Meeting minutes from today's Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2013-11-05)
by Marcela Mašláňová
============================================
#fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2013-11-05)
============================================
Meeting started by mmaslano at 16:02:38 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-05/environment_an...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* init process (mmaslano, 16:05:34)
* communication channels (mmaslano, 16:06:15)
* mailing list was set env-and-stacks(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
(mmaslano, 16:12:19)
* no new irc channel because of many time zones most of the
communication will be happening on mailing list (mmaslano,
16:13:00)
* Meeting frequency and times (mmaslano, 16:15:26)
* LINK: http://whenisgood.net/fedenvstk/results/q3gmp7 (abadger1999,
16:24:49)
* odd and even weeks will have different time for meetings because of
time zones (mmaslano, 16:30:02)
* AGREED: 16:00 UTC for week starting 19th November (mmaslano,
16:31:00)
* everyone will look at whenisgood and will try to pick second date.
The preferred time by juhp_ and bkabrda should be acceptable for
most of the group (mmaslano, 16:33:58)
* trac (mmaslano, 16:34:06)
* handsome_pirate will create wiki for our WG (mmaslano, 16:41:28)
* Discussions around the WG governance charter (mmaslano, 16:42:01)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Governance is Cloud's
(handsome_pirate, 16:45:14)
* abadger1999 will put together a governance draft (mmaslano,
17:05:57)
* LINK:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2013-October/008245.html
(juhp_, 17:11:49)
* rest of the discussion will happen on mailing list. abadger1999 will
write up the charter as soon as we will know what do we want to do
(mmaslano, 17:32:28)
* Open Floor (mmaslano, 17:34:59)
Meeting ended at 17:37:58 UTC.
Action Items
------------
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* handsome_pirate (85)
* mmaslano (83)
* abadger1999 (70)
* tjanez (46)
* juhp_ (41)
* drieden (18)
* samkottler (15)
* hhorak (15)
* pkovar (10)
* zodbot (4)
* nirik (2)
* masta (1)
* pknirsch (1)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
16:02:38 <mmaslano> #startmeeting Env and Stacks (2013-11-05)
16:02:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 5 16:02:38 2013 UTC. The chair is mmaslano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:02:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:02:42 * samkottler is here
16:02:47 <handsome_pirate> Yay
16:02:50 <mmaslano> #meetingname Environment and Stacks
16:02:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'environment_and_stacks'
16:02:56 * handsome_pirate waves from the crows nest
16:03:01 <tjanez> Hi
16:03:04 <juhp_> hi
16:03:06 * pkovar is here
16:03:13 * mmaslano just arrived
16:03:29 <mmaslano> hhorak: is here, hi
16:03:31 * abadger1999 here
16:03:41 <drieden> Hi
16:03:57 * hhorak is greeting
16:04:23 * handsome_pirate will be right back
16:04:46 <mmaslano> Jens is not here
16:04:57 <juhp_> I am Jens :)
16:05:05 <mmaslano> great :) hi
16:05:25 <mmaslano> I'll do table of members for next week...
16:05:34 <mmaslano> #topic init process
16:06:10 <mmaslano> so let's discuss what other groups already discussed
16:06:15 <mmaslano> #topic communication channels
16:06:28 <mmaslano> We have mailing list
16:06:51 <samkottler> do we want to setup a new IRC channel?
16:07:42 <tjanez> Regarding the mailing list, I just updated its description a couple of hours ago
16:08:00 <drieden> I think an IRC channel for env and stacks would be helpful
16:08:05 <tjanez> Open to suggestions/improvements, though
16:09:16 <tjanez> I don't feel we need a new IRC channel (yet)
16:09:35 <samkottler> why not?
16:09:45 <samkottler> what's the disadvantage of having it?
16:10:07 <tjanez> samkottler: Just though mailing-list is where discussion should take place
16:10:36 <tjanez> samkottler: And there are plenty of existing IRC channels
16:10:40 <abadger1999> better than a new irc channel would just being able to find everyone on irc but given the difficulty setting up a common meeting time, that's probably a wishlist item ;-)
16:10:41 <mmaslano> discussion with friends about a problem is fine, but discussion about future of something is different thing
16:10:50 <mmaslano> abadger1999: yeah
16:11:06 <juhp_> abadger1999, hehe :)
16:11:25 <mmaslano> do you want to vote about every topic or we just agreed on something?
16:11:37 <juhp_> well I don't mind but also feel that irc channel is not so urgent
16:11:46 <samkottler> I think we can use general concensus in this case
16:11:55 <samkottler> most people don't want a new channel :-)
16:12:13 <hhorak> I'd also prefer discussions of mailing list, it's more transparent for everyone.. we can set irc channel later..
16:12:16 <tjanez> I'm fine with both, voting and consensus
16:12:19 <mmaslano> #info mailing list was set env-and-stacks(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
16:12:36 <mmaslano> ok, it also looks like consensus to me
16:13:00 <mmaslano> #info no new irc channel because of many time zones most of the communication will be happening on mailing list
16:13:34 <mmaslano> if someone's unhappy about anything, then please say so
16:13:42 <mmaslano> otherwise next topic
16:13:45 <drieden> makes sense, I agree with the no IRC.
16:14:14 <abadger1999> we could all idle in #fedora-devel I suppose.
16:14:37 <mmaslano> everyone is already there (I guess)
16:14:40 <samkottler> I think most of us already do
16:14:44 * handsome_pirate returns
16:14:59 * abadger1999 hasn't been but could start.... it was domnated by desktop flame wars for a while :-/
16:15:14 <abadger1999> actually... let's just talk about irc channels later.
16:15:21 <mmaslano> fine by me
16:15:26 <mmaslano> #topic Meeting frequency and times
16:15:30 <abadger1999> when outsiders start asking where to find us on irc.
16:15:55 * handsome_pirate isn't in #fedora-devel by default, but will be from now on
16:16:12 <juhp_> I am usually there
16:16:50 <handsome_pirate> As far as meeting frequency, while we're hashing things out, we may want to have them fairly often
16:16:53 <handsome_pirate> Weekly
16:17:10 * masta looks in and lurks
16:17:10 <handsome_pirate> Tuesday is better than Monday
16:17:20 <handsome_pirate> Fedora QA meeting is Mondays at this time
16:17:26 <mmaslano> handsome_pirate: you are evil :)
16:17:32 <handsome_pirate> mmaslano: heh
16:17:45 <mmaslano> juhp_: abadger1999: I was wondering if you wish to go to every second meeting
16:17:49 <handsome_pirate> mmaslano: We can set it up to alternate time each week so we get the most coverage
16:17:57 <mmaslano> so you don't have to be up in strange times
16:18:06 <juhp_> that might be good
16:18:27 <samkottler> 16:00 UTC on tuesdays works really nicely for me
16:19:14 <handsome_pirate> +1
16:19:18 <handsome_pirate> But, I can do otherwise
16:19:51 <hhorak> alternate times seem good and 16:00 works for me as one of the alternatives
16:20:00 <mmaslano> it could be better, but okay
16:20:23 <tjanez> I'm fine with weekly meetings, but I would prefer less meetings when there are less things to discuss
16:20:32 <mmaslano> let's do another whenisgood for odd and other for even week
16:20:34 <handsome_pirate> +1
16:20:35 <mmaslano> tjanez: I agree
16:20:42 <juhp_> sounds good
16:20:45 <handsome_pirate> I just see that right now we likely have plenty to do
16:20:55 <handsome_pirate> This can be revisited later
16:21:04 <handsome_pirate> So, one time is Tues, 1600
16:21:24 <handsome_pirate> So, how about another time?
16:21:27 <mmaslano> juhp_: which time and day do you prefer
16:21:33 <tjanez> Ok. Tuesday, 16:00 UTC works for me for the next couple of months
16:21:41 <mmaslano> it's 1:00 in the morning for you, so you can pick
16:21:44 <hhorak> I don't think we need another whenisgood, we just need to pick up the second time.
16:22:19 * abadger1999 has noticed that biweekly meetings tend to have lower overall attendance (maybe because people forget which week they're in?)
16:22:43 <juhp_> mmaslano, well roughly 12:00 from now +-4 hours would be fine
16:22:49 <mmaslano> abadger1999: that's for smart telephones are ;-)
16:22:53 <juhp_> but might still be easier to use whenisgood :)
16:23:11 <abadger1999> mmaslano: yeah.. but people book other meetings and events as well...
16:23:18 <mmaslano> juhp_: also bkabrda can't in this hour, so maybe he should specify his preference too
16:23:24 <juhp_> right
16:23:46 <tjanez> I agree with juhp_, use whenisgood and make precedence to bkabrda and juhp_
16:24:14 <mmaslano> abadger1999: do you want to setup another whenisgood 'cause you know how to do it properly on first time? :)
16:24:27 <abadger1999> Why don't we just use the same one?
16:24:46 <abadger1999> and select the best time that includes slavek?
16:24:49 <abadger1999> http://whenisgood.net/fedenvstk/results/q3gmp7
16:25:15 <pkovar> abadger1999 good point :-)
16:25:25 <tjanez> agreed, thinking out of the box :-)
16:25:48 <tjanez> maybe people should adjust/amend their general availability?
16:25:55 <abadger1999> Tuesday, wed, fri 13:00 or 14:00
16:26:00 <juhp_> so around 13:00 UTC might work
16:26:06 <juhp_> yeah
16:26:47 <hhorak> there seems to be no other option including bkabrda on Tue
16:27:31 <hhorak> and probably not better option in other days either
16:27:34 * handsome_pirate is +1 Tues
16:27:35 <samkottler> 13:00 UTC is 5am local time for abadger1999 and it's a little early for me
16:27:44 <handsome_pirate> Keep it somewhat simpler
16:27:45 * samkottler would like ot keep the meeting on tuesdays generally
16:27:59 <handsome_pirate> samkottler: We can both show up to the office a bit early :)
16:28:01 <abadger1999> samkottler: I kinda thought that the idea was that I wouldn't be able to make this alternate meeting?
16:28:11 <abadger1999> and from the looks of it drieden won't either.
16:28:25 <mmaslano> samkottler: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20131105&p1=19...
16:28:30 <mmaslano> samkottler: it's hard :)
16:29:04 <handsome_pirate> Anyway, how about ML for this one?
16:29:10 <handsome_pirate> We ought to move on
16:29:12 <drieden> abadger1999 13:00 is tricky for me, I'm getting my kids ready for school, but can be available sporadically at that time.
16:29:34 <samkottler> mmaslano: yeah it's difficult, we'll figure it out on the list :-)
16:29:38 <juhp_> it is 10pm here but that is okay
16:30:02 <mmaslano> #info odd and even weeks will have different time for meetings because of time zones
16:30:04 <abadger1999> drieden: I take it 14:00 Wed is even worse for you?
16:30:20 <abadger1999> (since you have the hours after that blocked off as well)
16:30:32 <drieden> abadger1999 Yes 14:00 wed is a regularly scheduled meeting
16:31:00 <mmaslano> #agreed 16:00 UTC for week starting 19th November
16:31:36 <mmaslano> let's stare into whenisgood and write on mailing list
16:31:49 <mmaslano> we have still lot to do today
16:31:52 <tjanez> mmaslano: +1
16:32:12 <drieden> mmaslano +1
16:32:37 <hhorak> +1
16:33:08 <handsome_pirate> +1
16:33:17 <juhp_> +1
16:33:47 <tjanez> So, should we move on to trac?
16:33:54 <handsome_pirate> Sure
16:33:54 <pkovar> +1
16:33:58 <mmaslano> #info everyone will look at whenisgood and will try to pick second date. The preferred time by juhp_ and bkabrda should be acceptable for most of the group
16:34:03 <handsome_pirate> nirik: You around?
16:34:06 <mmaslano> #topic trac
16:34:12 <nirik> handsome_pirate: yes, but in meeting.
16:34:32 <handsome_pirate> nirik: Roger
16:34:39 <mmaslano> I'm not sure if we need trac, but we probably need some wiki with information about us and our goals
16:34:45 <handsome_pirate> nirik: I pinged because we may be asking for a trac
16:34:53 <handsome_pirate> +1 to wiki
16:35:03 * handsome_pirate doesn't know about trac
16:35:04 <tjanez> Does anyone have an idea what would be in the trac?
16:35:23 <samkottler> meeting items probably primarily
16:35:26 <nirik> handsome_pirate: please file an infrastructure ticket with what you need.
16:35:30 <mmaslano> we could trac process of some issues, but that can be done differently
16:35:31 <abadger1999> I think trac is nice if we need ticketing but otherwise... not needed.
16:35:46 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
16:35:51 <samkottler> a lot of the work we have to do is with fesco and other groups so we can use their bug trackers
16:35:52 <juhp_> trac might be good for collecting todo's and such rfe's etc
16:35:58 <handsome_pirate> Yeah, we can likely make do with action items
16:36:12 <mmaslano> drieden: you might know about something better for tracking progress. But I'm not sure what do we need trac right now
16:36:36 <hhorak> +1 for wiki, but not sure if we need git/ticket system for anything..
16:36:47 <abadger1999> I'd say, let's get started using the wiki and just stay aware that when we start accumulating things that look like tickets, we then ask to have a trac instance.
16:36:51 <drieden> mmaslan Trac can be set up with git for storage and landing page, and for tracking issues, but I don't really use trac for tracking issues.
16:37:07 <tjanez> hhorak, abadger1999: +1
16:37:12 <juhp_> abadger1999, sounds reasonable
16:37:44 <drieden> mmaslano wiki sounds good for now. I should have said that I haven't had to use trac for tracking issues.
16:38:13 <abadger1999> <nod>
16:38:40 * handsome_pirate will set up wiki bit
16:38:41 <handsome_pirate> s
16:38:51 <pkovar> let's stick with the fedora wiki. i think that's what other groups are also using
16:39:01 <handsome_pirate> Aye
16:39:07 <handsome_pirate> I mean in Fedora's wiki
16:40:23 <mmaslano> seems like consensus to me
16:40:33 <mmaslano> who will create wiki?
16:40:42 * handsome_pirate will
16:41:28 <mmaslano> #info handsome_pirate will create wiki for our WG
16:42:01 <mmaslano> #topic Discussions around the WG governance charter
16:42:08 <handsome_pirate> I'll get everything done up, then ping links to the list for approval/editing
16:42:13 <mmaslano> handsome_pirate: great
16:42:23 <juhp_> cool
16:42:55 <drieden> handsome_pirate yee be a good fellar yee bee (pirate accent)
16:43:30 <handsome_pirate> heh
16:43:40 <handsome_pirate> arrr
16:43:49 <juhp_> deadline is next week?
16:44:04 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
16:45:14 <handsome_pirate> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Governance is Cloud's
16:45:20 * juhp_ hasn't seen any of the (draft) charters yet...
16:45:21 <handsome_pirate> I propose we do similar
16:45:24 <juhp_> aha
16:45:35 * handsome_pirate is a fan of simple and flexible
16:46:11 <abadger1999> yeah -- the only thing I'd change is how abstentions are counted in voting.
16:46:18 <juhp_> yeah probably a good idea to base the initial charter off other's work?
16:46:20 <mmaslano> abadger1999: do you what we should do about governance charter? I thought FESCo I picked voting members and that's it
16:46:45 <pkovar> so, can we just adopt that Making Decisions part on the cloud page?
16:46:46 <handsome_pirate> juhp_: That's what others are doing, is basing their charters off each other
16:46:50 <mmaslano> abadger1999: ah, true. Do you want to be able vote before or after meeting via email?
16:46:54 <abadger1999> mmaslano: fesco determined that the initial seeding of the group was at your (the liason's) discretion.
16:47:06 <abadger1999> but it's our job to decide how the group is governed in the future.
16:47:11 <handsome_pirate> Aye
16:47:24 <handsome_pirate> We would want to add a section on succession
16:47:27 <handsome_pirate> sp?
16:47:41 <handsome_pirate> ie, to figure out members to come after us
16:47:44 <abadger1999> we could say "in the future, there's one person who has absolute authority" or "anyone can vote and after one week the most votes wins".
16:47:51 <abadger1999> or anything in the middle :-)
16:48:07 * handsome_pirate is for nominations from the community
16:48:23 <handsome_pirate> ie, any intersted parties can be nominated or self nominate
16:48:41 <handsome_pirate> But, maybe have current voting members vote
16:48:42 * abadger1999 thinks the cloud governance is good looking.
16:49:01 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
16:49:35 <abadger1999> I guess the only doubt I have about adopting hte cloud model is that we might be a bit different in our goals.
16:49:46 <abadger1999> the cloud group is producing a product.
16:50:01 <abadger1999> My impression from mattdm is we're more a research and development group.
16:50:31 <handsome_pirate> ie, where all the fun stuff happens :)
16:50:40 <juhp_> true
16:50:41 <tjanez> Another question I have is what happens after FESCO elections if the current FESCO appointee is not re-elected?
16:50:52 <abadger1999> less about making decisions, more about working to enable wholly new things.
16:51:05 <handsome_pirate> tjanez: Good point, that
16:51:18 <abadger1999> tjanez: I can't speak for future fescos but I think current fesco would say:
16:51:28 <abadger1999> fesco just has to agree to the liason.
16:51:46 <abadger1999> so if the new fesco doesn't have a problem with the current liason, they'd continue in that capacity.
16:52:08 <abadger1999> only if the new fesco sid "We don't can't work with $person" would the liason need to change.
16:52:12 <abadger1999> *said
16:53:17 <tjanez> abadger1999: I agree, FESCO will not be causing problems :-)
16:53:40 <hhorak> abadger1999: sounds good to me
16:53:48 <handsome_pirate> +1
16:54:28 <pkovar> +1
16:54:34 <tjanez> I'm OK with serving as long as we are able to/willing, maybe it just sounds very autocratic to outsiders
16:54:45 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
16:55:04 <abadger1999> (of course, each WG can also say that they don't want to be represented by a certain liason as well).
16:55:24 <tjanez> But on the other hand, I really don't see ourselves as a ruling body
16:55:27 <mmaslano> I guess group can pick who will be voting members, no problem
16:55:35 <tjanez> but rather an enabler for people to work
16:55:40 <abadger1999> <nod> -- for some things I think a certain amount of autocracy is good... where precedent and knowledge of what came before is important.
16:55:41 <mmaslano> tjanez: yeah, I'd rather see us as working body :)
16:55:50 <abadger1999> not sure if that's a concern for this gorup or not.
16:56:07 <juhp_> right
16:56:38 <abadger1999> So maybe we should first ask, what is our role in Fedora?
16:56:41 <abadger1999> What do we do?
16:57:58 <tjanez> Well, I would say use only as much birocracy as we need for working and develop it later as we define our mission and goals more clearly
16:58:21 <handsome_pirate> You know, I suddenly find myself leaning to the way that QA does things: Whoever wants to do something does it
16:58:33 <mmaslano> tjanez: we should solve this question until next week, when is deadline
16:58:54 <drieden> I think the Governance document can be separated from the "charter or what we do document"
16:59:21 <abadger1999> drieden: <nod> -- but I think governance depends on the charter.
16:59:30 * samkottler unfortuatenly has to leave now
16:59:37 <samkottler> I'll read the transcript later on
16:59:49 <handsome_pirate> +1
17:00:03 <juhp_> does someone want to take a stab at a draft charter?
17:00:05 <tjanez> For governance, I'm fine with something simple (e.g. similar to Cloud WG governance)
17:00:23 <drieden> tjanez +1. Consistency across the groups would be helpful
17:00:27 <handsome_pirate> Okay, I'm +1 not having governance in charter
17:00:43 <tjanez> We'll just have to change the thing with trac (they use trac)
17:00:52 <handsome_pirate> So
17:00:56 <hhorak> +1 for simplicity
17:01:01 <handsome_pirate> What is it that we'll actually be doing?
17:01:10 * juhp_ should look at the workstation draft too...
17:01:23 <mmaslano> handsome_pirate: I summarized what all of you told me
17:01:44 <tjanez> I think only slavek replied to your email
17:01:46 <mmaslano> handsome_pirate: languages, programming environments, setup databases, ...
17:01:51 <abadger1999> How about this -- let's adopt something very similar to the cloud wg governance but revisit the govenerance doc after f21 is out?
17:02:01 <mmaslano> abadger1999: +1
17:02:08 <tjanez> +1
17:02:09 <handsome_pirate> +1
17:02:10 <drieden> +1
17:02:11 <abadger1999> when we know about what we're actually doing in practice.
17:02:29 <juhp_> sounds ok to me but good to review a draft together next week
17:02:31 <hhorak> +1, maybe we can only be more specific (or change later) what "few days" mean and so on..
17:03:06 <juhp_> (or by next week:)
17:03:17 <handsome_pirate> Okay, so we'll want to push things like python 3
17:03:20 <drieden> hhorak sounds good. It is a little vague right now
17:04:20 <abadger1999> k
17:04:26 <abadger1999> I'll put together a draft.
17:04:29 <juhp_> I will try to have a quick look at what other WGs are doing on their charters so far
17:04:55 <abadger1999> If next week's meeting is at 13:00 I won't be around to present it but I can send a link to the list.
17:05:00 <drieden> Is there a link to the other charters?
17:05:29 <mmaslano> #info abadger1999 will put together a charter draft
17:05:37 <abadger1999> err
17:05:40 <mmaslano> drieden: I guess they send links to devel maling list
17:05:41 <abadger1999> mmaslano: governance draft
17:05:46 <mmaslano> #undo
17:05:46 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x41454090>
17:05:57 <mmaslano> #info abadger1999 will put together a governance draft
17:06:05 <tjanez> Regarding other charters, we should probably have in mind, we are very much different from the three product WGs
17:06:15 <abadger1999> I think driedenwas making the separation that charter is more -- what are we going to do... which we don't know yet.
17:06:23 <juhp_> server one looks similar https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Governance_Charter
17:06:25 <abadger1999> <nod>
17:06:29 * hhorak don't think other WG have much sofar either (just a guess)
17:06:36 <juhp_> didn't read carefully yet though
17:07:12 <handsome_pirate> Yeah, looks like everyone is making their 'charter' a governance doc
17:07:19 <handsome_pirate> We may want to avoid this
17:07:21 <juhp_> (I believe the Workstation draft was posted to desktop - I didn't have time to look at it yet)
17:07:31 <handsome_pirate> Charter is more for purpose than governance
17:07:35 <hhorak> server's seem to be very similar to cloud's one
17:07:45 <drieden> Yes, I meant the "What we do" charters for the other groups. I'm okay with the Cloud Governance charter wiki about the governing structure.
17:08:13 <tjanez> drieden: Yes, I was also talking about the "what we do" charter
17:08:27 <pkovar> juhp_: the workstation one is here https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2013-November/008259.html
17:08:28 <handsome_pirate> So, the hard part is to expand "languages, programming environments, setup databases, ..." into a proper document
17:08:36 <juhp_> pkovar, thanks
17:10:08 <mmaslano> I was sort of hoping people will post their ideas on mailing list
17:10:29 <tjanez> I think a good starting point for "what do we do" is mmaslano's mailing post
17:10:30 <handsome_pirate> Well, how about this: I'll start a ML thread on this?
17:10:36 <tjanez> and slavek's answer
17:10:50 <mmaslano> I spoke with most of you and create some points
17:11:04 <mmaslano> for example documentation - there is not much to add
17:11:18 <mmaslano> pkovar has imho a good plan
17:11:39 <tjanez> We should somehow separate the "what we are doing currently" from "what this WG will enable so people can develop/package new stacks/environments
17:11:49 <juhp_> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2013-October/008245.html
17:12:21 <mmaslano> we might have a problem, that other WG believe we should do something else. I already heard we should do containers, but I refused
17:12:34 <mmaslano> I guess none of us is aware of details of containers
17:12:49 <juhp_> lightweight virt?
17:13:02 <mmaslano> probably all of them, maybe pick the best
17:13:08 <pkovar> juhp_: oh yeah, that's the actual charter :-)
17:13:10 <mmaslano> I guess Base group took it back
17:13:19 <abadger1999> Hmm... maybe we should be enabling people to do containers... but our role there would be supporting the people who know about it.
17:13:46 <mmaslano> maybe
17:14:13 <pknirsch> i'm fine with taking this to the Base WG discussion and see what they think about it.
17:14:16 <pkovar> or who want to learn about it?
17:14:17 <abadger1999> My feeling might be.. let's say containers is a new technology that only a few people are aware of. We'd help them document containers, see what they can do.
17:14:52 <abadger1999> create a proof of concept or two around them (which might be actual working software in fedora)
17:15:19 <abadger1999> and then if it was something that should really permeate all of fedora, we'd pass them along to the base design wg.
17:15:51 <abadger1999> who would see how containers could be applied throughout the OS.
17:15:56 <mmaslano> abadger1999: do you have someone in mind who will do it?
17:16:07 <tjanez> abadger1999: +1, but maybe not pass it to the base design WG, but to a "Fedora commons in ring 2"
17:16:12 <abadger1999> mmaslano: nope.
17:16:25 <handsome_pirate> hrm
17:16:36 <abadger1999> someone would have to come to us in that example.
17:16:38 <handsome_pirate> We all ought to look into it
17:16:47 <mmaslano> abadger1999: me neither which is reason why I didn't want it
17:17:18 <mmaslano> did we agreed on something yet?
17:17:58 <juhp_> perhaps it is something we could discuss later on the ml? I am not sure either if it is in our scope or not
17:18:12 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
17:18:12 <hhorak> we all probably should learn the basics about containers if we need to talk/vote about it in the future..
17:18:23 <handsome_pirate> Anyone here a decent writer?
17:18:29 <handsome_pirate> hhorak: +1
17:18:33 <abadger1999> I guess I see us s -- "wild ideas come here first, get incubated, and then when they're no longer wild and unknown ideas, they go onto a different part of fedora to be integrated more heavily"
17:18:35 <tjanez> I would prefer to discuss the general "what will we do" on the ML
17:18:51 <handsome_pirate> hence my comment above about all of us looking at it
17:19:00 <handsome_pirate> abadger1999: +1
17:19:17 <tjanez> Do we still have time until next week's meeting?
17:20:05 <mmaslano> I guess so
17:21:08 <tjanez> Maybe we should also advertise our ML and WG on the devel and point people there for a discussion on "what will we do"
17:21:19 <juhp_> yes
17:21:22 <tjanez> I think its critical to define what is in our scope and what not
17:21:29 * handsome_pirate just popped an email off to the M/L
17:21:37 <juhp_> agreed
17:21:38 <tjanez> So that other WG won't have wrong expectations
17:21:50 <tjanez> which will cause problems later...
17:22:11 <hhorak> sorry, I'd need to leave.. will read the log later.
17:22:14 <tjanez> handsome_pirate: thanks!
17:22:48 <abadger1999> tjanez: +1
17:23:14 <mmaslano> who will write it?
17:23:44 <handsome_pirate> Who's a good writer?
17:23:47 <abadger1999> I can write it -- but not until we decide what we want it to say :-)
17:24:05 <handsome_pirate> abadger1999: Hence the ml thread I just started
17:24:38 <abadger1999> handsome_pirate: Did you get moderated? it didn't show up i nthe archives.
17:25:41 <tjanez> handsome_pirate: I also can't see your email
17:26:13 <tjanez> It got moderated: Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list
17:26:44 <pkovar> handsome_pirate: but you seem to be subscribed jdulaney at fedoraproject.org
17:26:55 <handsome_pirate> I just resent it
17:27:09 <handsome_pirate> With right email address
17:27:35 <abadger1999> Cool.
17:28:01 <abadger1999> So yeah -- we can discuss this on the mailing list and I can start drafting next week.
17:28:03 <tjanez> I can write an email to devel and advertize this thread, if we agree to it?
17:28:10 <abadger1999> works for me.
17:28:39 <handsome_pirate> +1
17:28:50 <drieden> +1
17:29:04 <juhp_> great
17:29:06 <abadger1999> If you disagree with the direction handsome_pirate and I proposed, be sure to say that so that we get discussion about the alternative directions we could move in :-)
17:30:51 <tjanez> well, should we wrap up this meeting?
17:31:14 <mmaslano> do we have action item for this topic?
17:31:46 <handsome_pirate> mmaslano: Discussion on ml thread, abadger1999 to write up charter
17:32:15 <tjanez> handsome_pirate starts the discussion on the ML, tjanez will write an email to devel asking for contribution from non-members
17:32:26 <abadger1999> Note -- I can promise a governance doc for next week but I can't promise a Charter Document for next week.
17:32:28 <mmaslano> #info rest of the discussion will happen on mailing list. abadger1999 will write up the charter as soon as we will know what do we want to do
17:32:30 <abadger1999> Only the start of it.
17:32:37 <mmaslano> that's fine by me
17:32:41 <abadger1999> Cool.
17:32:54 <handsome_pirate> +1
17:33:34 <tjanez> +1
17:33:56 <juhp_> +1 good
17:34:18 <drieden> +1
17:34:20 <abadger1999> +1
17:34:23 * juhp_ is still a bit unclear about goverance vs charter but probably will become clearer as we discuss
17:34:35 <juhp_> erm governance
17:34:45 <mmaslano> probably
17:34:59 <mmaslano> #topic Open Floor
17:35:03 <mmaslano> anything else?
17:36:28 * handsome_pirate is good to go
17:36:41 <drieden> I don't have anything
17:36:53 <tjanez> nothing more from me
17:37:46 <mmaslano> let's go home
17:37:56 * abadger1999 will start work!
17:37:56 <abadger1999> ;-)
17:37:58 <mmaslano> #endmeeting
10 years, 5 months
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Fedora marketing meeting minutes, November 4, 2013
by Ruth Suehle
Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-04/fedora_marketi...
Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-04/fedora_marketi...
Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-11-04/fedora_marketi...
10 years, 5 months
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FAmSCo meeting minutes 2013-11-04
by Jiri Eischmann
Hi,
we had another regular FAmSCo meeting. 4 out of 7 members attended and
the meeting lasted for 57 minutes.
If you'd like to know more, read the minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2013-11-04/famsco.2013-...
Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2013-11-04/famsco.2013-...
Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2013-11-04/famsco.2013-...
The next meeting will be on Nov 11th.
Jiri
10 years, 5 months
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Fedora Chinese Meeting Minutes (2013-11-01)
by Alick Zhao
Hi all,
The IRC meeting minutes tonight are available at the link [1]. And it
looks good! Thanks everyone for attending the meeting. Thank zsun for
chairing the meeting.
In the meeting we talked about FUDCon bid progress, and F20 Release
Party, and L10N. Please review the proposed ideas and actions.
The next IRC meeting will be held on next Friday (2013-11-08). Please
come and join the discussion if you can!
[1]:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-11-01/fedora-zh.2013-11-0...
==================
#fedora-zh Meeting
==================
Meeting started by zsun at 13:05:06 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-11-01/fedora-zh.2013-11-0...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* 点名 (zsun, 13:05:23)
* FUDCON APAC 2014 申办筹备 (zsun, 13:11:38)
* IDEA: 不在北京的成员可以协助一些不需要在现场做的事情 (zsun, 13:33:39)
* F20 Release Party (zsun, 13:36:53)
* LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:APAC_Ambassadors_2013-10-26
(zsun, 13:41:09)
* LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_events (zsun,
13:41:22)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_organize_a_Fedora_event
(zsun, 13:42:56)
* endle建议与shlug合作举办rel party (zsun, 13:44:08)
* ACTION: RobberPhex与SHLUG沟通rel party事宜 (zsun, 13:50:50)
* 中文翻译 (zsun, 13:56:19)
* LINK:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans-zh_cn/2013-October/001658...
(zsun, 14:01:48)
Meeting ended at 14:10:51 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* RobberPhex与SHLUG沟通rel party事宜
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* RobberPhex
* RobberPhex与SHLUG沟通rel party事宜
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* zsun (83)
* RobberPhex (20)
* zodbot (14)
* tonghuix (12)
* endle (12)
* biergaizi (11)
* isyangxin (7)
* BadGirl (7)
* xlzyjfy (7)
* gcell (4)
* chenchacha (4)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
10 years, 5 months
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