
<fugolini> ok, today we will discuss about "soft" issues, we are less
than the FAmSCo majority and Max couldn't be here givining us more
detail about budget issue (we will continue the discussion in the M-L)
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<fugolini> Meeting agenda:
<fugolini> 1. FAmSCo and Ambassadors wiki pages updates
<fugolini> 2. Open Ambassadors Initiatives status
<fugolini> if someone want to add other issues please tell me now
<fugolini> 3
<fugolini> 2
<fugolini> 1
<fugolini> Ok, we start with the first issue in the agenda: FAmSCo and
Ambassadors wiki pages updates
<fugolini> Fabian wrote in the list that there are a lot of obsolete wiki pages
<fabian_a> !
<fugolini> He was right.
<fugolini> fabian_a: (after i have to ask you a question concerning this topic)
<fabian_a> as example: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Hoarding
<fabian_a> the ambassador start page
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors (there is too much content)
<fabian_a> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Schedule
* MrTom (n=mrtom@fedora/MrTom) has joined #fedora-meeting
<fabian_a> and there are some more...
<fabian_a> eof
<MrTom> ThomasCanniot
<fugolini> fabian_a: you answered my question, i was in search of
hoarding page (i asked you in one of my mail to your thread)
<fugolini> but now it's okù
<fugolini> I think we have to take care of those page
<fabian_a> perhaps we should move this kind of content to art
<fugolini> those are our references
<fugolini> now i'm talking about the content pages
<fugolini> for the Hoarding page etc... i think we could start asking
to Ambassadors
<fugolini> and then, with the help of art team we can improve them
<fugolini> it's ok?
<fabian_a> +1
<jmbuser> +1
<fugolini> ok, i'll write an email to the list tomorrow
<jmbuser> !
<fugolini> jmbuser:
<jmbuser> This is good time to be reviewing the wiki content and pages
with the migration to MediaWiki coming soon.
<jmbuser> eof
<fugolini> this is the second part of this issue
<fugolini> i wanted to start
<fugolini> that's an hard work and i think each FAmSCo member with the
help of all ambassadors has to take care of
<fugolini> We have to reorganize the welcome page (as fabian
suggested), adding new content to ambassadors help pages
<fugolini> work on new meeting templates
<fugolini> etc...
<fugolini> i think we have to make a list of what we have to update
(like a To-Do list)
<jmbuser> +1
<fabian_a> +1
<MrTom> +1
<fugolini> If there aren't volunteers for such issue, i will
(tomorrow) create a wiki page where each person could add the page he
thinks
<fugolini> it's necessary to update
<fugolini> we have moreover to decide a deadline: it's 15 days ok?
<iWolf> back - wife is rescued...
<fugolini> (15 days starting from the creating of the wiki page=
<fugolini> iWolf: good
<jmbuser> !
<fugolini> *creation
<fugolini> jmbuser:
<jmbuser> 15 days should be OK, but I believe no firm date has been
set for the migration
<jmbuser> eof
* iWolf is caught up
<iWolf> +1 on wiki cleanup
<fugolini> we can delay it whenever we want, it's just a trick to put
us at work :)
<fugolini> starting from me
<fugolini> ehehe
<fugolini> ok, so tomorrow (nobody offers himself) i will create a
wiki page with such list
<fugolini> if nobody as anything to say, we can leap to the next discussion
<fugolini> 3
<fugolini> 2
<fugolini> 1
<fugolini> 2. Open Ambassadors Initiatives
<fugolini> I think you know the Fedora Ambassadors Wall initiative?
<fugolini> ok, we have received a lot of messages
<fugolini> and we are able to create the first poster with those
<iWolf> !
<fugolini> for the layout i will ask nicubunu who gave me his
avaiability for such work
<fugolini> iWolf:
<iWolf> Is there a link to the first post? I think I missed it.
<iWolf> eof
<iWolf> s/post/poster/
<fugolini> first post? about Fedora Ambassadors Wall?
<fugolini> ah
<fugolini> ok
<fugolini> i didn't talk with nicubuntu yet
<fugolini> givinig him the "go"
<fugolini> i wanted to ask you before
<fugolini> i want to ask you about the title: is ok "The Ambassadors Voice"
<fugolini> a?
<fugolini> Second: at the bottom there will be the Fedora Ambassadors site
<fugolini> it would be a way to give more visibility to us
<fugolini> This is the reason i want to officialize it today
<fugolini> with an ok from FAmSCo we could create our first Ambassadors Poster
<fugolini> it's ok? Have you concernings about it?
<jmbuser> !
<fugolini> jmbuser:
<jmbuser> Go for it - let's see what the Art team can come up with
<jmbuser> eof
<fugolini> ok, i think it's not necessary to vote for this issue
<fugolini> Now before adjourn the meeting
<fugolini> i want to remember that we will continue to discuss abot
those issue on the M-L.
* iWolf phone
<fugolini> Currently (i don't forget past issue, but now we have
different priorities) we have two main
<fugolini> issue:
<fugolini> *issues
<fugolini> 1. FAmSCo Budget: as i remembered we are discussing about
this on the M-L. Jeffrey is doing a great job defining report
guidelines, defining the structure of this one
<jmbuser> +1
<fugolini> FAmSCo members are invited to give thei opinions/ideas in the list
<fugolini> 2. Wiki cleanup:
<fugolini> we have to update contents and make informations easy to find
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<fugolini> i will take care of it (if someone else want to do this)
<jmbuser> !
<fugolini> jmbuser:
<jmbuser> I can assist, but I can't drive it...
<jmbuser> eof
<fugolini> happy to hear this
<fugolini> thank you
<fugolini> Once again i have to ask you if there are other issues you
want to discuss
<fugolini> 3
<fugolini> 2
<fugolini> 1
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<fugolini> So, thank all the attendees
16 years, 1 month
Res: ext4 Implementation Interview
by Rodrigo Menezes
Damm HTML...
Sorry guys. The post in all News websites and planet.fedoraproject is ok.
Cheers,
Rodrigo
----- Mensagem original ----
De: Rodrigo Menezes <rodrigomenezes12(a)yahoo.com.br>
Para: fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
Cc: fedora-announce-list(a)redhat.com; communications(a)redhat.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 7 de Março de 2008 14:22:41
Assunto: ext4 Implementation Interview
Hey all,
It's that time of week again and a new interview is up. This time it's with Eric Sandeen and all about the new ext4 implementation that are going to be landing in F9.
And the urls:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/EricSandeen
and digg it here:
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Eric_Sandeen_ext4_Implementation_in_Fedora_9
More news to come!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento!
Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento!
http://br.mail.yahoo.com/
16 years, 1 month
Marketing Meeting 2008-03-06 IRC Log
by John Babich
Mar 06 23:00:57 <gregdek> OK, looks like we've got a few folks around.
Shall we get started?
Mar 06 23:00:57 <quaid> word
Mar 06 23:00:59 <stickster> gregdek: fire away, yo
Mar 06 23:01:03 <tw2113> yay @ IRC being a collaborative notepad :P
Mar 06 23:01:07 * gregdek goes to the agenda.
Mar 06 23:01:17 <quaid> <meeting>
Mar 06 23:01:21 <gregdek> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks
Mar 06 23:01:36 <gregdek> Do we have Rahul?
Mar 06 23:01:46 <gregdek> mether: You there?
Mar 06 23:01:52 * quaid saw mether around recently
Mar 06 23:02:02 <mether> gregdek: yeah
Mar 06 23:02:04 * JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")
Mar 06 23:02:27 <gregdek> 1.1.1.2: Target audience.
Mar 06 23:02:45 <mether> I wrote some things which might not make sense
Mar 06 23:02:45 * JonRob (n=jon(a)exhalls-5.ex.ac.uk) has joined #fedora-mktg
Mar 06 23:02:47 <gregdek> Everyone take a look at what mether has.
Mar 06 23:02:58 <gregdek> The Plan url:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan
Mar 06 23:03:10 <gregdek> Take a look at section 1.1.1.2. Any comments?
Mar 06 23:03:45 * gregdek agrees generally.
Mar 06 23:03:54 <JonRob> maybe it needs widening slightly?
Mar 06 23:04:05 <quaid> missing "really cool sysadmins"
Mar 06 23:04:09 <JonRob> seems to me like fedora's mission has widened a little
Mar 06 23:04:11 <tw2113> i don't see my name :P
Mar 06 23:04:13 <JonRob> beyond just the distribution
Mar 06 23:04:14 <tw2113> kidding
Mar 06 23:04:26 <mether> JonRob: feel free to expand it
Mar 06 23:04:37 <quaid> how wide?
Mar 06 23:04:38 <mether> what do you have in mind?
Mar 06 23:04:45 <JonRob> well that's what i'm not sure about
Mar 06 23:04:48 <gregdek> Heh.
Mar 06 23:05:04 <mether> target audience should be specific and we
shouldn't try to fit everything in IMO
Mar 06 23:05:13 <JonRob> but fedora as a community certainly appeals
to people such as Creative Commons, and Fedora TV is an interesting
direction for us to head
Mar 06 23:05:14 <quaid> how about sysadmins?
Mar 06 23:05:29 <JonRob> is perhaps the point i'm getting at
Mar 06 23:05:43 <quaid> Free and open source software developers =>
Free and open source software and content developers
Mar 06 23:05:49 <gregdek> So why is this interesting to Creative
Commons? Because they are interested in a derivative distribution,
right?
Mar 06 23:05:51 <tw2113> i kind of think of fedora as a distro for the
people who want to start controlling their computer, instead of the
computer controlling them
Mar 06 23:06:06 <mether> quaid: i think that covers it right
Mar 06 23:06:07 <jmbuser> quaid: +1
Mar 06 23:06:09 <quaid> just chuck "open content" in there, that's legit;
Mar 06 23:06:18 <JonRob> quaid: +1 works for me
Mar 06 23:06:36 <mether> why sys admins?
Mar 06 23:06:37 <gregdek> Hm.
Mar 06 23:06:43 <quaid> Free and open source enthusiasts => Free and
open source enthusiasts and systems maintainers?
Mar 06 23:06:47 <quaid> um, why?
Mar 06 23:06:54 <gregdek> The broader the audience = the wider a net
we must cast = the more work we all need to do.
Mar 06 23:06:55 <mether> whats unique about Fedora for them?
Mar 06 23:07:06 <quaid> because it's a rock solid system for server
deployments, people use it for that all over the place, and it's a
natural step to RHEL sysadmin
Mar 06 23:07:18 <quaid> mether: it's the upstream to RHEL :)
Mar 06 23:07:24 * gregdek thinks that's covered by "open source enthusiasts".
Mar 06 23:07:24 <quaid> that's what is unique
Mar 06 23:07:35 <JonRob> gregdek: i guess that's part of the trouble
with spins that they can widen our audience continually, especially
with the art spin etc
Mar 06 23:07:36 <mether> wouldnt a rock solid server deployment have a
longer lifecycle?
Mar 06 23:07:39 <gregdek> Remember: the reason for coming up with a
target audience is to better target the messaging.
Mar 06 23:07:56 <quaid> mether: meh, splitting hairs
Mar 06 23:08:06 <jmbuser> how about cutting-edge technologists like NASA?
Mar 06 23:08:14 <mether> i am not sure. i think server = longer life
cycle for many people
Mar 06 23:08:18 <gregdek> For every entry in the "audience" category,
we need to reconcile our plans to include that entry.
Mar 06 23:08:40 <quaid> s/enthusiasts/enthusiasts such as systems
maintainers and leading edge technologists/?
Mar 06 23:08:44 <tw2113> i think the server aspect depends on how
heavily it'd get used and where
Mar 06 23:08:50 <mether> quaid: that would work
Mar 06 23:08:53 <iWolf> Well, I'm a sysadmin and run Fedora on my
desktops/laptop as a way to see what's coming down the pike for my
servers.
Mar 06 23:08:58 <stickster> Secondary target, would it make sense to
have "third-party developers" as they relate to the ISVs? Or is that
an unnecessary artificial construct?
Mar 06 23:09:02 <tw2113> like if i wanted to set up my own little
in-house server for personal use, i wouldn't hesitate using fedora
Mar 06 23:09:12 <quaid> stickster: isn't that covered in the second bullet
Mar 06 23:09:13 <stickster> s/ISVs/IHVs and ISVs/
Mar 06 23:09:26 <tw2113> but if i wanted a dedicated server for a lot
of people to use at once, i would probably aim for more long-term
support
Mar 06 23:09:26 <mether> stickster: the advantage of Fedora is that
you dont have to be a third party
Mar 06 23:09:45 <mether> the wiki is too slow for me. anyone else,
feel free to edit if they can
Mar 06 23:09:58 * quaid edits
Mar 06 23:10:05 <stickster> quaid++
Mar 06 23:10:11 <gregdek> It may be that we need to focus more
narrowly in "primary audience" and allow more latitude in "secondary
audience".
Mar 06 23:10:24 <gregdek> As in, "primary audience" are folks that we
must have *awesome* messaging for.
Mar 06 23:10:24 <JonRob> gregdek: that sounds like the right approach to me
Mar 06 23:10:28 <stickster> I'll buy that for $1.
Mar 06 23:10:38 <JonRob> i think that's stated more or less too in the
overviews and around and about
Mar 06 23:10:51 <mether> if you have to say only one thing about the
target audience for Fedora, what would that be?
Mar 06 23:10:54 <quaid> +1 to narrow primary, allow room in secondary
Mar 06 23:11:07 <gregdek> And for me, our *primary* target is free and
open source software developers.
Mar 06 23:11:15 <gregdek> Who else is clearly *primary*?
Mar 06 23:11:25 <quaid> +1
Mar 06 23:11:31 <quaid> enthusiasts?
Mar 06 23:11:33 <gregdek> Yeah.
Mar 06 23:11:42 <jmbuser> +1
Mar 06 23:11:44 <stickster> I'm a little sad that we can't say we're
for desktop users who aren't concerned with the MP3/DVD case.
Mar 06 23:11:48 * quaid has an edit window, watch out!
Mar 06 23:11:54 <gregdek> Specifically because I think enthusiasts --
and I mean true enthusiasts -- are where the developers come from.
Mar 06 23:12:10 <gregdek> stickster: I think that's the definition of
an "enthusiast." :)
Mar 06 23:12:16 <mether> stickster: in reality, that probably is not
our primary target
Mar 06 23:12:36 <stickster> gregdek: Sure, if you want to be logical.
Mar 06 23:12:47 <mether> stickster: it is exactly the reason why I put
desktop users as a secondary target btw. We dont support proprietary
stuff
Mar 06 23:12:49 <gregdek> I think every other case we listed is a
great secondary target, and we could even add more.
Mar 06 23:13:24 <JonRob> i don't think we should leave it solely at
developers as primary audience
Mar 06 23:13:27 <quaid> do we want to move any down from the primary
list to secondary?
Mar 06 23:13:44 <quaid> right now I have it as is, with the additional
language; nothing removed
Mar 06 23:13:57 <iWolf> JonRob: I agree.
Mar 06 23:13:58 <gregdek> I like developers and enthusiasts as primary.
Mar 06 23:14:05 <JonRob> gregdek: +1
Mar 06 23:14:07 <stickster> +1
Mar 06 23:14:14 <JonRob> or perhaps "freedom lovers" :p
Mar 06 23:14:17 <iWolf> leave room for sysadmins, hopefully they fall
under enthusiasts.
Mar 06 23:14:31 <stickster> I also like "derivative creators" in
primary, but in my mind that includes appliances.
Mar 06 23:14:39 <gregdek> Hm.
Mar 06 23:14:55 <gregdek> I could go either way on that.
Mar 06 23:15:01 <stickster> We spend a lot of time making sure all our
build systems and other supporting structures are free just to make
sure someone can do that.
Mar 06 23:15:13 <gregdek> It may be primary in terms of strategy, but
is it primary in terms of messaging?
Mar 06 23:15:37 <stickster> I think so. I *like* spending time in
interviews pointing out that everything we build and do is free.
Mar 06 23:15:41 <quaid> should we specify
Mar 06 23:15:45 <quaid> under secondary
Mar 06 23:15:49 <JonRob> gregdek: it must be, surely?! otherwise why
bother spending time on something no body is going to hear about?
Mar 06 23:15:54 <quaid> that these are not the targets of messaging?
Mar 06 23:15:56 <gregdek> A fair point.
Mar 06 23:16:13 <quaid> -1 to my idea, fwiw
Mar 06 23:16:19 <gregdek> Heh. :)
Mar 06 23:16:51 <gregdek> OK, so I'll buy "derivative creators" as a
primary -- but that's not as... I dunno. Smooth, I want to say.
Mar 06 23:16:55 <stickster> Right.
Mar 06 23:17:07 <gregdek> Unless you're already firmly in our world,
it probably isn't clear.
Mar 06 23:17:07 <stickster> A better way to say it is needed...
Mar 06 23:17:09 <quaid> "Fedora feeders"?
Mar 06 23:17:15 <stickster> -1 jargon :-D
Mar 06 23:17:20 <gregdek> Forkers.
Mar 06 23:17:26 <stickster> :-D
Mar 06 23:17:28 <gregdek> All those fooking forkers. :)
Mar 06 23:17:29 <quaid> Motherforkers?
Mar 06 23:17:51 <gregdek> Hrm.
Mar 06 23:18:02 <tw2113> what the fork
Mar 06 23:18:07 <gregdek> I would say "leave it for now," but I'm
concerned if we do, we'll never revisit it, heh.
Mar 06 23:18:08 <stickster> How to say... "People who want to copy our
awesome model."
Mar 06 23:18:11 <quaid> well, those guys, whatever we call them, we
agree they are #1
Mar 06 23:18:11 <jmbuser> Mixers and mashers
Mar 06 23:18:18 <JonRob> "spiners"
Mar 06 23:18:20 <stickster> jmbuser: aha!
Mar 06 23:18:23 <stickster> FOSS remixers
Mar 06 23:18:30 <gregdek> FOSS remixers.
Mar 06 23:18:33 <gregdek> I like that.
Mar 06 23:18:33 <stickster> *jinx
Mar 06 23:18:35 <tw2113> stickster, "excellent for imitation"
Mar 06 23:18:35 <jmbuser> +1
Mar 06 23:18:36 <quaid> sounding like a Dead show here with spinners,
mashers ...
Mar 06 23:18:50 <gregdek> THE BROWN ACID IS BAD.
Mar 06 23:18:53 * quaid fixes that one
Mar 06 23:19:04 <tw2113> we're all golden gods?
Mar 06 23:19:09 <stickster> This makes it easy -- "Free and open
source enthusiasts, developers, and remixers."
Mar 06 23:19:16 <gregdek> Me likey Big Time.
Mar 06 23:19:17 <jmbuser> +1
Mar 06 23:19:26 <iWolf> and sysadmins. :)
Mar 06 23:19:26 <gregdek> 1. Simplify. 2. Amplify. :)
Mar 06 23:19:32 <stickster> wakawakawakawaka*BEAT BEAT*
Mar 06 23:19:56 <gregdek> OK, I think we've licked target audience.
Shall we move on?
Mar 06 23:20:00 <stickster> +1
Mar 06 23:20:14 <gregdek> 1.1.2 -- Brand Positioning. That's me!
Mar 06 23:20:21 <gregdek> Take a look, and let's have comments.
Mar 06 23:20:39 <quaid> hey that worked, just saved it with those
changes, pulling all the others under the one audience
Mar 06 23:20:40 <mether> gregdek:
http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9813113-39.html
Mar 06 23:20:58 <mether> gregdek: talks about a all purpose linux
foundation. sounds grander than derivative distributions?
Mar 06 23:21:02 * quaid needs to pass the edit baton
Mar 06 23:21:12 <quaid> have to leave in ~10 minutes
Mar 06 23:21:35 <gregdek> Hm.
Mar 06 23:21:41 <gregdek> Who wants the edit baton?
Mar 06 23:21:45 <gregdek> mether: Maybe.
Mar 06 23:22:04 <stickster> Yikes, the "foundation" terminology
overload is a little daunting.
Mar 06 23:22:04 <jmbuser> gregdek: Pick me
Mar 06 23:22:13 <stickster> jmbuser++
Mar 06 23:22:22 <gregdek> jmbuser: A winner is you!
Mar 06 23:23:01 <stickster> gregdek: I don't know if I can add to 1.1.2
Mar 06 23:23:07 <stickster> It's so... beautiful...
Mar 06 23:23:13 <gregdek> I'm perfect, as always!
Mar 06 23:23:16 <mether> User Experience. Fedora offers a user
experience that is unsurpassed by
Mar 06 23:23:20 <gregdek> Surely someone has something ribald to say.
Mar 06 23:23:21 <mether> that sentence is incomplete
Mar 06 23:23:25 <stickster> Except "cam" ==> "can" in point 3.
Mar 06 23:23:48 <quaid> gregdek: when you've laid down for FLOSS for
so long, it just rolls of your tongue?
Mar 06 23:23:51 <gregdek> See? mether's paying attention. Stickster
is just grab-assing.
Mar 06 23:23:52 <stickster> Sorry, I was only looking at the Points of
Difference section.
Mar 06 23:23:59 <stickster> gregdek: Is it Friday already?
Mar 06 23:24:06 <mether> Fedora is the responsible elder brother of
the free software world
Mar 06 23:24:10 <mether> not sure that is a good analogy
Mar 06 23:24:18 <quaid> s/brother/sibling/ ?
Mar 06 23:24:23 <tw2113> tomorrow paul
Mar 06 23:24:25 <JonRob> umm what about the friends bit: sounds a
little like we're exlcuding people who don't agree with us
Mar 06 23:24:30 <gregdek> I'll leave it up for debate, but I like it lots.
Mar 06 23:24:41 <JonRob> maybe we could emphasise convincing people a
little more :)
Mar 06 23:24:45 <mether> Friends. We care about the people around us
who care about the things that we care about.
Mar 06 23:24:56 <quaid> we care that they care enough to convince other people?
Mar 06 23:25:01 <mether> I care about my friend even though he cares
about completely different things
Mar 06 23:25:06 * jmbuser going into edit mode
Mar 06 23:25:14 <tw2113> Fedora: we're not brown
Mar 06 23:25:19 <gregdek> Then "friends" is the wrong word.
Mar 06 23:25:26 <JonRob> tw2113: heh :)
Mar 06 23:25:31 <stickster> "We care about the people around us, even
if they're not paying attention."
Mar 06 23:25:37 <stickster> No, wait, that's wrong.
Mar 06 23:25:38 <JonRob> stickster: +1
Mar 06 23:25:44 <JonRob> no i think it's good
Mar 06 23:25:44 <gregdek> My opinion: we care about the mission, and
we care *a lot* about supporting other people who also care about our
mission.
Mar 06 23:26:10 * stickster will have to learn not to joke without signifying.
Mar 06 23:26:11 <gregdek> Because to be honest, I don't care all that
much about the Windows user who doesn't give a toss about free
software.
Mar 06 23:26:28 <mether> so lets say
Mar 06 23:26:29 <gregdek> But I care *deeply* about the folks -- my
friends -- who sacrifice their time and energies to make free software
better.
Mar 06 23:26:30 <stickster> Fedora -- the defensive driver of FOSS.
Mar 06 23:26:33 <JonRob> gregdek: surely we need to let them
understand why we care though?
Mar 06 23:27:01 <JonRob> or are we positioning ourselves more as a
solid foundation for those who actually want to take the fight
forwards?
Mar 06 23:27:12 <mether> Foundation for freedom?
Mar 06 23:27:14 <gregdek> JonRob: +1 to that last bit.
Mar 06 23:27:19 <gregdek> Foundation For Freedom.
Mar 06 23:27:23 * jmbuser did a save
Mar 06 23:27:24 <gregdek> Yeah, we need another F.
Mar 06 23:27:26 <gregdek> :)
Mar 06 23:27:31 <stickster> I'm down with that.
Mar 06 23:27:36 <mether> that could be a slogan. we need one
Mar 06 23:27:50 <iWolf> we're still going to need to care about people
who don't understand.
Mar 06 23:27:59 <stickster> "The Future, First" -- that's my slogan.
Mar 06 23:28:11 <iWolf> people ask at the Fedora booth, why they
should are, or why what we do is good.
Mar 06 23:28:18 <iWolf> s/are/care/
Mar 06 23:28:39 <stickster> Back to these points -- "Friends: We care
about the people around us, especially those who are devoted to
freedom"
Mar 06 23:28:41 <mether> Foundation For Software Freedom if you want
to be more specific
Mar 06 23:28:52 <gregdek> Or Content Freedom.
Mar 06 23:29:03 <JonRob> content freedom?
Mar 06 23:29:03 <mether> right
Mar 06 23:29:07 <gregdek> Hey, we're the FSF!
Mar 06 23:29:13 <JonRob> yes, i feel we should push free culture as a
whole rather than just free software
Mar 06 23:29:14 * stickster falls over..
Mar 06 23:29:17 <gregdek> The Foundation for Software Freedom!
Mar 06 23:29:33 <JonRob> gregdek: i think we should use it, just to
see the reactions!
Mar 06 23:29:34 <gregdek> "Who's that over there?" "He's the Free
Software Foundation." "SPLITTER!"
Mar 06 23:29:40 <stickster> :-D
Mar 06 23:29:48 * gregdek giggles helplessly.
Mar 06 23:29:52 <jmbuser> maybe "First" can be "Future"
Mar 06 23:29:58 <stickster> gregdek: Chair, you lout! Chair!
Mar 06 23:30:13 <gregdek> :)
Mar 06 23:30:15 <tw2113> Foundation of Freedom Fighters For Your Future
Mar 06 23:30:19 <tw2113> FFFFF
Mar 06 23:30:21 <gregdek> All right.
Mar 06 23:30:30 <mether> problem I see with future, first is that it
doesnt say anything about what we do
Mar 06 23:30:32 <gregdek> Is the last edit saved yet?
Mar 06 23:30:36 <tw2113> F5
Mar 06 23:30:42 <mether> but IMO, we need a good slogan anyway
Mar 06 23:30:49 <jmbuser> what exactly?
Mar 06 23:30:57 <tw2113> I still like Infinity Freedom Voice
Mar 06 23:31:03 <gregdek> Well, let's table the Slogan idea for right now.
Mar 06 23:31:09 <mether> yeah
Mar 06 23:31:13 <mether> lets discuss that later
Mar 06 23:31:14 <stickster> +1
Mar 06 23:31:16 <gregdek> Let's make sure that we've got the elements
of the Brand Essence correct.
Mar 06 23:31:18 <quaid> "on list"
Mar 06 23:31:28 <stickster> gregdek: And the Parity Points issue.
Mar 06 23:31:39 <gregdek> "Freedom / Friends / Features / First".
Mar 06 23:31:44 <gregdek> Is that sufficient or not?
Mar 06 23:31:55 <quaid> sufficient++
Mar 06 23:32:00 <gregdek> I really kind of like the idea of adding
Foundation, now that it's been mentioned.
Mar 06 23:32:09 <jmbuser> +1
Mar 06 23:32:12 <stickster> I like foundation here too.
Mar 06 23:32:12 <quaid> F5 is much better than F4 anyway
Mar 06 23:32:19 <stickster> More destructive.
Mar 06 23:32:22 <quaid> (being, you know, not TM'd by Marvel)
Mar 06 23:32:23 <stickster> Oh, wait.
Mar 06 23:32:25 <gregdek> Especially now that we've noted that
remixers are a core target audience.
Mar 06 23:32:37 <jmbuser> Framework instead of foundation?
Mar 06 23:32:46 <gregdek> Hm.
Mar 06 23:32:51 <stickster> jmbuser: Too jargon-y.
Mar 06 23:32:55 <gregdek> Yeah. That.
Mar 06 23:32:56 <mether> i think we need to tune the definition of
whom we call friends.
Mar 06 23:32:58 <jmbuser> :-(
Mar 06 23:32:59 <mether> did we decide on that?
Mar 06 23:33:01 <mether> also People interested in security
enhancements like SELinux. Either development or consumption
Mar 06 23:33:04 <mether> is that a core audience?
Mar 06 23:33:14 <quaid> I tucked it under enthusiasts
Mar 06 23:33:14 <gregdek> Foundation = the very strong base.
Framework = tinkertoys.
Mar 06 23:33:14 <stickster> No.
Mar 06 23:33:24 <mether> Freedom. Fedora is completely committed to
the growth of free software in a way that no other operating system
cam match.
Mar 06 23:33:40 <gregdek> Wait...
Mar 06 23:33:42 <mether> should that be stated less in terms of competition?
Mar 06 23:33:48 <JonRob> we better not forget that we're going to have
to explain these things to people
Mar 06 23:33:53 <stickster> No, it's a point of difference
Mar 06 23:33:55 * gregdek looks back at the "primary target" section.
Mar 06 23:34:06 <gregdek> Didn't we agree to narrow it a lot more than that?
Mar 06 23:34:09 <JonRob> why is fedora more capable of growing free software?
Mar 06 23:34:15 * jmbuser adding Foundation?
Mar 06 23:34:29 <stickster> mether: We should be talking in Points of
Difference about where Fedora stands out from other FOSS platforms.
Mar 06 23:34:29 <JonRob> just as an eg
Mar 06 23:34:29 <JonRob> not a quesion that needs answering now
Mar 06 23:34:29 <stickster> gregdek: primary target == "FOSS
enthusiasts, developers, and remixers" I thought.
Mar 06 23:34:54 <stickster> But that may be my ego speaking.
Mar 06 23:34:54 <gregdek> stickster: I thought so too.
Mar 06 23:35:10 <JonRob> jmbuser +1
Mar 06 23:35:10 <mether> jmbuser: yeah
Mar 06 23:35:10 <gregdek> jmbuser: can you re-edit the "target
audience primary market" thing, and also add Foundation?
Mar 06 23:35:25 * jmbuser jumps into edit mode
Mar 06 23:35:54 <jmbuser> ...slowly
Mar 06 23:36:06 <stickster> gregdek: I thought Foundation was to be
added to 1.1.2 under "Core Brand Essence"
Mar 06 23:36:08 <tw2113> [14:35] <zodbot> Announcement from my owner
(mmcgrath): We've had a burp on one of our servers, some web services
(wiki) and koji will be down for a moment.
Mar 06 23:36:12 <tw2113> might be why it's slow
Mar 06 23:36:22 <gregdek> Sigh.
Mar 06 23:36:36 <JonRob> tw2113: just saw a whloe load of "host down"
announcements - was scary!
Mar 06 23:36:54 <mether> it is not even accessible for me now
Mar 06 23:36:58 <gregdek> Well.
Mar 06 23:37:03 <iWolf> server is being rebooted.
Mar 06 23:37:09 <iWolf> one of the xen hosts.
Mar 06 23:37:13 <gregdek> Looks like our meeting might be abended --
or at least delayed a bit. :)
Mar 06 23:37:24 <mether> lets continue discussing what we need to do
Mar 06 23:37:34 <stickster> Apparently you guys have not hugged the
sysadmins enough today.
Mar 06 23:37:56 <tw2113> we thought that was your job Paul
Mar 06 23:37:57 <tw2113> part of being the leader and whatnot
Mar 06 23:38:09 <mether> stickster: take the blame take the blame
Mar 06 23:38:09 <stickster> I'm a hugger. Ask anyone.
Mar 06 23:38:28 <stickster> You're right! [sobs violently] I DIDN'T HUG TODAY!
Mar 06 23:38:41 <gregdek> OK.
Mar 06 23:38:50 <gregdek> Points of Parity / Points of Difference?
Mar 06 23:38:56 <gregdek> Any questions / concerns there?
Mar 06 23:38:58 <stickster> Parity == equality, yes?
Mar 06 23:39:01 <gregdek> Yes.
Mar 06 23:39:03 <mether> gregdek: i cant see it
Mar 06 23:39:07 <mether> gregdek: paste it?
Mar 06 23:39:10 <stickster> So why does our point there basically say
"Best user experience"?
Mar 06 23:39:11 * jmbuser will update when possible
Mar 06 23:39:21 <stickster> Because in my mind, that's stating a differentiator
Mar 06 23:39:30 * quaid bails for kiddle pickup and dispersal
Mar 06 23:39:37 <gregdek> == "none better". <> "best".
Mar 06 23:39:44 <gregdek> Bye quaid.
Mar 06 23:39:53 <stickster> gregdek: Wellll... OK.
Mar 06 23:40:04 <mether> what do we do with the marketing plan once we
have it. Are Red Hat marketing folks helping us after this?
Mar 06 23:40:04 <gregdek> User Experience. Fedora offers a user
experience that is unsurpassed.
Mar 06 23:40:04 <gregdek> :)
Mar 06 23:40:10 <gregdek> mether: Certainly they will.
Mar 06 23:40:27 <gregdek> I was hoping joadams would be here, but he's
unavailable, it seems.
Mar 06 23:40:31 <gregdek> He'll be back around, though.
Mar 06 23:40:36 * jmbuser achieves edit mode
Mar 06 23:40:45 <gregdek> Once we actually nail our message, they'll
be able to help a lot with strategy and tactics.
Mar 06 23:40:51 <stickster> gregdek: OK, I see -- basically "as good
or better than anything you've tried."
Mar 06 23:40:57 <gregdek> stickster: Right.
Mar 06 23:41:05 <stickster> Where can we extend that definition?
Mar 06 23:41:15 <gregdek> ...unclear.
Mar 06 23:41:33 <stickster> *Without getting too geeky!* --> Hardware
support. Installed a driver lately?
Mar 06 23:41:46 <gregdek> Hm, nice.
Mar 06 23:41:47 <stickster> The "Just Works" phenomenon
Mar 06 23:41:51 <gregdek> Yeah.
Mar 06 23:41:57 <gregdek> We've got to tread carefully there, though.
Mar 06 23:42:02 <mether> are you talking about proprietary drivers there?
Mar 06 23:42:11 <stickster> No, muddles the message.
Mar 06 23:42:12 <gregdek> Because if the hardware is goofy, "Just
Works" isn't actually true.
Mar 06 23:42:15 <tw2113> "Have you hugged your 'just works' OS yet?"
Mar 06 23:42:26 <gregdek> This is where the messaging gets difficult.
Mar 06 23:42:29 <stickster> I don't think so.
Mar 06 23:42:40 <mether> I am not sure our message of free software
only works well with the idea of
Mar 06 23:42:42 <mether> just works
Mar 06 23:42:47 <stickster> For most hardware on some other O/S'es you
have to go through a very complicated dance just to make anything
work.
Mar 06 23:42:47 * geroldka (n=Gerold@fedora/geroldka) has left
#fedora-mktg ("Leaving")
Mar 06 23:43:03 <stickster> Here, even if it's not whiz-bango, it will
likely work to an acceptable degree.
Mar 06 23:43:12 <JonRob> does this not fall under messaging rather
than brand essence?
Mar 06 23:43:21 <gregdek> But the message fails in some very basic
cases. Transferring video, for instance.
Mar 06 23:43:23 <JonRob> (positioning even)
Mar 06 23:43:35 * jmbuser made changes
Mar 06 23:43:36 <stickster> The essence == plugging things in just works.
Mar 06 23:43:40 <gregdek> We want to say "the best of free software".
We cannot honestly say "just works".
Mar 06 23:43:53 <mether> gregdek: right. I think we cant honestly
advertise just works as an idea for Fedora
Mar 06 23:43:55 <stickster> The "plugging things in" simplifies the case.
Mar 06 23:43:56 <iWolf> gregdek: +1
Mar 06 23:44:29 <gregdek> stickster: You'll thank us for this later
when someone says "bullshit just works, my video camera is totally
broken." :)
Mar 06 23:44:48 * stickster goes back to his ivory tower.
Mar 06 23:44:52 <gregdek> lol
Mar 06 23:45:08 <stickster> Buy better shit!
Mar 06 23:45:11 <gregdek> So what did we come up with as our "answer"?
Because I'm not sure.
Mar 06 23:45:11 <stickster> :-D
Mar 06 23:45:19 <tw2113> so that's where the leader's office is
Mar 06 23:45:34 <gregdek> He directs his armies with a laser pen.
Mar 06 23:45:53 <gregdek> (Laser pen: the secret to catherding.)
Mar 06 23:45:58 <stickster> Can we talk about parity with upstream
here without referring to upstream?
Mar 06 23:45:59 * tw2113 apologizes for being all jokes and hardly
contributing seriously
Mar 06 23:46:08 <stickster> I.e., new like they are?
Mar 06 23:46:12 <gregdek> stickster: That's kind of what I'm trying to do, yeah.
Mar 06 23:46:14 <stickster> "As new or newer"
Mar 06 23:46:28 <gregdek> "Just as GNOME-y as they are!"
Mar 06 23:46:38 <gregdek> "If not GNOME-y-er!"
Mar 06 23:46:44 <stickster> lol
Mar 06 23:46:54 * jmbuser got 502 error - going back in
Mar 06 23:46:55 <gregdek> Let me put it this way:
Mar 06 23:47:15 <stickster> Yeah, wiki's back up if anyone cares to
read along again.
Mar 06 23:47:16 <gregdek> What message are we ready to shout
repeatedly at an event?
Mar 06 23:47:49 <mether> best of free software is a message I am very
comfortable with
Mar 06 23:47:59 <JonRob> what about the messages on Mairin's generic posters?
Mar 06 23:48:13 * Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 06 23:48:15 <mether> best of free software and open content could
be possible
Mar 06 23:48:16 <gregdek> Person A says "Ubuntu is better". Fedora
defender says "show me how Ubuntu is 'better', and I'll show you a bad
compromise that hurts free software".
Mar 06 23:48:26 <gregdek> That's my standard line.
Mar 06 23:48:42 <stickster> JonRob: 1. I love Mairin's posters. 2. We
don't want to harness ourselves to a three-word slogan that didn't get
dissected in this kind of plan
Mar 06 23:48:56 <stickster> JonRob: We can definitely include them,
and fit them in properly though
Mar 06 23:49:04 * gregdek looks at the clock.
Mar 06 23:49:08 <stickster> onward!
Mar 06 23:49:09 <gregdek> Do we want to table this one and move on?
Mar 06 23:49:13 <JonRob> stickster: np, was just a thought as it
seemed like thye were ready made
Mar 06 23:49:24 <gregdek> What do we think of the "Brand Personality"?
Mar 06 23:49:24 <tw2113> i'll 2nd a table
Mar 06 23:49:27 <stickster> gregdek: I think we run a risk of tabling too much
Mar 06 23:49:30 <mether> JonRob: are you editing
Mar 06 23:49:37 <JonRob> mether: no
Mar 06 23:49:40 <gregdek> stickster: We're going to have to come back
and back over this ground anyway.
Mar 06 23:49:50 <stickster> Fair enough, then
Mar 06 23:49:52 <mether> JonRob: ok. so I will
Mar 06 23:50:28 <gregdek> "Brand Personality" -- to me, this means a
personification of what the person who loves our brand is like.
Mar 06 23:50:56 <gregdek> And I wrote my take on that.
Mar 06 23:50:58 <stickster> Nerd Like Me.
Mar 06 23:50:59 <tw2113> always wears his button up shirt open
Mar 06 23:51:22 <tw2113> is a fan of hats
Mar 06 23:51:30 <gregdek> Heh.
Mar 06 23:51:33 * jmbuser did the edits - please review
Mar 06 23:51:43 <stickster> Fun-loving, but knows when to say when.
Mar 06 23:51:59 <tw2113> loves to tinker
Mar 06 23:52:14 <stickster> Gives up the seat to elderly and pregnant women.
Mar 06 23:52:14 <tw2113> wants free access to anywhere he goes?
Mar 06 23:52:34 <jmbuser> gregdek: I like the edler brother imagery
Mar 06 23:52:43 <gregdek> Is willing to suffer discomfort for the
challenge of making something better.
Mar 06 23:52:44 <jmbuser> s /edler /elder /
Mar 06 23:52:50 <stickster> Stoic.
Mar 06 23:52:56 <gregdek> But not too awful stoic.
Mar 06 23:53:01 <jmbuser> Makes the tough calls
Mar 06 23:53:04 <stickster> Stoic, but really wordy.
Mar 06 23:53:13 <tw2113> the big brother that won't beat you up for
playing for the other team, but will try to pursuade you over
Mar 06 23:53:17 <gregdek> A good communist like you see in old Russian posters.
Mar 06 23:53:22 <stickster> gregdek: XX FAIL
Mar 06 23:53:27 <gregdek> :)
Mar 06 23:53:27 <jmbuser> eyes upward
Mar 06 23:53:28 <stickster> haha
Mar 06 23:53:36 <gregdek> Eyes upward! Exactly!
Mar 06 23:53:41 <JonRob> tw2113: would be such an awesome poster!!
Mar 06 23:53:48 <jmbuser> sleeve rolled up with a wrench in one hand
Mar 06 23:53:50 <stickster> "They Had Their Eyes on Heaven."
Mar 06 23:53:57 <stickster> Rosie the Riveter!
Mar 06 23:54:03 <gregdek> I'm telling you. Those communists knew
their propaganda. Social realism.
Mar 06 23:54:06 <JonRob> oh that could be an awesome poster
Mar 06 23:54:08 <tw2113> "They had their eyes on the infinite abyss"
Mar 06 23:54:14 <stickster> That sounds... scary
Mar 06 23:54:17 <JonRob> what's all this "had"
Mar 06 23:54:22 <JonRob> has :)
Mar 06 23:54:23 <tw2113> have*
Mar 06 23:54:31 <JonRob> or have yes lol
Mar 06 23:54:39 <jmbuser> gazing on infinity
Mar 06 23:54:39 <JonRob> anyway...where is this heading exactly?
Mar 06 23:54:42 <tw2113> "With Fedora, the terrorists haven't won"
Mar 06 23:54:53 <stickster> We're not being funny, we're really trying
to figure out a personality.
Mar 06 23:54:56 <gregdek> Where this is going:
Mar 06 23:55:04 <stickster> Shadowman is a personality, but he
personifies Red Hat, for example.
Mar 06 23:55:04 <gregdek> Well, what stickster said.
Mar 06 23:55:12 <gregdek> We're looking for the personification of our brand.
Mar 06 23:55:12 * stickster gives back the thunda
Mar 06 23:55:23 <gregdek> Just like Shadowman has become the
personification of the Red Hat brand.
Mar 06 23:55:28 <JonRob> ok cool - just like to keep my head straight :)
Mar 06 23:55:30 <tw2113> aw carpy! i have to leave soon
Mar 06 23:55:39 <gregdek> Yeah, we're running up on our hour.
Mar 06 23:55:40 <stickster> Spartacus.
Mar 06 23:55:46 <gregdek> I AM SPARTACUS!
Mar 06 23:55:58 <stickster> If you want the movie personification of
Fedora, that's it.
Mar 06 23:56:02 <gregdek> Spartacus. Braveheart.
Mar 06 23:56:07 <tw2113> This Is Fedora
Mar 06 23:56:09 <jmbuser> Gladiator
Mar 06 23:56:18
<JonRob> http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=rosie+the+riveter&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&r...
Mar 06 23:56:19 <gregdek> Ben Hur.
Mar 06 23:56:24 <stickster> Well, except William Wallace slept with
someone else's wife, which is arguably not kosher.
Mar 06 23:56:25 <JonRob> i really think awesome stuff could be done with this
Mar 06 23:56:33 <stickster> (in the movie, no idea about IRL)
Mar 06 23:56:33 <JonRob> and because it's a well known image would
have a lot of impact
Mar 06 23:56:34 <gregdek> stickster: Killjoy.
Mar 06 23:56:36 <stickster> gregdek: lol
Mar 06 23:56:42 <gregdek> OK...
Mar 06 23:56:58 <jmbuser> MS has a real heroes campaign going on -
just to let you know
Mar 06 23:57:00 <gregdek> ...so let's think more about this and maybe
comment on-list.
Mar 06 23:57:00 <tw2113> i'm thinking of an audio clip for a
prowrestler that i could maybe make into something about Fedora
Mar 06 23:57:00 <gregdek> :)
Mar 06 23:57:03 <tw2113> i'll check it out later
Mar 06 23:57:17 <stickster> jmbuser: So did Hitler, I think.
Mar 06 23:57:19 <gregdek> That leaves Strategy and Tactics, which we
haven't even touched yet, and we're at the end of our hour.
Mar 06 23:57:45 * stickster can keep going but is sensitive to others'
valuable time.
Mar 06 23:58:00 * gregdek can keep going for another 1/2hr, for those
who can join us.
Mar 06 23:58:05 <JonRob> i'm good for 10 more mins
Mar 06 23:58:13 * jmbuser is fine with that
Mar 06 23:58:14 * iWolf is still here
Mar 06 23:58:20 <tw2113> i'm good for as long as it takes to get
dressed for work
Mar 06 23:58:30 <stickster> tw2113: the secret is layers
Mar 06 23:58:33 <gregdek> Do we want to dig into S+T?
Mar 06 23:58:35 <stickster> gregdek: onward!
Mar 06 23:58:37 <tw2113> i'll just read the minutes for what i miss
Mar 06 23:58:43 <gregdek> S+T! jonrob?
Mar 06 23:58:48 <JonRob> yeah sure let's do it
Mar 06 23:59:06 <gregdek> Warning: this is huge and will take multiple
meetings. :)
Mar 06 23:59:21 <stickster> right.
Mar 06 23:59:30 <gregdek> (In fact, will likely be the heart of this
group does, once we've established the basics.)
Mar 06 23:59:44 <gregdek> Any comments on what we've got so far?
Mar 06 23:59:54 <stickster> Maybe it makes more sense, then, to make
sure we've nailed down the foregoing parts.
Mar 07 00:00:11 <gregdek> Hm.
Mar 07 00:00:12 <gregdek> Maybe.
Mar 07 00:00:16 * iWolf made comments on the list
Mar 07 00:00:19 <stickster> Since we'll live in that section for{ever, longer}.
Mar 07 00:00:28 <JonRob> stickster: my only question is what of the
short/medium terms
Mar 07 00:00:28 <gregdek> (oops... /me must wander afk, brb...)
Mar 07 00:00:34 <JonRob> this document aims to make a difference long-term
Mar 07 00:00:43 <JonRob> but i think we really need to make
improvements in the short term too
Mar 07 00:00:45 <stickster> o noez! we had a leeder but dey eated him.
Mar 07 00:01:01 <mether> what is working and what is not working in
whatever we have tried so far
Mar 07 00:01:05 <mether> lets get to that
Mar 07 00:01:13 <JonRob> mether: +1
Mar 07 00:01:34 <mether> i see some articles getting diggs and some
just getting lost in the interviews we make for example
Mar 07 00:01:36 <stickster> Things which work: * Our release
schedule. (predictability)
Mar 07 00:01:43 <tw2113> talk to you all later
Mar 07 00:01:44 <mether> but interviews in general are a good strategy
Mar 07 00:01:53 <JonRob> tw2113: bye :)
Mar 07 00:02:07 <stickster> mether: Notice that the one article which
concerned the larger world (Jack + NASA) got a HUGE uptake on digg.
Mar 07 00:02:13 <mether> since it keeps us in the news and highlights
our contributions. makes our contributors proud
Mar 07 00:02:15 <jmbuser> tw2113: bye
Mar 07 00:02:18 <JonRob> stickster: true
Mar 07 00:02:24 <stickster> I think we need to strive for relevance
beyond just the FOSS community.
Mar 07 00:02:39 <jmbuser> NASA article most dugg Fedora article of all time
Mar 07 00:02:47 <mether> wikipedia is a big Fedora user. Have we
approached them?
Mar 07 00:02:52 <stickster> mether: Great idea!
Mar 07 00:02:56 <JonRob> mether: i had no idea
Mar 07 00:02:58 <JonRob> but it's a damn good idea
Mar 07 00:03:00 <jmbuser> +1
Mar 07 00:03:07 <stickster> Google is too, but somehow I think we may
not get as much traction there ;-)
Mar 07 00:03:24 <jmbuser> Google has a brown tint ltely
Mar 07 00:03:29 <mether> JonRob:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers
Mar 07 00:03:39 <jmbuser> s / ltely /lately /
Mar 07 00:03:39 <JonRob> but then the question remains, what medium do we use?
Mar 07 00:04:04 <stickster> jmbuser: ?
Mar 07 00:04:23 <mether> there are two things to be done
Mar 07 00:04:39 <mether> find out the big users and promote that.
figure out how to retain them and solve their issues
Mar 07 00:04:52 <stickster> (while remaining true to our mission)
Mar 07 00:05:02 <mether> it will help us understand out strong points too
Mar 07 00:05:11 * jmbuser refers to recent hostings of other distro's
conferences
Mar 07 00:05:16 <JonRob> mether: +1
Mar 07 00:05:34 <gregdek> Wow, I walk away and you guys start a *real* meeting.
Mar 07 00:05:38 <stickster> jmbuser: They've also funded at least one
FUDCon that I know of.
Mar 07 00:05:48 <stickster> s/funded/funded in part/
Mar 07 00:05:48 <mether> I am pretty sure a lot of RHEL users use
Fedora in parallel
Mar 07 00:05:59 <mether> thats where Red Hat marketing can help
Mar 07 00:06:01 <stickster> mether: What's the second thing?
Mar 07 00:06:02 <jmbuser> stickster: How come I never heard about it?
Mar 07 00:06:05 <stickster> Or was that it?
Mar 07 00:06:10 <mether> stickster: that was it
Mar 07 00:06:13 <JonRob> yeah, i was about to ask if RedHat could help
us find out who's using Fedora
Mar 07 00:06:16 <stickster> ok
Mar 07 00:06:45 <mether> jmbuser: fudcon boston 2007 - they were one
of the sponsors
Mar 07 00:06:51 <stickster> It may or may not be possible for some or
all of them to tell us as a matter of competitive strategery
Mar 07 00:07:12 <stickster> If you do or don't ask me, the above notwithstanding
Mar 07 00:07:36 <mether> sure. so let's say we talk to the ones that
are willing to talk to us
Mar 07 00:07:47 <jmbuser> My point is that Ubuntu has the perception
of being really tight with Google, which lets them bask in Google's
reflected glory
Mar 07 00:07:56 <jmbuser> eof
Mar 07 00:08:23 <mether> we dont need to pick a fight on that account to win
Mar 07 00:08:24 <gregdek> jmbuser: Good.
Mar 07 00:08:34 <gregdek> Because it's time for us to associate with wikia. :)
Mar 07 00:08:39 * stickster thought that was all hoax anyway.
Mar 07 00:08:43 <stickster> But yeah, who cares?
Mar 07 00:08:59 * stickster likes the tie in between wikia,
distributed web crawling, and the new Fedora @Home idea.
Mar 07 00:09:04 <gregdek> Ding ding ding.
Mar 07 00:09:16 <gregdek> There's gonna be a *ton* of cool stuff we
can do with that.
Mar 07 00:09:27 <gregdek> In fact, and I think we may be moving more
into board-level strategy here...
Mar 07 00:09:31 <mether> yeah. I think we got the message of
innovation out there with atleast a few different projects
Mar 07 00:09:37 <mether> smolt is one
Mar 07 00:09:40 <mether> SELinux is another
Mar 07 00:09:57 <jmbuser> spins
Mar 07 00:10:08 <mether> We should keep promoting transifex too.
Fedora@home could be the next big thing
Mar 07 00:10:12 <jmbuser> pulseaudio
Mar 07 00:10:14 * stickster interjects once again that what sells
papers is Relevance to the Common Man. Even on the interwebz.
Mar 07 00:10:21 <gregdek> ...a comprehensive agreement with Jimbo
Wales to strengthen the Fedora/Wikia branding, including using Wikia
as our default search in Firefox/Iceweasel/whatever, would make a
*HUGE* statement about what we *really* think about Google.
Mar 07 00:10:22 <mether> along with Virtualization
Mar 07 00:10:37 <jmbuser> gregdek: +1
Mar 07 00:10:39 <JonRob> gregdek +1
Mar 07 00:10:49 <jmbuser> great association
Mar 07 00:10:55 <JonRob> so, as a follow up, who wants to get in touch
with the wikia people?
Mar 07 00:10:59 <gregdek> I will.
Mar 07 00:11:02 <mether> gregdek: how does that match with the
agreement with Google that is ongoing now?
Mar 07 00:11:05 <gregdek> Actually, I'll ask Jack to.
Mar 07 00:11:09 <stickster> What agreement?
Mar 07 00:11:12 <gregdek> mether: That agreement is dead.
Mar 07 00:11:19 <stickster> We agree... to disagree.
Mar 07 00:11:25 <mether> there has been one under discussion for a long while
Mar 07 00:11:29 <mether> afaik
Mar 07 00:11:32 <gregdek> The one at the board level?
Mar 07 00:11:35 <mether> yes
Mar 07 00:11:36 <gregdek> The one I was spearheading?
Mar 07 00:11:40 <stickster> lol
Mar 07 00:11:45 <mether> gregdek: YES
Mar 07 00:11:51 <gregdek> The one that I killed earlier this week
because Google lawyers are intractable?
Mar 07 00:11:53 <gregdek> That one?
Mar 07 00:11:54 <gregdek> :)
Mar 07 00:12:02 * stickster has paroxysms
Mar 07 00:12:03 <mether> you never informed us. so...
Mar 07 00:12:07 <gregdek> ...
Mar 07 00:12:09 <jmbuser> :-(
Mar 07 00:12:13 <gregdek> I sent it to the board.
Mar 07 00:12:13 <mether> anyway, so lets talk to wikia then
Mar 07 00:12:23 <gregdek> Sorry, I should have sent it out more broadly.
Mar 07 00:12:34 <gregdek> stickster: should I resend that note to f-a-l?
Mar 07 00:12:38 <JonRob> i think it also sends a strong singal of us
leading innvoation, as was done with the wifi drivers etc too
Mar 07 00:13:05 <stickster> gregdek: I don't know... it was all
theoretical as far as I could see -- was there actual Board work on
this pre-February?
Mar 07 00:13:20 <mether> gregdek: i think you should announce the
agreement with wikia asap.
Mar 07 00:13:23 * gregdek hrms.
Mar 07 00:13:26 <stickster> It would be great if we had one first.
Mar 07 00:13:30 <JonRob> lol
Mar 07 00:13:32 <gregdek> Well, people who read the irc logs will know. :)
Mar 07 00:13:34 <mether> thats the hint
Mar 07 00:13:39 * gregdek shrugs.
Mar 07 00:13:48 <stickster> swymamwys.
Mar 07 00:13:52 <mether> anyway, move on
Mar 07 00:14:01 <gregdek> I don't think anyone outside of a few people
will care that "the Fedora deal with Google that wasn't coming through
still isn't coming through."
Mar 07 00:14:10 <stickster> disco.
Mar 07 00:14:10 <gregdek> But I think *a ton* of people will care if
we can make a deal with Wikia.
Mar 07 00:14:17 <gregdek> Therefore, I will work on Jimbo. sok?
Mar 07 00:14:27 <mether> sure
Mar 07 00:14:27 <stickster> gregdek: This we should definitely post on f-a-b.
Mar 07 00:15:13 <gregdek> stickster: It may involve breaking
partnership with Mozilla, since helping them maintain their deal with
Google seems to be part of our deal to use the Firefox name.
Mar 07 00:15:13 <stickster> So I think we can definitely tie this in
to S&T -- users --> contributors in Fedora-land.
Mar 07 00:15:25 <gregdek> (Sorry, I'll take this offline.(
Mar 07 00:16:05 <JonRob> np
Mar 07 00:16:14 <JonRob> i think i'm about done with this for the evening
Mar 07 00:16:43 <JonRob> (lol sorry, that sounded way more negative
than i meant - been a rough day here!)
Mar 07 00:16:52 <gregdek> Ha!
Mar 07 00:17:01 * jmbuser makes last call for wiki edit
Mar 07 00:17:03 <gregdek> I think we've had a great meeting, but I
think it's breaking up.
Mar 07 00:17:15 <stickster> We did in fact hit some S&T heer.
Mar 07 00:17:16 <stickster> *here
Mar 07 00:17:56 <stickster> My constant reiteration is going to be
"relevance." Someone said to me the other day, with regard to the
Fedora @Home MRG thing, "We could help SETI!"
Mar 07 00:18:06 <stickster> My response was basically, "Screw that, we
could help kids with cancer."
Mar 07 00:18:20 <JonRob> stickster: is very true
Mar 07 00:18:21 <stickster> After which I realized, "We could do
both," was right.
Mar 07 00:18:37 <JonRob> anyhow all,
Mar 07 00:18:42 <stickster> But one of those will "sell papers."
Three guesses which!
Mar 07 00:18:43 <JonRob> nice to speak to everyone as always
Mar 07 00:19:06 <JonRob> are we doing this same time next week? i
might not be here actually, going home for easter :)
Mar 07 00:19:31 <gregdek> I would like to, yes.
Mar 07 00:19:48 <gregdek> Even if not everyone shows. I think
consistent meeting times are incredibly important.
Mar 07 00:19:56 <JonRob> ok - good by me
Mar 07 00:20:01 * jmbuser will publish log
Mar 07 00:20:06 <JonRob> thanks all, and best wishes :)
Mar 07 00:20:11 <mether> yep
Mar 07 00:20:18 * JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")
Mar 07 00:20:25 <mether> everybody else
Mar 07 00:20:30 <mether> refresh once the marketing plan page
Mar 07 00:20:36 <mether> and see if there is something we disagree with
Mar 07 00:20:45 <mether> since a number of edits have been made
Mar 07 00:21:55 <mether> did everyone leave?
Mar 07 00:22:16 <gregdek> Heh.
Mar 07 00:22:20 <gregdek> I did.
Mar 07 00:24:00 <jmbuser> mether: what happened to FOSS mixers? seems
to be deleted from your last save
Mar 07 00:24:20 <mether> nah
Mar 07 00:24:22 <mether> it is still there
Mar 07 00:24:26 <stickster> jmbuser: Are you still editing?
Mar 07 00:24:55 <jmbuser> mether got the last edit in - I got 502 error :-)
Mar 07 00:28:16 * stickster fixes the market w/hubris.
Mar 07 00:28:27 <jmbuser> Is anyone calling the meeting?
Mar 07 00:28:41 * jmbuser needs to know where to end log
Mar 07 00:29:16 <mether> you can end when jonrob left
Mar 07 00:29:19 <stickster> </meeting>
16 years, 1 month
Fedora Marketing Meeting 3/6, recap
by Greg DeKoenigsberg
Hi folks. The (very) quick recap:
We discussed the Marketing Plan document and made some modifications to
the copy currently on the wiki. We discussed Target Audience and Brand
Positioning, and our current thoughts are summed up on the Plan page:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan
We feel like Target Audience is pretty strong, but we're going to continue
to iterate over Brand Positioning. Once we have that right, we'll move on
to Key Marketing Messages, and then the rest of our lives as a
group will probably be spent refining our Strategies and Tactics.
Productive discussions, and exciting for people who enjoy the challenge of
communicating The Big Fedora Message. Look forward to seeing more and
more join the discussion over time.
Next meeting: next Thursday, 2000 UTC. (Note to US Americans: don't get
caught by the time change! We will have the meeting at 2000 UTC, no
matter what that means after we Spring Forward!)
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
16 years, 1 month
Re: Build Your Own Distro doesn't mention Fedora? (fwd)
by Greg DeKoenigsberg
Jonathan, something to consider in your tactics discussion -- how do we
get more favorable articles into print magazines?
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:45:07 -0600
From: Joe Casad <jcasad(a)linux-magazine.com>
To: Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com>
Cc: letters(a)linux-magazine.com
Subject: Re: Build Your Own Distro doesn't mention Fedora?
Hello, Greg--
Thanks for your message. I just wanted to let you know that the reason we
didn't provide an article on the Fedora customization tools is that we've
already covered them. We had an article on livecd-creator and Revisor in our
December 2007 issue:
http://www.linux-magazine.com/issues/2007/85/original_spin
BTW: We also included a screenshot and description of these spin tools in our
August 2007 issue, which came with a Fedora 7 DVD.
The Fedora tools were actually the first ones we wrote about.
We're very interested in providing good coverage of Fedora, so let me know if
you can think of other interesting and original Fedora tools or features that
might be a good topic for an article.
Best regards,
-Joe Casad
Linux Pro Magazine
Linux Magazine International
On Mar 4, 2008, at 2:31 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>
> I've got to say, I'm pretty disappointed that the Fedora customization tools
> weren't even mentioned in your March 2008 issue -- considering that it was
> one of the biggest features of our Fedora 7 release, which came out almost a
> year ago. Was there any particular reason for this oversight? If you need
> some help on such an article, I know a bunch of people who would be happy to
> provide you with some content, myself included.
>
> Check out our article from last year:
>
> http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/
>
> --g
>
> --
> Greg DeKoenigsberg
> Community Development Manager
> Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
> "To whomsoever much hath been given...
> ...from him much shall be asked"
>
16 years, 1 month
Strategies and Tactics
by Jonathan Roberts
Hey all,
So following from last weeks meeting, I've begun filling out the
strategies and tactics section on the marketing plan. It's sparse
right now (and possible I've misunderstood the concept behind some of
the bits!).
Jeroen (and all), what do you think thus far? I think we're going to
need some input from RH who (or so I hear through the grape vine) have
offered advice on the strategies and tactics section. Max, you said
you'd be able to put us in touch?
Best wishes,
Jon
16 years, 1 month
Store SIG Meeting 2008-03-05 - Canceled
by Jeffrey Tadlock
The Store SIG meeting will not be held this week. The past week did
not progress as I had planned and there is not a lot to report this
week.
If you have any questions about how things are progressing feel free
to send me email or ping me on IRC. I will be happy to answer them.
Thanks!
Jeffrey
16 years, 1 month
