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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All URL: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/DatabaseServers OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: normal Priority: normal Component: release-notes AssignedTo: relnotes@fedoraproject.org ReportedBy: nsoranzo@tiscali.it QAContact: kwade@redhat.com CC: kwade@redhat.com
Actually the text is:
"Fedora Core 4 provided version 8.0 of PostgreSQL. If you upgrade an existing Fedora system with a PostgreSQL database, you must upgrade the database to access the data."
To me it's not clear that you have to back up _before_ upgrading. I'd rather prefer:
"The internal data storage format changed in respect to the version provided in Fedora Core 4, PostgreSQL 8.0. Before upgrading an existing Fedora Core system with a PostgreSQL database, you must back up the data and then restore it after the upgrade."
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
------- Additional Comments From stickster@gmail.com 2006-03-17 20:16 EST ------- Just my $0.02, but the release notes are clear that to upgrade, you should visit the PostgreSQL site to get up-to-the-minute information on how to perform the upgrade. The admonition is merely there to remind people that you can't just install/upgrade FC5 and have everything work perfectly. If there are caveats to the process, we don't want to get in a position of having to replicate those in the release notes.
At this point the release notes have been frozen for translation and the Web, but they will likely "unfreeze" after FC5 release. This is a candidate for inclusion at that point, although my personal opinion is that the notes are already explicit about directing users to the experts.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
------- Additional Comments From nsoranzo@tiscali.it 2006-03-20 10:40 EST ------- (In reply to comment #1)
Just my $0.02, but the release notes are clear that to upgrade, you should visit the PostgreSQL site to get up-to-the-minute information on how to perform the upgrade. The admonition is merely there to remind people that you can't just install/upgrade FC5 and have everything work perfectly. If there are caveats to the process, we don't want to get in a position of having to replicate those in the release notes.
My proposed modification doesn't add anything new, just rephrases and clarifies one paragraph! Also this upgrade method is used in PostgreSQL since version 6.0, I've just checked all the release notes.
At this point the release notes have been frozen for translation and the Web, but they will likely "unfreeze" after FC5 release. This is a candidate for inclusion at that point, although my personal opinion is that the notes are already explicit about directing users to the experts.
It's correct to direct users to detailed official documentation (I suppose that's what you mean with "experts"...), but I think this small clarification is needed. So please add it to the release notes after the unfreezeing.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
kwade@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution| |NOTABUG
------- Additional Comments From kwade@redhat.com 2006-03-23 15:30 EST ------- In reply to comment #2:
My proposed modification doesn't add anything new, just rephrases and clarifies one paragraph! Also this upgrade method is used in PostgreSQL since version 6.0, I've just checked all the release notes.
Regardless, it relies upon application-specific methodology that was different in the past and could be different in the future.
Your change makes the [Tip] go from a static piece of useful content directing users to the upstream documentation, to a piece of content that needs to be validity checked for every future release. Just like you checked the release notes going back to PostgreSQL 6.0, we would have to do the same each release to be sure the methodology was still fundamentally the same. Considering that we do not even have an accountable volunteer as lead writer for the database content, I'm very hesitant to add more human-requiring procedures.
What I did instead was to bring the directions to go to the URL for upgrade instructions into the [Tip] admonition:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/DatabaseServers
We already need to update that upgrade URL for (probably) each release, but it is a single change that gets us the benefit of _all_ of the upstream content on the subject without causing us to duplicate the content writing and publication efforts.
Does that make sense?
It's correct to direct users to detailed official documentation (I suppose that's what you mean with "experts"...), but I think this small clarification is needed.
Right, anything that points at postgresql.org/docs is 100% "the expert". One is almost never wrong pointing at the upstream content as canonical and best.
I'm closing this bug as NOTABUG because the original situation is not a defect in the document. However, I think bringing the URL into the admonition was a Good Thing. Thanks for reporting on the need to provide a stronger direction for users. I hope you understand why we do not want to recreate/reprint actual procedures/directions from canonical sources when a hyperlink can do all the work for us.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
------- Additional Comments From nsoranzo@tiscali.it 2006-03-24 10:05 EST ------- (In reply to comment #3)
My proposed modification doesn't add anything new, just rephrases and clarifies one paragraph! Also this upgrade method is used in PostgreSQL since version 6.0, I've just checked all the release notes.
Regardless, it relies upon application-specific methodology that was different in the past and could be different in the future.
It wasn't different in the past (only there's no available documentation for versions before 6.0 to check), but could surely be different in the future.
Your change makes the [Tip] go from a static piece of useful content directing users to the upstream documentation, to a piece of content that needs to be validity checked for every future release.
BTW, I've never asked to delete the directions to go to the URL!
We already need to update that upgrade URL for (probably) each release, but it is a single change that gets us the benefit of _all_ of the upstream content on the subject without causing us to duplicate the content writing and publication efforts.
The back up/restore process is not necessary at every FC upgrade, since major versions of PostgreSQL are released every 10-13 months. So in any case we need to check the validity of the actual version of the statement.
I'm closing this bug as NOTABUG because the original situation is not a defect
in the document.
Ok, but to me it's still not clear that you have to back up _before_ upgrading Fedora, so I'll try anyway to suggest an enhancement, please consider it and let me know. Substitute this:
"Fedora Core 4 provided version 8.0 of PostgreSQL. If you upgrade an existing Fedora system with a PostgreSQL database, you must upgrade the database to access the data. To upgrade a database from a previous version of PostgreSQL, follow the procedure described at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/install-upgrading.html."
with:
"Before upgrading an existing Fedora Core system with a PostgreSQL database, it could be necessary to follow the procedure described at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/install-upgrading.html. Otherwise the data may be not accessible by the new version of PostgreSQL."
My sentence works for all the previous versions of FC/PgSQL and works also if the internal data format hasn't changed. Only the URL must be updated for new FC releases.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
nsoranzo@tiscali.it changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |REOPENED Resolution|NOTABUG |
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
bugzilla@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |ASSIGNED Keywords| |Reopened
------- Additional Comments From bugzilla@redhat.com 2007-02-05 13:54 EST ------- REOPENED status has been deprecated. ASSIGNED with keyword of Reopened is preferred.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
kwade@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |CLOSED Resolution| |RAWHIDE
------- Additional Comments From kwade@redhat.com 2007-02-06 13:57 EST ------- Not sure why we never incorporated the suggestion ...
I did the sane thing, which is update the source on the Wiki:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/DatabaseServers
It can now be reviewed and have the URL updated for the next release.
Thanks for the contribution.
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Summary: RELNOTES - Better explanation of PostgreSQL upgrade
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=185788
------- Additional Comments From nsoranzo@tiscali.it 2007-02-06 19:58 EST ------- Thank you, I lost hope about this ;)
Just one more thing, the Admonition is missing the closing bracket )
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