Minutes from today's (12/18/2013) cloud WG meeting
by Sam Kottler
Thanks everyone who was able to make it to the meeting today! For those who weren't able to make it, here are few important links:
Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeti...
Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeti...
Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeti...
Log (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeti...
Here's a summary of the meeting (link to the HTML and text versions above):
==========================================
#fedora-meeting-1: cloud WG weekly meeting
==========================================
Meeting started by samkottler at 17:01:13 UTC. The full logs are
available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeti...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* rollcall (samkottler, 17:02:08)
* next steps for the PRD (samkottler, 17:05:26)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD for those who don't
have the link (samkottler, 17:06:19)
* AGREED: Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year
(tentatively, Wednesday Jan, 8) (number80, 17:27:42)
* ACTION: jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details
(jzb, 17:28:08)
* LINK:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Product_Requirements_Document
(samkottler, 17:31:43)
* open floor (samkottler, 17:40:05)
Meeting ended at 17:49:49 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* jzb
* jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* samkottler (55)
* jzb (36)
* number80 (30)
* sgallagh (11)
* mattdm (5)
* zodbot (5)
* geppetto (1)
* rbergeron (0)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
17:01:13 <samkottler> #startmeeting cloud WG weekly meeting
17:01:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 18 17:01:13 2013 UTC. The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:29 <number80> just in time :o)
17:01:56 <samkottler> #chair number80 geppetto rbergeron jzb
17:01:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto jzb number80 rbergeron samkottler
17:02:08 <samkottler> #topic rollcall
17:02:22 * samkottler waves
17:02:39 * jzb says howdy
17:02:42 * sgallagh lurks. Ping me directly if you want to discuss interaction with Server.
17:03:12 <samkottler> sgallagh: if you've got more stuff that you'd like us to solidify today we can talk about it during the open floor
17:03:31 * geppetto is here
17:03:45 <sgallagh> samkottler: Nothing in particular. I'm just idling in here so if questions come up, I can answer them.
17:03:57 <samkottler> sgallagh: okay perfect, thanks!
17:05:26 <samkottler> #topic next steps for the PRD
17:05:51 <samkottler> I think we should spend the majority of the meeting working on PRD structure
17:05:57 <number80> +1
17:06:19 <samkottler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD for those who don't have the link
17:07:38 <samkottler> so I think it makes sense to split out the bottom into two sections
17:07:43 <samkottler> which we talked a bit about last week
17:07:49 <samkottler> but it'd be good to finalize that
17:08:21 <samkottler> I was gonna move maintainability, support requirements, security, and release criteria to their own sections
17:08:23 <samkottler> #chair mattdm
17:08:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto jzb mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler
17:08:25 <mattdm> hi all sorry -- I am stuck in a (still ongoing) IRL meeting
17:08:52 <samkottler> mattdm: NP, we're just talking about the PRD
17:08:54 <mattdm> and people are asking questions and talking to me and stuff so I can't just ignore that :) please ping me if needed
17:09:09 <jzb> samkottler: +1 to move
17:11:11 <number80> +1 for moving stuff
17:12:42 <number80> btw, are we bypassing the quorum since today we're currently 3 (+ one stuck at a IRL meeting)
17:12:46 <number80> ?
17:12:58 <samkottler> number80: yeah, I don't think we have anything that really needs voting luckily
17:13:04 <number80> ok
17:14:41 <samkottler> alright so I split things out into "general" and "technical" requirements
17:14:55 <samkottler> I'll clean up that section in not-real-time
17:16:41 <samkottler> number80: jzb: one other thing I wanted to touch base on was how specific stuff like image building should be in the document
17:17:01 <samkottler> I kinda think it should say 'we provide tools and processes for rebuilds' without actually providing more details
17:17:07 <number80> +1
17:17:21 <number80> implementation details are not to be in the PRD
17:17:30 <jzb> samkottler: yeah, I think we should point to a page on the wiki for that.
17:17:41 <jzb> samkottler: but basically, that's going to be a changeable thing
17:17:45 <samkottler> agreed
17:17:57 <samkottler> it's just a matter of whether or not that page will exist before we submit the PRD
17:18:17 <number80> +1 for the url (even if it says at the moment, that this is a work in progress)
17:19:49 <jzb> samkottler: a stub should be OK, I think
17:19:56 <jzb> samkottler: though I'd add that to release criteria
17:20:29 <samkottler> those are the major things I've got around the PRD
17:20:35 <samkottler> there's a lot more work to be done
17:21:18 <jzb> samkottler: what's the for-real deadline again?
17:21:52 <samkottler> jzb: I believe it's jan 15th? sgallagh ^^
17:22:15 * sgallagh double-checks, but that sounds right
17:23:15 <sgallagh> samkottler: 2014-01-13
17:23:37 <samkottler> sgallagh: thanks
17:23:48 <number80> from december, 24 to january,2 i don't expect any work done on the PRD so we should finish it at the beginning of next week
17:23:50 <samkottler> jzb: I'm planning on working on it a bunch next week
17:24:06 <jzb> samkottler: ... over the holiday?
17:24:17 <samkottler> jzb: yeah, post-xmas I'll be working on stuff
17:24:51 <jzb> samkottler: Hmmm. I will see what I can chip in on, but I don't want to make any promises about working over the break
17:25:24 <samkottler> no pressure, of course
17:25:33 <jzb> samkottler: I suggest we maybe look at scheduling a PRD hackfest beginning of the year
17:25:34 <samkottler> I just haven't done enough on the PRD yet so I'm gonna work a day or so on it
17:25:38 <mattdm> +1 hackfest
17:25:41 <number80> i'll try advancing on personas and proof-reading stuff
17:25:45 <samkottler> +1 let's do it
17:25:53 <number80> +1 hackfest
17:25:58 <samkottler> jzb: wanna send an email to set the date?
17:26:21 <jzb> samkottler: yep. Tentatively, the Wednesday (Jan 8) sound good?
17:26:31 <samkottler> WFM
17:26:40 <jzb> (everybody? mattdm, number80?) ^^
17:26:42 <number80> #agreed Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year (tentatively, Wednesdat Jan, 8)
17:26:44 <samkottler> timezones will surely be a joy
17:26:53 <number80> +1 for Jan, 8 btw
17:26:55 <mattdm> wfm
17:27:02 <jzb> indeed
17:27:35 <number80> #undo
17:27:35 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x40e8290>
17:27:42 <number80> #agreed Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year (tentatively, Wednesday Jan, 8)
17:28:08 <jzb> #action jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details
17:28:44 <jzb> sgallagh: how goes the server wg PRD?
17:29:23 <sgallagh> jzb: I think we finally finished defining our users yesterday.
17:29:46 <sgallagh> What remains is approving our target use-cases and the criteria for a server role being promoted to "featured" status.
17:29:57 <sgallagh> So we're probably going to cut the delivery date close.
17:31:27 <number80> sgallagh: a link ?
17:31:43 <samkottler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Product_Requirements_Document
17:31:50 <number80> thank you
17:31:57 <jzb> sgallagh: we're going to do a hackfest for ours on (probably) the 8th
17:31:58 <sgallagh> number80: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Server/Product_Requirements_D...
17:32:12 <jzb> sgallagh: might make sense to join forces or do something similar at the same time?
17:32:21 <sgallagh> jzb: Probably a good idea.
17:32:24 <jzb> so if we have cross-wg questions we could address them
17:32:43 <jzb> sgallagh: I'll shoot a note to the server list too
17:32:58 <sgallagh> number80: Not a lot there yet. It's just a first pass.
17:33:17 <number80> yeah, but it's worth to take a peek :)
17:33:21 * sgallagh nods
17:35:31 <number80> anything else ?
17:36:08 <samkottler> that's all I've got
17:36:20 <number80> ok
17:36:44 <number80> maybe we could move to the open floor ?
17:36:50 <samkottler> what's the name of that open-souce video/note conferencing tool that fedora infra runs?
17:36:58 <samkottler> it'd be cool to get that working for the hackfest
17:38:06 <number80> If there's one, it's not listed there: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/
17:38:06 <jzb> samkottler: we have a video/note tool?
17:39:11 <samkottler> I forget what it's call, but we used it for the infrastructure hackathon
17:40:01 <samkottler> anyways...
17:40:05 <samkottler> #topic open floor
17:40:36 <number80> are there any WG members at the FOSDEM in Brussels ?
17:40:44 <jzb> number80: I'm going
17:40:47 * samkottler will be
17:41:01 <samkottler> mattdm: you going to fosdem?
17:41:02 <number80> maybe we should schedule an IRL meeting (i'm going too)
17:41:12 <jzb> oh, that reminds me
17:41:15 <jzb> so, the week before that
17:41:24 <jzb> there's Monkigras in London
17:41:37 <jzb> and the day before that, we're pulling together a "Cloud Summit"
17:41:44 <mattdm> samkottler yes I am
17:41:54 <number80> samkottler: nirik is suggesting that you're talking about http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Gobby
17:42:05 <number80> \o/
17:42:08 <samkottler> number80: yep, that's it
17:42:38 <number80> ok, i was confused by the video part but +1 for using it
17:42:41 * samkottler is going to be in paris/london/germany from tomorrow until Jan 30
17:42:43 <samkottler> and then on to fosdem
17:43:42 <jzb> samkottler: you should grab a ticket for Monkigras and plan on being at the cloud summit
17:44:29 <number80> ok, since we might have half of the WG (Robyn might come too), i really insist on having a IRL meeting :)
17:44:32 <samkottler> oh it's in shoreditch, that's easy
17:45:02 <number80> maybe it's worth inviting other WG for an inter-WG session too
17:45:10 <jzb> samkottler: http://monkigras.com/buy/
17:45:35 <samkottler> jzb: done
17:45:50 <jzb> samkottler: the beer is excellent
17:45:52 <samkottler> anyone got other stuff?
17:46:07 <jzb> samkottler: just a suggestion
17:46:20 <samkottler> number80: yeah that sounds good - there'll be lots of folks there so I imagine we'll have pretty good coverage from each WG
17:46:33 <jzb> samkottler: with F20 out, it'd be great to see some Howtos using cloud images.
17:46:53 <jzb> samkottler: I do have a project or two I'm going to try over the holiday that I hope to get a good writeup from.
17:47:13 <jzb> and I can probably get any features/howtos published on Linux.com if anyone wants to write one.
17:47:15 <jzb> (other than me)
17:47:22 <samkottler> jzb: what do you think about a blog post or two about docker w/ f20
17:47:32 <jzb> samkottler: that'd be excellent
17:47:49 <samkottler> cool, I'll try to hammer that out on my flight tomorrow
17:48:07 <jzb> woot
17:48:17 <jzb> that's all I've got, except to wish everyone a happy holiday
17:48:59 * samkottler hopes everyone gets some rest
17:49:14 <samkottler> oh also: no meeting next week
17:49:49 <samkottler> #endmeeting
10 years, 4 months
Meeting minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2013-12-17)
by Marcela Mašláňová
============================================
#fedora-meeting: env and stacks (2013-12-17)
============================================
Meeting started by mmaslano at 16:01:35 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-17/env_and_stacks...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* init process (mmaslano, 16:06:46)
* Big Data specific case: right now, if you want to use Scala for real
work on Fedora, your option is basically to install a bunch of
binaries maintained by upstreams. It would be great if we were able
to better support "new" language ecosystems wholly in Fedora.
(mmaslano, 16:31:08)
* ACTION: tjanez will sum up Big Data SIG needs (mmaslano, 16:58:29)
* ACTION: everyone will look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mmaslano/Draft:Env_and_Stack_PRD
and think/work on tasks. (mmaslano, 17:05:11)
Meeting ended at 17:10:52 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* tjanez will sum up Big Data SIG needs
* everyone will look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mmaslano/Draft:Env_and_Stack_PRD
and think/work on tasks.
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* tjanez
* tjanez will sum up Big Data SIG needs
* **UNASSIGNED**
* everyone will look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mmaslano/Draft:Env_and_Stack_PRD
and think/work on tasks.
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* mmaslano (70)
* tjanez (51)
* mattf (30)
* hhorak (18)
* willb (14)
* sochotni (10)
* zodbot (7)
* Subfusc (5)
* pingou (3)
* pkovar1 (1)
* drieden (1)
* samkottler (1)
* bkabrda (0)
* abadger1999 (0)
* juhp (0)
* handsome_pirate (0)
* pkovar (0)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
16:01:35 <mmaslano> #startmeeting env and stacks (2013-12-17)
16:01:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Dec 17 16:01:35 2013 UTC. The
chair is mmaslano. Information about MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea
#link #topic.
16:01:45 <mmaslano> #meetingname env and stacks
16:01:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'env_and_stacks'
16:01:59 <mmaslano> #chair abadger1999 pkovar tjanez samkottler bkabrda
handsome_pirate hhorak juhp
16:01:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 bkabrda handsome_pirate
hhorak juhp mmaslano pkovar samkottler tjanez
16:02:30 * samkottler waves & will have to leave in about 15 minutes for
a doctor's appointment
16:03:01 * pkovar1 is here
16:03:05 <mmaslano> who else is here
16:03:30 <mattf> o/
16:04:05 <willb> I'm here
16:05:28 * tjanez is being late
16:06:17 <drieden> I'm here too
16:06:46 <mmaslano> #topic init process
16:06:55 <mmaslano> great, let's start
16:07:04 <mmaslano> we don't have much time for something like PRD
16:07:17 <hhorak> Hi, sorry for being late..
16:07:38 <mmaslano> so I created something inspired by Cloud PRD
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mmaslano/Draft:Env_and_Stack_PRD
16:07:53 * pingou around (and late, sorry)
16:08:26 <mmaslano> the real tasks are still little fuzzy, but I plan to
work on them more if you agree with it
16:08:53 <mmaslano> mattf: great you are here. You can tell us what you need
16:09:07 <mmaslano> mattf is from Big data SIG
16:09:17 <mattf> willb, would you start?
16:10:25 <mattf> mmaslano, willb has been feeling most of the pain
dealing w/ non-primary (c/c++,python,perl) language stacks in fedora
16:10:37 <willb> I think a lot of our headaches in Big Data relate to
language packaging ecosystems vs Fedora
16:10:46 <willb> in particular, I have been working on Scala lately
16:12:29 <willb> in short, the main issues are widespread Ivy for
dependency management (mizdebsk has been working on this) and very
brittle versioning (there is the expectation that you'll be able to have
particular versions of the runtime, compiler, and libraries to run any
nontrivial application)
16:14:22 <willb> like a lot of language stacks (e.g. rubygems, maven,
eggs), there is the assumption that any developer would just be using
the language stack instead of downstream dependency management, so I've
had to work around a lot of those sorts of issues
16:15:15 <mattf> all those places where we have to work around things
the language community does are hurdles to eventually automating /
reducing maintenance package work
16:16:28 <mmaslano> we were already speaking about automation of
packaging (not ready) and hosting such packages in separated repositories
16:16:29 <mattf> we also ran into this around node.js, which has its
package/dep management tool available in fedora, but very little of the
language ecosystem / base libraries available
16:17:04 <mmaslano> what would be good solution for you?
16:17:18 <mmaslano> SCL, or latest versions from upstream?
16:17:22 <mattf> for us the application is where we want to focus our
time, but we find ourselves in the toolchain management and not getting
to the application
16:18:07 <tjanez> willb, mattf, I'm glad to hear your perspective w.r.t.
Stacks. Problems like you describe are very aligned with the scope of our WG
16:18:30 <mattf> the one dep i've been harping on lately is jetty. the
latest from upstream doesn't support the java version that our app
upstream wants to use. so having the latest in fedora is a problem.
16:18:59 <willb> jetty seems to touch a staggering number of projects in
our SIG, too
16:19:54 <mattf> mmaslano, something that would have helped (and
probably will in the future) is a way to provide language ecosystems in
fedora in a way that aligns w/ how the language itself is used
16:20:27 <mattf> all the modern languages have their own dep & ver
management tooling
16:20:37 <mattf> and most of it doesn't align well w/ fedora
16:21:34 <mattf> mmaslano, as for SCL, they could very likely help.
however, they represent an add-on to fedora
16:22:04 <mattf> almost like rpm fusion, or all the extra repos from
early fedora version
16:22:09 <sochotni> so what was that about jetty?
16:22:15 <willb> in the scala case, Fedora would allow us to provide
scala 2.9 and 2.10 packages in the same release, but to really work with
scala, we'd need both of those resolvable via Ivy, and not just
"scalac29" and "scalac210" binaries
16:22:30 <mmaslano> mattf: yes, on last fesco meeting was decided, that
additional repositories are acceptable, but content has to be reviewed
anyway
16:23:53 <mattf> sochotni, rsquared is the best person to talk about the
jetty situation. the exec summary is the version of jetty in fedora does
not work w/ java 6 and the hadoop upstream isn't ready to abandon java
6. so we end up maintaining a patch to hadoop for jetty 9 that will live
purely in fedora for quite a while to come
16:25:02 <mattf> sochotni, i believe there was some chatter about compat
packages for jetty libs too. that might be a workaround for f21/22 or
so, but ultimately there's a mismatch in expectations between fedora and
languages like java / scala / js that should be resolved
16:25:26 <mattf> (i should note, there's been a lot of good work on
figuring it out for java)
16:25:29 <sochotni> mattf: we don't jave JDK 6 in Fedora 18+
16:26:08 <mattf> sochotni, i believe the compat lib discussion hinged on
fedora policy and the compat library working w/ java 7
16:26:26 <sochotni> mattf: compat lib of what package?
16:26:27 <mattf> of course that workaround might stop working if the
only jetty code doesn't work w/ say java 8 or java 9
16:26:58 <mattf> sochotni, we should chat w/ rsquared on the specifics
16:27:03 <tjanez> So, the question is, is WG willing to work towards
integrating upstream language packaging systems
16:27:31 <tjanez> This could complement the existing RPM-based packaging
16:28:17 <mmaslano> tjanez: good point
16:28:30 <tjanez> It would certainly benefit the needs of the Big Data SIG
16:28:43 <sochotni> this is probably too specific task
16:28:44 <tjanez> The Big Data SIG use case could also be put in the PRD
16:28:55 <sochotni> might be a good test case but that's probably it
16:29:03 <mattf> i'd argue that steps in that direction will benefit the
needs of groups that want to bring applications written in "new"
languages to fedora
16:29:52 <mattf> (where "new" == actually really old languages)
16:29:55 <tjanez> mmaslano, do you feel upstream packaging is in our
scope or not?
16:30:13 <sochotni> tjanez: that's not something you will solve in a WG
16:30:14 <mmaslano> tjanez: I thought we agreed it could be done
automatically
16:30:22 <sochotni> you need someone who will *actually* work on the code
16:30:24 <mmaslano> tjanez: at least for some languages
16:30:41 <willb> again with my specific case: right now, if you want to
use Scala for real work on Fedora, your option is basically to install a
bunch of binaries maintained by upstreams. It would be great if we were
able to better support "new" language ecosystems wholly in Fedora.
16:30:43 <sochotni> all you can agree is "yes we want to do that"
16:31:08 <mmaslano> #info Big Data specific case: right now, if you want
to use Scala for real work on Fedora, your option is basically to
install a bunch of binaries maintained by upstreams. It would be great
if we were able to better support "new" language ecosystems wholly in
Fedora.
16:31:26 <mattf> nice
16:31:31 <tjanez> sochotni: well, I hope our WG will start working on
things we put in the PRD
16:31:31 <tjanez> and by working I mean coding
16:31:51 <mmaslano> still someone has to write automation for "new"
language and maintain it
16:32:07 <mmaslano> also I don't think packages without review can get
into Fedora
16:32:12 <mmaslano> legal issues..
16:32:47 <hhorak> mmaslano: reviews could be done the first time and
every-time something big changes in the package, but simple rebase could
be done outomatically
16:33:07 <tjanez> sochotni: First I would like to see if we at least
agree that complementing RPM packaging with upstream packaging is a
viable way for the future
16:33:13 <mattf> that's an interesting point. there's always going to be
a human component to packaging. however, we could probably write down
that small list and try to automate the rest.
16:33:25 <mmaslano> tjanez: I agree
16:33:44 <tjanez> mmaslano: well, we would start with one language
16:33:52 <hhorak> so the packaging tool should be able to say "this
rebase is suspiciously serious, we need a manual review"
16:34:13 <tjanez> mmaslano: but the common thing with all languages
would be the concept of co-existance with RPM packages
16:34:28 <mmaslano> now I'm confused
16:34:39 <mmaslano> mattf: do you want to package upstream into rpm or not?
16:34:49 <sochotni> what I *could* imagine is some wrapper around
pip/rubygems or alternative packaging systems
16:35:11 <hhorak> mmaslano: I think the tool should produce rpms in the end
16:35:18 <tjanez> mmaslano: +1 good question
16:35:25 <sochotni> but policy of updates...my head starts to hurt just
thinking about it
16:35:37 <mattf> mmaslano, i want to package upstream into something
that fedora will happily include directly in its ecosystem
16:35:59 <mmaslano> mattf: I'd like to see something like that too
16:36:20 <mattf> in other words, the form (rpm, deb, npm, other) isn't
as important to me
16:36:41 <hhorak> sochotni: even now many people do big updates that
introduce new issues according to guidelines and only if someone notices
it it gets resolved..
16:36:48 <mmaslano> #proposal add automatic packaging of upstreams into
WG goals
16:36:59 <mattf> hhorak, too true!
16:37:47 <tjanez> mattf, well from the consumer (aka big data user)
point-of-view, the form is not important, from the distribution
point-of-view it is
16:38:14 <mattf> hhorak, there's little infrastructure that i see for CI
around fedora. you're a lib that has 12+ users, well when you update you
should maybe rebuild your deps to find breaks.
16:38:24 <mattf> hhorak, fedora has a very reactive model atm
16:38:26 <hhorak> what I can't imagine is including a really new package
without a review.. I mean at least initial review would have to be done
manually, but with something like fedora-review it shouldn't be too hard
16:38:36 <mattf> tjanez, that's fair
16:40:03 <mmaslano> #proposal add automatic packaging of upstreams into
WG goals. Initial review of packages will be neded.
16:40:03 <tjanez> mmaslano, I'm ok with that, I would just like to
clarify a bit more what the final form of that packaging would look like
16:40:03 <tjanez> would it be Fedora-approved subset of upstream
packaging repositories
16:40:03 <tjanez> and the users would use tools like pip
16:40:04 <tjanez> or would it be an rpm repository automatically
generated with *2rpm tools
16:40:05 <mmaslano> any votes?
16:40:07 <tjanez> and the users use dnf (distro tools)
16:40:18 <hhorak> mmaslano: +1
16:40:29 <mmaslano> tjanez: I would stay with rpm, we alredy know how it
works
16:40:33 <mmaslano> (most of the time)
16:41:01 <willb> tjanez, to some extent, the existing processes are
important for consumers as well as for the distro. For any reasonable
list of advantages we can list for using Fedora, most of them come from
being well-integrated with the Fedora ecosystem and from having packages
that follow Fedora processes.
16:42:25 <hhorak> tjanez: I don't think we should provide any bits
outside rpms, it would require to solve all the issues that rpm solves
today again and again for every language stack
16:42:36 <willb> hhorak, +1
16:43:07 <tjanez> Ok, you convinced me
16:43:22 <tjanez> I just wanted to put it out so we discuss it
16:43:23 <hhorak> tjanez: what I can imagine is creating something that
would work like pip, but would actually work with rpms in the
background.. (not familiar to pip, so maybe it is not easy)
16:44:01 <willb> IMHO RPM/rubygems integration and xmvn are good
examples of language-specific packaging systems working well in Fedora
16:44:15 <mmaslano> hhorak: why? we have dnf/yum already. it's not
obvious to me, why create another tool for installation
16:44:18 <tjanez> hhorak: +1
16:44:49 <tjanez> mmaslano: it would be just a conveniece wrapper for
dnf/yum
16:45:10 * pingou doesn't see the point of wrapping wrapper
16:45:18 <mmaslano> tjanez: I wouldn't say just in case of dnf
16:46:37 <mmaslano> it seems to me Fedora users need some way how
automatically generate packages from upstream. Implementation details
can be solved later
16:47:02 <tjanez> well, the use case I can see is to attract developers
with different backgrounds
16:47:03 <tjanez> they maybe very familiar with pip/rubygems/...
16:47:19 <tjanez> ok, fair enough
16:48:33 <mmaslano> tjanez: yeah, but which tool would you pick?
pip/rubygems? you would probably have to patch all these tools
16:49:12 <tjanez> mmaslano, I would change your proposal to something
like: automatic packaging of upstream language repositories into
rpm-based repositories. Initial review of distributed packages would
still be needed
16:49:17 <hhorak> mmaslano: I understand that as users just don't want
to use dnf, because the style of work is way different from their
language-specific tools.. that's why they would like to use what they
use in other distributions (language specific ways, pip for example)..
but command name doesn't matter, it's more about style of work, so if
dnf can be as easy to use as these language-specific tools, then we can
stay with pure dnf.. Maybe I didn't ca
16:50:14 <mmaslano> hhorak: we are missing end of sentence, not all irc
clients can display so long messages ;-)
16:50:18 <mmaslano> tjanez: ok +1
16:50:24 <tjanez> mmaslano: yes, you would have to patch all of them. Or
rather, replace them with commands that have the same CLI
16:51:02 <tjanez> mmaslano: but yea, this is an implementation detail
that can be added or not later
16:51:08 <mmaslano> tjanez: at this moment it seems to me as far away
future, because we don't even have the automatic packaging :)
16:51:10 <hhorak> mmaslano: sorry ;) my point was to try to understand
why people don't like dnf/rpm/yum and prefer language specific tools
16:51:32 <Subfusc> the advantage of distribution tools for language
specific purposes is not that they can install $random_language_pack but
that they work in isolated environments (like with python-virtualenv)
16:51:50 <Subfusc> atleast that is how i see it
16:52:00 <pingou> mmaslano: we do have a number of *spec tools :)
16:52:01 <mmaslano> Subfusc: I guess in near future everything will be
in container. So that's solved
16:52:40 <tjanez> #proposal Add to tasks/goals of our WG: Automatic
packaging of upstream language repositories into rpm-based repositories.
Initial review of distributed packages would still be needed
16:53:46 <tjanez> My proposal would actually just clarify the "The
automatic packaging" task in mmaslano's PRD draft
16:53:49 <mmaslano> tjanez: still +1
16:54:46 <hhorak> tjanez: +1
16:55:37 <tjanez> It would be great if we also add a short summary of
what mattf and willb said earlier
16:55:39 <hhorak> Subfusc: thanks for that point. After quick reading it
seems like virtualenv is kind of a python version of software
collections, or do I understood it wrong?
16:56:17 <tjanez> Maybe as a "problem case" the WG is solving with that
particular task
16:56:19 <mmaslano> tjanez: do you want to sum it up?
16:56:40 <tjanez> Yes, I can and then put it in the wiki
16:57:11 <willb> tjanez, if you want some more detail, I wrote up some
of the Scala-specific issues in August
(http://chapeau.freevariable.com/2013/08/making-fedora-a-better-place-for-...)
and have been posting updates to the wiki here:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/bigdata/packaging/Scala
16:57:23 <tjanez> Maybe better if I do it after the meeting
16:57:42 <tjanez> willb, thanks, I will look at it
16:57:49 <willb> thanks
16:58:29 <mmaslano> #action tjanez will sum up Big Data SIG needs
16:58:40 <Subfusc> hhorak: I'm not that familiar with software
collections, but it works in complete isolation with every virtualenv
having its own libraries and it lives on $HOME so that non-admins can
administer it. Software collections does not seem to completely envelop
this concept
16:59:20 <Subfusc> the install in home folder is the primary feature
that makes virtualenv easy to use for developers
16:59:33 <tjanez> mmaslano: should "problem cases" be a new section or
just a sub-bullet under automated packaging task
16:59:41 * mmaslano will need to leave in few minutes
16:59:56 <mmaslano> tjanez: the whole task section is open for editing
17:00:04 <hhorak> Subfusc: right, user-specific installation is missing..
17:00:06 <mmaslano> I guess the rest is okay
17:00:22 <mmaslano> tjanez: I copied topic which were discussed in last
few weeks
17:00:36 <tjanez> Ok, are there any takers for writing up other tasks in
the PRD?
17:00:59 <hhorak> if the task list gets longer in the future, tasks
could be separated into two groups as discussed two weaks back, to
primary and secondary (less priority) tasks
17:01:18 <Subfusc> hhorak: its also easy to install and edit libraries
without affecting anything else (which a system wide installation could
not emulate)
17:01:20 <tjanez> We have to speed things up a bit
17:01:38 <tjanez> Jan 14th is coming very quickly
17:01:40 <mmaslano> tjanez: I'll try to specify some. But it should be
short definition up to 6 sentences
17:01:55 <mmaslano> tjanez: yeah, that's the reason why I've started
with prd without discussion
17:01:58 <tjanez> When will we have our next meeting?
17:02:06 <hhorak> tjanez: you mean what we discussed so far or some new
tasks?
17:02:24 <tjanez> hhorak: the things from our discussions
17:02:30 <mmaslano> tjanez: imho January 7
17:02:54 <mmaslano> not much time, let's add as many tasks as possible now
17:03:01 <mmaslano> and we can review it by email
17:03:04 <tjanez> I think we have to look through the IRC logs and
extract the things already said
17:03:41 <mmaslano> I tried to do it on my blog, but only from last 3
meetings
17:04:11 <tjanez> Ok, I'll look at your blog post
17:04:43 <mmaslano> for the record http://mmaslano.livejournal.com/
17:04:51 <tjanez> I'll certainly help, since I'll have more free time
around the holidays
17:05:11 <mmaslano> #action everyone will look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mmaslano/Draft:Env_and_Stack_PRD and
think/work on tasks.
17:05:32 <mmaslano> #info deadline for PRD is January 17th
17:05:44 <hhorak> mmaslano: ^date -d '2014-01-07' +"%V" says 02 so it
should be at 13:00UTC
17:05:45 <mmaslano> or 14th?
17:05:47 <tjanez> I hope others will join to create a better PrD
17:06:02 <mmaslano> tjanez: hopefully
17:07:02 <tjanez> mmaslano: well it's actually Jan 13 (see:
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1196)
17:07:10 <mmaslano> #undo
17:07:10 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object
at 0x11d6e7d0>
17:07:16 <mmaslano> #info deadline for PRD is January 14th
17:07:43 <mmaslano> #info next meeting will be on 13:00UTC January 7th
17:07:50 <mmaslano> tjanez: thanks
17:08:01 <mmaslano> if you don't have any other topics, I would like to
close the meeting
17:08:09 <mattf> mmaslano, thanks for having us
17:08:24 <tjanez> mmaslano, you still put in the wrong date?
17:08:44 <tjanez> or has it been changed from Jan 13 to Jan 14?
17:09:15 <willb> thanks all
17:09:42 <mmaslano> aaa
17:09:49 <mmaslano> #undo
17:09:49 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object
at 0xf892910>
17:09:55 <hhorak> thank you all and enjoy Chrismas!
17:10:02 <mmaslano> #undo
17:10:02 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object
at 0xf892dd0>
17:10:10 <mmaslano> #info deadline for PRD is January 13th
17:10:17 <mmaslano> #info next meeting will be on 13:00UTC January 7th
17:10:20 <tjanez> mmaslano: sorry for the trouble
17:10:35 <mmaslano> I hope meeting log will be nice :)
17:10:42 <mmaslano> let's go home
17:10:48 <mattf> ciao
17:10:49 <tjanez> Thank you for a good meeting
17:10:52 <mmaslano> #endmeeting
10 years, 4 months
Fedora Kernel Meeting Minutes for 2013-12-13
by Josh Boyer
==============================
#fedora-meeting: Fedora Kernel
==============================
Meeting started by jwb at 19:01:13 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-13/fedora_kernel....
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* init (jwb, 19:01:37)
* release overview (jwb, 19:03:29)
* F18-F20 all on 3.11.10(ish) Rawhide on 3.13-rc3(ish) (jwb,
19:07:24)
* 3.12 rebase (jwb, 19:08:10)
* F18 will not get a 3.12 rebase. critical security fixes only until
EOL (jwb, 19:16:12)
* F19-F20 will get 3.12 rebase in updates-testing very soon (jwb,
19:16:27)
* rawhide-nodebug will go back to tracking rawhide (jwb, 19:17:36)
* ACTION: jforbes to give 1 week warning for nodebug when 3.12 hits
updates-testing (jwb, 19:17:53)
* Removal of kernel-doc (jwb, 19:19:19)
* LINK:
http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//packages/kernel/3.13.0/0.rc3.git4.1.fc...
(jwb, 19:21:37)
* kernel-doc subpackage brings in asciidoc and xmlto, which bloat the
BuildRequires for the kernel significantly (jwb, 19:24:34)
* ACTION: jwb to drop kernel-doc subpackage (jwb, 19:24:44)
* Open Floor (jwb, 19:27:22)
* Trinity (jwb, 19:28:41)
* MMAP rework in trinity is surfacing a number of new bugs. Hopefully
this helps clear up some weird MM bugs we've seen in the past (jwb,
19:31:53)
* probably upstream trinity release next week (jwb, 19:37:15)
* Open Floor (jwb, 19:37:56)
Meeting ended at 19:46:07 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* jforbes to give 1 week warning for nodebug when 3.12 hits
updates-testing
* jwb to drop kernel-doc subpackage
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* jforbes
* jforbes to give 1 week warning for nodebug when 3.12 hits
updates-testing
* jwb
* jwb to drop kernel-doc subpackage
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* jwb (95)
* davej (30)
* jforbes (28)
* nirik (19)
* zodbot (3)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
10 years, 4 months
Fedora Chinese Meeting Minutes (2013-12-13)
by Alick Zhao
Hi all,
The IRC meeting minutes tonight are available at the link [1]. Thanks
everyone for attending the meeting.
In the meeting we talked about FUDCon bid progress, F20 Release Party,
L10N, Bugs, and others. Please review the proposed ideas and actions.
The next IRC meeting will be held on next Friday (2013-12-20). Please
come and join the discussion if you can!
[1]
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-12-13/fedora-zh.2013-12-1...
==================
#fedora-zh Meeting
==================
Meeting started by alick at 13:00:15 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-12-13/fedora-zh.2013-12-1...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* 报到 (alick, 13:00:19)
* FUDCON APAC 2014 申办 (alick, 13:11:18)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014
(alick, 13:11:27)
* 申办维基页面现有问题： (alick, 13:16:08)
* - 会议室价格信息需要补充 (alick, 13:16:42)
* - 场地地图交通信息需要补充 (alick, 13:16:57)
* - 可选宾馆住宿信息需要更新 (alick, 13:17:26)
* - 国外的大致机票费用需要更新 (alick, 13:18:32)
* ACTION: ZhenboLi 添加欧洲的机票信息 (endle, 13:26:17)
* ACTION: zsun添加美国的机票信息 (zsun, 13:26:52)
* ACTION: alick query libin and Kraks about venue room price (alick,
13:26:53)
* ACTION: dongfengweixiao update hotel info (alick, 13:27:18)
* ACTION: alick fix maps route info for venues (alick, 13:27:36)
* ACTION: kaio update cost from Asia and Oceania (alick, 13:31:46)
* F20 Release Party (alick, 13:33:41)
* Fedora 20 的发布日期确定为 2013-12-17 (alick, 13:34:00)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F20_Shanghai
(alick, 13:35:25)
* 宣传时除了覆盖传统的邮件列表、Linux 资讯站等，还应重视社交网络等
(alick, 13:37:24)
* ACTION: RobberPhex begin to publicize relparty shanghai (alick,
13:38:23)
* ACTION: alick RobberPhex attend tomorrow's apac meeting (alick,
13:39:14)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F20_Beijing
(alick, 13:39:50)
* 中文翻译 (alick, 13:46:39)
* LINK:
https://fedora.transifex.com/projects/p/fedora/language/zh_CN/?project=2060
(alick, 13:46:54)
* LINK:
https://fedora.transifex.com/projects/p/fedora/language/zh_CN/?project=20
(alick, 13:47:19)
* LINK: http://fedorapeople.org/groups/docs/release-notes/zh-CN/
(alick, 13:47:52)
* 请大家在发布前夕多多审阅已有翻译，发现错讹尽快修改 (alick, 13:52:05)
* Bug 评选 (alick, 13:53:29)
* LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1000893 (alick,
13:54:35)
* LINK: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=290706 (alick,
13:56:15)
* LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=909536 (alick,
14:02:47)
* 请 Fedora 18/19/20 用户帮忙测试 RHBZ 909536 中的更新 (alick, 14:05:54)
* LINK: http://pan.baidu.com/s/1GKoUJ#dir/path=%2Fcl%2Frpms
分享一下我打的包，可能不精致，但是能用，只有i686的，提供了src.rpm
(gcell, 14:11:08)
* LINK: http://code.google.com/p/funplayer/ (endle, 14:12:01)
Meeting ended at 14:18:51 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* ZhenboLi 添加欧洲的机票信息
* zsun添加美国的机票信息
* alick query libin and Kraks about venue room price
* dongfengweixiao update hotel info
* alick fix maps route info for venues
* kaio update cost from Asia and Oceania
* RobberPhex begin to publicize relparty shanghai
* alick RobberPhex attend tomorrow's apac meeting
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* alick
* alick query libin and Kraks about venue room price
* alick fix maps route info for venues
* alick RobberPhex attend tomorrow's apac meeting
* zsun
* zsun添加美国的机票信息
* **UNASSIGNED**
* ZhenboLi 添加欧洲的机票信息
* dongfengweixiao update hotel info
* kaio update cost from Asia and Oceania
* RobberPhex begin to publicize relparty shanghai
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* alick (123)
* biergaizi (42)
* zsun (41)
* endle (22)
* zodbot (14)
* BadGirl (13)
* gcell (10)
* isyangxin (6)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
10 years, 4 months
Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2013-12-12)
by Kevin Fenzi
============================================
#fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2013-12-12)
============================================
Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:02 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-12-12/infrastructure...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* welcome y'all (nirik, 19:00:03)
* New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks (nirik, 19:02:46)
* Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:04:21)
* LINK: https://apps.stg.fedoraproject.org/notifications (threebean,
19:05:13)
* fmn in staging now (nirik, 19:05:27)
* bunch of nuancier work (nirik, 19:05:39)
* some pkgdb2 bugfixing over the last week based on feedback from
devel list (nirik, 19:07:17)
* cnucnuweb fedmsg integration work coming soon. (nirik, 19:08:19)
* LINK: https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-news/pull/4 (pingou,
19:12:47)
* Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:14:22)
* likely to get in some new hw in january... more blades for the blade
server and a few new replacement virthosts to replace old ones.
(nirik, 19:16:42)
* likely to do a on-site phx2 visit in jan/feb (nirik, 19:16:53)
* builders will be redone with f20 after freeze (nirik, 19:18:27)
* Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:25:18)
* LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/
(nirik, 19:25:18)
* AGREED: : we will not meet on 2013-12-26 or 2014-01-02. Meetings
will resume on 2014-01-09 (nirik, 19:30:46)
* LINK: https://isitchristmas.com/ but still says no :( (pingou,
19:33:45)
* Open Floor (nirik, 19:35:11)
* LINK: https://github.com/bochecha/koji-mash (lmacken, 19:35:40)
Meeting ended at 19:46:01 UTC.
Action Items
------------
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* nirik (104)
* pingou (30)
* smooge (19)
* threebean (17)
* janeznemanic (8)
* lmacken (6)
* zodbot (5)
* tflink (4)
* oddshocks (3)
* bitlord (2)
* ianweller (1)
* masta (1)
* LoKoMurdoK (1)
* docent (1)
* relrod (1)
* puiterwijk (0)
* abadger1999 (0)
* mdomsch (0)
* dgilmore (0)
--
19:00:02 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2013-12-12)
19:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 12 19:00:02 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:03 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure
19:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure'
19:00:03 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all
19:00:03 <nirik> #chair smooge relrod nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean pingou puiterwijk
19:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik pingou puiterwijk relrod smooge threebean
19:00:14 * relrod here
19:00:21 * LoKoMurdoK here
19:00:37 * bitlord here (listening ...)
19:01:07 * nirik waits for folks to wander in
19:01:39 * pingou here
19:01:43 * oddshocks here
19:01:59 * tflink is lurking
19:02:31 * docent here
19:02:34 * threebean is here
19:02:39 <nirik> morning everyone
19:02:46 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks
19:02:47 <masta> howdy
19:02:54 <nirik> any new folks or apprentices with questions or comments?
19:04:15 <nirik> ok then. ;)
19:04:21 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion
19:04:28 <nirik> any application news?
19:04:48 <threebean> I got fmn into staging earlier this week! :)
19:04:50 <pingou> nuancier has full unit-tests coverage
19:04:56 <pingou> helped debugging some things out :)
19:05:02 <pingou> \ó/ for fmn!
19:05:13 <threebean> https://apps.stg.fedoraproject.org/notifications
19:05:22 <threebean> still waiting on some mockups to change up that front page
19:05:27 <nirik> #info fmn in staging now
19:05:39 <nirik> #info bunch of nuancier work
19:06:01 <nirik> pingou: does nuancier still have selinux issues? or thats not sure until we roll out the main/non-lite one?
19:06:17 <pingou> also killed a couple of bugs on pkgdb2 from the feedback I got
19:06:25 <pingou> nirik: I didn't test with selinux
19:06:42 <oddshocks> I haven't done much in Tahrir-land recently with school wrapping up, but I have successfully deployed an "RIT Badges" Tahrir with a custom theme, and we hope to get that going soon :) so that's cool http://badges.rit.edu/
19:06:52 <nirik> there's some tickets outstanding about selinux and the lite version we have deployed now...
19:07:01 <pingou> nirik: the new nuancier will need the shared storage place though
19:07:02 <nirik> oddshocks: awesome.
19:07:17 <nirik> #info some pkgdb2 bugfixing over the last week based on feedback from devel list
19:07:52 <threebean> hm -- cnucnuweb fedmsg integration is coming along today too. :)
19:07:54 <nirik> pingou: ok, we could look at gluster I guess, or a netapp volume
19:07:56 <pingou> \ó/
19:08:11 <pingou> nirik: that's what we spoke about last time, I'm fine with both :)
19:08:19 <nirik> #info cnucnuweb fedmsg integration work coming soon.
19:08:31 * ianweller is here
19:08:52 <nirik> pingou: yeah, we might wait and see how packages does after rebuilding... if it's ok with gluster thats easier.
19:08:55 <pingou> we need to see where/how we want to deploy cnucnu, we mentionned have it under release-monitoring.org or so
19:09:45 <nirik> ok.
19:10:02 <nirik> should that be something we do like others behind our proxies? or stand alone somewhere?
19:10:45 <pingou> it needs to access fedmsg
19:10:46 <nirik> I guess we can discuss and see.
19:10:49 <pingou> sure
19:10:50 <nirik> ah true...
19:11:30 <nirik> anything else on the application front?
19:11:41 <nirik> I guess we will have a bunch of things ready to land after the holidays.
19:11:52 <nirik> hopefully hyperkitty too.
19:12:02 <pingou> that would be cool :)
19:12:09 <threebean> yes :)
19:12:15 <nirik> indeedy
19:12:43 <pingou> oh and we got a new contributor to fedora-news :)
19:12:47 <pingou> https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-news/pull/4
19:13:01 <nirik> theres: fmn, nuancer, hyperkitty, cnucnuweb, pkgdb2 at least
19:13:11 <threebean> woo
19:13:14 <threebean> yeah, that's a list.
19:13:20 <nirik> nice.
19:13:30 <threebean> I have an update for fedora-packages too and was hoping to have a badges one too (out in January)
19:13:53 <nirik> I'm likely to try and move forward with some ansible migration in january... try and get things further along
19:14:08 <pingou> sounds all good :)
19:14:09 <nirik> I guess I can mention that in the sysadmin section.
19:14:22 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion
19:14:25 <nirik> I'm likely to try and move forward with some ansible migration in january... try and get things further along
19:14:26 <nirik> :)
19:14:30 <threebean> oh?
19:14:33 <threebean> :P
19:14:55 <nirik> there's also a number of easyfixes for after freeze that can land.
19:15:02 <threebean> do you have a high-level plan of attack for the ansible migration?
19:15:05 <nirik> including things like ansible cron.
19:15:20 <nirik> not really, I was going to try and come up with one, but have been so busy with f20...
19:15:25 <smooge> threebean, our plan was the first person to ask that would be given the task
19:15:31 <smooge> congratulations
19:15:36 <nirik> ha. :)
19:15:37 <pingou> good job!
19:15:46 <threebean> so lucky
19:15:52 <pingou> smooge: (is there a backup plan?)
19:16:14 <nirik> so on the sysadmin side...
19:16:42 <nirik> #info likely to get in some new hw in january... more blades for the blade server and a few new replacement virthosts to replace old ones.
19:16:50 <smooge> pingou, congratulations.. you have won the backup plan
19:16:53 <nirik> #info likely to do a on-site phx2 visit in jan/feb
19:16:58 <pingou> smooge: :-p
19:17:03 <nirik> smooge: were you going to go? or did you want me to?
19:17:13 <smooge> I was going to go
19:17:21 <smooge> I have Jan 13-16 penned in right now
19:17:21 <nirik> fine with me. ;)
19:17:28 <nirik> cool. Sounds good.
19:17:42 <nirik> I don't think we have too much pending, but always some things.
19:17:57 <smooge> will be putting in the POs this afternoon and then I will be putting in the time at site
19:18:08 <nirik> Oh, after freeze, I will likely look at reinstalling all our builders again... with f20
19:18:17 <nirik> smooge: thanks.
19:18:27 <nirik> #info builders will be redone with f20 after freeze
19:18:50 <nirik> Also, for those that didn't see it... rhel7beta is out now.
19:19:10 <tflink> nirik: would that visit be a good time to look at network isolation the the qa stuff (can talk about it outside meeting if that woks better)
19:19:18 <nirik> Nothing urgent there, but might look at it and keep it in mind... as soon as the final is out I expect we will move to it pretty quickly.
19:19:37 <nirik> tflink: sure, although we still need to get networking people to make any networking changes...
19:20:10 <pingou> nirik: I foresee FAS and mirrormanager might be the hardest to move
19:20:14 <smooge> I could see another switch in that rack with no outside connections. The eth1 would go to that
19:20:23 <tflink> ok, I thought there might be wiring changes as well but we can continue in #fedora-admin post meeting
19:20:35 <nirik> pingou: yeah, likely so
19:21:04 <smooge> so we will be rebuilding everything on RHEL7-beta say beginning of Feb :)
19:21:14 <nirik> tflink: yeah, or perhaps write up a plan and we can poke it back and forth until we have something workable?
19:21:44 <nirik> smooge: :)
19:22:21 <nirik> anything else sysadminy ?
19:22:33 <tflink> that's good to know - maybe I can avoid doing compat packages for twisted on el6 :)
19:22:50 <nirik> tflink: yeah, although it may be a while before theres a 7 final.
19:23:04 <pingou> would we consider 7 beta?
19:23:28 <nirik> for testing and looking at? sure. Anything else: no.
19:23:49 <nirik> it will not get updates, so it will fall behind on security pretty fast.
19:24:14 <nirik> also, there's not (yet) an epel7.
19:24:21 <nirik> so, very limited package set.
19:24:50 <nirik> it strangely reminds me of f19... wonder why.
19:25:07 <bitlord> :-)
19:25:18 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items
19:25:18 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/
19:25:20 <smooge> I figure we would build a .dev. environment like last time and put all our products in there on rhel7b
19:25:39 <nirik> so, as we type, the go/no-go meeting is still going in #fedora-meeting-2
19:25:47 <nirik> but it's looking like we might be go for next week.
19:26:02 <smooge> what only 1 rc? unheard of
19:26:08 <nirik> shocking I know.
19:26:37 <nirik> anyhow, even if (or especially if) we ship f20 next week, right after that is the holidays.
19:26:44 <smooge> yep
19:26:55 <nirik> even if we are out of freeze, I'd like to remind folks to be careful making changes...
19:27:14 <nirik> alerts that bother people on vacation or having to drag someone in to fix something are not good.
19:27:33 <nirik> so if you want to work on things, keep that in mind and make sure you have alerts off/things under control.
19:27:53 * pingou turns off his cell
19:27:55 <smooge> nirik, I think in the past we have just put in a freeze until Jan came back
19:28:10 <smooge> with the 2 person sign off on changes
19:28:27 <smooge> but that might have been just when we were really understaffed
19:28:28 <nirik> yeah, we could do that again... I'd like to unfreeze a bit tho, since we have stuff piled up.
19:28:46 <nirik> we can decide next week perhaps.
19:28:55 <nirik> I will be here for a meeting next week (19th)
19:29:01 <smooge> well slushy like an alpha freeze
19:29:05 <smooge> I will to.
19:29:08 <nirik> but I will be vacationing the next two weeks...
19:29:22 <nirik> shall we cancel the 26th and 2nd?
19:29:23 <smooge> I will be mostly away from keyboard from Dec 20 -> Jan 04 or my wife will kill me
19:29:28 <threebean> +1 to cancel
19:29:34 <smooge> +1 to cancel
19:29:59 <pingou> +1 to cancel
19:30:08 <nirik> sounds good to me.
19:30:46 <nirik> #agreed: we will not meet on 2013-12-26 or 2014-01-02. Meetings will resume on 2014-01-09
19:30:49 <pingou> I won't be there next week for the meeting btw
19:30:52 <oddshocks> Got it.
19:30:57 <nirik> pingou: fair enough.
19:31:37 <nirik> so, if we ship on the 17th, perhaps we unfreeze on the 18th, and then go back into a holiday freeze on the 23rd or something.
19:31:42 <nirik> but we can decide next week
19:31:45 <pingou> but I'll still be there a bit before and on the Friday during the day
19:33:03 <nirik> ok.
19:33:12 <nirik> anything else anyone would like to schedule or note upcoming?
19:33:23 <pingou> Santa is coming
19:33:26 <threebean> \ő/
19:33:45 <pingou> https://isitchristmas.com/ but still says no :(
19:33:49 <smooge> Krampus visited us this week
19:33:52 <lmacken> threebean: do you have a kinesis macro for that now? :P
19:34:06 <threebean> lmacken: its my only one
19:34:11 <lmacken> ☺
19:35:07 <nirik> ha
19:35:11 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
19:35:28 <nirik> anyone have items for open floor? questions, comments, ideas, gift suggestions?
19:35:40 <lmacken> https://github.com/bochecha/koji-mash
19:36:01 <pingou> that's bo's christmas gift!
19:36:15 <threebean> :D
19:36:17 <lmacken> indeed :)
19:36:39 <lmacken> it could use more eyes, and i think we're still waiting on upstream to decide what to do with the repos after
19:37:01 <lmacken> but it'll take a lot of work away from the bodhi masher, which will be awesome.
19:37:12 <nirik> yeah!
19:37:18 <pingou> nirik: oh and I noticed that the planet isn't liking the feed from badges, threebean started to look into but I thought maybe we could run the planet w/o > /dev/null for one and see what it says :)
19:37:40 <nirik> sure, I'd be happy to do that and see...
19:38:44 <nirik> will do after meeting.
19:38:47 <pingou> cool :)
19:38:53 <nirik> Anything else, or shall we call it a meeting?
19:39:00 <janeznemanic> I was wondering do we use openstack or something similar
19:40:15 <nirik> janeznemanic: yes, it's openstack in our private cloud... folsom
19:40:54 <janeznemanic> so there is no possibility to see how it is set up, administered etc.
19:41:30 <nirik> it's pretty seperate from the rest of our infrastructure (deliberately so)
19:41:43 <nirik> I can try and answer questions on it...
19:41:52 <janeznemanic> ok I see, just asked
19:42:30 <janeznemanic> no nothing special I was hoping to have a look at config files nothing else
19:43:00 <nirik> we are hoping to install on some new machines a newer version with ansible and have it much neater.
19:43:01 <janeznemanic> but what about ticket #4121
19:43:31 <nirik> .ticket 4121
19:43:32 <zodbot> nirik: #4121 (IPv6 link local address allocation sometimes fails on fed-cloud2) – Fedora Infrastructure - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/4121
19:43:47 <nirik> oh yeah, that... I meant to look into that. I suspect it's a folsom bug...
19:43:53 <nirik> we might be able to work around it for them
19:44:20 <janeznemanic> so basically I can't do much there
19:44:26 <nirik> yeah, sorry. ;(
19:44:31 <nirik> should have noted it...
19:44:34 <janeznemanic> ok no problem
19:44:51 <nirik> once we have the more sanely installed one config would be in ansible git repo, etc.
19:45:12 <janeznemanic> that would be great
19:45:35 <nirik> yeah. reminds me, we probibly should schedule an update/reboot cycle for the cloud... sometime.
19:45:52 <nirik> anyhow, lets go continue in #fedora-admin, #fedora-apps and #fedora-noc. ;)
19:45:58 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
19:46:01 <nirik> #endmeeting
10 years, 4 months
