The Port Experts Team has review your application (included below). The team has the following questions with respect to your request:
-----
I'd like to summarize what I understand of the application, and then ask a question or two:
This application is for an additional TCP port 49000 for a service called "matahari", to be used for configuration management of QMF/QPid implementations. Justification for this port assignment seems to be that privileged communications must be separated from normal operations, and that QMF will run atop Matahari. Given this, aren't we really talking about a newer version of AMQP? Could not the AMQP version be bumped? We seek more information as to why precisely different ports should be used.
Also, there is an inconsistency in the application:
The applicant has stated that multicast may be used, and yet the application is only for TCP. This is generally inadvisable and impracticable, given the state machine that TCP uses.
-----
Please resolve the above questions. If we do not receive the information from you within 30 days, your request will be closed without prejudice, as a matter of administrative procedure.
Thank you,
Pearl Liang IANA
On Wed Aug 24 09:22:44 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote:
On 24/08/11 18:04, Pearl Liang via RT wrote:
Thank you for the reply.
Assignee Name (REQUIRED): Matahari Project Assignee E-mail (REQUIRED): matahari@lists.fedorahosted.org
Please confirm if http://matahariproject.org/ is the organization's website.
Yes, that is correct.
On Wed Aug 24 06:07:57 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote:
Assignee Name (REQUIRED): Matahari Project Assignee E-mail (REQUIRED): matahari@lists.fedorahosted.org (The Assignee is the organization, company or individual person responsible for the initial assignment. ) Contact Name (REQUIRED): Zane Bitter Contact E-mail (REQUIRED): zbitter@redhat.com
Transport Protocol(s) (REQUIRED): (Please indicate which protocols
are
currently required.) [ X ] TCP [ ] UDP [ ] SCTP [ ] DCCP
Service Code (REQUIRED for DCCP only)
A: ____________________________
Service Name (REQUIRED, 15 character maximum):
A: matahari
Desired Port Number (OPTIONAL, for Port Number only)
A: 49000 NOTE: It is *inappropriate* to use a port number until your application has been approved for assignment. Leave it blank if no number
preference.
Description (REQUIRED) (For example: Super User Messaging)
A: Matahari Broker
Reference (REQUIRED): Please provide a brief and basic technical description of the protocol that will use the service name or port number, including message formats, types, sequences, functionalities, of your protocol. In addition, please address the specific questions included below to the extent possible.
A: The Matahari server is an implementation of an Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) broker. Matahari uses a subset of the Qpid Management Framework (QMF), which sits on top of AMQP (Apache Qpid
is
an implementation of AMQP). AMQP is an open standard which is
documented
here: http://www.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp.0- 10.pdf
In short, AMQP is a generic protocol for handling message queues. Client applications can create and subscribe to queues and publish
messages
to them.
Matahari (http://www.matahariproject.org/) is a service to provide remote access to system management APIs over QMF. Existing APIs support system configuration and querying of system parameters for virtual servers, however the protocol is extensible so users can add their
own
custom APIs.
Q: If broadcast/multicast is used, how and what for?
A: Multicast may optionally be used to efficiently combine multiple brokers into a high-availability cluster.
Q: If UDP is requested, please explain how traffic is limited, and whether the protocol reacts to congestion.
A:
Q: If UDP is requested, please indicate whether the service is
solely
for the discovery of hosts supporting this protocol.
A:
Q: Please explain how your protocol supports versioning.
A: All AMQP messages begin with a version field, and AMQP defines a method for the client and server to negotiate a mutually compatible protocol version. QMF objects have a schema which can be queried
over
the protocol.
Q: If your request is for more than one transport, please explain
in
detail how the protocol differs over each transport.
A:
Q: Please describe how your protocol supports security. Please note that there is current debate as to whether additional future ports will
be
allocated for newly assigned services that lack security, e.g.,
solely
for the addition of a secure variant. Applicants are strongly
advised
to address this issue as early as possible in the design of their protocols.
A: The protocol may optionally be tunnelled over SSL.
Q: Please explain the state of development of your protocol.
A: AMQP is a published open standard with four published versions since 2006 and multiple available implementations. QMF has undergone a
major
revision and is now considered stable.
Q: If SCTP is requested, please describe the following: Is there an existing TCP and/or UDP service name or port number assignment? If so, please indicate the details below:
Service Name: _______________; Port number: _______________
What specific SCTP capability is used by the application such that
a
user who has the choice of both TCP (and/or UDP) and SCTP ports for this application would choose SCTP? See [RFC4960 section 7.1] (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4960#section-7.1)
A:
Please provide any other information that would be helpful in understanding how this protocol differs from existing assigned services.
A: Matahari differs from a generic AMQP broker in that it requires
the
QMF protocol running on top, so only the Apache Qpid implementation
of
AMQP can be used. Since Matahari is designed for system
configuration,
for security reasons it places a tighter than usual set of restrictions on how the connection can be used, and thus must be segregated from regular applications' AMQP traffic.
On Wed Aug 24 06:07:57 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote: Application for User Registered Port Number
Name : Zane Bitter
E-mail : zbitter@redhat.com
Protocol Number : TCP
Message Formats : Protocol version, type, channel, size, payload
Message Types : Method, Header, Body, Heartbeat
Message opcodes : Channel: Open, Open-Ok, Close, Close-Ok Exchange: Declare, Delete Queue: Declare, Declare-Ok, Bind, Bind-Ok Basic: Publish, Consume, Cancel, Deliver, Return, Ack, Reject, Get Transaction: Select, Publish, Ack, Commit, Roll-back
Message Sequences : See: https://www.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp0-9-1.pdf
Protocol functions : Queuing and routing of messages for applications.
Broadcast or Multicast used ? yes
How and what for Broadcast and Multicast is used (if used): Multicast may optionally be used to efficiently combine multiple brokers into a high-availability cluster.
Description : Matahari (http://www.matahariproject.org/) is a service to provide remote access to system management APIs. Existing APIs support system configuration and querying of system parameters for virtual servers, however the protocol is extensible so users can add their own custom APIs.
The server is an implementation of an Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) broker. AMQP is an existing open standard (http://www.ampq.org/). On a Matahari server, communication occurs through the Qpid Management Framework which sits on top of AMQP. (Apache Qpid is an implementation of AMQP.)
Name of the port : Matahari Broker
Short name of the port : matahari
zane, I'm going to provide comments here locally first to make sure we're all on the same page. Once I do that, please respond back to the iana with what I said if we're all in agreement
On 08/25/2011 04:58 PM, Pearl Liang via RT wrote:
The Port Experts Team has review your application (included below). The team has the following questions with respect to your request:
I'd like to summarize what I understand of the application, and then ask a question or two:
This application is for an additional TCP port 49000 for a service called "matahari", to be used for configuration management of QMF/QPid implementations. Justification for this port assignment seems to be that privileged communications must be separated from normal operations, and that QMF will run atop Matahari. Given this, aren't we really talking about a newer version of AMQP? Could not the AMQP version be bumped? We seek more information as to why precisely different ports should be used.
(response to iana) matahari is a specific usage of AMQP (via an implementation called qpid (qpid.apache.org)). The reason for a separate port is that end users may want to run a vanilla AMQP service on their hosts which is logically separate from the matahari AMQP bus. We cannot force generic users of AMQP to coexist their services with ours, so we request a separate port so that our specific usage of AMQP can remain logically separate. Also, QMF does not run atop matahari. Matahari runs atop QMF, which itself runs atop qpid (which is the AMQP implementation)
Also, there is an inconsistency in the application:
The applicant has stated that multicast may be used, and yet the application is only for TCP. This is generally inadvisable and impracticable, given the state machine that TCP uses.
(internal comments) multicast does not need to be used. This is just point to point TCP.
AMQP itself can optionally use multicast when running clustered brokers via Corosync/Openais, but I don't think we will ever need to run clustered brokers in a matahari deployment. So I think mention of multicast here should just be removed
(response to iana) Multicast mention here was a mistake. This is just pure point to point TCP
On 26/08/11 04:13, Perry Myers wrote:
zane, I'm going to provide comments here locally first to make sure we're all on the same page. Once I do that, please respond back to the iana with what I said if we're all in agreement
On 08/25/2011 04:58 PM, Pearl Liang via RT wrote:
The Port Experts Team has review your application (included below). The team has the following questions with respect to your request:
I'd like to summarize what I understand of the application, and then ask a question or two:
This application is for an additional TCP port 49000 for a service called "matahari", to be used for configuration management of QMF/QPid implementations. Justification for this port assignment seems to be that privileged communications must be separated from normal operations, and that QMF will run atop Matahari. Given this, aren't we really talking about a newer version of AMQP? Could not the AMQP version be bumped? We seek more information as to why precisely different ports should be used.
(response to iana) matahari is a specific usage of AMQP (via an implementation called qpid (qpid.apache.org)). The reason for a separate port is that end users may want to run a vanilla AMQP service on their hosts which is logically separate from the matahari AMQP bus. We cannot force generic users of AMQP to coexist their services with ours, so we request a separate port so that our specific usage of AMQP can remain logically separate. Also, QMF does not run atop matahari. Matahari runs atop QMF, which itself runs atop qpid (which is the AMQP implementation)
Agree, and also I think they may have misunderstood what matahari is configuring: "to be used for configuration management of QMF/QPid implementations." - we're not configuring the QMF/QPid implementation, we're configuring the whole system.
Also, there is an inconsistency in the application:
The applicant has stated that multicast may be used, and yet the application is only for TCP. This is generally inadvisable and impracticable, given the state machine that TCP uses.
(internal comments) multicast does not need to be used. This is just point to point TCP.
AMQP itself can optionally use multicast when running clustered brokers via Corosync/Openais, but I don't think we will ever need to run clustered brokers in a matahari deployment. So I think mention of multicast here should just be removed
(response to iana) Multicast mention here was a mistake. This is just pure point to point TCP
Yep, agreed.
On 25/08/11 22:58, Pearl Liang via RT wrote:
The Port Experts Team has review your application (included below). The team has the following questions with respect to your request:
I'd like to summarize what I understand of the application, and then ask a question or two:
This application is for an additional TCP port 49000 for a service called "matahari", to be used for configuration management of QMF/QPid implementations. Justification for this port assignment seems to be that privileged communications must be separated from normal operations, and that QMF will run atop Matahari. Given this, aren't we really talking about a newer version of AMQP? Could not the AMQP version be bumped? We seek more information as to why precisely different ports should be used.
A couple of clarifications may help here: 1) The purpose of matahari is not to configure QMF/Qpid, but to configure the entire system. For example, starting and stopping network interfaces, services, virtual machines or entire boxes. 2) QMF does not run atop matahari. Matahari runs atop QMF, which itself runs atop Apache Qpid (which is the AMQP implementation).
The reason for a separate port is that end users may want to run a vanilla AMQP service on their hosts which is logically separate from the matahari AMQP bus. We cannot force generic users of AMQP to have their services coexist with ours (for instance, they may require a different implementation of AMQP), so we request a separate port so that our specific usage of AMQP can remain logically separate.
Also, there is an inconsistency in the application:
The applicant has stated that multicast may be used, and yet the application is only for TCP. This is generally inadvisable and impracticable, given the state machine that TCP uses.
Yes, the information in the multicast section is erroneous - please disregard it. There is no multicast or broadcast used on the matahari port.
thanks, Zane.
Please resolve the above questions. If we do not receive the information from you within 30 days, your request will be closed without prejudice, as a matter of administrative procedure.
Thank you,
Pearl Liang IANA
On Wed Aug 24 09:22:44 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote:
On 24/08/11 18:04, Pearl Liang via RT wrote:
Thank you for the reply.
Assignee Name (REQUIRED): Matahari Project Assignee E-mail (REQUIRED): matahari@lists.fedorahosted.org
Please confirm if http://matahariproject.org/ is the organization's website.
Yes, that is correct.
On Wed Aug 24 06:07:57 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote:
Assignee Name (REQUIRED): Matahari Project Assignee E-mail (REQUIRED): matahari@lists.fedorahosted.org (The Assignee is the organization, company or individual person responsible for the initial assignment. ) Contact Name (REQUIRED): Zane Bitter Contact E-mail (REQUIRED): zbitter@redhat.com
Transport Protocol(s) (REQUIRED): (Please indicate which protocols
are
currently required.) [ X ] TCP [ ] UDP [ ] SCTP [ ] DCCP
Service Code (REQUIRED for DCCP only)
A: ____________________________
Service Name (REQUIRED, 15 character maximum):
A: matahari
Desired Port Number (OPTIONAL, for Port Number only)
A: 49000 NOTE: It is *inappropriate* to use a port number until your application has been approved for assignment. Leave it blank if no number
preference.
Description (REQUIRED) (For example: Super User Messaging)
A: Matahari Broker
Reference (REQUIRED): Please provide a brief and basic technical description of the protocol that will use the service name or port number, including message formats, types, sequences, functionalities, of your protocol. In addition, please address the specific questions included below to the extent possible.
A: The Matahari server is an implementation of an Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) broker. Matahari uses a subset of the Qpid Management Framework (QMF), which sits on top of AMQP (Apache Qpid
is
an implementation of AMQP). AMQP is an open standard which is
documented
here: http://www.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp.0- 10.pdf
In short, AMQP is a generic protocol for handling message queues. Client applications can create and subscribe to queues and publish
messages
to them.
Matahari (http://www.matahariproject.org/) is a service to provide remote access to system management APIs over QMF. Existing APIs support system configuration and querying of system parameters for virtual servers, however the protocol is extensible so users can add their
own
custom APIs.
Q: If broadcast/multicast is used, how and what for?
A: Multicast may optionally be used to efficiently combine multiple brokers into a high-availability cluster.
Q: If UDP is requested, please explain how traffic is limited, and whether the protocol reacts to congestion.
A:
Q: If UDP is requested, please indicate whether the service is
solely
for the discovery of hosts supporting this protocol.
A:
Q: Please explain how your protocol supports versioning.
A: All AMQP messages begin with a version field, and AMQP defines a method for the client and server to negotiate a mutually compatible protocol version. QMF objects have a schema which can be queried
over
the protocol.
Q: If your request is for more than one transport, please explain
in
detail how the protocol differs over each transport.
A:
Q: Please describe how your protocol supports security. Please note that there is current debate as to whether additional future ports will
be
allocated for newly assigned services that lack security, e.g.,
solely
for the addition of a secure variant. Applicants are strongly
advised
to address this issue as early as possible in the design of their protocols.
A: The protocol may optionally be tunnelled over SSL.
Q: Please explain the state of development of your protocol.
A: AMQP is a published open standard with four published versions since 2006 and multiple available implementations. QMF has undergone a
major
revision and is now considered stable.
Q: If SCTP is requested, please describe the following: Is there an existing TCP and/or UDP service name or port number assignment? If so, please indicate the details below:
Service Name: _______________; Port number: _______________
What specific SCTP capability is used by the application such that
a
user who has the choice of both TCP (and/or UDP) and SCTP ports for this application would choose SCTP? See [RFC4960 section 7.1] (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4960#section-7.1)
A:
Please provide any other information that would be helpful in understanding how this protocol differs from existing assigned services.
A: Matahari differs from a generic AMQP broker in that it requires
the
QMF protocol running on top, so only the Apache Qpid implementation
of
AMQP can be used. Since Matahari is designed for system
configuration,
for security reasons it places a tighter than usual set of restrictions on how the connection can be used, and thus must be segregated from regular applications' AMQP traffic.
On Wed Aug 24 06:07:57 2011, zbitter@redhat.com wrote: Application for User Registered Port Number
Name : Zane Bitter
E-mail : zbitter@redhat.com
Protocol Number : TCP
Message Formats : Protocol version, type, channel, size, payload
Message Types : Method, Header, Body, Heartbeat
Message opcodes : Channel: Open, Open-Ok, Close, Close-Ok Exchange: Declare, Delete Queue: Declare, Declare-Ok, Bind, Bind-Ok Basic: Publish, Consume, Cancel, Deliver, Return, Ack, Reject, Get Transaction: Select, Publish, Ack, Commit, Roll-back
Message Sequences : See: https://www.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp0-9-1.pdf
Protocol functions : Queuing and routing of messages for applications.
Broadcast or Multicast used ? yes
How and what for Broadcast and Multicast is used (if used): Multicast may optionally be used to efficiently combine multiple brokers into a high-availability cluster.
Description : Matahari (http://www.matahariproject.org/) is a service to provide remote access to system management APIs. Existing APIs support system configuration and querying of system parameters for virtual servers, however the protocol is extensible so users can add their own custom APIs.
The server is an implementation of an Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) broker. AMQP is an existing open standard (http://www.ampq.org/). On a Matahari server, communication occurs through the Qpid Management Framework which sits on top of AMQP. (Apache Qpid is an implementation of AMQP.)
Name of the port : Matahari Broker
Short name of the port : matahari
matahari@lists.fedorahosted.org
-
Pearl Liang via RT -
Perry Myers -
Zane Bitter