hello,
Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello,
Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello,
Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
Rahul
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=439699
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:27 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
I'm not certain this is entirely bad behavior. I guess it depends on what upstart intends to accomplish. Fedora in general is (in my opinion) rightly moving in a direction of showing less technically informational messages (RHGB) that might confuse the less technically saavy users (or convertees).
At least, there could be a button to click to enable or disable messages like RHGB does.
-b
Brian C. Huffman wrote:
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:27 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
I'm not certain this is entirely bad behavior. I guess it depends on what upstart intends to accomplish. Fedora in general is (in my opinion) rightly moving in a direction of showing less technically informational messages (RHGB) that might confuse the less technically saavy users (or convertees).
At least, there could be a button to click to enable or disable messages like RHGB does.
-b
Exactly....some kind of toggle. Needed during testing just as quiet is turned off during a releases' developement.
Brian C. Huffman wrote:
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:27 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
I'm not certain this is entirely bad behavior. I guess it depends on what upstart intends to accomplish. Fedora in general is (in my opinion) rightly moving in a direction of showing less technically informational messages (RHGB) that might confuse the less technically saavy users (or convertees).
It's a fair bugger to debug problems though. I turn it off.
U: My system won't boot HD: What messages do you see? U: None.
John Summerfield wrote:
Brian C. Huffman wrote:
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:27 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
I'm not certain this is entirely bad behavior. I guess it depends on what upstart intends to accomplish. Fedora in general is (in my opinion) rightly moving in a direction of showing less technically informational messages (RHGB) that might confuse the less technically saavy users (or convertees).
It's a fair bugger to debug problems though. I turn it off.
U: My system won't boot HD: What messages do you see? U: None.
Won't happen since RHGB automatically falls back to showing details the moment any daemon fails to start.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Brian C. Huffman wrote:
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:27 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
I'm not certain this is entirely bad behavior. I guess it depends on what upstart intends to accomplish. Fedora in general is (in my opinion) rightly moving in a direction of showing less technically informational messages (RHGB) that might confuse the less technically saavy users (or convertees).
It's a fair bugger to debug problems though. I turn it off.
U: My system won't boot HD: What messages do you see? U: None.
Won't happen since RHGB automatically falls back to showing details the moment any daemon fails to start.
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts? Slow boots? It's not happened to me in some years[1], but I recall 20 minutes and more when there was no functioning DNS or substitute. Sendmail in particular was notorious.
btw Is it intended behaviour that boot.log be empty? I was going to check to see what's in it, and all are empty - and it's less than an hour since I last rebooted.
[1] I've read of sendmail problems long since I stopped having them; I attribute most of the difference to my better networks than than, and my reluctance to use sendmail. However, ntpdate on Ubuntu Warty took ages when the network was down.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts?
These are not relevant to RHGB. If anything happens before RHGB even starts, users would see it anyway.
The subject says "quiet."
My test system's running Rawhide, and it was in the final stages of updating to my overnight refresh of my rawhide mirror as I read your email.
I added 'quiet rhgb' to the kernel parameters for the latest 2.4.25 kernel (which I expect to fail), and I did get the kernel messages, and the expected boot failure (though the actual messages were different from what I expected. Probably a new mkinitrd caused that).
I then booted the last kernel that does work, a 2.4.25 kernel, with "quiet rhgb" and there are absolutely no messages, and the system seems to be locked up.
Wanna come round and sort it out?
Slow boots?
This is unrelated to the ability to debug. If it happens, file a bug report.
Against what? The cause is likely a local problem.
John Summerfield wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts?
These are not relevant to RHGB. If anything happens before RHGB even starts, users would see it anyway.
The subject says "quiet."
Quiet should have no effect on rawhide.
Wanna come round and sort it out?
Nope. File a bug report.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts?
These are not relevant to RHGB. If anything happens before RHGB even starts, users would see it anyway.
The subject says "quiet."
Quiet should have no effect on rawhide.
Whether it should or not, the failure I had with it illustrates my point very nicely.
Wanna come round and sort it out?
Nope. File a bug report.
Didn't think you would.
There's not much evidence. System booted without "quiet rhgb." No trace that I can see of the failed boot (no /var/log/dmesg from it).
This is the kernel: 2.6.24.1-28.fc9
If someone gave me a bug report like that, it wouldn't be high on my priorities. Little info, nobody _should_ be using it....
John Summerfield wrote:
Whether it should or not, the failure I had with it illustrates my point very nicely.
Sure. That is why I said "should". Bugs happen.
There's not much evidence. System booted without "quiet rhgb." No trace that I can see of the failed boot (no /var/log/dmesg from it).
This is the kernel: 2.6.24.1-28.fc9
If someone gave me a bug report like that, it wouldn't be high on my priorities.
It is useful filing it anyway. If others can reproduce the problem, then we can confirm your observation.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Whether it should or not, the failure I had with it illustrates my point very nicely.
Sure. That is why I said "should". Bugs happen.
There's not much evidence. System booted without "quiet rhgb." No trace that I can see of the failed boot (no /var/log/dmesg from it).
This is the kernel: 2.6.24.1-28.fc9
If someone gave me a bug report like that, it wouldn't be high on my priorities.
It is useful filing it anyway. If others can reproduce the problem, then we can confirm your observation.
I'll see about it when my existing report against 2.6.25 is fixed. Until then I'm running an obsolete kernel and it's really not worth bothering with if it's gone away, magically or otherwise.
--- John Summerfield debian@herakles.homelinux.org wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts?
These are not relevant to RHGB. If anything
happens before RHGB even
starts, users would see it anyway.
The subject says "quiet."
My test system's running Rawhide, and it was in the final stages of updating to my overnight refresh of my rawhide mirror as I read your email.
I added 'quiet rhgb' to the kernel parameters for the latest 2.4.25
Did you actually mean 2.6.25 ?
2.4.25 was in the past. We are actually running a
cut + pasted from Rawhide Report 20080329 ==================================================== kernel-2.6.25-0.172.rc7.git4.fc9 -------------------------------- * Fri Mar 28 2008 Dave Jones davej@redhat.com - 2.6.25-rc7-git4
* Fri Mar 28 2008 John W. Linville linville@redhat.com - libertas: fix spinlock recursion bug - rt2x00: Ignore set_state(STATE_SLEEP) failure - iwlwifi: allow a default callback for ASYNC host commands - libertas: kill useless #define LBS_MONITOR_OFF 0 - libertas: remove CMD_802_11_PWR_CFG - libertas: the compact flash driver is no longer experimental - libertas: reduce debug output - mac80211: reorder fields to make some structures smaller - iwlwifi: Add led support - mac80211: fix wrong Rx A-MPDU control via debugfs - mac80211: A-MPDU MLME use dynamic allocation - iwlwifi: rename iwl-4965-io.h to iwl-io.h - iwlwifi: improve NIC i/o debug prints information - iwlwifi: iwl_priv - clean up in types of members
* Fri Mar 28 2008 Jarod Wilson jwilson@redhat.com - Fix up Requires/Provides for debuginfo bits =================================================
I am running kernel-2.6.25-0.161c7.git4.fc9 or kernel-2.6.25-0.155rc7.git4.fc9?
Because I did not apply updates on Saturday or Sunday, but will do so tomorrow :)
The 2.6.25 kernels and 2.6.24-?? have given troubles for some users and the list has the details. Some kernels would simply not boot and we would try left and right till the latest one did the job.
BTW on one machine I have no rhgb quiet and I can see all the messages when I am starting the machine and on the other I have it turned on and it does display the startup messages that I can see and right after udev and selinux messages, the rhgb kicks in and takes over.
kernel (which I expect to fail), and I did get the kernel messages, and the expected boot failure (though the actual messages were different from what I expected. Probably a new mkinitrd caused that).
I then booted the last kernel that does work, a 2.4.25 kernel, with "quiet rhgb" and there are absolutely no messages, and the system seems to be locked up.
Wanna come round and sort it out?
Slow boots?
This is unrelated to the ability to debug. If it
happens, file a bug
report.
Against what? The cause is likely a local problem.
--
Cheers John
-- spambait 1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa@coco.merseine.nu -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
You cannot reply off-list:-)
--
Regards,
Antonio
____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Antonio Olivares wrote:
--- John Summerfield debian@herakles.homelinux.org wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Summerfield wrote:
Kernel messages? Before RHGB starts?
These are not relevant to RHGB. If anything
happens before RHGB even
starts, users would see it anyway.
The subject says "quiet."
My test system's running Rawhide, and it was in the final stages of updating to my overnight refresh of my rawhide mirror as I read your email.
I added 'quiet rhgb' to the kernel parameters for the latest 2.4.25
Did you actually mean 2.6.25 ?
Yeah. This box is bleeding edge, and bleeding badly.
2.4.25 was in the past. We are actually running a
cut + pasted from Rawhide Report 20080329
kernel-2.6.25-0.172.rc7.git4.fc9
- Fri Mar 28 2008 Dave Jones davej@redhat.com
- 2.6.25-rc7-git4
BTW on one machine I have no rhgb quiet and I can see
That's how I run everything. It's easy to ignore messages one doesn't want, but impossible to seem them when they're needed.
It's especially frustrating when the kernel panics and so has to be rebooted.
It's especially especially frustration when the box is a name brand and so lacks a reset button & so need to have its power cycled.
all the messages when I am starting the machine and on the other I have it turned on and it does display the startup messages that I can see and right after udev and selinux messages, the rhgb kicks in and takes over.
I thought rhgb was really great when I first saw it. Since then I've change my mind.
kernel (which I expect to fail), and I did get the kernel messages, and the expected boot failure (though the actual messages were different from what I expected. Probably a new mkinitrd caused that).
I then booted the last kernel that does work, a 2.4.25 kernel, with
2.6.24
"quiet rhgb" and there are absolutely no messages, and the system seems to be locked up.
I didn't even get the penguins.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello, Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
Upstart has nothing to do with it - this happens in F8 as well.
-w
Will Woods wrote:
On Mar 30, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello, Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
Upstart has nothing to do with it - this happens in F8 as well.
-w
Well, with respect, just ran two tests on F8--one with quiet and one without. In both cases got the expected shutdown/stopping/sending...msgs. So, if not upstart in F9beta, what?
I'll let the gurus figure this out for now...off to see the Prez throw out the first pitch at the Nationals/Braves season opener.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello,
Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
When I select shutdown/reboot and X quits I get dropped to the first virtual console but the shutdown messages appear on the seventh. Do the messages show up you hit alt+f7?
Regards, Dennis
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 11:51:05PM +0200, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
When I select shutdown/reboot and X quits I get dropped to the first virtual console but the shutdown messages appear on the seventh.
I tried shutting down with a help of the following script
chvt 1; shutdown -h now
and shutdown messages do show up. I have to try that a number of times yet but it looks to me too that we see upstart bugs.
OTOH these are nothing in comparison with https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=438444 I did not see yet a single comment about it.`
Michal
Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
hello,
Does the kernel line parameter "quiet" have any effect in F9 beta? I have it on the grub.conf kernel line, but get all of the initial messages.
Quiet is always disabled for rawhide and test releases to enable easier debugging.
Also, does quiet affect display of shutdown messages? Not seeing any with upstart.
I see this too. Seems to be upstart quirk/bug. Can you file a bug report please?
When I select shutdown/reboot and X quits I get dropped to the first virtual console but the shutdown messages appear on the seventh. Do the messages show up you hit alt+f7?
Regards, Dennis
Yep...msgs are on VT-7. BZ updated. Rahul already noted it may be a vt switch issue.
-
Antonio Olivares -
Brian C. Huffman -
Clyde E. Kunkel -
Dennis Jacobfeuerborn -
John Summerfield -
Michal Jaegermann -
Rahul Sundaram -
Will Woods