On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 22:25 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > Hi, > > an interesting discussion came up in the Python Maint team recently, > about not shipping python3-debug and python2-debug. > > On the Chesterton's fence principle [0], I'd would like to know why > are > we building and shipping them before we have a discussion about > their > removal to save build time and remove packaging cruft. > > Anyone has an idea? Those packages are meant to debug Python, yet > all > people I know who do that, build they own Python for that purpose > (often > from the master branch). I think I used debug builds for this feature : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EasierPythonDebugging https://wiki.python.org/moin/DebuggingWithGdb

From: "Troy Curtis Jr" <troycurtisjr(a)gmail.com&gt; To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; Cc: "Fedora Python SIG" <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 3:44:39 AM Subject: Re: Why are we shipping debug builds of pythons? On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM Miro Hrončok < mhroncok(a)redhat.com > wrote: Hi, an interesting discussion came up in the Python Maint team recently, about not shipping python3-debug and python2-debug. On the Chesterton's fence principle [0], I'd would like to know why are we building and shipping them before we have a discussion about their removal to save build time and remove packaging cruft. Anyone has an idea? Those packages are meant to debug Python, yet all people I know who do that, build they own Python for that purpose (often from the master branch). The other main use for the Python debug package is debugging Python C extensions. I recently made very good use of it while using GDB to debug some extensions I was working on. This is more than just having debug symbols, which of course is essential, but the debug build means that when you are stepping through the code, you can more easily follow what the interpreter is doing. Also, I think that is the package that has some niceties that extend GDB to work even better with Python code. I tracked down the introduction of the python-debug package in this commit [1] by David Malcolm (CCed) @ 8 years ago, added in Fedora 14 shortly before upgrade to 2.7. Yet the commit message lacks rationale. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence [1] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python/c/f020abd35954981b383884105dad4... Thanks, -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok Troy _______________________________________________ python-devel mailing list -- python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/python-devel@lists.fedorapr...

On Sat, 2018-08-04 at 22:25 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > Hi, > > an interesting discussion came up in the Python Maint team recently, > about not shipping python3-debug and python2-debug. > > On the Chesterton's fence principle [0], I'd would like to know why > are > we building and shipping them before we have a discussion about > their > removal to save build time and remove packaging cruft. > > Anyone has an idea? Those packages are meant to debug Python, yet > all > people I know who do that, build they own Python for that purpose > (often > from the master branch). > > I tracked down the introduction of the python-debug package in this > commit [1] by David Malcolm (CCed) @ 8 years ago, added in Fedora 14 > shortly before upgrade to 2.7. Yet the commit message lacks > rationale. > > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence > [1] > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python/c/f020abd35954981b383884105 > dad425ba9c6637a Python's --with-pydebug adds lots of checking that's useful when developing *extension modules*, as well as debugging Python itself. This checking breaks ABI (due to adding nodes for a doubly-linked list of all objects into the base PyObject struct). The reason I added these packages to Fedora was to make Fedora a more attractive OS for people developing Python extension modules (given that Debian did, and we didn't, at the time). If you're trying to track down a reference leak in some module, having to build your own Python feels like an unnecessary hurdle (IMHO).