building a new dev box, don't care about the rough edges so want to install whatever will eventually allow me to upgrade to fedora 31 ... downloaded Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-Rawhide-20190816.n.0.iso and installed only to notice it's pre-release fedora 32, checked the release schedule and, sure enough, the fedora 31 branch happened earlier this month so this image is already rawhide for fedora 32.
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.
rday
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.
Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/ https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/ branched/ https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
Then for workstation, assuming that the building was successful, you should find the ISO here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
Ciao, A.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
Then for workstation, assuming that the building was successful, you should find the ISO here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
i checked a number of STATUS files, and all the ones i looked at said either FINISHED_INCOMPLETE or DOOMED. that does not fill me with confidence. does that suggest that none of those ISOs are usable?
rday
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:26 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
i checked a number of STATUS files, and all the ones i looked at said either FINISHED_INCOMPLETE or DOOMED. that does not fill me with confidence. does that suggest that none of those ISOs are usable?
Well, maybe someone more experienced than me can be more precise. Please correct me if i am wrong.
DOOMED should mean that something has gone very bad, and no images were produced. FINISHED_INCOMPLETE should mean that not all the expected images have been built. So, if you find the ISO you are looking for, it should boot.
Ciao, A.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:26 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
i checked a number of STATUS files, and all the ones i looked at said either FINISHED_INCOMPLETE or DOOMED. that does not fill me with confidence. does that suggest that none of those ISOs are usable?Well, maybe someone more experienced than me can be more precise. Please correct me if i am wrong.
DOOMED should mean that something has gone very bad, and no images were produced. FINISHED_INCOMPLETE should mean that not all the expected images have been built. So, if you find the ISO you are looking for, it should boot.
status files aside, i would have thought that the most recent ISO (here) would be the obvious choice:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
as i recall, that will allow updating and eventually let me upgrade to official fedora 31, yes?
rday
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:50 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
status files aside, i would have thought that the most recent ISO (here) would be the obvious choice:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
Yes. As far as the image you are looking for is there.
as i recall, that will allow updating and eventually let me upgrade to
official fedora 31, yes?
Mmm. Do you mean updating an existing system (running a previous Fedora version) using the CD/DVD/USB stick? If so, please note that it is no more possible since a long time.
Ciao, A.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
Mmm. Do you mean updating an existing system (running a previous Fedora version) using the CD/DVD/USB stick? If so, please note that it is no more possible since a long time.
i mean that if i install this pre-release form of fedora 31, i will eventually be able to upgrade to full, official fedora 31. isn't that what "dnf system-upgrade" is for?
rday
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:26:39 -0400 (EDT) "Robert P. J. Day" rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
i mean that if i install this pre-release form of fedora 31, i will eventually be able to upgrade to full, official fedora 31. isn't that what "dnf system-upgrade" is for?
If you install the pre-release, you are installing F31. When F31 is released, there will be no difference. The branch of F31 (a week or two ago) from rawhide is where the difference occurred, and Fedora policy is to default to the branch rather than to continue following rawhide. There was some confusion this time because of gating in rawhide, but not in the branch, but that will likely not occur again.
dnf system-upgrade is for moving from one release to another, say F30 to F31. Doesn't apply to the pre-release, because the transition from pre-release to release is transparent to the user.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, stan via test wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:26:39 -0400 (EDT) "Robert P. J. Day" rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
i mean that if i install this pre-release form of fedora 31, i will eventually be able to upgrade to full, official fedora 31. isn't that what "dnf system-upgrade" is for?
If you install the pre-release, you are installing F31. When F31 is released, there will be no difference. The branch of F31 (a week or two ago) from rawhide is where the difference occurred, and Fedora policy is to default to the branch rather than to continue following rawhide. There was some confusion this time because of gating in rawhide, but not in the branch, but that will likely not occur again.
dnf system-upgrade is for moving from one release to another, say F30 to F31. Doesn't apply to the pre-release, because the transition from pre-release to release is transparent to the user.
i'm confused ... are you saying there will be no difference between this release:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
and the final, official release of f31?
also, since today is the official "beta freeze" day:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/31/Schedule
what does *that* mean in terms of a downloadable ISO?
i'm not *trying* to be confused, i am merely succeeding.
rday
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:15:35 -0400 (EDT) "Robert P. J. Day" rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
i'm confused ... are you saying there will be no difference between this release:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
and the final, official release of f31?
also, since today is the official "beta freeze" day:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/31/Schedule
what does *that* mean in terms of a downloadable ISO?
i'm not *trying* to be confused, i am merely succeeding.
I think Adam already cleared this up, but just for completeness: there will be differences, because after beta freeze is over, some of the packages will probably be updated in the official release. But those updated packages will be available to the package manager in the pre-release from the F31 repositories. They are both F31, just a snapshot taken at a different time, and one of them is labeled official after it passes quality tests.
Two weeks after release of F31, if you have been updating regularly, there will be no difference between a fully updated pre-release install and a fully updated release install of F31. To reiterate, they are both F31.
On Tue, 2019-08-27 at 17:15 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
i'm confused ... are you saying there will be no difference between this release:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
and the final, official release of f31?
This page may possibly be useful to you in understanding the details of this stuff:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/repositories/
There are three things to keep in mind, broadly speaking: the Bodhi 'update' process, Koji tags, and the compose process.
When we do an F31 compose what we're basically doing is taking all the packages that have the tag 'f31' in Koji and producing some repositories and some 'deliverables' (i.e. images, basically) from them, all bundled up in this thing called a 'compose'.
If that compose is a nightly compose, and it's successful, the symlink you linked above will point to it. Also, its contents will be synced out to https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/31/ ... which is where the 'fedora' repository on an installed system goes looking for stuff.
How packages get that 'f31' tag is (after the Bodhi enablement point) via Bodhi. A packager does a build in Koji first; at that point it doesn't get the 'f31' tag. Then they submit an update to Bodhi, at which point the build gets the 'f31-updates-testing' tag and is included in the next f31 updates-testing compose, and goes to the updates-testing repository. Once the update meets the requirements in the updates policy and is "submitted for stable" (either manually or automatically), it is given the 'f31' tag - when Bodhi "pushes an update to stable", what it really *does* is apply the 'f31' tag to it. (This is during the pre-release Branched phase, note; after release it works a bit differently). So once an update has been 'pushed stable', it gets the 'f31' tag; the next time a compose is run that package will be installed, and if that compose is successful, that package will appear (soon afterwards) in the 'fedora' repository for an installed Fedora 31 system.
When we do what's called a 'candidate' compose - the ones that are candidates to be released as Beta or Final - we do more or less the same thing, though the compose gets a slightly different compose ID and gets a 'label' (like Beta-1.1 or RC-1.2) which nightly composes don't get. But for a 'candidate' compose we may include some packages that are only in updates-testing at the time, if those packages fix blocker or freeze exception bugs. So 'candidate' composes may have a few packages that a 'nightly' compose run on the same date do not have.
However, once we sign off on a candidate compose to be released, we then push any such additional packages it contained to stable as soon as possible. We also push them stable a day or two *before* we push any later updates stable. So as a practical matter, for both Beta and Final there are usually two or three nightly composes shortly after a candidate compose is accepted for release that are effectively identical to the candidate compose. So to answer your initial question - from a day or two after the Final release candidate is signed off, the compose you find at the location you linked will be practically identical to it. It won't be *literally* identical, but it should contain all the same packages.
Nightly Branched composes appear here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
and are run automatically every day (occasionally we manually fire respins). The most recent successful one is automatically symlinked to the URL you gave shortly after it completes.
Candidate composes will appear here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/31 (that location doesn't exist yet and won't until the first Beta candidate compose is requested). They are done on request (requests made by the QA team to release engineering, per https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_compose_request ).
also, since today is the official "beta freeze" day:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/31/Schedule
what does *that* mean in terms of a downloadable ISO?
Freeze doesn't mean anything in particular in terms of composes (i.e. ISOs). Nightly composes happen every day after branching, regardless of anything else. What the freeze means is that the usual rules for updates to be 'pushed stable' (i.e. given the f31 tag and included automatically in subsequent nightly and candidate composes) are suspended until the Beta release; instead updates can only be 'pushed stable' manually during the freeze period, and *only* updates which fix blocker or freeze exception bugs will be pushed stable. That process again is handled by QA filing requests for releng: I filed the first one for the F31 Beta freeze earlier today, here: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8702
Pending updates that don't fix blocker or FE bugs just get to sit in updates-testing during freezes. Once the Beta release candidate is signed off, a day or two later we 'unfreeze' and all queued updates that were submitted for stable but not pushed stable due to the freeze get pushed stable in one big dump.
One thing to keep in mind during all this is that if you have an *installed F31 system*, the updates-testing repository will be enabled by default, which means that when you update the system you won't only get packages that have been 'pushed stable' and are showing up in the composes - you'll get all packages that have been submitted to Bodhi, even before they are 'pushed stable'. Your installed system will usually be 'ahead of' the nightly composes and even the candidate composes. If you want to stay in sync with what's been 'pushed stable' you can disable the updates-testing repository. The reason we do this is essentially that this whole process relies on people to test the packages that are submitted as updates and provide feedback to help decide whether or not they should be 'pushed stable'; if you install a pre-release we assume you're basically volunteering to help testing, so you get updates-testing enabled.
Hope that made things more rather than less clear! Do ask if you have any further questions.
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, alciregi@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 00:15 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
<snip>
Wow Adam. This is a very interesting explanation. It could be converted to a Magazine or Commblog post, or to a quick doc. :-)
i was just about to say ... :-) also, i'm sure there is a more comprehensive document describing koji and bodhi and other related bits and pieces and how they all hang together ... anyone got a link?
rday
On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 06:51 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, alciregi@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 00:15 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
<snip>
Wow Adam. This is a very interesting explanation. It could be converted to a Magazine or Commblog post, or to a quick doc. :-)
i was just about to say ... :-) also, i'm sure there is a more comprehensive document describing koji and bodhi and other related bits and pieces and how they all hang together ... anyone got a link?
There isn't exactly one single comprehensive document; it's one of those things where we use the same systems for a lot of different stuff, and the explanation you need depends on the question you ask...
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:49:38 -0400 (EDT) "Robert P. J. Day" rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
status files aside, i would have thought that the most recent ISO (here) would be the obvious choice:
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/latest-Fedora-31/compose...
as i recall, that will allow updating and eventually let me upgrade to official fedora 31, yes?
If you are going to upgrade, why not use an F30 image? There will be an official upgrade path after F31 is released.
You might also find what you are looking for here:
https://www.happyassassin.net/nightlies.html
Lots of images, and seems to be both very old and very new images there. But it gives a date of the last good compose. Note the disclaimer that these are not official release images.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
i'm still curious about the meaning of the STATUS file there, as what i see currently is:
COMPOSE_ID = Fedora-31-20190826.n.0 STATUS = FINISHED_INCOMPLETE
but if i wander down to find the ISO, i get what appears to be a perfectly installable:
Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-31-20190826.n.0.iso
so i don't know what FINISHED_INCOMPLETE means in the context of what appears to be a perfectly complete and working ISO.
rday
On 8/28/19 7:13 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
i'm still curious about the meaning of the STATUS file there, as what i see currently is:
COMPOSE_ID = Fedora-31-20190826.n.0 STATUS = FINISHED_INCOMPLETE
but if i wander down to find the ISO, i get what appears to be a perfectly installable:
Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-31-20190826.n.0.iso
so i don't know what FINISHED_INCOMPLETE means in the context of what appears to be a perfectly complete and working ISO.
Wasn't this answer in an earlier part of the thread sufficient?
DOOMED should mean that something has gone very bad, and no images were produced. FINISHED_INCOMPLETE should mean that not all the expected images have been built. So, if you find the ISO you are looking for, it should boot.
So, you found a good Fedora-Workstation-Live ISO, but maybe if you looked for say the Xfce ISO it isn't available or some other ISO that is part of the build.
On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 07:13 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually get me to fedora 31? thanks.Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
i'm still curious about the meaning of the STATUS file there, as what i see currently is:
COMPOSE_ID = Fedora-31-20190826.n.0 STATUS = FINISHED_INCOMPLETE
but if i wander down to find the ISO, i get what appears to be a perfectly installable:
Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-31-20190826.n.0.iso
so i don't know what FINISHED_INCOMPLETE means in the context of what appears to be a perfectly complete and working ISO.
We build a lot more than the Workstation live image as part of the compose process. We build other live images, installer images, ARM disk images, Cloud images and various other things.
The various things that can be produced by a compose are categorized as 'critical' or 'not critical'. If any single 'critical' deliverable fails to build successfully, the compose is considered a failure and the status will be set to DOOMED. All remaining tasks in the compose are abandoned at that point. If any single 'not critical' deliverable fails to build successfully, the compose continues without that deliverable; if all 'critical' deliverables then complete successfully, the compose will be considered a success but with the status FINISHED_INCOMPLETE. Only if *all* deliverables, critical and non- critical, are built successfully will the status be FINISHED.
There are so many deliverables for Branched and Rawhide composes that at least one of them fails just about every time. I'm not sure we've ever had a FINISHED Rawhide or Branched compose.
Sure there are better explanations but...
DOOMED: a mandatory step for our blocking deliverables failed. x86_64 workstation dvd iso can't build for example FINISHED_INCOMPLETE: a non blocking deliverable failed. x86_64 xfce dvd iso for example
FINISHED (i'm not sure, didn't see it for a while): all was built
On August 28, 2019 1:13:09 PM GMT+02:00, "Robert P. J. Day" rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Alessio wrote:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019, 7:07 PM Robert P. J. Day
rpjday@crashcourse.ca wrote:
what is the *proper* ISO to install that will eventually getme to
fedora 31? thanks.Hello. I think you should look here: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/
Check the STATUS file to see if the building is still in progress.
i'm still curious about the meaning of the STATUS file there, as what i see currently is:
COMPOSE_ID = Fedora-31-20190826.n.0 STATUS = FINISHED_INCOMPLETE
but if i wander down to find the ISO, i get what appears to be a perfectly installable:
Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-31-20190826.n.0.iso
so i don't know what FINISHED_INCOMPLETE means in the context of what appears to be a perfectly complete and working ISO.
rday
Julen Landa Alustiza jlanda@fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 5:12 PM Julen Landa Alustiza jlanda@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Sure there are better explanations but...
DOOMED: a mandatory step for our blocking deliverables failed. x86_64 workstation dvd iso can't build for example FINISHED_INCOMPLETE: a non blocking deliverable failed. x86_64 xfce dvd iso for example FINISHED (i'm not sure, didn't see it for a while): all was built
Hello. Just a doubt. But, if Workstation/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Workstation-netinst is a blocking deliverable (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/31/ReleaseBlocking). And such ISO is not there, why is the result of Fedora-31-20190907.n.0 compose FINISHED_INCOMPLETE and not DOOMED?
Thanks, ciao.
A.
On Sat, 2019-09-07 at 14:43 +0200, Alessio wrote:
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 5:12 PM Julen Landa Alustiza jlanda@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Sure there are better explanations but...
DOOMED: a mandatory step for our blocking deliverables failed. x86_64 workstation dvd iso can't build for example FINISHED_INCOMPLETE: a non blocking deliverable failed. x86_64 xfce dvd iso for example FINISHED (i'm not sure, didn't see it for a while): all was built
Hello. Just a doubt. But, if Workstation/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Workstation-netinst is a blocking deliverable (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/31/ReleaseBlocking). And such ISO is not there, why is the result of Fedora-31-20190907.n.0 compose FINISHED_INCOMPLETE and not DOOMED?
That's actually a great question! The answer is basically this ticket:
https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/45 i.e., we just don't make the Workstation install tree at all any more. Which means no Workstation-specific network install image is even attempted to be generated; so composes don't die because it "fails", because we don't even try to build it.
However, the list of release-blocking deliverables clearly needs to be updated for this change. I'm CCing Ben Cotton and Michael Catanzaro just to be sure, but I assume everyone would be fine with just dropping the Workstation netinst from the release-blocking images list, based on the conversation in the ticket.
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Adam Williamson -
alciregi＠gmail.com -
Alessio
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Ed Greshko -
Julen Landa Alustiza -
Robert P. J. Day -
stan