May 2013 - meetingminutes - Fedora Mailing-Lists

Fedora ARM Weekly Status Meeting Minutes 2013-05-22

by Paul Whalen

Thanks to those that were able to join for the status meeting today, for those unable the minutes are posted below: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-05-22/fedora-meeti... Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-05-22/fedora-meeti... Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-05-22/fedora-meeti... =================================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Fedora ARM weekly status meeting =================================================== Meeting summary --------------- * 0) Status of ACTION items from our previous meeting (pwhalen, 20:02:39) * LINK: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-05-15/fedora-meeti... (pwhalen, 20:02:39) * INCOMPLETE -jonmasters to help review 3.10 test kernels, and assist pwhalen with vexpress (pwhalen, 20:02:50) * ACTION: jonmasters to help review 3.10 test kernels, and assist pwhalen with vexpress (pwhalen, 20:02:50) * INPROGRESS- pwhalen to post new image/instructions to the wiki for aarch64 quickstart (pwhalen, 20:03:05) * INPROGRSSS- jonmasters will check vexpress or omap over weekend (pwhalen, 20:03:05) * INPROGRESS- pwhalen will investigate tegra options (pwhalen, 20:03:05) * -COMPLETE- ctyler to send an email to the list with Pidora (Raspberry Pi Fedora 18 Remix armv6hl version) image link (pwhalen, 20:03:17) * Congrats on the new Pidora release Seneca ARM Team! (pwhalen, 20:03:17) * 1) Problem packages (pwhalen, 20:04:58) * systemd's kernel-install calls new-kernel-pkg with wrong parameters (pwhalen, 20:07:10) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=965897 (pwhalen, 20:07:17) * 2) Kernel Status Update (pwhalen, 20:12:40) * 3.10 not yet booting on any arm platform successfully (bconoboy, 20:15:56) * 3) Aarch64 (pwhalen, 20:15:58) * 3a) aarch64 status update (pwhalen, 20:16:11) * LINK: Help with broken builds, adopt one on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/AArch64/Stage4_Problem_P... (bconoboy, 20:19:49) * 4) Fedora 19 beta for ARM (pwhalen, 20:23:38) * 4a) Fedora 19 Beta for ARM - adding a GUI to the unified image (pwhalen, 20:23:46) * These is a desire in the fedora-arm community for an xfce f19-beta image (bconoboy, 20:27:04) * 4b) Fedora 19 for ARM - VFAD Results summary (pwhalen, 20:28:02) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/Quality_Assurance/2013-0... (pwhalen, 20:28:11) * ACTION: pwhalen to post ks used for highbank F19 Beta RC2 Install, add to the vfad wiki page (pwhalen, 20:32:15) * 5) Flock Plannning (pwhalen, 20:33:48) * jonmasters, pwhalen, j_dulaney to attend (bconoboy, 20:36:39) * j_dulaney to give talk on arm virt (bconoboy, 20:38:06) * 6) Open Floor (pwhalen, 20:39:35) * Pidora - Fedora Remix now available! (pwhalen, 20:40:13) * LINK: http://pidora.ca/ (pwhalen, 20:40:17) Meeting ended at 20:46:04 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jonmasters to help review 3.10 test kernels, and assist pwhalen with vexpress * pwhalen to post ks used for highbank F19 Beta RC2 Install, add to the vfad wiki page Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jonmasters * jonmasters to help review 3.10 test kernels, and assist pwhalen with vexpress * pwhalen * jonmasters to help review 3.10 test kernels, and assist pwhalen with vexpress * pwhalen to post ks used for highbank F19 Beta RC2 Install, add to the vfad wiki page * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * pwhalen (67) * bconoboy (50) * jonmasters_ (26) * j_dulaney (25) * dmarlin (14) * zodbot (10) * jcapik (8) * whenry (5) * ddd__ (4) * masta (1) * nirik (1) * Sparks (1) * ahs3 (0) * msalter (0) * pbrobinson (0) * ctyler (0) * agreene (0) * jonmasters (0) * ddd (0) * dgilmore (0)

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Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo Meeting (2013-05-22)

by Kevin Fenzi

=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2013-05-22) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 17:59:59 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-22/fesco.2013-05-... . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 17:59:59) * #1098 F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete (nirik, 18:02:00) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1098 (nirik, 18:02:00) * AGREED: This is done, close now. (nirik, 18:05:24) * #1114 Would like to become a provenpackager (nirik, 18:05:33) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1114 (nirik, 18:05:34) * AGREED: request is approved (+6,0) (nirik, 18:10:55) * #1113 Using PIE by default on AMD64 (nirik, 18:11:01) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1113 (nirik, 18:11:01) * AGREED: defer, ask Jakub/tools team for a test case that we can get numbers of where performance degrades and to what extent. (+6,0) (nirik, 18:35:03) * #1115 guidance from FESCO on packagekit upstream policykit change (nirik, 18:35:22) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1115 (nirik, 18:35:22) * AGREED: local, active, admin user can update/remove/etc. signed software w/o password. apps using this should not operate without confirmation from the user. (nirik, 19:13:37) * next week's chair (nirik, 19:17:21) * t8m to chair next week. (nirik, 19:17:55) * Elections (nirik, 19:18:00) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/Elections/ (nirik, 19:19:00) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:22:47) * flock talk submission deadline (abadger1999, 19:23:20) * Open Floor (abadger1999, 19:24:06) Meeting ended at 19:29:54 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (116) * abadger1999 (61) * mitr (59) * sgallagh (43) * notting (38) * t8m (27) * zodbot (9) * mmaslano (8) * mclasen (8) * dan408_ (7) * pjones (6) * jwb (4) * adamw (3) * halfie (2) * otaylor (2) * EvilBob (1) * jreznik (1) -- 17:59:59 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2013-05-22) 17:59:59 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 22 17:59:59 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:59 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:59 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 17:59:59 <nirik> #chair abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano notting nirik pjones t8m sgallagh 17:59:59 <nirik> #topic init process 17:59:59 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 17:59:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m 18:00:02 <t8m> hello 18:00:09 <abadger1999> greetings 18:00:14 * notting is here 18:00:15 <mmaslano> hi 18:00:28 <sgallagh> Hello 18:00:30 <mitr> Hello 18:01:52 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and dive in then... 18:02:00 <nirik> #topic #1098 F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete 18:02:00 <nirik> .fesco 1098 18:02:00 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1098 18:02:01 <zodbot> nirik: #1098 (F19 Features - Progress on Features 100% Complete) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1098 18:02:35 <nirik> so, the only one thats not is anaconda, and it sounds like thats really 100% anyhow... 18:03:45 <nirik> so, close and move on? or some other action? 18:03:54 <jreznik> for what we care about from anaconda - I'd say we can deal with it as done 18:04:00 <t8m> nirik, +1 18:04:05 <abadger1999> +1 18:04:06 <t8m> to close and move on 18:04:19 <mitr> +1 18:04:34 <mmaslano> +1 18:05:24 <nirik> #agreed This is done, close now. 18:05:33 <nirik> #topic #1114 Would like to become a provenpackager 18:05:33 <sgallagh> +1 18:05:34 <nirik> .fesco 1114 18:05:34 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1114 18:05:34 <notting> that works. +1 18:05:34 <zodbot> nirik: #1114 (Would like to become a provenpackager) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1114 18:06:08 <notting> this didn't get any +1 or -1 specifically, so moved to the meeting. 18:06:31 <nirik> yeah. 18:06:31 <sgallagh> I have no problems granting provenpackager in order to facilitate dealing with large numbers of packages 18:06:42 <abadger1999> would've been nice if sochotni or akuratov had +1'd the request... 18:06:48 <nirik> I guess it would be nice if at least some other folks in the java sig... yeah. 18:07:04 <notting> but i could assume an implicit +1 from them if they asked him to do it 18:07:26 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:07:37 <nirik> yeah, I guess +1 based on that. 18:07:51 <t8m> mmaslano, do you know any details? 18:07:55 <mmaslano> no 18:09:11 <t8m> If we had package groups it would be a perfect case for allowing access to such java group, but we really don't so +1 18:09:28 <mmaslano> yes +1 18:09:41 <notting> yeah, +1 18:09:44 <sgallagh> +1 18:10:10 <nirik> more votes? 18:10:42 <nirik> #agreed request is approved (+5,0) 18:10:46 <abadger1999> +1 18:10:52 <nirik> #undo 18:10:52 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1d8cde10> 18:10:55 <nirik> #agreed request is approved (+6,0) 18:11:01 <nirik> #topic #1113 Using PIE by default on AMD64 18:11:01 <abadger1999> if someone in java sig objects we can always revisit. 18:11:01 <nirik> .fesco 1113 18:11:01 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1113 18:11:02 <zodbot> nirik: #1113 (Using PIE by default on AMD64) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1113 18:11:22 <mitr> In case you haven't seen it - I have just pasted Jakub's reply into the tiket 18:11:45 <sgallagh> Based on Jakub's response, I'm -1 here 18:12:05 * abadger1999 wishes someone would propose a test case 18:12:18 <mmaslano> me to -1 18:12:34 <t8m> I'd really like to see some serious numbers before voting for that, so for now +0 18:12:52 <t8m> Although I'd like to see prelink removed :) 18:12:57 <sgallagh> I'm unwilling to change the policy globally at this point 18:13:00 <nirik> I know jakub knows whats what, but the numbers really seem to be not supporting his contention. 18:13:08 <t8m> but again that would need some numbers 18:13:09 <abadger1999> the person asking for this seems willing to do the work to test... none of the test cases people have asked him to perform have shown a large performance degredation. 18:13:32 <mitr> I can sort of see a case for flipping the default and making it very easy to opt out - what isn't processing untrusted data these days? 18:13:33 <nirik> yeah. 18:14:00 <t8m> mitr, yeah that would be something I could support too 18:14:36 <nirik> it would also mean more differences between 32/64bit, which could be confusing to people. 18:14:51 * nirik is personally not a fan of prelink. 18:15:09 <mitr> PIE and prelink are almost completely unrelated 18:15:14 <nirik> true. 18:15:26 <nirik> well, aside from if you use PIE you can't prelink 18:15:49 <t8m> sure 18:15:54 <mitr> I'd expect that to be fixable. 18:16:08 <nirik> proposal: ask jakub/the list again for cases where "the cost is serious", revisit next week? 18:16:09 <notting> 3.6% overall is certainly significant in terms of overall performance. (compiler people would kill for a 3.6% improvement ) 18:16:17 <mitr> notting: yeah 18:16:39 <mitr> notting: OTOH many users willingly sacrifice more than that for a safer language 18:16:50 <t8m> notting, but what does it mean in the reality when most of the code is already PIC in shared libraries? 18:16:59 <notting> was it chromeos that does pie for everything? or was that just full relro + full stack protector? 18:17:57 <notting> t8m: perhaps not as much. but the code in binary vs lib breakdown should be pretty easy to generalize across a system 18:18:33 <mitr> t8m: So, the change would make a difference for 1) CPU-performance-sensitive code 2) in the main binary 3) that isn't a server. What categories of code are we actually talking about? Numerical simulations? 18:18:57 <mitr> games? (non-multiplayer ones) 18:19:08 <t8m> mitr, perhaps - which means an easy opt-out would be probably the best way 18:19:25 <notting> hm. there's an implication in that that we would want one default for fedora code, and another for customer/user code 18:20:24 <mitr> notting: We've always had that with redhat-rpm-config. It's schizophrenic and we might want to unify that... but I'm not willing to invest too much into this aspect. 18:21:06 <nirik> are there other tools folks we should ask to weigh in? 18:21:29 * nirik imagines a %__turbo macro for non PIE. :) 18:22:13 <t8m> LOL 18:22:16 <mitr> %_funroll_loops 18:22:38 <abadger1999> nirik: maybe the security team? 18:22:56 <nirik> I think the reporter is part of the security team... but sure. ;) 18:23:32 <mitr> mitr and t8m are a part of another security team FWIW. We haven't had direct input from the third security team yet :) 18:24:24 <notting> if you'd like, we can get the facilities security team involved too 18:24:37 <t8m> maybe if we created another security team we could get more input :) 18:24:48 <abadger1999> heh. so many teams concerned with security ;-) 18:24:49 <mitr> So... where are we? 18:25:04 <nirik> "A quick evaluation for x64 reports an average overhead of 3.61% and a geometric mean of 2.34% for an -O3 opti-mization level on the same system using the “test” dataset" 18:25:20 <notting> ... note that -O3 isn't the default 18:25:22 <nirik> of SPEC CPU 2006 18:25:32 <nirik> so thats one older spec benchmark. 18:25:34 <jwb> that seems irrelevant 18:26:13 <dan408_> prime95! 18:26:32 <nirik> anyhow, I'd be in favor of another week for more feedback. 18:26:38 <abadger1999> ahh halfie == dhiru. got it. 18:26:53 <nirik> Or if we wanted to vote now, I'd probibly be +0.5 for the proposal 18:27:11 <mitr> Proposal: FESCo is fine with using PIE by default on amd64, and would like to ask the submitter to prepare the required redhat-rpm-config changes and perhaps new macros, and get it ratified by the FPC. 18:27:18 <dan408_> not my place: but i have a feeling if you enable PIE by default a lot of things will start failing to compile 18:27:21 <mitr> I'm personally +0.5 currently 18:27:35 <nirik> mitr: does this need to go to FPC? 18:27:36 <notting> +0 as of now 18:27:52 <nirik> mitr: also, we should ask them to provide a way to easily opt out? or no? 18:27:55 <mitr> nirik: I'd expect some new macros to be introduced ("is PIE enabled in this build") that would benefit from a wider review. 18:27:59 <mitr> nirik: right 18:28:09 <sgallagh> I'd rather we document it as "recommended" and leave it up to the maintainers, personally. 18:28:17 <dan408_> +1 sgallagh 18:28:22 <abadger1999> mitr: new macro to opt out? 18:28:34 <mitr> mitr: Proposal: FESCo is fine with using PIE by default on amd64 if packagers are given an easy way to opt out, and would like to ask the submitter to prepare the required redhat-rpm-config changes and policies, and get it ratified by the FPC. 18:28:35 <abadger1999> +0.5 to mitr's proposal 18:28:36 <dan408_> i find if code supports -PIE it will use it OOTB 18:29:05 <mitr> dan408_: Writing code that can't be complied as PIE requires writing assembler AFAIK. 18:29:59 <nirik> so, what does this mean for prelink? still shipped by default, but just exits uselessly on 64bit? (or I guess does the small number of opt out things?) 18:30:00 <dan408_> mitr: well seeing how much trouble it gave me when I tried to enable it with lightdm as well as Rex im just imagining a lot of things starting to fail to compile if you do it distro wide for amd64 18:30:06 <notting> i guess i'm more -1 to mitr's proposal *today*. if it is better, we should be able to (with the security team, if necessary/possible) be able to convince the toolchain team why 18:30:32 <jwb> notting, right. i'm -1 on the same grounds 18:30:41 <abadger1999> I guess right now I have reservations due to jakub being against it but the data so far inclines me to vote for it.... really would like more data to be more solidly +/- 18:30:59 * nirik is with abadger1999, which is why I wanted another week. 18:31:07 <t8m> I agree we need more solid data 18:31:14 <mitr> abadger1999, nirik, t8m: Can you specify what kind of data precisely? 18:31:27 <sgallagh> If we're voting today, I'd be -1. If we want to ask for more information, that may change in a week 18:31:38 <mmaslano> still -1 18:31:39 <nirik> mitr: I want more data from jakub? some case(s) where "the cost is serious" 18:31:46 <mitr> I'm fine with waiting another week in any case if it helps; just saying "we want more data" isn't too likely to make us decide next time. 18:31:58 <dan408_> i think sgallagh made a sane proposal, if you guys +1 this today or 7 days from now the instructions provided to enable it were not sufficient 18:32:08 <abadger1999> Proposal : defer, ask Jakub/tools team for a test case that we can get numbers of where performance degrades and to what extent. 18:32:33 <nirik> abadger1999: +1 18:32:46 <sgallagh> Aside: I have a hard stop in 28 minutes and I know we have another involved topic to discuss... 18:32:54 <t8m> abadger1999, I suppose you can create artificial example where the performance degrades seriously 18:33:22 <nirik> sure, I'd want some cases of fedora packages... 18:33:29 <abadger1999> t8m: how about: "where real world performance degrades[...]" ? 18:33:32 <t8m> nirik, OK then 18:33:33 <notting> abadger1999: +1 18:33:36 <t8m> abadger1999, OK 18:33:39 <jwb> i'd like to see numbers based on the current rpm macro settings too. not -O3 18:33:39 <abadger1999> +1 18:33:50 <t8m> jwb, +1 18:34:07 <nirik> so thats +4 for abadger1999's proposal? 18:34:11 <abadger1999> jwb: +1 So for halfie, could we have numbers based on current rpm macro settings, not -O3 18:34:12 <sgallagh> +1 18:34:20 <mitr> I guess I'd like to see what cases of packages are harmed by the proposal; the list we have so far (numeric simulations incl. games) isn't too convicing but we may have missed something. 18:34:24 <sgallagh> Clarity: that's +1 to getting more information from the tools team 18:34:27 <mitr> abadger1999: +1 18:34:58 <dan408_> a display manager.. 18:35:03 <nirik> #agreed defer, ask Jakub/tools team for a test case that we can get numbers of where performance degrades and to what extent. (+6,0) 18:35:22 <nirik> #topic #1115 guidance from FESCO on packagekit upstream policykit change 18:35:22 <nirik> .fesco 1115 18:35:22 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1115 18:35:24 <zodbot> nirik: #1115 (guidance from FESCO on packagekit upstream policykit change) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1115 18:35:31 <halfie> hi, just got in. 18:36:12 <t8m> halfie, too late :) 18:36:33 <sgallagh> So this ticket has seen a lot of discussion on Trac 18:36:45 <halfie> no worries, I am very happy with the resolution. I am willing to work on getting those numbers. 18:37:31 <sgallagh> So as Mirek pointed out, the upstream change here to allow all users the ability to install signed packages without a password is in direct violation of published policy. 18:37:31 <mitr> Let me try to simplify this a little... 18:38:02 <sgallagh> However, since that policy was written (last updated Feb 2010) we have added a new Administrator concept around membership in the wheel group 18:38:21 <t8m> I'd be fine with letting wheel group members install such packages without password 18:38:21 <mclasen> the packages that this is all about contain nothing but videos... 18:38:25 <mitr> sgallagh: No, the administrator concept is explicitly included by the policy; it was one of the results of that discussion. 18:38:25 <sgallagh> I'd argue that this change would probably be acceptable if limited to those users. 18:38:44 * nirik waits for mitr's simplication. 18:38:58 <jwb> mclasen, videos? 18:39:12 <mitr> proposal: The privilege escalation policy stands (for the default configuration, not necessarily for all spins - explicitly the desktop spin can have a different configuration) and the change should be reverted. Now we'll talk about the users in "wheel" group. 18:39:22 <mclasen> yes, the original motivation for the upstream change is to support lang-pack installation of the gnome-welcome-tour videos 18:40:51 * mclasen has stunned fesco into silence 18:40:52 * nirik isn't sure he's for that until he sees the further proposals. 18:40:54 <mitr> (that's end of the proposal, not "next part of the proposal will talk about wheel") 18:41:28 <notting> mclasen: that may be , but the ability can't be constrained to that in the current implementation 18:41:41 <t8m> mitr, +1 18:41:42 <abadger1999> mclasen: according to the ticket, the pakcagekit code isn't able to limit to a specific package or type of package, though... is that correct or incorrect? 18:42:14 <sgallagh> abadger1999: There's no inherent metadata in a package that PackageKit could base that on as far as I'm aware. 18:42:20 <mclasen> thats correct - yum can't either... 18:42:24 <mitr> abadger1999: That's fixable in various ways (not for f19 beta of course) 18:42:28 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:43:06 <mitr> mclasen: That doesn't make sense to me - do we want the very first thing the user sees on login a progress dialog (... to download a vide that the user will never see again)? The videos (or something equivalent that isn't that large, perhaps) should just be installed by default 18:43:09 <abadger1999> yep. Just wanting to be clear that the ticket is expressing what we'd be okaying or not okaying... not just installing videos or not. 18:43:12 <sgallagh> For the record, I'm +1 to mitr's first proposal, though I expect we'll have much to discuss with 'wheel' 18:43:51 <nirik> mitr: so, your proposal would mean thats the default policy, but any spin or group could write their own from scratch? or ? 18:43:53 <mitr> This also btw. my general objection to installation on demand - we're better off just installing most of those things by default anyway, like we did with fonts for all the world's languages IIRC 18:44:04 <sgallagh> mclasen: In addition to mitr's comment: how does that work in the case of a disconnected install (which is probably the default in today's WiFI world) 18:44:06 <abadger1999> sgallagh: there are numerous knobs here... what's teh proposal? 18:44:06 <mitr> nirik: They already can do that 18:44:35 <sgallagh> abadger1999: The one mitr proposed starting with "proposal: the privilege escalation policy stands..." 18:44:37 <abadger1999> oh I see... 18:44:53 <abadger1999> +1 mitr's proposal for status quo for default configuration. 18:45:06 <mmaslano> me too +1 18:45:16 <nirik> mitr: not according to the policy? 18:45:17 <notting> that would be s/yes/auth_admin/, essentially? 18:46:04 <mitr> nirik: " In the case of an approved Fedora spin which automatically grants administrative privileges to the first created user account, authentication as that user can be considered administrative authentication;" etc. 18:46:19 <mitr> nirik: Perhaps it doesn't cover some case you are thinking of? 18:46:21 <nirik> ok, I couldn't find that in there. 18:46:49 <mitr> notting: Yes (the old version had auth_admin_keep in there IIRC) 18:46:50 <nirik> sure, I am fine with starting from the existing policy and modifying it as we feel or not for this case... 18:48:14 <notting> i can agree with changing the hardcoded 'yes' due to the policy (unless we change the policy...) 18:48:49 <abadger1999> I think if nirik and notting are +1 then we're at +6 18:48:57 <notting> but i don't think we should stop there 18:49:06 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:49:07 <nirik> sure, lets actually look at this case now? 18:50:03 <abadger1999> sgallagh: So... what do you believe has changed with wheel/what does the wheel group allow a user account to do now? 18:50:34 <nirik> so, the request is to remove upgrading or installing system wide packages from the list of things normal users should not be allowed to directly do right? 18:50:46 <sgallagh> Well, compared to Fedora 12, we now have at least an accepted way to identify a user who is known to be "privileged" 18:50:48 <nirik> or some variant on allowing that 18:50:55 <pjones> (er, sorry I'm late. Stuff came up.) 18:51:00 <sgallagh> Whereas that would previously have been ambiguous (as of F12 when this last came up) 18:52:02 <abadger1999> sgallagh: so.... wheel group has become the official method of marking an account as being more special than general user? 18:52:34 <sgallagh> Well, the use of "wheel" is a fedora-ism, but in general desktop-land, there's an "Administrator" concept that we just translate into that group 18:52:50 <sgallagh> It's therefore presumably acceptable for users in this group to be granted more leeway with decision-making 18:53:04 <abadger1999> sgallagh: k. And what is that "Administrator" concept allowed to do right now without retyping in their password? 18:53:40 <sgallagh> abadger1999: Now we're getting to the part of the policy that I think may be malleable. 18:53:42 * abadger1999 asks because he's only used wheel in conjunction with PASSWD-sudo... so the usage there would imply retyping the password is still the expectation 18:53:49 <sgallagh> The answer there is "little", but I think that may be wrong 18:54:15 <sgallagh> For a non-privileged user, prompting for a privileged user's password makes sense. I think we'll all agree on that. 18:54:36 <sgallagh> But for a privileged user, re-prompting for the password serves only to address the walk-by-attacker problem 18:54:54 <sgallagh> And let's be honest: if physical security has been compromised, one password dialog does not a secure system make. 18:55:10 * nirik nods. 18:55:15 <mitr> abadger1999: Right now polkit would ask for the user's password instead of root's password; gnome-control-center has a weird rule that allows "wheel" to set hostname without any password; and that's mostly it. 18:55:56 <nirik> we also grant prvis to "local" users. 18:56:07 <nirik> ie, acls for sound devices, usb ownership, etc. 18:56:08 <notting> mitr: locale, keyboard, and hostname, to be precise 18:56:25 <abadger1999> wouldn't it include other local compromises, not just physical compromises? For instance if I get your unencrypted ssh private key? 18:56:29 <mitr> notting: I suppose that's changed since f18 then 18:56:42 <sgallagh> Right, so I'm suggesting that the active console user who is a member of the wheel group should probably be eligible to install software without reauthenticating 18:56:42 <notting> mitr: (by reading the rule file) 18:56:51 <notting> abadger1999: that's not local 18:57:03 <sgallagh> abadger1999: I'm talking about active user (which policykit can differentiate) 18:57:08 <sgallagh> An SSH session would not qualify 18:57:28 <nirik> I'm not sure requiring wheel there is needed... what does it gain us? 18:57:28 <mclasen> mitr: that control-center rule was more of a workaround for a ui deficiency, we should get rid of it 18:57:55 <abadger1999> sgallagh: okay -- so you're proposing both 1) wheel group/Administrator group and 2) physical session on the box. 18:57:58 * sgallagh has to run in three minutes 18:58:02 <nirik> it's still someone who has been granted access... and is local to the machine and can probibly break in pretty easily. 18:58:02 <sgallagh> Yes, exactly. 18:58:25 <pjones> nirik: as much as that's somewhat true, let's pretend it isn't for these purposes? 18:58:26 <sgallagh> So the auth has already been validated by *DM or *-screensaver at this point 18:58:33 <pjones> nirik: I mean, there *could* be physical security. 18:58:39 <nirik> sure, I suppose. 18:58:53 <mitr> sgallagh: 1) There's also the "signaling" benefit - "I want your password because this is a serious decision"... which is kind of ridiculous but also kind of true, 2) Not prompting for a password makes reasonable sense only when a screensaver locks after a timeout 18:58:57 <nirik> I just suspect if we require that, everyone will just add everyone to the wheel group 18:59:29 <mitr> pjones: When there is physical security, the users are typically not in "wheel". 18:59:30 <sgallagh> nirik: What are you responding to? 18:59:50 <sgallagh> mitr: Sure, but I'm hoping that we can at least ask for a "yes-or-no" prompt instead of a full password prompt. 18:59:52 <nirik> the above proposal? 19:00:03 <sgallagh> Then we're also avoiding the "train the user to enter their password everywhere" problem 19:00:24 <mitr> sgallagh: I'm willing to bet the "yes/no" prompt isn't going to happen in GNOME upstream. 19:01:04 <mitr> Technically it might be doable in polkit, but... 19:01:06 <nirik> counterproposal: local users are allowed to use PK to install/update signed/trusted packages from their active local session. 19:01:08 <mclasen> its already happening in most of these cases - eg you get the 'gnome-terminal wants to install a font' - yes/no ? dialog 19:01:09 <sgallagh> I unfortunately have to go and collect my daughter from daycare now. Sorry, but you may assume a +1 vote to my own proposal if it comes to that. 19:01:12 <otaylor> sgallagh: "yes-or-no" prompt can't *securely* be provided at the PolicyKit level, so there's no benefit of doing it there compared to just doing it in the triggering application (an UI expectation on software that uses PackageKit to install packages) 19:01:15 <nirik> (without password) sorry 19:01:31 <abadger1999> nirik: -1 19:01:32 <mitr> nirik: -1 19:01:34 <sgallagh> nirik: -1 19:01:37 <nirik> ok. 19:01:48 <notting> nirik: *any* local user? i could be +1. but that's contrary to the priv escalation policy 19:01:56 <sgallagh> If everyone opts to use the wheel group, that's their own decision 19:01:59 <nirik> active, logged in at console. 19:02:02 <sgallagh> I don't want to make that the expected behavior 19:02:13 <nirik> wheel also grants them sudo remotely. 19:02:39 <mitr> sgallagh: I have just found https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852393 on that note :/ 19:02:39 <nirik> notting: yeah, we would need to modify it, but sounds like folks don't like the idea. ;( 19:02:42 <sgallagh> and now really gone (will read scrollback, or send me an email with the proposals being voted on and I'll reply by phone 19:03:01 <mmaslano> nirik: -1 19:03:10 <notting> proposal: local, active, admin user can update/remove/etc. signed software w/o password? 19:03:10 <abadger1999> sgallagh: let us know when you get back if the meeting hasn't ended ;-) 19:03:23 <nirik> could the -1 folks say what their concern is with that? 19:03:36 <sgallagh> notting: +1 (since that's effectively the same as what I've been saying) 19:03:40 <nirik> notting: +1, but I'm for even non admin I think... barring more info. ;) 19:03:43 <mitr> nirik: The problem with auto-installation is especially for codecs, where codecs are the worst ever thing to auto-install (I send the user an email with a link to a website, that website serves a video in an obscure format, the system happily installs the vulnerable code and runs the exploit) 19:03:49 <abadger1999> notting: where admin user == marked as admin via wheel or polkit? 19:04:02 <nirik> mitr: this codec is signed and in our repos? 19:04:12 <mitr> nirik: yes, but "obscure" 19:04:16 <abadger1999> I don't like packages being installed without the admin user's knowledge, though.. 19:04:24 <notting> abadger1999: wheel. users marked as admin via other mechanisms in polkit aren't exposed to the polkit rules engine that way. (yes, i find this weird) 19:04:27 <mitr> Codecs and image formats are fairly high-risk software. 19:04:40 <t8m> notting, +1 19:04:41 <abadger1999> notting: huh. Okay :-) 19:04:45 <nirik> so a 'admin' user would be more clued on this somehow? 19:04:46 <mitr> notting: I don't like the idea of making package installation that much of a special case. 19:04:52 <pjones> nirik: might be signed and in rpmfusion? 19:05:16 <mclasen> mitr: but fonts, videos, docs etc are comparatively low risk 19:05:23 <abadger1999> Okay-- still want some way to make sure the user is notified that the package is being installed. 19:05:25 <notting> mitr: but we allow the users the ability to compromise themselves like that already (fonts, codecs, etc. can all be installed local to the user) 19:05:37 <nirik> pjones: sure 19:05:38 <abadger1999> if the only way to do that now is via a password dialog... :-( 19:05:48 <mclasen> now, one could argue that those should not be in rpms to begin with, but i'm in the wrong channel for that :-) 19:05:57 <EvilBob> Or in "The Repo That Shall Not Be Named" that was set up and enabled by a "admin" with little experience 19:05:58 <otaylor> abadger1999: Do you know of any auto-installation on the desktop that doesn't prompt the user first? 19:06:01 <notting> abadger1999: that notification would be via the requesting app 19:06:01 <mitr> notting: If the user can be social-engineered to do _that_ i'm not feeling guilty 19:06:30 <abadger1999> notting: <nod> So could we put that into the proposal? 19:06:35 <nirik> you can social enginneer people to do lots of things. ;) But we can't protect them from all possible social engineering. 19:06:47 <notting> mitr: users can be socially engineered for a lot. "hi, onion? plz to give us your password. thanks, syria" 19:06:49 <mitr> notting: Still, the required signature does make it a little of a special case. 19:07:05 <abadger1999> the proposal right now doesn't specify which part of the stack is enforcing things... just that those things have to happen or not happen. 19:07:37 <abadger1999> so I'd like it to say that asking the user to confirm the installation is mandatory. 19:08:17 <abadger1999> with that addition I think I'm +1 19:08:49 <notting> proposal: (amended) local, active, admin user can update/remove/etc. signed software w/o password. apps using this should not operate without confirmation from the user. 19:09:11 <nirik> sure, +1 19:09:13 <abadger1999> notting: +1 19:10:25 <nirik> more votes? 19:10:35 <t8m> notting, +1 19:10:37 <pjones> notting: +1 19:10:39 <mitr> Will we be voting about the same thing for the firewall or udisks within a month? 19:10:53 <t8m> mitr, heh, good question 19:11:08 <notting> ... heh. likely? 19:11:14 <nirik> so, shall we generalize? or ? 19:11:36 <mitr> I'm kind of thinking that "local active admin user with a screensaver set" should perhaps not require a password prompt. 19:11:52 <abadger1999> mitr: If there's nothing on the agenda for next week, maybe we want to stew on how to generalize and propose something next week? 19:12:05 <mitr> However 1) I'm not sure how this interacts with not-so-trusted applications, which seems to be the future, and 2) we don't need to decide today 19:12:25 <notting> mitr: maybe generalize for the future 19:12:46 <nirik> ok, so defer to next week for concrete proposals? 19:13:07 <notting> well, i think mine passed? unless people want to detract and defer 19:13:15 <notting> er, *re*tract 19:13:17 <nirik> so it did. 19:13:24 <nirik> Do we want to block beta on this? 19:13:28 <abadger1999> notting: assuming you're +1 on your own proposal :-) 19:13:37 <nirik> #agreed local, active, admin user can update/remove/etc. signed software w/o password. apps using this should not operate without confirmation from the user. 19:13:40 <notting> abadger1999: i am, and sgallagh says he was on the unamended version 19:13:45 <abadger1999> <nod> 19:13:58 <notting> nirik: -1 to blocking beta. but would take the fix if we had it and happened to be respinning 19:14:14 * abadger1999 agrees with notting 19:14:28 <mitr> nirik: Per comment #10 it's too late, and a release note is good enough for beta. We do want to block GA though. 19:14:30 <nirik> adamw suggested we note the current behavior so no one is surprised in beta. 19:14:32 <abadger1999> adamw mentioned wanting to put a big disclaimer in the beta release notes as well. 19:14:35 <nirik> right 19:14:36 <abadger1999> jinx 19:14:50 <notting> adamw: you ok handling that for beta relnotes? 19:14:56 <adamw> we are doing an rc4 today so we could try and ram a reversion in, but it kinda gives me the screaming heebie jeebies 19:15:12 <t8m> mitr, +1 19:15:23 <adamw> notting: um, probably? i think that just goes through rbergeron, right? 19:15:39 <notting> you have seen through my plan of delegating it b/c i didn't remember the procedure. 19:15:44 <notting> curse you! 19:15:51 <nirik> so, do we close this since we agreed on something? or also leave it open for the more general proposals next week? 19:16:15 <adamw> notting: :) 19:16:44 * nirik would like to see a more general one 19:16:47 <notting> nirik: i'd have mitr (or anyone who has a proposal) open a new ticket? 19:16:48 <abadger1999> nirik: I'd like a new ticket. if people are agreed that we'll discuss it next week, I'll take care of opening the ticket. 19:16:55 <nirik> ok. 19:16:56 <mitr> I'm personally not likely to invest too much time into implementing the general version soonish 19:17:02 <nirik> anything else on this? 19:17:03 <abadger1999> I just might not be the one to make a proposal :-) 19:17:21 <nirik> #topic next week's chair 19:17:32 <t8m> nirik, I can do it 19:17:49 <nirik> thanks 19:17:55 <nirik> #info t8m to chair next week. 19:18:00 <nirik> #topic Elections 19:18:12 <nirik> elections are coming up, please put in your name if you want to run. 19:18:47 <nirik> 2013-05-26 is the deadline. 19:19:00 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/Elections/ 19:19:27 <nirik> we only have 2 fesco nominations so far. 19:19:30 <mitr> nirik: Please add the first resolution (reverting etc.) to #1115 as well. 19:20:05 <nirik> hum? 19:21:00 <nirik> what are we reverting? 19:21:04 * nirik might need more coffee. 19:21:06 <abadger1999> nirik: for f19 19:21:27 <abadger1999> although I'm not sure if that's what we agreed to or not. 19:21:32 <mitr> nirik: "proposal: The privilege escalation policy stands (for the default configuration, not necessarily for all spins - explicitly the desktop spin can have a different configuration) and the change should be reverted. Now we'll talk about the users in "wheel" group." (or didn't it pass?) 19:22:06 <nirik> ok. I'm not sure it makes sense to say "Our policy is still our policy", but feel free to add that to the ticket? 19:22:31 <mitr> will do 19:22:47 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:22:53 <nirik> any items for open floor? 19:23:20 <abadger1999> #topic flock talk submission deadline 19:23:35 <abadger1999> May 31, 2013 at 11:59 p.m. ET 19:23:56 <abadger1999> (Note: timezone is not UTC) 19:23:58 * nirik nods. 19:24:06 <abadger1999> #topic Open Floor 19:24:35 <mitr> Has anyone proposed a talk to discuss the FUDCon Lawrence-originated "revamp" yet? 19:25:34 <abadger1999> Current proposals: http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/proposals 19:25:42 <pjones> mitr: kind of assuming you would ;) 19:25:58 <nirik> there's one on there I thought. 19:26:09 <nirik> I thought sgallagh_afk submitted one 19:27:36 <nirik> "The totally new Fedora Changes Process: A tutorial" 19:27:41 <nirik> similar I guess 19:27:50 * mitr makes a note to make sure, later 19:28:17 <abadger1999> I see another one as well: "The old new planning process" 19:28:36 * nirik will close out in a min if nothing else. 19:29:07 <abadger1999> maybe people who are okay with having their names on talks should add their names to their talk summaries... /me asks on the flock planning list. 19:29:42 <nirik> the question was already asked there about the names. ;) but sure. 19:29:50 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 19:29:54 <nirik> #endmeeting

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F19 Beta Blocker Bug Review #8 Minutes

by Tim Flink

================================================ #fedora-blocker-review: f19beta-blocker-review-8 ================================================ Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-22/f19beta... Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-22/f19beta... Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-22/f19beta... Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (tflink, 16:07:24) * Introduction (tflink, 16:20:18) * Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs. (tflink, 16:20:23) * We'll be following the process outlined at: (tflink, 16:20:28) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting (tflink, 16:20:28) * The bugs up for review today are available at: (tflink, 16:20:33) * LINK: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current (tflink, 16:20:33) * The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at: (tflink, 16:20:38) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_19_Beta_Release_Criteria (tflink, 16:20:38) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_19_Alpha_Release_Criteria (tflink, 16:20:40) * Up for review today, we have: (tflink, 16:20:43) * 2 Proposed Blockers (tflink, 16:20:50) * 1 Accepted Blockers (tflink, 16:20:50) * 2 Proposed Freeze Exceptions (tflink, 16:20:50) * 10 Accepted Freeze Exceptions (tflink, 16:20:50) * (965974) Software selection can't be exited in text mode (tflink, 16:21:58) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=965974 (tflink, 16:21:58) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, MODIFIED (tflink, 16:21:58) * LINK: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/13750/92405271/ (kparal, 16:35:39) * AGREED: 965974 - RejectedBlocker AcceptedFreezeException - While this does make the text installer more useful by allowing package set selection, the text installer isn't completely broken and workarounds do exist (use graphical installer or kickstart). A tested fix would be considered during beta freeze. (tflink, 16:41:43) * (965940) Most package groups missing from F19 Beta RC3 DVD (tflink, 16:41:50) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=965940 (tflink, 16:41:50) * Proposed Blocker, pungi, NEW (tflink, 16:41:50) * AGREED: 965940 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F19 beta release criterion for KDE and Gnome desktop environments: "When doing a graphical install using the dedicated installer images, the installer must be able to install each of the release blocking desktops, as well as the minimal package set." (tflink, 16:48:20) * (966162) fedora-dmraid-activate shouldn't tell kpartx to use a partition delimiter (tflink, 16:48:29) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=966162 (tflink, 16:48:32) * Proposed Blocker, dmraid, NEW (tflink, 16:48:34) * AGREED: 966162 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F19 beta criterion for dmraid devices: "The installer must be able to detect and install to hardware or firmware RAID storage devices" (tflink, 17:07:27) * (869364) Installation Destination screen is sometimes rendered not at full screen width (tflink, 17:08:07) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=869364 (tflink, 17:08:10) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, ASSIGNED (tflink, 17:08:12) * Open Floor (tflink, 17:13:13) Meeting ended at 17:27:03 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * tflink (117) * adamw (59) * jreznik (29) * kparal (26) * j_dulaney (15) * nirik (11) * brunowolff (10) * satellit (5) * zodbot (3) * sbueno (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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FAmNA Meeting (21 May 2013)

by inode0

====================== #fedora-meeting: FAmNA ====================== Meeting started by inode0 at 01:00:11 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-22/famna.2013-05-... . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (inode0, 01:00:26) * Announcements (inode0, 01:03:29) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections (inode0, 01:03:49) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections/Questionnaire (inode0, 01:05:22) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_20 (inode0, 01:07:52) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9 (inode0, 01:09:12) * Tickets (inode0, 01:09:18) * event box shipping to masta (masta, 01:20:39) * swag to ship soon for txlf (masta, 01:20:53) * Open Floor (inode0, 01:35:18) * Pencils are done and should be shipping around the country soon (inode0, 01:35:50) Meeting ended at 01:44:52 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * inode0 (55) * dan408_ (42) * masta (27) * award3535 (24) * nb (19) * kk4ewt (16) * zodbot (11) * j_dulaney (10) * suehle (6) * HannahEeps (3) * jsmith (1) John

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F19 Beta Blocker Bug Review #7 - Minutes

by Tim Flink

================================================ #fedora-blocker-review: f19beta-blocker-review-7 ================================================ Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-20/f19beta... Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-20/f19beta... Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2013-05-20/f19beta... Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (tflink, 16:07:28) * Introduction (tflink, 16:18:02) * Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs. (tflink, 16:18:55) * We'll be following the process outlined at: (tflink, 16:18:59) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting (tflink, 16:19:00) * The bugs up for review today are available at: (tflink, 16:19:05) * LINK: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current (tflink, 16:19:05) * The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at: (tflink, 16:19:10) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_19_Beta_Release_Criteria (tflink, 16:19:10) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_19_Alpha_Release_Criteria (tflink, 16:19:13) * Up for review today, we have: (tflink, 16:19:16) * 5 Proposed Blockers (tflink, 16:19:22) * 3 Accepted Blockers (tflink, 16:19:23) * 12 Proposed Freeze Exceptions (tflink, 16:19:23) * 9 Accepted Freeze Exceptions (tflink, 16:19:23) * (963952) Failure to connect to wired ethernet on reboots (tflink, 16:20:55) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963952 (tflink, 16:20:55) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, POST (tflink, 16:20:55) * AGREED: 963952 - RejectedBlocker RejectedFreezeException - This doesn't violate any F19 beta release requirements and it's getting too close to release to be taking changes like this as FE. Rejected as blocker and FreezeException for F19 beta (tflink, 16:26:08) * (964069) Anaconda creates native partition in text mode if LVM or btrfs is selected (tflink, 16:26:30) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=964069 (tflink, 16:26:33) * Proposed Blocker, anaconda, MODIFIED (tflink, 16:26:35) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=964069#c11 was my shot at the criteria (adamw, 16:30:46) * AGREED: 964069 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F19 beta release criterion for text installs: "When using the guided partitioning flow, the installer must be able to ... complete an installation using any combination of disk configuration options it allows the user to select" (tflink, 16:34:25) * (963810) Could not get update details: Error Type: <type 'exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError'> (tflink, 16:34:31) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963810 (tflink, 16:34:34) * Proposed Blocker, PackageKit, MODIFIED (tflink, 16:34:36) * AGREED: 963810 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F19 alpha release criterion when updates with UTF-8 specific characters are available: "The installed system must be able to download and install updates with yum and with the default graphical package manager in all release-blocking desktops." (tflink, 16:41:35) * (963361) pesign currently does not align signature list entries, which will cause shim to fail on newer firmware. (tflink, 16:41:47) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963361 (tflink, 16:41:51) * Proposed Blocker, pesign, NEW (tflink, 16:41:53) * AGREED: 963361 - RejectedBlocker - This doesn't seem to affect enough machines (newer OVMF which is not supported, unknown number of newer firmwares) and disabling secure boot is an acceptable workaround for beta. Thus, this bug is rejected as a blocker for F19 beta (tflink, 16:49:28) * (965101) QXL driver crashes in KVM (i386) (tflink, 16:49:51) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=965101 (tflink, 16:49:51) * Proposed Blocker, xorg-x11-drv-qxl, NEW (tflink, 16:49:51) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=965101#c3 (tflink, 16:52:57) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Install_to_Current_KVM (dan408, 17:03:46) * AGREED: 965101 - RejectedBlocker RejectedFreezeException - While this is a paritial violation of the F19 beta release criterion, it is limited to 32 bit guests, has workarounds (use Cirrus or 64 bit guest) and could reasonably be fixed with an update in most cases. (tflink, 17:08:13) * (962006) Crash when installing a specific btrfs layout with a kickstart (tflink, 17:08:56) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=962006 (tflink, 17:08:59) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, NEW (tflink, 17:09:02) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=962006#c10 (adamw, 17:11:07) * still unclear whether this is user error or not (tflink, 17:11:09) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=962006#c10 (tflink, 17:11:30) * (963958) dialog-warning-symbolic.svg (used as the 'warning triangle' emblem in anaconda) is now grey; if anaconda wants the old orange one, anaconda should ship it (tflink, 17:12:01) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963958 (tflink, 17:12:05) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, NEW (tflink, 17:12:08) * AGREED: 963958 - AcceptedFreezeException - This makes warnings on the hub very non-obvious and a fix would be nice but certainly not required. A tested fix would be considered past F19 beta freeze (tflink, 17:17:34) * (963841) update logo on login screen. (tflink, 17:17:39) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963841 (tflink, 17:17:39) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gdm, ON_QA (tflink, 17:17:39) * AGREED: 963841 - RejectedFreezeException - The logo we have now doesn't pose any legal issues and this could be fixed with an update post-release since gdm doesn't normally show up on livecds. (tflink, 17:23:33) * (961140) g-i-s lets you create a user with no password, but if you do, transition from g-i-s to user session fails and g-i-s re-runs on reboot (tflink, 17:23:51) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=961140 (tflink, 17:23:54) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gnome-initial-setup, ON_QA (tflink, 17:23:56) * this needs more investigation before pulling in, but accepted for now (tflink, 17:34:05) * LINK: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/gnome-initial-setup.git/commit/?h=f19 (tflink, 17:34:28) * AGREED: 961140 - AcceptedFreezeException - This is a pretty nasty bug to hit if you don't add a password to the user in g-i-e, a tested fix would be considered past F19 beta freeze. (tflink, 17:36:29) * (928659) gnome-initial-setup should logout existing user when changing desktop locale (tflink, 17:36:45) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=928659 (tflink, 17:36:48) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gnome-initial-setup, NEW (tflink, 17:36:50) * AGREED: 928659 - RejectedFreezeException - While unfortunate, this is not a severe issue and can be worked around by logging out or restarting after g-i-s runs. (tflink, 17:49:09) * (964828) On EFI: F18 is rendered unbootable after installing F19 (tflink, 17:49:18) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=964828 (tflink, 17:49:21) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, grub2, NEW (tflink, 17:49:24) * AGREED: 964828 - RejectedFreezeException - This is too much of a corner case to justify taking grub changes for this late in the beta cycle. Documentation via CommonBugs is acceptable for Beta (tflink, 17:56:14) * (963098) Left/Right cursor key does not work in the initial conversion state (tflink, 17:56:22) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963098 (tflink, 17:56:24) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, libkkc, ON_QA (tflink, 17:56:27) * AGREED: 963098 - AcceptedFreezeException - This interferes with IME text input on the live images which can't be fixed with updated. The already proposed fix is isolated and would be considered past F19 beta freeze once tested. (tflink, 18:09:14) * (963238) SELinux is preventing lightdm from 'create', 'write', and 'rename' accesses on the file .dmrc.RANDOM (tflink, 18:09:18) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963238 (tflink, 18:09:21) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, lightdm, ON_QA (tflink, 18:09:23) * AGREED: 963238 - AcceptedFreezeException - It appears that the functionality causing the AVC warnings (~/.dmrc) is not used much anymore and can be safely dropped. A tested fix would be considered past F19 beta freeze. (tflink, 18:21:53) * (961446) Review Request: c2esp - CUPS driver for Kodak AiO printers (tflink, 18:21:57) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=961446 (tflink, 18:22:00) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, Package Review, NEW (tflink, 18:22:03) * AGREED: 961446 - RejectedFreezeException - This package is not reviewed yet, nor would it be on the DVD. Thus, any FE designation would not affect the package and the bug is rejected as a Freeze Exception for F19 beta (tflink, 18:25:16) * (963359) Shim should provide a mechanism for \EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI as a fallback on fixed media. (tflink, 18:25:20) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963359 (tflink, 18:25:23) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, shim, NEW (tflink, 18:25:26) * AGREED: 963359 - RejectedFreezeException - While this would be a useful recovery feature, it isn't required and it's too close to go/no-go to be taking shim features past freeze (tflink, 18:31:27) * (927564) F19 release-name â€œSchrÃ¶dingerâ€™s Catâ€ shown as "SchrAÂ¶dingerÃ¢Ã‡Ã–s Cat" on the linux console (tflink, 18:31:37) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927564 (tflink, 18:31:40) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, systemd, ASSIGNED (tflink, 18:31:42) * AGREED: 927564 - RejectedFreezeException - While this does look bad, the currently proposed fixes require changes to vital system components and are not appropriate for Freeze Exceptions. (tflink, 18:37:11) * (958787) X error "AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for gpu driver 0 -1" on iMac12,2 with F19 Beta TC3 when starting GDM (tflink, 18:37:36) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958787 (tflink, 18:37:39) * Proposed Freeze Exceptions, xorg-x11-server, NEW (tflink, 18:37:41) * AGREED: 958787 - RejectedFreezeException - This bug is not clear enough to determine what the fix is at this point and seems to affect a limited subset of hardware. (tflink, 18:41:49) * (964965) gdm should require it's own deps to function. (tflink, 18:41:57) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=964965 (tflink, 18:41:57) * Proposed Freeze Exception, gdm, NEW (tflink, 18:41:57) * AGREED: 964965 - AcceptedFreezeException - This doesn't require any major changes to gdm, just ensuring that its required packages will be pulled in @ build and use time. A tested fix that does not involve touching gdm code or adding packages to the desktop spin would be considered past F19 beta freeze (tflink, 18:45:37) * Open Floor (tflink, 18:52:23) Meeting ended at 18:58:59 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * tflink (280) * adamw (197) * dan408 (147) * nirik (44) * jreznik (21) * brunowolff (20) * zodbot (12) * Viking-Ice (6) * satellit_e (6) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Docs Project Meeting Minutes - 20 May 2013

by Pete Travis

=================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings ==================================================================================================== Meeting started by randomuser at 14:01:46 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-20/fedora_docs.20... . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (randomuser, 14:01:46) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#20_May_2013 (randomuser, 14:06:13) * Follow up on last week's action items (randomuser, 14:06:23) * Docs is considering opening wiki beats up for the next release much earlier (randomuser, 14:09:42) * ACTION: jjmcd to mail about it (randomuser, 14:11:05) * Release Notes / Feature Review (randomuser, 14:11:16) * ACTION: randomuser to mail list about feature update vfad or similar (randomuser, 14:15:59) * Pushing POTs (randomuser, 14:16:23) * ACTION: randomuser to file ticket with transifex re: translators mark docs ready (randomuser, 14:21:48) * LINK: ssh://git.fedorahosted.org/docs/documentation-guide.git (randomuser, 14:44:19) * ACTION: lnovich to start section on tag usage standards in documentation guide (randomuser, 14:45:21) * Release Announcement (randomuser, 14:45:28) * if anyone gets a chance, please work on the release announcement (randomuser, 14:47:42) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F19_Beta_release_announcement (randomuser, 14:47:53) * Idea: repo for outlier content (randomuser, 14:48:04) * Flock (randomuser, 14:55:27) * open floor (randomuser, 14:57:37) Meeting ended at 14:59:23 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jjmcd to mail about it * randomuser to mail list about feature update vfad or similar * randomuser to file ticket with transifex re: translators mark docs ready * lnovich to start section on tag usage standards in documentation guide Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to mail about it * lnovich * lnovich to start section on tag usage standards in documentation guide * randomuser * randomuser to mail list about feature update vfad or similar * randomuser to file ticket with transifex re: translators mark docs ready * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * randomuser (80) * lnovich (33) * Sparks (25) * pkovar (17) * bcotton (11) * jjmcd (5) * zodbot (3) * nb (1) * LoKoMurdoK (1) * Capesteve (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- -- Pete Travis - Fedora Docs Project Leader - 'randomuser' on freenode - immanetize(a)fedoraproject.org

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Fedora Chinese Meeting Minutes (2013-05-17)

by Alick Zhao

Hi all, The IRC meeting minutes tonight are available at the link [1]. Thanks everyone for attending the meeting. In the meeting we talked about FUDCon APAC 2014 bid progress, and FPWiki Zh page updates, offline activities, and L10N. Please review the proposed ideas and actions. The next IRC meeting will be held on next Friday (2013-05-24). Please come and join the discussion if you can! [1]: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-05-17/fedora-zh.2013-05-1... ================== #fedora-zh Meeting ================== Meeting started by endle at 13:02:43 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2013-05-17/fedora-zh.2013-05-1... . Meeting summary --------------- * 点名～ (endle, 13:02:51) * LINK: http://planet.fedora-zh.org/ (endle, 13:14:18) * Fedora Wiki 页面讨论 (zsun, 13:14:23) * LINK: http://planet.fedora-zh.org/ (endle, 13:14:33) * LINK: https://github.com/bbbush/org.fedora-zh.planet/blob/master/config.ini (endle, 13:16:13) * IDEA: 将 planet 的链接从 FZUGCommunicate 里暂时撤掉（邮件列表中进一步讨论） (endle, 13:21:57) * FUDCON APAC 2014 举办申请 (endle, 13:25:21) * ACTION: endle 整理一份针对已有信息的表格 (endle, 13:32:54) * IDEA: 整理一份 Fedora 的宣传资料，用来跟校方协商（在列表中进一步讨论） (endle, 13:33:20) * IDEA: 六月份办一次 FUDCon 筹备的 FAD (alick, 13:44:58) * Fedora19 relparty (endle, 13:47:39) * LINK: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2013-May/021164.html (alick, 13:47:57) * LINK: http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/f-19-ambassadors-tasks.html (alick, 13:49:05) * Hold Sponsored Release Events and Publish Event Reports Tue 2013-07-02 Fri 2013-08-02 (alick, 13:49:17) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F19_Beijing (alick, 13:50:20) * 翻译的相关问题 (endle, 14:01:48) * LINK: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2013-May/014977.html (alick, 14:04:11) Meeting ended at 14:12:32 UTC. Action Items ------------ * endle 整理一份针对已有信息的表格 Action Items, by person ----------------------- * endle * endle 整理一份针对已有信息的表格 * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * endle (63) * alick (37) * zsun (37) * BadGirl (9) * zodbot (8) * CyrusYzGTt (2) * xielingyun__ (0) * MeaCulpa (0) * cswiii (0) * zhashuyu (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Summary/Minutes from today's Fedora Infrastructure meeting (2013-05-16)

by Kevin Fenzi

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2013-05-16) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-16/infrastructure... . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome y'all (nirik, 19:00:03) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. (nirik, 19:02:58) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:06:54) * calendar is adding new calendars all the time, looking good so far. (nirik, 19:07:45) * some freeze break fixes for tagger went in today. (nirik, 19:08:23) * datagrepper is in production and use cases are starting to appear. (nirik, 19:08:55) * new bodhi on monday just before the freeze. (nirik, 19:09:04) * LINK: http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/ (pingou, 19:09:17) * LINK: http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/js/fedora_apps.js this is pretty much the whole app (pingou, 19:14:13) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:28:23) * kernel security update out, rebooted some ciritical machines, will do the rest after freeze. (nirik, 19:29:43) * new storage is coming on line soon, working on getting that working. (nirik, 19:32:28) * ansible web quickstart next week for anyone interested in ansible (nirik, 19:32:54) * LINK: http://www.ansibleworks.com/quickstart/ (nirik, 19:33:15) * LINK: http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ (skvidal, 19:34:48) * Private Cloud status update / discussion (nirik, 19:36:59) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:39:30) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:39:54) * 2013-05-14 to 2013-05-28 BETA infrastructure freeze (nirik, 19:40:51) * 2013-05-19 - bugzilla upgrade. (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-05-28 F19 beta release (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-05-31 end of 1st quarter (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-06-01 nag fi-apprentices (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-06-08 drop inactive apprentices (nirik, 19:40:53) * 2013-06-18 to 2013-07-02 FINAL infrastructure freeze. (nirik, 19:40:54) * 2013-07-01 nag fi-apprentices (nirik, 19:40:56) * 2013-07-02 F19 FINAL release (nirik, 19:40:58) * Flock (nirik, 19:41:49) * LINK: http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/proposals (nirik, 19:42:59) * everyone do submit talks / hackfests / sprints / workshops (nirik, 19:45:17) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:46:42) Meeting ended at 19:56:21 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (119) * skvidal (66) * pingou (61) * threebean (18) * Apsu` (14) * abadger1999 (8) * spot (8) * puiterwijk (7) * zodbot (5) * bitlord (3) * smooge (2) * cyberworm54 (2) * swa_work (2) * lmacken (1) * dgilmore (1) * ricky (0) * mdomsch (0) * CodeBlock (0) -- 19:00:03 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2013-05-16) 19:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 16 19:00:03 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:03 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:00:03 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all 19:00:03 <nirik> #chair smooge skvidal CodeBlock ricky nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean 19:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: CodeBlock abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik ricky skvidal smooge threebean 19:00:08 * skvidal is here 19:00:12 * cyberworm54 is here 19:00:20 * abadger1999 here 19:00:56 * nirik waits for folks to wander in 19:01:05 <dgilmore> hola 19:01:18 * puiterwijk 19:01:21 * pingou 19:01:25 * threebean 19:02:00 * bitlord (idling, listening, want to join :-) 19:02:51 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and start in. 19:02:58 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. 19:03:08 <nirik> any new folks like to say hi, or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:03:35 <cyberworm54> >.> 19:04:06 <bitlord> I want to say hi. (I'm new to fedora, want to contribute, interested in infrastructure stuff, sysadmin stuff, scripting ,....) (but n00b) 19:04:32 <nirik> welcome bitlord. ;) 19:04:39 <bitlord> thanks :-) 19:04:55 <nirik> do ask questions and hang out in our normal channels and I'm sure something will come along for you to work on. 19:04:58 <pingou> welcome bitlord 19:05:39 <Apsu`> Guess I'll say hi. Deciding if I want to invest in the project. I work on Linux infrastructure, systems and networking for a living. Impressed with the Fedora community, mostly coming from Arch Linux (for non-professional interests). 19:05:52 <nirik> welcome Apsu` 19:06:14 <Apsu`> Danke 19:06:21 <pingou> wilkomen Apsu` 19:06:27 <nirik> bitlord / Apsu`: you might look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Apprentice and if thats something you might be interested in, see me after the meeting in #fedora-admin. 19:06:42 <Apsu`> Will take a look. 19:06:47 <nirik> cool. 19:06:54 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:07:03 <nirik> any applications news from this week or upcoming? 19:07:05 <pingou> lots of stuff :) 19:07:09 * nirik notes we are still in freeze 19:07:37 <pingou> threebean: you start :) 19:07:45 <nirik> #info calendar is adding new calendars all the time, looking good so far. 19:07:47 <threebean> I sent in two freeze break requests for tagger. Both have been carried out now and things look stable. I hope to not touch it anymore for a while. ;) 19:08:10 <pingou> datagrepper is in prod 19:08:15 <nirik> #info some freeze break fixes for tagged went in today. 19:08:19 <nirik> #undo 19:08:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x22e0c1d0> 19:08:23 <nirik> #info some freeze break fixes for tagger went in today. 19:08:36 <pingou> I bothered *a lot* threebean for datagrepper (and a little for datanommer) 19:08:44 <lmacken> I pushed out a new bodhi release on monday 19:08:55 <nirik> #info datagrepper is in production and use cases are starting to appear. 19:08:59 <pingou> with some ideas in mind: 1) the fedora-owner-change script I sent about yesterday 19:09:04 <nirik> #info new bodhi on monday just before the freeze. 19:09:15 <pingou> and 2) a little surprise I've been working on as of few weeks ago: 19:09:17 <pingou> http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/ 19:09:20 <pingou> :) 19:09:28 <threebean> pingou++ 19:09:34 <nirik> pingou: quick calendar question: is there a way to get _all_ calendars ical in one link? 19:09:40 <pingou> nirik: yes 19:10:10 <pingou> nirik: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/calendar/ical/ 19:10:16 <pingou> (just don't specify a calendar) 19:10:19 <nirik> pingou: great. thanks. 19:10:33 <nirik> cool. that fedora-news is interesting. Just a collection from fedmsg? 19:10:39 <pingou> nirik: you asked me for that one ;) 19:10:54 <pingou> nirik: for updates, packages and builds yes 19:11:02 <pingou> for planet and fedocal (not there yet) no 19:11:10 <threebean> pingou: it's mobile-friendly, correct? 19:11:24 <pingou> it works fine on my firefox-os and should work fine as well on Android 19:11:28 <pingou> threebean: completely 19:11:51 <pingou> It's pretty much designed to be a (html5) mobile app 19:11:59 <skvidal> okay that fedora-news thing is slick 19:12:03 <nirik> oh nice. 19:12:06 * swa_work late but here 19:12:16 <pingou> w/ local caching so that you can catch up with the planet posts on the subway/train/tunnel 19:12:19 <threebean> when we get the meta information in datagrepper it'll be even better. links to the events will make it off the hook. 19:12:37 <pingou> threebean: +100 :) 19:12:47 * nirik isn't getting the data, it's just refreshing. Probibly a midori/webkit issue. 19:12:52 * skvidal opens it up on his phone 19:13:18 <pingou> I want to bother Ruth to ask her if/where we have a central place for general annoucement 19:13:32 <skvidal> pingou: how does that app work? 19:13:39 <pingou> like stuff about flock should arrive there 19:13:43 <pingou> skvidal: html and js 19:13:55 <skvidal> pingou: no - I mean - how is it populated? 19:14:04 <skvidal> is that the job you were asking about running somewhee? 19:14:07 <skvidal> err somewhere? 19:14:13 <pingou> http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/js/fedora_apps.js this is pretty much the whole app 19:14:37 <skvidal> oh - so it's all happening client-side? 19:14:41 <pingou> skvidal: nope, that job is to send email on the devel list about package ownership change 19:14:45 <pingou> skvidal: yes 19:14:51 <skvidal> pingou: oh that is very attractive 19:14:53 <pingou> nirik: still loading? 19:14:55 <skvidal> pingou: well done 19:15:06 <skvidal> nirik: it's working here in chrome -lemme check ff 19:15:07 <nirik> pingou: yeah, something isn't happy on the midori side. We can debug out of meeting. 19:15:11 <nirik> works in firefox ok 19:15:15 <pingou> skvidal: how does it look on your phone? 19:15:31 <pingou> nirik: ok, sure :) 19:15:38 <skvidal> pingou: looks good 19:15:42 <skvidal> it asks me to 'install' on firefox 19:15:44 <skvidal> which is amusing 19:15:45 <nirik> very nice. will poke around at it more. ;) Thanks pingou 19:16:02 <pingou> skvidal: it's an app, you can install it 19:16:16 <threebean> pingou: put it on github. I want to send PRs ;p 19:16:26 <pingou> threebean: will do :) 19:16:40 <pingou> infra or pypingou? 19:16:46 * threebean suggests infra 19:17:29 <nirik> works fine in ff on my phone too. 19:17:40 <swa_work> yah, nice 19:17:49 <pingou> infra it is then 19:18:31 <nirik> I could see this also being nice for things like flock schedule/info or whatever too. 19:19:09 <nirik> ok, any further apps news? 19:19:11 <pingou> Having a flock app for the schedule would be nice for sure 19:19:18 <pingou> shouldn't be too hard to do either 19:19:40 <nirik> yeah, much nicer to look on your phone than pull out a laptop, or try and read a wiki page in the mobile browser. 19:20:10 <pingou> threebean: https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-news 19:20:22 <nirik> with hyperkitty we could also do lists back and forth, which would be very nice. 19:20:45 <pingou> I have to ask spot if I can use the Fedora logo as icon when installing the app 19:20:54 <pingou> (which I already do but... :) 19:21:02 <skvidal> pingou: https://plus.google.com/117445388364195221637/posts/BDitX5aJ5r9 19:21:12 <pingou> skvidal: <3 19:21:17 <skvidal> that's how it looks on my phone :) 19:21:27 <skvidal> took me a minute to remember how to take a screen shot on the n4 :) 19:21:39 <pingou> skvidal: that's how is supposed to look :) (and does completely on my peak because of a bug ^^) 19:21:40 <threebean> pingou: awesome 19:22:03 <skvidal> spot: you around? 19:22:09 <spot> yes 19:22:13 <skvidal> spot: if so - you should take a look at this thing pingou did 19:22:17 <skvidal> it's kinda pretty 19:22:19 <pingou> so know I can say I didn't get that phone for nothing ^^ 19:22:50 <spot> is this an app for the store, or a web app? 19:22:55 <skvidal> pingou: is there any way to make it fill the space with the little boxes width-wise? 19:23:00 <pingou> spot: and I have to you if I can use the logo :) 19:23:37 <pingou> spot: html5 we can distribute them outside any store 19:23:59 <pingou> and I don't really know if they can be included in the android store 19:24:03 <nirik> so we could publish this in infra for people to just run/install right? 19:24:10 <threebean> apps.fp.o/news 19:24:11 <pingou> nirik: yes 19:24:14 <nirik> (well, when it's all ready, etc) 19:24:15 * spot would feel a tiny bit better about using the logo if it lived on our server 19:24:24 <spot> but sure, you can use it either way 19:24:36 <pingou> spot: I can bother Ryan or Mó for a logo otherwise :) 19:24:42 <skvidal> nirik: afaict there's not much for them to 'run' 19:24:48 <nirik> true. 19:24:56 <skvidal> nirik: if by run you mean 19:24:59 <skvidal> 'download a web page' 19:25:05 <skvidal> :) 19:25:15 <pingou> skvidal: to answer your question yes but I need to find a way to increase these logos, atm it's not looking that nice :/ 19:25:30 <skvidal> pingou: I just opened it on the n7 - that's why I asked 19:25:43 <pingou> skvidal: n7 == tablet? 19:25:49 <nirik> skvidal: well, yeah, or download an 'app' which I guess means "shortcut to your browser running this page" right? 19:26:35 <skvidal> nirik: yes 'app' 19:26:37 <nirik> so, lets explore how we want to do this and what we want to add, etc out of meeting? 19:26:39 <skvidal> pingou: nexus 7 - yes 19:26:52 <nirik> but pretty slick. Kudos pingou 19:27:18 <pingou> thanks :] and thank threebean and ianweller for datagrepper :) 19:27:45 <skvidal> pingou: https://plus.google.com/117445388364195221637/posts/jEGruPjRWoz 19:28:02 <pingou> skvidal: does look less nice :) 19:28:23 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:28:24 <threebean> :) 19:28:46 <nirik> so, on sysadmin side... we have a kernel update pending, we did emerg reboots of some of our critical systems. 19:28:57 <nirik> we should probibly just do all of stg soon too. 19:29:01 <nirik> and the rest after the freeze 19:29:15 <skvidal> nirik: a couple of other updates trickled in between the last update and the kernel emergency 19:29:30 <skvidal> like a new nagios/nagios-common from epel 19:29:39 <skvidal> which fills me with dread about upgrading during a freeze 19:29:43 <nirik> #info kernel security update out, rebooted some ciritical machines, will do the rest after freeze. 19:29:50 <nirik> yeah, agreed. 19:29:53 <skvidal> so I'm likely to ONLY update the kernels rather than a global update 19:30:04 <nirik> I'm fine to hold off until after freeze for anything else. 19:30:07 <skvidal> ok 19:30:16 <abadger1999> Is our policy for cloud boxes and critical updates still "owner of instance is responsible"? 19:30:18 <nirik> but we could do *stg* 19:30:37 <skvidal> nod 19:30:39 <nirik> abadger1999: yeah, currently. we could force terminate everything and redeploy it I guess. 19:30:50 <skvidal> nirik: except for a handful of boxes 19:30:57 <skvidal> nirik: we could force everyone apply this update :) 19:31:08 <skvidal> b/c we have access to all the rest afaik 19:31:51 <nirik> yeah, since this is local only, I am not too worried. we do want to do it sometime... 19:32:03 <skvidal> cool 19:32:28 <nirik> #info new storage is coming on line soon, working on getting that working. 19:32:54 <nirik> #info ansible web quickstart next week for anyone interested in ansible 19:32:58 * nirik digs up link. 19:33:15 <nirik> http://www.ansibleworks.com/quickstart/ 19:33:40 <skvidal> it's on the 22nd iirc 19:33:55 <nirik> yeah. 19:34:10 <nirik> Any other sysadmin type items? 19:34:12 <Apsu`> Interesting. You guys are using (or going to use) Ansible? 19:34:20 <nirik> Apsu`: we are moving to it yeah. 19:34:20 <skvidal> we are using it now 19:34:25 <skvidal> and we are moving toward it more 19:34:34 <Apsu`> Fun. Decided against chef/puppet? 19:34:34 <skvidal> Apsu`: our repos are public 19:34:48 <skvidal> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ 19:34:53 <Apsu`> Cool 19:34:55 <nirik> skvidal / smooge: did you get that kernel box all ansibled yesterday? happy to help further on that... 19:35:22 <skvidal> nirik: I setup a stub group playbook for smooge to work with 19:35:32 <skvidal> nirik: but the short answer is 'mostly' 19:35:37 <nirik> I think we should/could look next at adding in the virthost-comm0*.qa boxes... they should be pretty simple. 19:35:44 <skvidal> I think it needs fas-client added to it 19:36:00 <nirik> I had a fas_client task already setup... but yeah. 19:36:10 <skvidal> nirik: I also had to clean up some of the el6-ish assumptions in our base tasklist :) 19:36:17 <nirik> yeah, good. 19:36:59 <nirik> #topic Private Cloud status update / discussion 19:37:00 <skvidal> made some notes on where it needs to break out 19:37:02 <nirik> anything on clouds? 19:37:12 <nirik> skvidal: cool. I am sure we will need to adjust things as we go some. 19:37:20 <skvidal> not much has changed - the internal discussion over networking is still 'meh' 19:37:29 <smooge> cool 19:37:32 * nirik has not had time to do much on clouds this last week. 19:37:38 <skvidal> nirik: essentially it is this 19:37:40 <nirik> I still do plan to setup grizzley on the other ones. 19:37:57 <smooge> I need help with the next steps 19:38:01 <skvidal> nova on folsom and instances tlaking to each others public ips 19:38:02 <skvidal> are bleah 19:38:09 <skvidal> not likely to improve much 19:38:10 <Apsu`> Btw, I this is specifically what I do for a living. 19:38:20 <Apsu`> Rackspace private cloud team, working on openstack. :) 19:38:35 <nirik> ah ha. ;) 19:38:36 <Apsu`> Worth discussing the issues you're referring to here? 19:38:41 <skvidal> Apsu`: lovely - then maybe you can explain why using public ips - nodes can't talk to each other? 19:38:46 <nirik> sure, happy to. :) 19:38:55 <skvidal> Apsu`: I'll be happy to discuss in copious and painful detail :) 19:39:07 <Apsu`> Probably! 19:39:08 <nirik> yeah, perhaps in #fedora-noc after the meeting? 19:39:12 <Apsu`> Sure. 19:39:24 <nirik> thanks. 19:39:30 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:39:54 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:39:56 <nirik> :) 19:40:00 <nirik> I need to add some more stuff there. 19:40:20 <pingou> this is shorter than I remembered :) 19:40:21 <nirik> the bugzilla upgrade has moved to the 19th 19:40:35 <nirik> yeah 19:40:49 <nirik> here's the info dump: 19:40:51 <nirik> #info 2013-05-14 to 2013-05-28 BETA infrastructure freeze 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-19 - bugzilla upgrade. 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-28 F19 beta release 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-31 end of 1st quarter 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-06-01 nag fi-apprentices 19:40:53 <nirik> #info 2013-06-08 drop inactive apprentices 19:40:54 <nirik> #info 2013-06-18 to 2013-07-02 FINAL infrastructure freeze. 19:40:56 <nirik> #info 2013-07-01 nag fi-apprentices 19:40:58 <nirik> #info 2013-07-02 F19 FINAL release 19:41:00 <nirik> I'll add those all into the calendar moving forward. 19:41:06 <nirik> anything anyone wants to note or schedule? 19:41:49 <nirik> #topic Flock 19:42:01 <nirik> any further thoughts on flock? I submitted 2 things... 19:42:05 <nirik> I know other folks have as well. 19:42:45 <spot> MOAR THINGS. SUBMIT ALL THE THINGS! 19:42:50 <spot> sorry. 19:42:59 <nirik> http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/proposals 19:43:05 <nirik> :) 19:43:17 <nirik> wow. we hit 50. nice. 19:43:18 <pingou> spot: there will be a selection in the submition right? 19:43:37 <skvidal> pingou: I think the plan is for all the talks to be given all at once and whomever is loudest wins 19:43:38 <spot> pingou: yes, there will be a selection committee to review all proposals 19:43:52 <pingou> skvidal: awesome :) 19:44:03 <pingou> spot: cool, so I can add more ideas as they come :) 19:44:03 <skvidal> spot: any news on the hotel? 19:44:23 <spot> skvidal: not yet, Ruth is traveling right now, and she's handling that 19:44:36 <pingou> (flights prices haven't changed since last time :() 19:45:13 <skvidal> spot: thx. 19:45:17 <nirik> #info everyone do submit talks / hackfests / sprints / workshops 19:46:10 <nirik> skvidal: at least you don't have to do a ansible talk, since there's already one. ;) 19:46:24 <skvidal> that's mdehaan 19:46:29 <nirik> yep. 19:46:42 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:46:53 <nirik> any items for open floor? comments? suggestions? 19:47:04 <pingou> we have to check what we do with jenkins 19:47:13 <skvidal> pingou: ? 19:47:18 <pingou> skvidal: login is broken 19:47:33 <skvidal> what happened? 19:47:35 <nirik> oh yeah, we have a fix ready... 19:47:42 <pingou> puiterwijk have a solution but it consists on unpacking a jar, replacing some of the libraries and repacking it 19:47:44 <nirik> just need to work with puiterwijk to get it in ansible 19:47:53 <skvidal> oh 19:47:56 <nirik> yeah, that. 19:47:57 <Apsu`> Ugh. Jenkins woes. 19:47:58 <skvidal> puiterwijk: just yell at me 19:48:06 <skvidal> I can make all those things show up 19:48:09 <Apsu`> Can has travis? Or... anything else really? :P 19:48:27 <pingou> Apsu`: it does the job 19:48:46 <Apsu`> When it decides to not fail horribly, sure. 19:48:47 <puiterwijk> pingou: no, not unpacking 19:48:56 <puiterwijk> just putting them in place 19:49:10 <puiterwijk> skvidal: sure, will contact you after the meeting on that 19:49:17 <skvidal> puiterwijk: okay 19:49:28 <puiterwijk> though I though nirik said he'd handle it last time, but let's do that togethetr 19:49:59 * nirik thought he was going to help you get it into ansible, but didn't have time right then. ;) 19:50:05 <nirik> anyhow, we can get it done. 19:50:30 <puiterwijk> ah no, I remember. you wanted to ask pingou on it 19:50:38 <nirik> could be yeah... ;) 19:50:49 <puiterwijk> let's talk about this after the meeting :) 19:50:52 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute... 19:51:40 <threebean> one thing 19:51:46 <nirik> sure, shoot. 19:51:49 <threebean> relrod asked about adding fedmsg messages to fpaste. 19:52:01 <threebean> should we do it? 19:52:29 <nirik> hum. 19:52:42 <nirik> so, by default pastes are marked 'private' so you have to know the url... 19:52:56 <nirik> the reason we did that was to prevent people from just scraping them all for sensitive info... 19:52:59 * abadger1999 thinks no for private pastes 19:53:06 * threebean agrees with abadger1999 19:53:22 <nirik> no we shouldn't do private pastes? or no we shouldn't do fedmsg? 19:53:40 <abadger1999> no we shouldn't fedmsg enable private pastes. 19:53:51 <abadger1999> Not sure about public pastes 19:53:52 <nirik> yeah. 19:54:08 <nirik> well, public ones already have a rss feed, so fedmsg should be fine. but not sure how much use it would be. 19:54:15 <abadger1999> right 19:54:30 <threebean> yeah. perhaps statistics. maybe relrod has another usecase in mind. 19:54:32 <abadger1999> threebean: do you have a nidea of how you'd summarize the paste? 19:54:43 <threebean> no clue yet 19:55:02 <abadger1999> b/c "Oh look, another /usr/bin/python -tt paste" is probably not that helpful :-) 19:55:05 <threebean> relrod: volunteered to write the patch and all too.. but we decided to bring it to the rest of the team before proceeding. 19:55:18 <nirik> yeah, I would say not to bother unless we have a better use case. 19:55:48 <threebean> I'll link to these meeting notes in the ticket we have for it so we can refer back to it later. thanks! 19:55:53 <nirik> but we can discuss more and see? sure. 19:55:54 <nirik> thanks. 19:56:17 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 19:56:21 <nirik> #endmeeting

10 years, 11 months

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Summary/Minutes from today's irc support sig meeting (2013-05-16)

by Kevin Fenzi

============================================= #fedora-meeting: IRC Support SIG (2013-05-16) ============================================= Meeting started by nirik at 18:00:18 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-16/irc-support-si... . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 18:00:19) * Week in review (nirik, 18:02:20) * ticket #146 [Complaints about an irc OP] slighting ban on #fedora from fenrus02 (nirik, 18:04:39) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/146 (nirik, 18:04:53) * ticket #145 Jordan_u helped me out with installing grub2 and saving my computer and data. (nirik, 18:11:23) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/145 (nirik, 18:11:23) * ticket #147 Feedback should be much easier to give (nirik, 18:13:04) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/147 (nirik, 18:13:06) * ticket #148 Changes and improvements about #fedora and this report system. (nirik, 18:19:59) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/148 (nirik, 18:20:06) * ticket #149 Complaint about fenrus02 in your #fedora IRC channel (nirik, 18:31:28) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/149 (nirik, 18:31:38) * Open Floor (nirik, 18:35:28) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections (nirik, 18:37:38) * LINK: http://flocktofedora.org/ (nirik, 18:37:49) Meeting ended at 18:41:38 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (107) * dcr226 (59) * EvilBob (49) * bitlord (16) * N3LRX (10) * zodbot (3) * Apsu` (2) * mether (2) -- 18:00:18 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2013-05-16) 18:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 16 18:00:18 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:19 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig 18:00:19 <nirik> #topic init process 18:00:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig' 18:00:28 <nirik> who all is around for an irc support sig meeting? 18:00:37 * N3LRX is here. 18:00:46 * EvilBob 18:02:07 <Apsu`> Not sure what it is, but it seemed interesting, so... here? :D 18:02:10 <nirik> ok, I guess lets go ahead and dive on in. 18:02:20 <nirik> #topic Week in review 18:02:38 <nirik> Apsu`: we are the group of folks that work to improve support in #fedora... :) 18:02:51 <nirik> anyone have items for week in review? common bugs or issues we are seeing more of? 18:02:57 <Apsu`> Assumed as much :) 18:03:22 <bitlord> I'm here, just watching :o) (about ticket 148 if it will be discussed here) 18:03:45 <EvilBob> I've nothing for the week in review 18:04:36 <nirik> ok, moving on to tickets then. 18:04:39 <nirik> #topic ticket #146 [Complaints about an irc OP] slighting ban on #fedora from fenrus02 18:04:53 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/146 18:05:08 <nirik> I added my thoughts there a while ago. 18:05:37 <nirik> The only thing I think we might look at: should we change the 'quiet' message to list the time so people freak out less? 18:05:49 <EvilBob> +1 18:06:06 <N3LRX> That's a good idea. +1 18:06:09 <nirik> the downside is that then some people might sit there waiting and start back in again in 15m... 18:06:12 <dcr226> nah, worked fine for the other 999999 people 18:06:21 <nirik> but it might make them less paniced... 18:06:26 <nirik> (some people) 18:06:44 <EvilBob> That user deserved the mute, and later ban(IIRC there was a later ban) they were belligerent. 18:06:53 <dcr226> I dont even think this is a discussion point personally, wrong OS, antagonistic user, CLOSED-Grow-Up-A-Bit 18:06:57 <dcr226> (IMHO) :-) 18:07:12 <EvilBob> Yeah, attention seeking IMO 18:07:38 <nirik> right. 18:07:50 <nirik> so, do we wish to adjust the quiet message? or just leave it? 18:08:17 * nirik is fine either way. 18:08:17 <EvilBob> Fix it! 18:08:25 <dcr226> well, the message does say "you have been quieted for 15 minutes" doesn't it? 18:08:35 <nirik> I don't think it lists the time. 18:08:38 * nirik checks 18:08:45 <EvilBob> If they want to hang out for 15min and start up again... they deserve the resulting ban 18:08:50 <dcr226> oh, ok..my bad, it says "temporary" 18:09:01 <dcr226> yeah, perhaps "15 minutes" should be there 18:09:20 <nirik> @config help supybot.plugins.Quiet.message 18:09:32 <dcr226> Heh..I actually made it a config item? lol 18:09:35 <dcr226> dcr226++ 18:09:36 <nirik> :) 18:09:49 <nirik> ok, so s/temporarily/15 minutes/ ? 18:09:52 <dcr226> +1 here 18:10:04 <N3LRX> +1 18:10:15 <EvilBob> You have been quieted in this channel for 15 minutes. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ 18:10:18 <EvilBob> +1 18:10:43 <nirik> ok. 18:10:50 <nirik> note that you can do quiet with longer values. 18:10:53 <nirik> but we seldom do 18:11:11 <nirik> @config supybot.plugins.Quiet.message You have been quieted in this channel for 15 minutes. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ 18:11:17 <nirik> ok, moving on then... 18:11:19 <dcr226> rock'n'roll 18:11:23 <nirik> #topic ticket #145 Jordan_u helped me out with installing grub2 and saving my computer and data. 18:11:23 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/145 18:11:35 <nirik> kudos to jordan_u... 18:11:46 <EvilBob> Yay Jordan_U 18:11:54 <nirik> is there any way we should tell them that they got a kudo? 18:12:01 * nirik hasn't seen them on in a while. 18:12:06 <dcr226> nirik, @later tell? 18:12:24 <nirik> ha. they are on now. nice. 18:12:27 <dcr226> :) 18:12:33 <nirik> ok, next ticket? or anything else on this? 18:12:38 <EvilBob> I just posted it to #fedora 18:12:48 <nirik> thanks. 18:13:04 <nirik> #topic ticket #147 Feedback should be much easier to give 18:13:06 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/147 18:13:14 <nirik> so, this is kinda a novel. ;) 18:13:43 <nirik> I'm happy to look at simplifying the trac setup to be easier for people to use. 18:13:50 <nirik> not sure how, but willing to look 18:13:52 <dcr226> just a suggestion... CLOSED-TLDR? 18:13:57 <dcr226> (kidding!) 18:14:11 <bitlord> lol 18:14:33 <dcr226> We've discussed a karma system for #fedora before a few times..I think we even trialled it 18:14:38 <dcr226> not sure it was awesome previously 18:14:42 <nirik> it's active in fedbot, but not much used. 18:14:46 <N3LRX> Trac does seem a little confusing the first time you use it. 18:14:51 <nirik> @karma #fedora nirik 18:14:56 <EvilBob> I don't think it's working properly 18:14:56 <bitlord> maybe some FAS feature about rating other users/contributors ("FAS") ? 18:14:58 <nirik> @karma #fedora c 18:15:22 <bitlord> but they must be registered :S 18:15:38 <nirik> EvilBob: it doesn't scrape, you have to specifially do: @evilbob++ or fedbot: EvilBob++ 18:15:48 <dcr226> also, ndroftheline isn't available, and I think their feedback would be important on this subject, so perhaps we can ask in the ticket *when* they are available to discuss? 18:16:05 <nirik> dcr226: sure. and/or keep discussing in ticket until we have action items. 18:16:14 <dcr226> I'd go with that 18:16:29 <mether> nirik, fedora tagger has a scoring system. perhaps karma in irc should be integrated into a single score for the person for all his fedora contributions one way or the other 18:16:41 <dcr226> allow the ticket to mature in to a fine chianti before making final adjustments and rubber-stamping any actions 18:16:49 <N3LRX> +1 for leaving the ticket open for discussion. 18:16:56 <nirik> mether: it could be yeah. I worry about people misusing that tho... 18:17:09 <mether> yeah. possible 18:17:17 <nirik> like "I hate nirik, I'll get 20 of my friends to -- anything they do" 18:17:41 <nirik> or perhaps... we just do not do - karma. ;) 18:17:50 <EvilBob> s/nirik/*Bob* 18:17:51 <dcr226> its also easy to abuse in the other direction 18:17:53 <EvilBob> ;) 18:18:07 <nirik> dcr226: true. 18:18:24 <nirik> anyhow, I think easier feedback is good to a point. 18:18:28 <dcr226> we actually did this dance before we decided that the ticket system was the best option 18:18:35 <EvilBob> Nut up and file a ticket if'n it's important to you 18:18:40 <dcr226> the ticket system is less than ideal...but its not spammy (on the most part) 18:18:43 <nirik> anon or unverified feedback could lead to a bunch of junk 18:19:26 <nirik> anyhow, I think we should continue to discuss in ticket and see if we can have some actions out of the discussion... 18:19:34 <dcr226> +1 yarrr 18:19:59 <nirik> #topic ticket #148 Changes and improvements about #fedora and this report system. 18:20:06 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/148 18:20:11 <nirik> bitlord: this is yours. ;) 18:20:21 <bitlord> I know :D 18:20:25 * bitlord is happy \o/ 18:20:32 <EvilBob> This ticket is a waste of our time 18:20:36 <bitlord> :( 18:20:45 <bitlord> you're evil Bob 18:20:46 <nirik> so, I think on the quiet vs ban, I don't care as long as quiet works. 18:20:50 <nirik> we would need to test it. 18:21:28 <dcr226> eh? seriously? we're getting worried about hurting people's feelings because they spam IRC? 18:21:34 <nirik> I seem to recall it didn't work for some reason. 18:21:53 <nirik> well, I don't know that I care about that, but the quiet seems like it would be 'cleaner' to me if it works. 18:21:58 <EvilBob> bitlord: I'm semi-joking because you are here. 18:22:18 <nirik> and the second part is already moved to infrastructure to fix. ;) 18:22:25 <dcr226> I don't know if the flood control plugin can be altered trivially to utilize quiet instead of /kick 18:22:32 <bitlord> dcr226, no, but they never come back, I think mostly about support, not much about feelings (there is no reason for that, about hurt feelings) 18:22:39 <nirik> I think it can, but I can't recall if there was some reason that didn't work. 18:22:41 <dcr226> bitlord, evidence? 18:22:44 <bitlord> EvilBob, ok :-) 18:22:51 <EvilBob> Kick is effective, most people's clients re-join on kick 18:22:52 <dcr226> every one I've seen booted for flooding, re-joins 18:23:11 <bitlord> dcr226, ok, not everyone, but most a lot of them, I don't have evidence. sorry 18:23:21 <dcr226> no, almost none 18:23:39 <EvilBob> a +m would prevent them from continuing seamlessly where a kick does not 18:23:42 <dcr226> I'm not being belligerant, but seriously...I cannot remember anyone getting up tight over a kick for flooding 18:24:10 <bitlord> ok, I saw that few time, but If you think it should not change, I'm OK with that, I know how to use IRC and don't have any problems. 18:24:12 <dcr226> EvilBob, true 18:24:31 <dcr226> bitlord, bit early to back down yet, we've only 4 minutes in! ;-) 18:24:36 <EvilBob> a +m that is too short in duration would allow the flood to continue with a throttled client 18:24:36 <nirik> it may be that supybot doesn't have a handy set of functions for 'quiet' as thats a freenode thing. 18:24:39 <dcr226> s/we've/we're 18:25:00 <N3LRX> kick, if the client has auto re-join is more effective. They can auto join after being kicked, but quiet would require a length of time so they will not be able to speak until x time has elapsed. 18:25:25 <dcr226> oh wait.. +q *is* better.. 18:25:35 <EvilBob> My android client for example... maybe it's my bouncer... will throttle multiple sends to help prevent flooding 18:26:00 <dcr226> see, when you continue to post in a channel where you have been +q'd, the channel responds with "you cannot post, blah blah"...so they get to taste their own medicine for the remaining lines of the flood! :-) 18:26:11 <nirik> yep. 18:26:16 <bitlord> :-) 18:26:22 <EvilBob> in my case, sending 100 lines to the channel would result in repeated 30sec +m, or solved with a single kick 18:26:53 <nirik> right, some clients might also dump pastes queued up when they got kicked. 18:27:06 <EvilBob> It also would still allow all that flood to reach the channel causing disruption over and over again 18:27:09 <nirik> in fact the change is just removing the kick right? 18:27:24 <nirik> because +b and +q on a person in channel is just exactly the same. 18:27:41 <EvilBob> All clients that I know of flush a flood when kicked 18:27:43 <N3LRX> I think it's effective the way it is. Not perfect, but effective. 18:27:57 <EvilBob> N3LRX: +1 18:28:17 <EvilBob> More effective than a +b or +m 18:28:22 * nirik would be fine playing with it and see if removing the kick works any better for our needs, but I also am fine just leaving it. 18:28:56 <EvilBob> I think the kick is the most effective solution we have 18:29:09 <EvilBob> so Leave the kick 18:29:11 <EvilBob> +1 18:29:18 <nirik> +0 18:30:01 <N3LRX> +1 18:30:02 <EvilBob> If we plan to change it I would suggest extensive testing 18:30:10 <dcr226> HAHAHA 18:30:28 <dcr226> we could randomly kick people from -unreg, see if they get upset 18:30:32 <nirik> ok, sounds like we leave it. If someone wants to do more testing and come back with that info we can revist. 18:30:41 <dcr226> "Now, did you prefer the kick..or the quiet?" 18:30:43 <nirik> dcr226: flood is > 1 line. ;) 18:30:50 <dcr226> LOL 18:31:05 <nirik> anyhow, anything further on this topic? or shall we move on? 18:31:09 <EvilBob> dcr226: I already randomly kick and BAN people from -unreg... 18:31:15 <dcr226> EvilBob, and how do they like it? 18:31:20 <dcr226> nirik, rock'n'roll 18:31:24 <EvilBob> DILLIGAF? 18:31:25 <EvilBob> ;) 18:31:28 <nirik> #topic ticket #149 Complaint about fenrus02 in your #fedora IRC channel 18:31:28 <EvilBob> LOL 18:31:30 <dcr226> LOL!! 18:31:38 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/149 18:31:48 <nirik> so, I am not sure what provoked this user. 18:31:57 <dcr226> must have been bad: [ XXXXXX] Negative 18:32:01 <nirik> I'd like to propose we ask them for details and revisit next week. 18:32:12 <nirik> yeah, but they didn't mention any specific thing. 18:32:28 <EvilBob> Close it, it's a drive by 18:32:37 <nirik> right before that there was a user that fenrus02 exchanged a few questions with and they he said that he did not have time to help further. 18:32:44 <nirik> I didn't see anything rude or offensive in that. 18:32:44 <EvilBob> an actual waste of our time 18:32:53 <dcr226> +1 close it, asking them to re-open with any form of actual evidence other than "I don't like foo" 18:33:09 <nirik> thats fine too. +1 18:33:21 <N3LRX> +1 for close 18:33:23 <dcr226> also, I think we should publicly flog fenrus02 18:33:27 <dcr226> because...well its fun 18:33:29 <EvilBob> The user that filed joined 1/2 way through someone getting help... made a snap judgment... 18:33:32 <nirik> :) 18:33:34 <N3LRX> lol 18:33:38 <EvilBob> +1 close it 18:34:13 <nirik> I also don't get the "I don't like foo, therefore your entire project and community is horrible and I will tell everyone to avoid it" for one foo? really? 18:34:21 <nirik> but then people do that all the time sadly. 18:34:40 <nirik> "I installed fedora, but I didn't like the default wallpaper, so I switched to slackware" 18:35:07 <dcr226> I do that with pubs 18:35:10 <dcr226> (wallpaper) 18:35:22 <nirik> ha. 18:35:28 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 18:35:35 <nirik> any items for open floor? comments? suggestions? 18:35:55 <nirik> or shall we just have dcr226 buy us all a drink at his pub now? ;) 18:35:58 <EvilBob> ELECTIONS! 18:36:07 <bitlord> O_o 18:36:17 * dcr226 gets his hand in his pockets 18:36:19 <EvilBob> rbergeron: Get well soon! 18:36:32 <nirik> yeah, elections are coming up. Please do everyone vote! 18:36:34 <dcr226> oh wait...the wallpaper is crap in here, lets burn it to the ground and move to the next pub! 18:36:49 <EvilBob> Promote the crap out of the elections 18:36:51 <nirik> meeting from a pub? dcr226++ 18:36:57 <dcr226> lol 18:37:11 <EvilBob> also FLOCK 18:37:24 <dcr226> ...but use protection 18:37:29 <dcr226> oh wait 18:37:34 <EvilBob> That also 18:37:37 <EvilBob> and... 18:37:38 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections 18:37:39 <EvilBob> Remember people early detection of breast cancer is the closest thing we have to a cure. Guys, remind your Girl to check, Girls... check the girls! 18:37:49 <nirik> http://flocktofedora.org/ 18:38:15 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone. 18:38:24 <nirik> oh, would someone like to go close tickets? 18:38:29 <nirik> otherwise I could do it later... 18:38:34 <EvilBob> Oh, any hickups with moving fpaste to <whateverthelongURLisatFedoraProject>? 18:38:46 <bitlord> anyone can close them? 18:38:58 <dcr226> fpaste.org is running sticky-notes now, I guess there will be a patch to put it back soon 18:39:12 <nirik> EvilBob: not that I have seen. Please do report them if you see any tho 18:39:22 <nirik> bitlord: yep. ;) 18:39:25 <nirik> dcr226: ? 18:39:30 <EvilBob> Just remembered that that happened this past week 18:39:32 <nirik> fpaste is pointed to paste.fedoraproject.org 18:39:42 <nirik> it's the same one. :) just different name 18:39:42 <dcr226> nirik, fpaste.org is running sticky notes...oh...right 18:39:52 * dcr226 didn't see the 301 18:39:58 <dcr226> carry on! :) 18:40:23 <bitlord> nirik, hm, interesting, any special procedure? 18:40:36 <nirik> There's been one spammer so far, but I quashed them pretty quick. 18:40:58 <nirik> bitlord: not really. Just add a comment "we discussed this in the 2013-05-16 meeting, thanks for your feedback" 18:40:59 <EvilBob> nirik: I'll take the tickets tonight if you don't do it 18:41:07 <nirik> ok, cool. 18:41:09 <dcr226> fpaste spammer? huh, I thought it had spam protection 18:41:21 <dcr226> but yeah, being a spam ninja is fun also 18:41:22 <EvilBob> I'm going to the park and library now... 18:41:29 <nirik> it does, this was link spam junk that got thru. it's blocked now. ;) 18:41:34 <dcr226> ah 18:41:35 <nirik> anyhow, thanks for coming everyone. 18:41:38 <nirik> #endmeeting

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i18n meeting summary (2013-05-16)

by Akira TAGOH

===================== #fedora-meeting: i18n ===================== Meeting started by tagoh_ at 06:02:24 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-16/i18n.2013-05-1... . Meeting summary --------------- * agenda and roll call (tagoh_, 06:02:25) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2013-05-16 (tagoh_, 06:02:26) * Upcoming schedule (tagoh_, 06:07:46) * 2013-05-28 Beta Release (tagoh_, 06:07:47) * 2013-06-18 Final Change Deadline (tagoh_, 06:07:47) * 2013-07-02 Fedora 19 Final Release (tagoh_, 06:07:47) * Outstanding topic (tagoh_, 06:10:42) * #19: gnu-free-fonts issue for Indic (tagoh_, 06:10:42) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/19 (tagoh_, 06:10:43) * Open Floor (tagoh_, 06:16:26) Meeting ended at 06:22:09 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * tagoh_ (31) * pravins (9) * zodbot (4) * mfabian (1) * dramsey (1) * paragan (1) * anish_ (1) * fujiwara_ (1) * epico (1) * juhp (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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meetingminutes May 2013