3:38 p.m.
Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at all?
If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
-d
--
Dimitris Glezos
Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/
4:45 p.m.
2010/3/13 Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com>:
Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at
all?
If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
Since Fedora 7 I see man pages in Spanish.
The package is man-pages-es.
We (Fedora L10N) are not translating it.
I must say that section 3 (C Library functions), the one I use too
much, is correctly translated.
It would be nice if we can contribute to it's translation, either from
t.fp.o or from tx.n
kind regards
Domingo Becker (es)
4:41 p.m.
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Domingo Becker
<domingobecker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2010/3/13 Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com>:
> Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at all?
> If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
>
> I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
> them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
Since Fedora 7 I see man pages in Spanish.
The package is man-pages-es.
We (Fedora L10N) are not translating it.
I must say that section 3 (C Library functions), the one I use too
much, is correctly translated.
It would be nice if we can contribute to it's translation, either from
t.fp.o or from tx.n
It seems that each project is pulling the translations from a
different place. Which makes it probably safe to assume that people
are doing duplicate work.
It'd be great if we could start a discussion on how this could be
improved. Grab all PO files for a bunch of languages, msgmerge them,
push them to a common repo, and setup Transifex to send translations
there. Then we can email the package maintainers to switch to this
repo.
Or am I day-dreaming again for a world where there is one global
translation community?
-d
--
Dimitris Glezos
Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/
7:12 p.m.
This is definitely a redhot topic for Russian team as we have quite a
few members interested in translating manpages.
It seems that up until now manpages have been translated by separate
groups of enthusiasts across different projects
and there hasn't been one centralized resource.
I agree with Dimitris and would like to think that transfiex.net could
make it possible to unite all interested parties.
It seems that each project is pulling the translations from a
different place. Which makes it probably safe to assume that people
are doing duplicate work.
It'd be great if we could start a discussion on how this could be
improved. Grab all PO files for a bunch of languages, msgmerge them,
push them to a common repo, and setup Transifex to send translations
there. Then we can email the package maintainers to switch to this
repo.
Or am I day-dreaming again for a world where there is one global
translation community?
-d
--
Yulia Poyarkova
Red Hat APAC
http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer
9:03 a.m.
Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:38:45 +0200,
Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com> a écrit :
Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at all?
If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
-d
Hi,
Just to comment the second part. I recently switch the source of the
man-pages-fr package to the Debian's one. Excluding the easiness of
translating po files instead of man files, this Debian project has a
cool initiative : they collected the patches from the Fedora's man-pages
package, created a dedicate file to translate this changes, and
eventually built a tarball for Fedora with our patches included. And
they do this for almost every distro.
For now, they use a git repo to manage the po files. I suggest them to
use Transifex as a front-end (Tx.net or a dedicated instance) but they
prefer to wait for having more distro around the table before using a
more user friendly interface.
Pablo
4:15 p.m.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Pablo Martin-Gomez
<pablo.martin-gomez(a)laposte.net> wrote:
Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:38:45 +0200,
Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com> a écrit :
> Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at all?
> If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
>
> I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
> them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
Just to comment the second part. I recently switch the source of the
man-pages-fr package to the Debian's one. Excluding the easiness of
translating po files instead of man files, this Debian project has a
cool initiative : they collected the patches from the Fedora's man-pages
package, created a dedicate file to translate this changes, and
eventually built a tarball for Fedora with our patches included. And
they do this for almost every distro.
For now, they use a git repo to manage the po files. I suggest them to
use Transifex as a front-end (Tx.net or a dedicated instance) but they
prefer to wait for having more distro around the table before using a
more user friendly interface.
Hey Pablo.
This is really cool. What git repo is it? Is this only for the french
manpages? If yes, can it be extended to all languages?
Maybe we could start a discussion off-mailing list (since lots of CC's
of unsubscribed users will lead to chaos) and get the opinion of more
people?
-d
--
Dimitris Glezos
Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/
5:16 p.m.
2010/3/21 Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com>:
This is really cool. What git repo is it? Is this only for the french
manpages? If yes, can it be extended to all languages?
I will take a look at where manpages-es is maintained.
Maybe we could start a discussion off-mailing list (since lots of
CC's
of unsubscribed users will lead to chaos) and get the opinion of more
people?
Why? Where to?
I think this is the list for that discussion!
If you start a discussion somewhere else, would you please CC me?
Considering they are easily accessible through System -> Help and
typing "man xxxx" in the search box, I would like to be able to
improve their translations from within Fedora L10N Project.
kind regards
Domingo Becker (es)
5:33 p.m.
2010/3/21 Domingo Becker <domingobecker(a)gmail.com>:
2010/3/21 Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com>:
>
> This is really cool. What git repo is it? Is this only for the french
> manpages? If yes, can it be extended to all languages?
>
I will take a look at where manpages-es is maintained.
According to System->Administration->Add/Remove Software and then
search for man-pages-es, I've got a home page [1] for the project.
If so, their online tools [2] are primitive compared to ours (Fedora's).
I will contact them later.
[1] http://ditec.um.es/~piernas/manpages-es/
[2] http://ditec.um.es/~piernas/manpages-es/paquetes.html
kind regards
Domingo Becker (es)
1:17 p.m.
Le Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:15:04 +0200,
Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com> a écrit :
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Pablo Martin-Gomez
<pablo.martin-gomez(a)laposte.net> wrote:
> Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:38:45 +0200,
> Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com> a écrit :
>
>> Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at
>> all? If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
>>
>> I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
>> them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
>
> Just to comment the second part. I recently switch the source of the
> man-pages-fr package to the Debian's one. Excluding the easiness of
> translating po files instead of man files, this Debian project has a
> cool initiative : they collected the patches from the Fedora's
> man-pages package, created a dedicate file to translate this
> changes, and eventually built a tarball for Fedora with our patches
> included. And they do this for almost every distro.
>
> For now, they use a git repo to manage the po files. I suggest them
> to use Transifex as a front-end (Tx.net or a dedicated instance)
> but they prefer to wait for having more distro around the table
> before using a more user friendly interface.
Hey Pablo.
This is really cool. What git repo is it? Is this only for the french
manpages? If yes, can it be extended to all languages?
Maybe we could start a discussion off-mailing list (since lots of CC's
of unsubscribed users will lead to chaos) and get the opinion of more
people?
-d
As Ruediger said, they use po4a to translate from and to the .man
files. Specifically, there is a framework based on po4a, perkamon,
which the git is : http://gitorious.com/perkamon.
Even if it's french-centred, I think perkamon have already be use for
translating man-pages to Japanese.
I've being in contact with the guy behind the project about this. He
will surely contact you soon.
Pablo
3:03 p.m.
Le Samedi 20 Mars 2010 15:03:53, Pablo Martin-Gomez a écrit :
Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:38:45 +0200,
Dimitris Glezos <glezos(a)indifex.com> a écrit :
> Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at all?
> If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
>
> I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
> them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
>
> -d
Hi,
Just to comment the second part. I recently switch the source of the
man-pages-fr package to the Debian's one.
A great decision!
I understand now why there is no more french translation for system calls or
glibc function.
As a next step, can I suggest you to completaly remove the package?
Excluding the easiness of
translating po files instead of man files,
What do you know about translating man pages?
this Debian project has a
cool initiative : they collected the patches from the Fedora's man-pages
package, created a dedicate file to translate this changes, and
eventually built a tarball for Fedora with our patches included. And
they do this for almost every distro.
And on every distro, we'll can see in a lot of pages "Debian, Debian, Debian,
Debian, ..."
--
Les pages de manuel Linux en français
http://manpagesfr.free.fr
8:59 a.m.
2010/3/22 Alain Portal <alain.portal(a)free.fr>:
What do you know about translating man pages?
It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
That conversion should be a bijective function.
I have no idea if there's a program to do that.
Gettext support for man pages would be great.
The current version for man pages is 3.24 and its sources are available at [1].
The man-pages-es version included in Fedora 12 is 1.55.
So, there's a lot of work to do.
Juan Piernas, the Pameli's maintainer, has no problem with helping us
to restart the Spanish translation within Fedora infrastructrure [2].
Any ideas about the conversion tools to use are welcome.
kind regards
Domingo Becker (es)
[1] http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/man-pages
[2] Transcription of the email from Pameli's maintainer
===== begin transcription =====
El día 6 de abril de 2010 04:12, Juan PC <piernas(a)ditec.um.es> escribió:
Hola Domingo:
Pues la verdad es que sería estupendo que alguien retomara el trabajo y
continuara con la traducción de las páginas de manual y el mantenimiento
de las mismas.
La última versión que nosotros tradujimos fue la 1.55, pero la versión
actual es la 3.24 [1], por lo que, muy probablemente, haya bastantes
páginas de manual desactualizadas y otras muchas todavía sin traducir.
En el caso de las páginas de manual, no se trabaja con ficheros .pot
sino que se traduce el fuente directamente respetando el formato
nroff/troff propio de estos documentos.
El proceso de traducción, por tanto, consistiría en:
1.- Comparar las versión 1.55 y 3.24 originales (en inglés) y ver lo que
ha cambiado de una a otra.
2.- Actualizar la traducción en español (la 1.55) en función de las
diferencias detectadas en el paso anterior.
Probablemente haya otra forma de hacer que el proceso sea más sencillo.
Si decidís poneros con la traducción, adelante, sin ningún problema. Si
os puedo ayudar en algo más, no dudes en ponerte en contacto conmigo.
Saludos.
Juan
[1] http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/man-pages
El dom, 04-04-2010 a las 14:54 -0300, Domingo Becker escribió:
> Estimado Juan Piernas Cánovas,
>
> Te escribo para consultarte sobre el estado actual de las páginas del
> manual en Español.
> Pareciera ser que desde hace tiempo que no hay movimiento.
>
> Tenemos un equipo de traducción al español bastante dinámico en el
> Proyecto Fedora [1].
> Actualmente estamos casi sin trabajo (digamos desde hace unos meses
> ya), debido a que ya está todo traducido. :-)
> Por eso quiero encarar el trabajo de la traducción (lo que falte
> hacer) de las páginas del manual, y mantenerlo actualizado a partir de
> ahí.
> En Fedora tenemos la infraestructura para realizarlo [2] y quería
> saber por donde empezar para rejuntar los archivos fuente de los .pot
> y las traducciones actuales.
> Un conjunto de archivos .pot nos darían la posibilidad de crear un
> módulo y posibilitar la traducción a 104 idiomas [3], entre ellos el
> español.
>
> ¿Es posible arrancar desde el trabajo actual de Uds.?
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N
>
> [2] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/
>
> [3] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/languages/
>
> saludos
>
> Domingo Becker
> Equipo de Traducción al Español
> Proyecto Fedora
--
D. Juan Piernas Cánovas
Departamento de Ingeniería y Tecnología de Computadores
Facultad de Informática. Universidad de Murcia
Campus de Espinardo - 30080 Murcia (SPAIN)
Tel.: +34868887657 Fax: +34868884151
email: piernas(a)ditec.um.es
PGP public key:
http://pgp.rediris.es:11371/pks/lookup?search=piernas%
40ditec.um.es&op=index
*** Por favor, envíeme sus documentos en formato texto, HTML, PDF o
PostScript :-) ***
You have new mail in /var/spool/mail/piernas
===== end transcription =====
12:36 p.m.
Le Mardi 6 Avril 2010 15:59:13, Domingo Becker a écrit :
2010/3/22 Alain Portal <alain.portal(a)free.fr>:
> What do you know about translating man pages?
It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
This isn't so complicated, there is just a few nroff macros to learn and
understand.
I became upstream of the french man-pages translation in june 2005
(http://manpagesfr.free.fr/news.html) where my first release was 1.59.
In 3.03 version, there are 837 man pages, I translated 150 of them and updated
all 837, alone, and with only two tools: kwrite and diff.
I translated also 93 man pages taken other vanilla (createrepo, diffutils,
docbook-utils, initscripts, nfs-utils, openjade, opensp, pciutils, procps, rp-
pppoe, sysvinit, util-linux-ng, yum, yum-utils, etc.)
Just to say, there is really not complicated to translate man page directly in
nroff format.
So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
In po format, there is no more context :-(
That conversion should be a bijective function.
I have no idea if there's a program to do that.
There is...
Gettext support for man pages would be great.
The current version for man pages is 3.24 and its sources are available at
[1]. The man-pages-es version included in Fedora 12 is 1.55.
So, there's a lot of work to do.
Juan Piernas, the Pameli's maintainer, has no problem with helping us
to restart the Spanish translation within Fedora infrastructrure [2].
Sorry, I don't understand spanish.
Regards,
Alain
--
Les pages de manuel Linux en français
http://manpagesfr.free.fr
6:31 p.m.
On 04/06/2010 11:59 PM, Domingo Becker wrote:
It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
po4a (PO for All) can do manpage-to-PO and back:
http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
This is already packaged for Fedora -- to try it out,
yum install po4a
then to convert a manpage called cgget.1 into a PO file (for example, in
fr-FR):
po4a-gettextize -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po
then, to apply the PO file to the manpage:
po4a-translate -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po -l cgget.fr.1
(NB -- I don't know the naming conventions for translated manpages --
this is an example only).
Works great :)
Rudi
8:53 p.m.
2010/4/6 Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann(a)redhat.com>:
On 04/06/2010 11:59 PM, Domingo Becker wrote:
>
> It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
> Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
> So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
> translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
>
po4a (PO for All) can do manpage-to-PO and back:
http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
This is already packaged for Fedora -- to try it out,
yum install po4a
then to convert a manpage called cgget.1 into a PO file (for example, in
fr-FR):
po4a-gettextize -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po
then, to apply the PO file to the manpage:
po4a-translate -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po -l cgget.fr.1
(NB -- I don't know the naming conventions for translated manpages --
this is an example only).
Thanks a lot, Rudi! :-)
That's what I'm talking about.
Dimitris: you started this thread. What's the procedure to ask for a
new package in translate.fp.o?
The package I want to create is man-pages-es with multiple .po files.
kind regards
Domingo Becker (es)
1:41 a.m.
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Domingo Becker <domingobecker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2010/4/6 Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann(a)redhat.com>:
> On 04/06/2010 11:59 PM, Domingo Becker wrote:
>>
>> It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
>> Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
>> So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
>> translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
>>
>
> po4a (PO for All) can do manpage-to-PO and back:
> http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
>
> This is already packaged for Fedora -- to try it out,
>
> yum install po4a
>
> then to convert a manpage called cgget.1 into a PO file (for example, in
> fr-FR):
>
> po4a-gettextize -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po
>
> then, to apply the PO file to the manpage:
>
> po4a-translate -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po -l cgget.fr.1
>
> (NB -- I don't know the naming conventions for translated manpages --
> this is an example only).
Thanks a lot, Rudi! :-)
That's what I'm talking about.
Domingo, you can take a look on how some others are doing it. I'm
pretty sure these problems were already faced and solved.
Dimitris: you started this thread. What's the procedure to ask
for a
new package in translate.fp.o?
The package I want to create is man-pages-es with multiple .po files.
Take a look at the documentation on the wiki, and search for an
existing spec file to copy:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers
Now, given the cross-distro nature of this topic, I think it's time to
start thinking how to share this work between communities. I'd love to
see some of our translators got in touch with their language's
ambassador in e.g. Debian and started a thread.
-d
--
Dimitris Glezos
Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/
12:25 p.m.
This could be our solution. Can we merge the package descriptions at
several/many packages? Is it possible to somehow organize an common database
for packages? Is it possible to unite the already made translations? Common
manpages/uniformized descriptions between distributions, behind with
transifex? Hmmmm.... quite interesting.... :)
2010/4/7 Dimitris Glezos <dimitris(a)glezos.com>
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Domingo Becker
<domingobecker(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> 2010/4/6 Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann(a)redhat.com>:
>> On 04/06/2010 11:59 PM, Domingo Becker wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems to be a bit more complicated than translating po files.
>>> Man pages are in nroff/troff format.
>>> So the problem here is to convert that format to .po format to allow
>>> translations with our tools and then back to nroff/troff format.
>>>
>>
>> po4a (PO for All) can do manpage-to-PO and back:
>> http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
>>
>> This is already packaged for Fedora -- to try it out,
>>
>> yum install po4a
>>
>> then to convert a manpage called cgget.1 into a PO file (for example, in
>> fr-FR):
>>
>> po4a-gettextize -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po
>>
>> then, to apply the PO file to the manpage:
>>
>> po4a-translate -f man -m cgget.1 -p cgget-fr-FR.po -l cgget.fr.1
>>
>> (NB -- I don't know the naming conventions for translated manpages --
>> this is an example only).
>
> Thanks a lot, Rudi! :-)
> That's what I'm talking about.
Domingo, you can take a look on how some others are doing it. I'm
pretty sure these problems were already faced and solved.
> Dimitris: you started this thread. What's the procedure to ask for a
> new package in translate.fp.o?
> The package I want to create is man-pages-es with multiple .po files.
Take a look at the documentation on the wiki, and search for an
existing spec file to copy:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers
Now, given the cross-distro nature of this topic, I think it's time to
start thinking how to share this work between communities. I'd love to
see some of our translators got in touch with their language's
ambassador in e.g. Debian and started a thread.
-d
--
Dimitris Glezos
Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/
--
trans mailing list
trans(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
--
PGP: 06853DF7
8:32 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 03/13/2010 04:38 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
Here's a Q: How are manpages translated? Are they translated at
all?
If they are translated somehow, how would they be packaged?
I see Debian having a few teams collecting manpages and translating
them via PO files. Sounds like a good meta-distro-project of sorts.
-d
I want to derail this thread slightly. How would one go about
configuring a project to enable translations of manpages by Transifex?
My project (SSSD) already uses Transifex for translating user messages,
but I'd like for us to be able to make the manpages available for
translation as well.
We write our manpages in Docbook XML, so it can be easily converted into
Troff, HTML, etc.
My question is: how can we extract strings from this XML so that we can
add them to the .pot file for Transifex?
- --
Stephen Gallagher
RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year.
Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors.
http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
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11:02 a.m.
написане Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:32:18 +0300, Stephen Gallagher
<sgallagh(a)redhat.com>:
I want to derail this thread slightly. How would one go about
configuring a project to enable translations of manpages by Transifex?
My project (SSSD) already uses Transifex for translating user messages,
but I'd like for us to be able to make the manpages available for
translation as well.
We write our manpages in Docbook XML, so it can be easily converted into
Troff, HTML, etc.
My question is: how can we extract strings from this XML so that we can
add them to the .pot file for Transifex?
Hi!
You can use xml2po (gnome-doc-utils) or xml2pot (kdesdk-po2xml). DocBook
has nothing with man groff format.
To automate export process you can use some script
(DocBook->xml2pot->pot->Transifex->po->po2xml->Translated docbooks).
Best regards,
Yuri
5120
days inactive
5151
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17 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Alain PORTAL -
Dimitris Glezos -
Dimitris Glezos -
Domingo Becker -
pablo.martin-gomez -
Ruediger Landmann -
Stephen Gallagher -
Yuliya Poyarkova -
Yuri Chornoivan -
Zoltan Hoppar