9:15 a.m.
Hi all,
I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best suit
the needs of audio users.
Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it doesn't
really quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering over
KDE/XFCE, but the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor)
setup I'm using now seems to be winning.
The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor is
not in the repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is under
heavy development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as the
default desktop for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever decide to
endorse a Razor spin we could leverage off their efforts as well.
Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
Brendan
[1]
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
10:05 a.m.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Brendan Jones wrote:
Hi all,
I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best suit the
needs of audio users.
Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it doesn't really
quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering over KDE/XFCE, but
the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor) setup I'm using now
seems to be winning.
The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the components
to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor is not in the
repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is under heavy
development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as the default desktop
for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever decide to endorse a Razor spin
we could leverage off their efforts as well.
Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
Brendan
[1]
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
Experience says, desktop environment (DE) and text editor preference
discussions can easily shift into religious debates. Frankly I haven't
tried Gnome3, but I always found Gnome2 so counter-intuitive that I
doubt I will ever bother installing Gnome3.
I have a very subjective tendency towards using Qt based environments,
perhaps because I code in Qt. I will take a look at what you proposed,
as it seems interesting.
On the other hand, I have a feeling that whoever spends the most
effort to build the spin, gets the choose the default DE. At least
this is the way things usually go in the free software world.
Best,
Orcan
11:53 a.m.
On Feb 11, 2012 6:05 PM, "Orcan Ogetbil" <oget.fedora(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Brendan Jones wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best suit
the
> needs of audio users.
>
> Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it doesn't
really
> quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering
over
KDE/XFCE, but
> the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor) setup
I'm using
now
> seems to be winning.
>
> The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components
> to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor is not
in the
> repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is under heavy
> development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as the default
desktop
> for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever decide to endorse a
Razor
spin
> we could leverage off their efforts as well.
>
> Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
>
> Brendan
>
> [1]
>
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
> [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
Experience says, desktop environment (DE) and text editor preference
discussions can easily shift into religious debates. Frankly I haven't
tried Gnome3, but I always found Gnome2 so counter-intuitive that I
doubt I will ever bother installing Gnome3.
I have a very subjective tendency towards using Qt based environments,
perhaps because I code in Qt. I will take a look at what you proposed,
as it seems interesting.
On the other hand, I have a feeling that whoever spends the most
effort to build the spin, gets the choose the default DE. At least
this is the way things usually go in the free software world.
Best,
Orcan
Some people will prefer Gnome, others KDE, others Xfce, etc. I don't think
there is a DE that's best for audio users. So I don't see why we should
make a spin with a different DE than the one the Fedora community has
chosen for the default LiveCD.
12:05 p.m.
On 02/11/2012 06:53 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
On Feb 11, 2012 6:05 PM, "Orcan Ogetbil"
<oget.fedora(a)gmail.com
<mailto:oget.fedora@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Brendan Jones wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best
suit the
> > needs of audio users.
> >
> > Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it
doesn't really
> > quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering over
KDE/XFCE, but
> > the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor) setup I'm
using now
> > seems to be winning.
> >
> > The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components
> > to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor is not in the
> > repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is under heavy
> > development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as the
default desktop
> > for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever decide to endorse a
Razor spin
> > we could leverage off their efforts as well.
> >
> > Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
> >
> > Brendan
> >
> > [1]
> >
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
> > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
>
> Experience says, desktop environment (DE) and text editor preference
> discussions can easily shift into religious debates. Frankly I haven't
> tried Gnome3, but I always found Gnome2 so counter-intuitive that I
> doubt I will ever bother installing Gnome3.
>
> I have a very subjective tendency towards using Qt based environments,
> perhaps because I code in Qt. I will take a look at what you proposed,
> as it seems interesting.
>
> On the other hand, I have a feeling that whoever spends the most
> effort to build the spin, gets the choose the default DE. At least
> this is the way things usually go in the free software world.
>
> Best,
> Orcan
Some people will prefer Gnome, others KDE, others Xfce, etc. I don't
think there is a DE that's best for audio users. So I don't see why we
should make a spin with a different DE than the one the Fedora community
has chosen for the default LiveCD.
Well, I think it really depends on what we are trying to achieve.
Personally I think the smaller we can make the image the better. I
haven't taken any real measurements yet but perhaps the others who
walked down this road before have a better idea of which desktop
inflicts the biggest storage footprint? Obviously anaconda will allow
anyone to pull in whatever they want at install time, but I think its
important to be able to showcase the software selection in a live CD.
That restricts space somewhat.
Older systems will also benefit from using a somewhat lighter desktop.
This is all just my opinion ...
Brendan
6:16 a.m.
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Brendan Jones wrote:
Older systems will also benefit from using a somewhat lighter
desktop.
This is all just my opinion ...
I have an "older system" and use LXDE as my desktop.
My current installation is based on the Fedora 16 LXDE LiveCD spin. After
that I completed it with Audio/MIDI stuff from the Fedora, Rpmfusion, and
PlanetCCRMA repos. I also removed and/or replaced some components I did
not need or like.
A dedicated Fedora Audio spin would be nice to get started, whatever DE is
choosen, and everyone will stille have complete freedom to personalize his
setup by installing any other desktop.
--
MT
12:54 p.m.
On 02/11/2012 05:05 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
..
On the other hand, I have a feeling that whoever spends the most
effort to build the spin, gets the choose the default DE. At least
this is the way things usually go in the free software world.
Doesn't have to
be that way. Most of what I do tends to be driven by
purely selfish motives. However it would be nice to know that I'm
pleasing more than one person ;) I mean anyone can create a kickstart
file right?
Best,
Orcan
4:47 p.m.
IMHO we should use a DE that uses as little resources as possible. I think
it would be reasonable to try to aim for a <10ms lag for the spin on most
systems. And on some of the older ones, that may just not be possible with
some of the bulkier desktop enviornments. Obviously we won't be able to
help everyone have the apps run like they were in a Pro Audio studio, but
we should try, within reason, to free up as much resources as possible to
leave room to run samples and effects. But that's just my own 2 cents.
On the flipside, I wonder how hard it would be, to do a multiple desktop
disk like the recent Fedora releases have been. Like having a performance
mode, and a "shiny" one.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Brendan Jones
<brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com>wrote:
On 02/11/2012 05:05 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
..
>
> On the other hand, I have a feeling that whoever spends the most
> effort to build the spin, gets the choose the default DE. At least
> this is the way things usually go in the free software world.
>
Doesn't have to be that way. Most of what I do tends to be driven by
purely selfish motives. However it would be nice to know that I'm pleasing
more than one person ;) I mean anyone can create a kickstart file right?
> Best,
> Orcan
>
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music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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6:04 a.m.
Brendan,
On 2012-02-12 02:15, Brendan Jones wrote:
Hi all,
I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best
suit the needs of audio users.
Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it doesn't
really quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering over
KDE/XFCE, but the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor)
setup I'm using now seems to be winning.
More details? I have been pretty happy with XFCE but this sounds
interesting.
The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor
is not in the repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is
under heavy development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as
the default desktop for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever
decide
to endorse a Razor spin we could leverage off their efforts as well.
Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
My background is in science and technology but I am spending increasing
amounts of time on music and singing so I find it is a steep learning
curve with all the sound related software (I ditched PulseAudio and
settled on plain Alsa). A new, lightweight spin focusing specifically
on audio would be very interesting for me.
Regards,
Phil.
Brendan
[1]
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
_______________________________________________
music mailing list
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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
--
Philip Rhoades
GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
E-mail: phil(a)pricom.com.au
5:20 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Greetings:
There have already been a lot of good comments on this topic, and I
agree with many of them. But I'd like to point out two things:
1.) It doesn't really matter which desktop you choose. Lots of people
have been saying this. Choose what seems most reasonable, and
everybody will "re-choose" anyway---no big deal.
2.) There are a couple of reasons to choose Razor-qt as the default
for this spin. Not many people have been saying this. Some have
mentioned that it's good to have a "lightweight" DE as default...
true. Also, because an often-used tool (QjackCtl) is programmed in Qt,
you'll be reusing libraries already in memory. This may be negligible,
I don't know. But another advantage to using Razor-qt is that we'd be
helping out a relatively new project, getting it into the Fedora
repository, and giving it a prominent place in the distribution. We
have to think about our primary task first, but if we can use this
task to help other projects develop, why not? Open-source is about
helping each other (Friends).
Christopher.
On 02/11/2012 10:15 AM, Brendan Jones wrote:
Hi all,
I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best
suit the needs of audio users.
Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it
doesn't really quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been
hovering over KDE/XFCE, but the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of
xfce4/qt-razor) setup I'm using now seems to be winning.
The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse.
Razor is not in the repos yet but there is talk of including it and
it is under heavy development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be
used as the default desktop for an audio spin? If the desktop team
ever decide to endorse a Razor spin we could leverage off their
efforts as well.
Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
Brendan
[1]
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://TI_Eugene://QtDesktop/Fe...
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Razor-qt_Spin
_______________________________________________ music mailing list
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1:36 p.m.
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On 11/02/12 16:15, Brendan Jones wrote:
Hi all,
I've been thinking about what kind desktop environment would best suit
the needs of audio users.
Since the Gnome 3 release I've kind of abandoned GNOME as it doesn't
really quite gel with my workflow. Since then I've been hovering over
KDE/XFCE, but the latest mongrel openbox (mixture of xfce4/qt-razor)
setup I'm using now seems to be winning.
The qt razor project seems really exciting [1] - I've found the
components to be really quite mature but alas a little sparse. Razor
is not in the repos yet but there is talk of including it and it is
under heavy development [2]. I'm wondering if razor could be used as
the default desktop for an audio spin? If the desktop team ever decide
to endorse a Razor spin we could leverage off their efforts as well.
Jus thinking aloud - let me know what you think
In my eyes, Cinnamon looks like a good alternative. Gives you GNOME3 +
(in my view) a more sane DE suitable for a laptop. But I don't know how
lightweight it is. That would also be a criteria for me, though.
However, what looks more eye-candyish, often seems to get more attention
by creative users. And music is about creativity, isn't it? :)
<http://www.webupd8.org/2012/01/install-cinnamon-on-fedora-or-opensuse.htm...
Kind regards,
David Sommerseth
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4:52 a.m.
Also keep in mind that Fedora Installer (Anaconda) needs at least 768MB RAM
to work these days. So choosing a lightweight DE for old machines should
not be a first priority because a user with an old machine won't be able to
install it in the first place ;)
Choosing a DE which needs less space is a valid argument indeed, although i
have the feeling that most people use usb sticks for live images nowadays,
so having an audio spin >700MB is not that bad.
--
Nikos Roussos
about <http://autoverse.net/>
6:40 a.m.
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On 16/02/12 11:52, Nikos Roussos wrote:
Also keep in mind that Fedora Installer (Anaconda) needs at least
768MB RAM to work these days. So choosing a lightweight DE for old
machines should not be a first priority because a user with an old
machine won't be able to install it in the first place ;)
Choosing a DE which needs less space is a valid argument indeed,
although i have the feeling that most people use usb sticks for live
images nowadays, so having an audio spin >700MB is not that bad.
Fair enough argument. But using a lightweight DE is not really
comparable to the installer requirements.
As music applications needs most of the resources, samples and sound
processing being really resource intensive, it makes sense to have as
lightweight DE as possible. This is to give the music/sound applications
as much resources as possible. It would be a pity if the DE would eat up
30% of RAM, if you haves several gigabytes of sound samples to process.
Or a DE which eats up CPU cycles giving you nice pop-ups while doing a
live performance under heavier CPU load (due to softsynths, etc).
kind regards,
David Sommerseth
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7:23 a.m.
On 02/16/2012 11:52 AM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
Also keep in mind that Fedora Installer (Anaconda) needs at least
768MB
RAM to work these days. So choosing a lightweight DE for old machines
should not be a first priority because a user with an old machine won't
be able to install it in the first place ;)
Choosing a DE which needs less space is a valid argument indeed,
although i have the feeling that most people use usb sticks for live
images nowadays, so having an audio spin >700MB is not that bad.
--
Nikos Roussos
about <http://autoverse.net/>
Just as a guide, I added the following packages below to an F17 LXDE
x86_64 Live CD. Totals was 718M. LXDE without these packages is 541M.
The same kickstart file on F16 was 816M, due to frescobaldi pulling in
KDE (this kickstart was not looking at the updates repo).
(NOTE: pulseaudio and a bunch of fonts are removed)
# fedora audio
multimedia-menus
# alsa / jack / transport
jack-audio-connection-kit
qjackctl
jackctlmmc
a2jmidid
alsa-firmware
alsa-plugins-jack
alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
alsa-tools
alsa-tools-firmware
alsa-utils
alsamixergui
# midi
arpage
qmidiarp
timidity++
seq24
# DAWs
ardour
rosegarden
muse
# notation / editors
frescobaldi
swami
lilypond
audacity
# synths / samplers
zynaddsubfx
fluidsynth
qsynth
#ams
bristol
hydrogen
# guitar effects
guitarix
rakarrack
# samplers /
sooperlooper
audacious
# plugins
calf
lv2-EQ10Q-plugins
lv2-abGate
lv2-avw-plugins
lv2-c++-tools
lv2-fil-plugins
lv2-invada-plugins
lv2-kn0ck0ut
lv2-ll-plugins
lv2-mdaEPiano
lv2-swh-plugins
lv2-ui
lv2-vocoder-plugins
lv2-zynadd-plugins
lv2core
lv2dynparam
slv2
ladspa
ladspa-amb-plugins
ladspa-autotalent-plugins
ladspa-blop-plugins
ladspa-cmt-plugins
ladspa-fil-plugins
ladspa-mcp-plugins
ladspa-rev-plugins
ladspa-swh-plugins
ladspa-tap-plugins
ladspa-vco-plugins
dssi
fluidsynth-dssi
hexter-dssi
nekobee-dssi
whysynth-dssi
xsynth-dssi
4454
days inactive
4459
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Brendan Jones -
Brian Monroe -
Christopher Antila -
David Sommerseth -
Martin Tarenskeen -
Nikos Roussos -
Orcan Ogetbil -
Philip Rhoades