8:56 a.m.
Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor
to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3]
and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to
IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the
Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and
infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/
[2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors
[3]
https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/
[4]
https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/
[5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people
[6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
11:32 p.m.
Ping.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor
to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3]
and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to
IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on
the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and
infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/
[2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors
[3]
https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/
[4]
https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/
[5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people
[6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
3:41 p.m.
Ping. Again.
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ping.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor
> to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3]
> and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to
> IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
>
> In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on
> the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and
> infrastructure.
>
> [1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/
> [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors
> [3]
> https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/
> [4]
> https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/
> [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people
> [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
>
6:44 a.m.
Hello Tim! Welcome to python-devel, and sorry for us being so quiet.
Is there anything in particular you're pinging about?
If want to access the python-sig FAS group, note that an introduction
here is just a part of the process [0]. However, that list is mostly
used to get notifications about bugs in various Python packages (so it
might not be for you), and it gets security-related information (so not
everyone who applies is accepted, but I don't know the details there).
For general discussions there is this list, so you can already participate.
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Python#Python_SIG_FAS_group
On 07/11/2016 10:41 PM, Tim Orling wrote:
Ping. Again.
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com
<mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote:
Ping.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com
<mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote:
Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a
contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer
of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for
OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and
RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology
Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for
its tools and infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/
[2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors
[3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/
[4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/
[5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people
[6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
--
Petr Viktorin
9:20 a.m.
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My
job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And we
are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return:
what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The only place
that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python.
Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to
the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end
must make some action to move the process forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main
contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have
not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have
holidays and it has not been that long yet.
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from my
side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat
insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for
action on the part of a member of python-sig.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please
submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?".
But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much more
inviting.
Cheers.
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Petr Viktorin <pviktori(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hello Tim! Welcome to python-devel, and sorry for us being so quiet.
Is there anything in particular you're pinging about?
If want to access the python-sig FAS group, note that an introduction here
is just a part of the process [0]. However, that list is mostly used to get
notifications about bugs in various Python packages (so it might not be for
you), and it gets security-related information (so not everyone who applies
is accepted, but I don't know the details there). For general discussions
there is this list, so you can already participate.
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Python#Python_SIG_FAS_group
On 07/11/2016 10:41 PM, Tim Orling wrote:
> Ping. Again.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Ping.
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a
> contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer
> of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for
> OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and
> RobotFramework [6].
>
> In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology
> Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for
> its tools and infrastructure.
>
> [1]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/
> [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors
> [3]
> https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/
> [4]
> https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/
> [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people
> [6]
> https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
>
--
Petr Viktorin
2:01 a.m.
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My
job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And
we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in
return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The
only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or
#fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way
thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A
human on the other end must make some action to move the process forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the
main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from
him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer
and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from
my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat
insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait
for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please
submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?".
But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much
more inviting.
Tim,
sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the
SIG or the FAS group.
I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would
expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list.
Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security
sensitive information is being disclosed.
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with
the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of
approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved,
approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a
sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open
discussion about each person, including a vote.)
Matthias
2:58 a.m.
On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
> Hi Petr,
>
> It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My
> job depends on it.
>
> I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And
> we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in
> return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The
> only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or
> #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way
> thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A
> human on the other end must make some action to move the process forward.
>
> Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the
> main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from
> him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer
> and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
What was his response?
> But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for
months from
> my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat
> insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
> have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
> python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait
> for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much
smaller group:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
FWIW:
- Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope
that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
> That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you,
could you please
> submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?".
> But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki says:
"If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and
processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10
Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of
packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this,
please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list
of those in FAS.) "
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably
it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have
been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
> I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was
much
> more inviting.
>
Tim,
sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the
SIG or the FAS group.
I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would
expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list.
Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security
sensitive information is being disclosed.
My understanding is that the *only* reason the python-sig mailing list
is not open is that security-related bugs might be discussed there.
Otherwise we could just open it up for everyone and stop playing this
frustrating gatekeeping game.
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong
with
the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of
approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved,
approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a
sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open
discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
Petr Viktorin
1:23 p.m.
Petr Viktorin <pviktori(a)redhat.com> schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um
09:59 Uhr:
On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
> On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
>> Hi Petr,
>>
>> It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My
>> job depends on it.
>>
>> I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And
>> we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in
>> return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The
>> only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or
>> #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way
>> thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A
>> human on the other end must make some action to move the process
forward.
>>
>> Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the
>> main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from
>> him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer
>> and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
What was his response?
My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time to
work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python community
and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig to get
everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig and
more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for "please
write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list" was
exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion. I
can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the
same...
>> But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for
months from
>> my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat
>> insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
>> have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
>> python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait
>> for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much
smaller group:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
FWIW:
- Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I
hope
that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active
on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there.
> That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you,
could you please
>> submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?".
>> But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki
says:
"If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and
processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10
Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of
packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this,
please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list
of those in FAS.) "
This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had
a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok
and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig.
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably
it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have
been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor someone
who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python packages,
getting to know a sponsor should be doable.
>> I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community
was much
>> more inviting.
>>
> Tim,
> sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
>
> In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the
> SIG or the FAS group.
>
> I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would
> expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list.
> Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security
> sensitive information is being disclosed.
My understanding is that the *only* reason the python-sig mailing list
is not open is that security-related bugs might be discussed there.
Otherwise we could just open it up for everyone and stop playing this
frustrating gatekeeping game.
Yes, that was the reason, for not forwarding all changes to the
python-devel list and creating a new one with all commits/bugs (including
security-related ones). All discussion still takes place on this list.
I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we hope that
this process will improve in the coming weeks...
All the best,
Thomas
> Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go
wrong with
> the SIG and a onboarding process.
>
> Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of
> approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved,
> approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a
> sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open
> discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
Petr Viktorin
_______________________________________________
python-devel mailing list
python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/python-devel@lists.fedoraproj...
3:42 p.m.
Please realize that I first clicked on the python-sig request in FAS nearly
a year ago as I remember it. I applied for the python-sig mailing list a
bit later. When I finally noticed on IRC that I had missed something in the
process, I read the wiki and realized I needed to post a Self-Introduction,
which I did in April. So I did not do things in the right order, but the
time scale here is getting quite silly, no?
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Spura <tomspur(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
Petr Viktorin <pviktori(a)redhat.com> schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um
09:59 Uhr:
> On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
> > On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
> >> Hi Petr,
> >>
> >> It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to.
> My
> >> job depends on it.
> >>
> >> I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once.
> And
> >> we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in
> >> return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]?
> The
> >> only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or
> >> #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way
> >> thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A
> >> human on the other end must make some action to move the process
> forward.
> >>
> >> Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the
> >> main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from
> >> him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer
> >> and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
>
> What was his response?
>
My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time
to work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python
community and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig
to get everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig
and more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for
"please write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list"
was exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion.
I can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the
same...
And so there has to be a way to get to know new people or the whole thing
is not maintainable. I am just trying to figure out what that "way" is,
giiven my current situation.
>> But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for
months from
> >> my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red
> Hat
> >> insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
> >> have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
> >> python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait
> >> for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
>
> You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much
> smaller group:
>
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
>
> FWIW:
> - Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
>
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
> than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope
> that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
>
I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active
on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there.
>> That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you
please
> >> submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know
> you?".
> >> But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
>
> I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki
> says:
> "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and
> processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10
> Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of
> packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this,
> please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list
> of those in FAS.) "
>
This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had
a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok
and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig.
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
>
> The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably
> it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have
> been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
>
Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor
someone who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python
packages, getting to know a sponsor should be doable.
When I started this process, the information on the wiki was quite
different, as Thomas mentioned.
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/Python&diff=465844&a...
I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we
hope that
this process will improve in the coming weeks...
All the best,
Thomas
At this point, I am trying to keep an open mind and not just feel burned by
the python-sig community. I am maintaining the only package I care about
that became orphaned. I will continue to do so. I don't have a current need
for packages not supported already by Fedora. So now I am stuck with your
group's desire for me to be a maintainer of 5 to 10 packages. Since I don't
have new packages I want to add, I would need to request to become a
co-maintainer of existing packages. Then the current maintainers might
likely say, we don't know you so no. I am still stuck in limbo. Or at least
that is how it seems right now.
I want to help the community. Why else would I be working on Fedora? My
entire career is open source now. Every day. All day. I think I made a
fairly good argument in my Self-Introduction about my background and my
contributions outside of Fedora for python in particular. I am here
offering to help Fedora as well.
Now it is time to figure out what the path forward is. Reality may simply
be that I get too busy with other things and the bad experience turns me
off to wanting to help python-sig. At least my speaking up is causing new
discussion in the group and I am thankful for that.
But I will note that no one has suggested an actual path forward yet in my
own case. No one actually said anything--at al--until I pinged Thomas
directly. I am glad to hear Thomas say that changes are in the works so
that others may have a better experience.
Cheers.
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center)
FAS: ttorling (perl-sig, modularity-wg)
> Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go
wrong with
> > the SIG and a onboarding process.
> >
> > Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of
> > approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved,
> > approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a
> > sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open
> > discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
> Petr Viktorin
> _______________________________________________
> python-devel mailing list
> python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/python-devel@lists.fedoraproj...
>
8:49 a.m.
Tim,
let me step in as a new sponsor for Python SIG FAS group.
First of all, let me try to explain what this FAS group is and what it
isn't:
The python-sig FAS group is a group of Fedora packagers with permission
to commit to all packages where the group was added s a co-maintainer.
Today, that's 38 packages [1], not big number, but still big
responsibility. Also, this number will increase in the future,
hopefully. Only trusted packagers can be part of that group. Hence the 5
packages criteria mentioned on the wiki, so non-packagers or people with
one package won't apply.
The python-sig FAS group is not a group of Fedorians who like Python.
For that purpose, one can be part of the informal SIG, i.e. join the
mailing list (python-devel), hang out on IRC (#fedora-python), add their
name to the wiki page. Everybody is welcome to do that. If such person
happens to be or become a packager and becomes known and trusted, (s)he
might end up in the FAS group as well, later.
The python-sig mailing list is not a secret place we don't want anybody
to let in. It's a technical way to distribute e-mail from Fedora systems
to all members of python-sig FAS group. Such e-mail include e-mail from
bugzilla. As those might contian sensite information, the mailing list
is private.
If you want to be on the list just because of the list itself, it is not
going to happen (for anybody). If you want to join the FAS group, talk
to me or other sponsors and make me/them believe you are the right
person for the job. I don't know you, so I won't sponsor you. This might
change when I become to know you trough you extensive work on Python
packages in Fedora and/or EPEL.
You mentioned that you need to be on the list because your work depends
on access to security information.
Since your activity in Fedora is maintaining a single package, none of
the current sponsors feel confident to trust you with that information.
But if you want to talk (perhaps privately) more about what you
need and why, maybe we can come up with a better way than the FAS group
to share security updates with you (or Intel).
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packager/group::python-sig/
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
10:26 p.m.
Hi all.
Somehow, between a week of vacation with my Dad and reading Miro's email
for the third or fourth time I have come to an epiphany...
Let us clean the slate and start over. Light some cedar and sandalwood
incense. Assume the lotus pose and clang your finger symbols. Breathe deep.
Think good thoughts. Life is good.
---
Hi. I'm Tim, although I prefer to be known as "Timo (Teem-OH)". I've
been
using Fedora since before it was called Fedora Core. I care a lot about
__quality__ python packaging in Fedora, in part because my job depends on
it working flawlessly, but also because I just think python is an awesome
language. I evangelize about it to anybody that will listen. I am
responsible for Fedora working flawlessly for my global team and our larger
community (in which many many people prefer to use Fedora). This can be
"fun" when new Fedora releases come out. gcc-6 by default for example. It
usually takes a week or two of somebody's time (now mine) to get it all
working ok again. All of our build tools are based on python. We recently
finished our migration to python3 which makes me very happy.
I have a couple python projects I'd like to contribute to Fedora. The two
that come to mind are rethinkdb and robotframework (which will be many
sub-packages as well). Maybe I'll come up with more. I am an active member
of the IronPython community and perhaps that means I can help with mono
support in Fedora. In particular, I want to drive IronPython to be python3
ready. I need to learn how to become an __expert__ python packager for
Fedora. I also want to help with the inevitable fires that come up. I read
the mailing list daily (hourly?) and get all the notifications about python
packages in Fedora. I guess I don't know where to start helping effectively.
I'm hoping to work with the members of python-sig to learn the ropes and
join the team. I am not just curious, I am determined. Driven even. I would
like to take that energy and apply it to python-sig. I look forward to
getting to know you all and working for a long time with you.
Cheers.
--Tim
P.S. I'm not sure who this email will actually reach, so please forward to
the right list if you have permissions. I'm not going to clutter python-dev
with it anymore. No more negative energy. Life is good.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Tim,
let me step in as a new sponsor for Python SIG FAS group.
First of all, let me try to explain what this FAS group is and what it
isn't:
The python-sig FAS group is a group of Fedora packagers with permission to
commit to all packages where the group was added s a co-maintainer.
Today, that's 38 packages [1], not big number, but still big
responsibility. Also, this number will increase in the future, hopefully.
Only trusted packagers can be part of that group. Hence the 5 packages
criteria mentioned on the wiki, so non-packagers or people with one package
won't apply.
The python-sig FAS group is not a group of Fedorians who like Python.
For that purpose, one can be part of the informal SIG, i.e. join the
mailing list (python-devel), hang out on IRC (#fedora-python), add their
name to the wiki page. Everybody is welcome to do that. If such person
happens to be or become a packager and becomes known and trusted, (s)he
might end up in the FAS group as well, later.
The python-sig mailing list is not a secret place we don't want anybody to
let in. It's a technical way to distribute e-mail from Fedora systems to
all members of python-sig FAS group. Such e-mail include e-mail from
bugzilla. As those might contian sensite information, the mailing list is
private.
If you want to be on the list just because of the list itself, it is not
going to happen (for anybody). If you want to join the FAS group, talk to
me or other sponsors and make me/them believe you are the right person for
the job. I don't know you, so I won't sponsor you. This might change when I
become to know you trough you extensive work on Python packages in Fedora
and/or EPEL.
You mentioned that you need to be on the list because your work depends on
access to security information.
Since your activity in Fedora is maintaining a single package, none of the
current sponsors feel confident to trust you with that information.
But if you want to talk (perhaps privately) more about what you
need and why, maybe we can come up with a better way than the FAS group
to share security updates with you (or Intel).
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packager/group::python-sig/
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
9:06 a.m.
On 08/13/2016 05:26 AM, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi all.
Somehow, between a week of vacation with my Dad and reading Miro's email
for the third or fourth time I have come to an epiphany...
Let us clean the slate and start over. Light some cedar and sandalwood
incense. Assume the lotus pose and clang your finger symbols. Breathe
deep. Think good thoughts. Life is good.
---
Hi. I'm Tim, although I prefer to be known as "Timo (Teem-OH)".
Hi Timo! Welcome!
Could you put your preferred name in your e-mail signature? At least
that's where I look for proper spelling of people's names :)
I've
been using Fedora since before it was called Fedora Core. I care a lot
about __quality__ python packaging in Fedora, in part because my job
depends on it working flawlessly, but also because I just think python
is an awesome language. I evangelize about it to anybody that will
listen. I am responsible for Fedora working flawlessly for my global
team and our larger community (in which many many people prefer to use
Fedora). This can be "fun" when new Fedora releases come out. gcc-6 by
default for example. It usually takes a week or two of somebody's time
(now mine) to get it all working ok again. All of our build tools are
based on python. We recently finished our migration to python3 which
makes me very happy.
Congratulations!
I have a couple python projects I'd like to contribute to Fedora.
The
two that come to mind are rethinkdb and robotframework (which will be
many sub-packages as well). Maybe I'll come up with more.
What's the status of rethinkdb and robotframework? Can we help getting
these in?
I am an active
member of the IronPython community and perhaps that means I can help
with mono support in Fedora.
That sounds interesting! I admit I don't know much about IronPython.
Would you care elaborating a bit on your plans regarding IronPython in
Fedora?
In particular, I want to drive IronPython
to be python3 ready. I need to learn how to become an __expert__ python
packager for Fedora. I also want to help with the inevitable fires that
come up. I read the mailing list daily (hourly?) and get all the
notifications about python packages in Fedora. I guess I don't know
where to start helping effectively.
Helping effectively depends a lot on your area of interest. How do *you*
want to make Fedora better?
Packaging rethinkdb/robotframework seems like it would be a good start.
Then there are always things others would like help with in their quest
to make Fedora better. For example, in the Python 3 effort, there's a
tracking bug for cases where the packager doesn't have time to do the
Python3 port. Some of the bugs there need expert skills, for some it's
just that the packager doesn't have time:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1333765
If you'd just like to help others but don't know where to start, this
list is a good place to ask.
As for the inevitable fires, unless it's an embargoed security issues
there should be a public bug on Bugzilla, and usually a flurry of
activity on this list or IRC. See the recent majorver-provides
discussion for example.
I'm hoping to work with the members of python-sig to learn the
ropes and
join the team. I am not just curious, I am determined. Driven even. I
would like to take that energy and apply it to python-sig. I look
forward to getting to know you all and working for a long time with you.
Welcome to the Python SIG!
Cheers.
--Tim
P.S. I'm not sure who this email will actually reach, so please forward
to the right list if you have permissions. I'm not going to clutter
python-dev with it anymore. No more negative energy. Life is good.
Well, python-devel is the right list for this post. Sorry for the
misunderstandings earlier.
--
Petr Viktorin
3:16 p.m.
On 15/08/16 16:06, Petr Viktorin wrote:
Then there are always things others would like help with in their quest
to make Fedora better. For example, in the Python 3 effort, there's a
tracking bug for cases where the packager doesn't have time to do the
Python3 port. Some of the bugs there need expert skills, for some it's
just that the packager doesn't have time:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1333765
If you'd just like to help others but don't know where to start, this
list is a good place to ask.
Welcome Tim,
that bug contains a some links to spec files, which are in need of a
patch. But that being said, there are quite a few spec files following
some older recommendation and are now in need of modernization. Patches
are welcome there as well, I'd assume.
If you're looking for other pointers, where to help,
http://fedora.portingdb.xyz/ is another resource.
Best,
Matthias
2805
days inactive
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python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
12 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Matthias Runge -
Miro Hrončok -
Petr Viktorin -
Thomas Spura -
Tim Orling