I'm building my own audio spin (https://github.com/znmeb/AlgoCompSynth), but I'd like to start testing the "official" Fedora version. Is the kickstart file on line somewhere? P.S.: I'm having a lot of crashes in the interactions between Rosegarden, QJackCtl and LASH. Is there something obvious I need to know about getting this stuff running?

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Brendan Jones <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > On 09/03/2012 07:40 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: >> >> I'm building my own audio spin >> (https://github.com/znmeb/AlgoCompSynth), but I'd like to start >> testing the "official" Fedora version. Is the kickstart file on line >> somewhere? >> >> P.S.: I'm having a lot of crashes in the interactions between >> Rosegarden, QJackCtl and LASH. Is there something obvious I need to >> know about getting this stuff running? >> > Submit bugs (if you haven't already - if you have link them here) for the > crashes. The ABRT isn't working properly - I'll have to submit them manually. > > The kickstart can be found in the music creation git repo [1]. > > I have to ask though, why create a separate audio spin? Perhaps we can > accommodate your requirements and join forces. We need all the help we can > get. I started this project before I knew there was an official audio spin. I volunteered to join the project on the Wiki page. So I'm in. ;-) > > From your bill of materials, all of this is should be available in Fedora > proper by F18 release (CCRMA's supercollider and puredata are on my list to > move into Fedora). IF there is anything else you need please add it to the > wishlist. We also need extra packagers, so if you would like to maintain > some of the stuff that you need which is not in Fedora we'll get you > sponsored as a maintainer ASAP. Is there a quick start on the packaging guidelines / tool set? I'm coming from openSUSE where they have this huge automated tool set. The ones I want packaged most are Impro-Visor and Iannix. sfront is very low priority; I'm the only one I know that's *ever* used it. Slippery Chicken looks like an easy fit on top of the Planet CCRMA Lisp tools, but it's been a couple of years since I did anything with Lisp.

On 09/03/2012 08:16 AM, Brendan Jones wrote: > > On 09/03/2012 08:03 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Brendan Jones >> <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>> On 09/03/2012 07:40 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm building my own audio spin >>>> (https://github.com/znmeb/AlgoCompSynth), but I'd like to start >>>> testing the "official" Fedora version. Is the kickstart file on line >>>> somewhere? >>>> >>>> P.S.: I'm having a lot of crashes in the interactions between >>>> Rosegarden, QJackCtl and LASH. Is there something obvious I need to >>>> know about getting this stuff running? >>>> >>> Submit bugs (if you haven't already - if you have link them here) for >>> the >>> crashes. >> >> >> The ABRT isn't working properly - I'll have to submit them manually. >> >>> >>> The kickstart can be found in the music creation git repo [1]. >>> >>> I have to ask though, why create a separate audio spin? Perhaps we can >>> accommodate your requirements and join forces. We need all the help >>> we can >>> get. >> >> >> I started this project before I knew there was an official audio spin. >> I volunteered to join the project on the Wiki page. So I'm in. ;-) >> >>> >>> From your bill of materials, all of this is should be available in >>> Fedora >>> proper by F18 release (CCRMA's supercollider and puredata are on my >>> list to >>> move into Fedora). IF there is anything else you need please add it >>> to the >>> wishlist. We also need extra packagers, so if you would like to maintain >>> some of the stuff that you need which is not in Fedora we'll get you >>> sponsored as a maintainer ASAP. >> >> >> Is there a quick start on the packaging guidelines / tool set? I'm >> coming from openSUSE where they have this huge automated tool set. The >> ones I want packaged most are Impro-Visor and Iannix. sfront is very >> low priority; I'm the only one I know that's *ever* used it. Slippery >> Chicken looks like an easy fit on top of the Planet CCRMA Lisp tools, >> but it's been a couple of years since I did anything with Lisp. > > > The packaging guidelines are pretty thorough [1]. There's also a packing > mailing list which can field most questions that you may have. We also > have the fedora-review tool which is an invaluable tool in checking that > a package meets the guidelines. > > Yeah, lets get them all in. To me, the spin is kind of a means to end. > An audio spin will pull more interest Fedora's way in terms of audio, > and hopefully that will attract users and package maintainers. My end > goal is to have all useful audio packages in Fedora. > > Having said that, there's obviously some projects which cannot be > including due to Fedora's licensing restrictions, but that can be > mitigated to a certain extent by promoting the Fedora Musicians guide > which has very clear instructions on how to enable CCRMA and RPMFusion. > > The low-latency kernel is another beast - the kernel team currently have > no interest in maintaining an RT patched kernel - they might, if we > could provide them with very clear and concise examples of how the CCRMA > kernel outperforms the stock Fedora one. Without that they will show no > interest. We are also trying to mitigate this as well - the later > kernels have introduced a lot of the RT patches > 2.31 - the audio spin > adds threadirqs to the kernel command line enabling priority setting of > soft IRQs, and we have added CCRMA's rtirq package into Fedora - we are > hoping that this is sufficient for most use cases. > > Pick one of the packages that are missing from both CCRMA and Fedora, > check that it has a valid license [2] and follow the steps here to > become a maintainer [3]. Welcome aboard! > > [1] fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main#Good_Licenses > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > music mailing list > music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music I would like to also welcome you in to the audio group :) I'm one of the co-maintainers for the audio spin (I worked on it for Google Summer of code). I looked at Iannix and impro-visor. I didn't undersant much of the Iannix source code, so i wouldn't even know where to start if I was going to package it. I'm willing to package improvisor for Fedora, unless you want to give it a go yourself (In which case, i would be happy to assist you). It looks like an awesome program too, it's something i have wanted to have has a program for several years. If there are any questions, don't hesitate to any anyone of us :) -- Jørn Lomax ex-GSoC student Fedora Audio Spin CS student University of Tromsø _______________________________________________ music mailing list music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music

I would like to also welcome you in to the audio group :) I'm one of the co-maintainers for the audio spin (I worked on it for Google Summer of code). I looked at Iannix and impro-visor. I didn't undersant much of the Iannix source code, so i wouldn't even know where to start if I was going to package it. I'm willing to package improvisor for Fedora, unless you want to give it a go yourself (In which case, i would be happy to assist you). It looks like an awesome program too, it's something i have wanted to have has a program for several years. If there are any questions, don't hesitate to any anyone of us :)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3 September 2012 08:16:02 Brendan Jones wrote: > Having said that, there's obviously some projects which cannot be > including due to Fedora's licensing restrictions, but that can be > mitigated to a certain extent by promoting the Fedora Musicians guide > which has very clear instructions on how to enable CCRMA and RPMFusion. The Musicians' Guide does do this, but it is absolutely not supposed to. Glad that you reminded me though, because I can remove any reference to RPM Fusion, since it was only needed for Qtractor. SuperCollider will make it into F18, so I'll update that too. This means the only part relying on PlanetCCRMA at Home will be about installing the realtime kernel--something else we're not supposed to endorse. What we can and should do is provide instructions for third-party repositories on the wiki, and use the Musicians' Guide to refer readers to the relevant wiki pages. So if somebody's interested in copy-and-pasting from the Guide into the wiki, we can follow all the rules and have the best of everything. I mean, we can avoid officially endorsing third-party kernels while still showing users how to install them. BTW: the Musicians' Guide still needs help, and I can't do it. Visit this link http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/M... ... and see whether what it says will be true for Fedora 18, then report your findings to this mailing list. I'll update that draft version when I can. Any help is greatly appreciated, even simple typos, confusing sentences, or screenshots of more recent software versions. Christopher. _______________________________________________ music mailing list music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music

Second note on the Musician's Guide: there's nothing there about DSSI, LADSPA or LV2. Should there be? How about Open Sound Control?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 4 September 2012 08:59:25 David Timms wrote: > On 04/09/12 04:19, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > > Second note on the Musician's Guide: there's nothing there about > > DSSI, LADSPA or LV2. Should there be? How about Open Sound > > Control? > Would these plugin / enhancements be better covered in an "Advanced" > Guide, to keep the current one to cover a lot of the basics ? > > Just a thought.. > > David. Plugins are certainly an advanced topic, but there are a number of other advanced topics already addressed. Frankly, if we accumulate enough content for two documents, and we have to publish as many Guides for music software as for virtualization software, that's a good thing. So, Edward (Ed) Borasky, if you write it on the wiki, I'll copy-and-paste into an official Guide, and put your name on the cover. Except I won't, because I'll put "Fedora Project Contributors" or something like that... but you get the point.

Christopher. _______________________________________________ music mailing list music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3 September 2012 08:16:02 Brendan Jones wrote: > Having said that, there's obviously some projects which cannot be > including due to Fedora's licensing restrictions, but that can be > mitigated to a certain extent by promoting the Fedora Musicians guide > which has very clear instructions on how to enable CCRMA and RPMFusion. The Musicians' Guide does do this, but it is absolutely not supposed to. Glad that you reminded me though, because I can remove any reference to RPM Fusion, since it was only needed for Qtractor.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 5 September 2012 08:19:26 Brendan Jones wrote: > On 09/03/2012 07:37 PM, Christopher Antila wrote: >> On 3 September 2012 08:16:02 Brendan Jones wrote: >>> Having said that, there's obviously some projects which cannot be >>> including due to Fedora's licensing restrictions, but that can be >>> mitigated to a certain extent by promoting the Fedora Musicians guide >>> which has very clear instructions on how to enable CCRMA and RPMFusion. >> >> The Musicians' Guide does do this, but it is absolutely not supposed to. Glad >> that you reminded me though, because I can remove any reference to RPM >> Fusion, since it was only needed for Qtractor. > > I mean really? If we only include a shortcut to the guide in the > spin(ie. not package it), can we leave the CCRMA repo instructions in > with a massive disclaimer? I for one would not be using Fedora if it > wasn't for CCRMA and I know a lot of others feel the same way. This isn't related to Fedora Jam. Official Fedora documentation is not supposed to endorse or have instructions for third-party software repositories. That's why, for example, the instructions to install Adobe Flash or MP3 support are on the wiki, and not in the User Guide. The justification here is simple: we can't support software we don't provide. You can't report a bug for the nvidia drivers on the Red Hat Bugzilla; they'll ask you to report it to RPM Fusion, who will probably ask you to report it to nvidia, who will probably say "too bad." We don't want to appear to support somebody else's software when we actually can't. In this instance, the software in Planet CCRMA at Home is also FOSS software, so I made myself an exception without asking anybody. The fact remains, this content should not be in the Guide, and as soon as I can remove it, I will. Now that we have Qtractor, there's no need for RPM Fusion. When we hopefully one day have a compelling alternative for all the Planet CCRMA software, there's no need for that documentation, and I'll take it out too. I might change my mind later (not for Fedora 18), but as long as Fedora doesn't offer a realtime kernel, the Musicians' Guide will retain instructions to use the kernel from CCRMA.

... The bureaucracy does shit me to tears sometimes though. Apart from CCRMA's kernel there is only the *sampler packages which can never be in Fedora, and that's fine.

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On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Christopher Antila <crantila(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 6 September 2012 12:58:55 Brendan Jones wrote: >> ... >> >> The bureaucracy does shit me to tears sometimes though. Apart from >> CCRMA's kernel there is only the *sampler packages which can never be in >> Fedora, and that's fine. > > I don't even want to start thinking about how you thought of that > metaphor... but in a couple of releases, maybe we should start to > consider what's involved in asking RelEng to support another kernel > version, or see how the Spin turns out, and contemplate moving to a > Remix. What's the difference between a respin and a remix?

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On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Christopher Antila <crantila(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: >> > I don't even want to start thinking about how you thought of that >> > metaphor... but in a couple of releases, maybe we should start to >> > consider what's involved in asking RelEng to support another kernel >> > version, or see how the Spin turns out, and contemplate moving to a >> > Remix. >> >> What's the difference between a respin and a remix? > > A "spin" is a version of Fedora produced, supported, and endorsed by the > Fedora community. Basically, any derivative that meets those requirements > could be a spin. > > A "remix" could be anything based on Fedora. For instance, Kororaa Linux > is a remix because the RPM Fusion repository (among others) is/are > enabled by default. Red Hat Enterprise Linux and its derivatives are also > technically Fedora remixes. > > As far as I know, Fedora currently allows only one kernel per processor > architecture, so if we want to use a full realtime kernel, we'll need to > produce a remix. Ah ... but if the real-time kernel was in the F18 repositories and a respin only used it and all the tools worked with it, the collection could be a respin?

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On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Brendan Jones <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > The kickstart can be found in the music creation git repo [1]. > [1] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=music-creation.git;a=summary Ah - it seems there are two projects, one based on LXDE (music-creation) and one based on KDE (fedora-jam). In my own project, I went from LXDE to KDE to GNOME, and I'm staying with GNOME until I get this release done. Are there "always" going to be two separate Fedora "music / audio" respins, or does all this magic get collapsed together in the near future? And is it possible, given that we're talking DVD-size media, that we could have KDE, GNOME, XFCE and LXDE desktops *all* available to the user? I really like KDE, but every time I try to use it, I find annoyances that far outweigh its advantages and I end up dropping back to GNOME or LXDE. > _______________________________________________ > music mailing list > music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Jørn Lomax <northlomax(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > The music creation is depreciated and has not been updated since 2010. I > just didn't feel like i should be deleting it. I should actually contact > dtimms about it and see if he still wants it. > > The DVD will only ship with KDE. Adding another desktop adds way too many > packages and makes things more complicated than it needs to be. I'm like you > though, I'll be installing gnome after the first boot. Ah ... OK. I took a look at the kickstart files and the only thing that doesn't seem to be there that I consider a must-have is Csound. As far as space is concerned, I can live without an office suite and games if it frees up room for more audio tools. I can *especially* live without Calligra. ;-)

On 4 September 2012 22:37, Jørn Lomax <northlomax(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > On 09/04/2012 11:30 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Brendan Jones >> <brendan.jones.it(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>> The kickstart can be found in the music creation git repo [1]. >> >> >>> [1] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=music-creation.git;a=summary >> >> >> Ah - it seems there are two projects, one based on LXDE >> (music-creation) and one based on KDE (fedora-jam). In my own project, >> I went from LXDE to KDE to GNOME, and I'm staying with GNOME until I >> get this release done. Are there "always" going to be two separate >> Fedora "music / audio" respins, or does all this magic get collapsed >> together in the near future? >> >> And is it possible, given that we're talking DVD-size media, that we >> could have KDE, GNOME, XFCE and LXDE desktops *all* available to the >> user? I really like KDE, but every time I try to use it, I find >> annoyances that far outweigh its advantages and I end up dropping back >> to GNOME or LXDE. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> music mailing list >>> music(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music >> >> >> >> > > The music creation is depreciated and has not been updated since 2010. I > just didn't feel like i should be deleting it. I should actually contact > dtimms about it and see if he still wants it. > > The DVD will only ship with KDE. Adding another desktop adds way too many > packages and makes things more complicated than it needs to be. I'm like you > though, I'll be installing gnome after the first boot. > Has anyone managed a build of the kickstart against F18 yet? I tried at the weekend after noticing the official nightly composes had updated (http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/) but haven't succeeded in getting one to boot properly yet (the Alpha TC5 KDE spin does boot for me). It also seems the firstboot package no longer gets included automatically, so I added that to the one I was trying to build.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 4 September 2012 14:30:08 M. Edward Borasky wrote: > I really like KDE, but every time I try to use it, I find > annoyances that far outweigh its advantages and I end up dropping back > to GNOME or LXDE. What kind of annoyances are these? If you're a sufficiently advanced user that you're packaging your own software, there's probably not a simple solution, but maybe it's a thing (or some things) that annoy lots of people, and we could make modifications for Fedora Jam?