10:39 a.m.
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
Bill
10:55 a.m.
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git,
mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Subversion please. If not CVS is ok.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Defintely if possible and handled properly.
Best regards,
Adnan
On 2/22/07, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Some random questions...
>
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git,
mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
>
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
>
> Bill
>
> --
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> Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>
10:59 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:39:10AM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Speaking for the Welsh translation group CVS is ok because it is available
on Windows and some translators prefer to use windows based po tools on
their desktop. Git/Mercurial and friends might be problematic, especially as
git requires some skill to use and easily breaks.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Much of the translation is already done this way
http://www.kyfieithu.co.uk/index.php?lg=en&
and I'm sure Kevin would be delighted to see us use the GPL code if it
was useful to Red Hat. Unlike Ubuntu launchpad it is open source and it
supports translation of the web environment itself into multiple languages.
Alan
[the bit left in Welsh is a poem, not anything you need to follow to use it
(something like
Magical is the wizards fire of ideas
that is used to pick old bytes/chunks
from the mine of language to be revitalized
into the gold of new words
)
]
11:02 a.m.
For a bit of background...
Bill Nottingham (notting(a)redhat.com) said:
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git,
mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Already in Fedora hosted projects, we have apps that may need translating
in mercurial, git, and CVS....
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
... and this would be the 'simplest' way to hide the SCM details from the
translator.
Bill
11:18 a.m.
On 2/22/07, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
svn, cvs is ok.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Sure!
Pootle can be used in Fedora localization, which is similar to
rosetta/launchpad. You can check it on, http://pootle.wordforge.org/
Regards,
`Jamil
11:18 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Bill Nottingham schreef:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Hmm, this would bring a big hassle to the project if we've got to use
different SCM's per application. It would complicate matters in any way.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Sure, IIRC we've been asking this. Suggestion aswell, look at Pootle.
It's written in Python which is/"would be" considered good by Fedora
Infrastructure.
Pootle: http://translate.sourceforge.net/
Demo-site: http://pootle.wordforge.org/
Bart
- --
Bart <couf(a)fedoraproject.org> <couf(a)skynet.be>
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFF3dBJrbZrKtk/D5MRApg5AJ9B0QZ8IAYI+/4qAvhkrLXMCAng1ACeITgf
mr5UmVYGtvHWdKTWPqbsWSo=
=BI7h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
11:20 a.m.
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I don't know... so far, my CVS attempts ended in failure.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Sure thing!
Diosnel
11:28 a.m.
Le jeudi 22 février 2007 à 11:39 -0500, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Do you mean that the translation files of chkconfig would be accessible
by one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs ? And that
the translation files of (let's say...) anaconda would be accessible by
one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs, and that these
2 softwares translation file would not be accessible by the same
software ?
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
Yes, definitely.
Thomas
11:52 a.m.
Thomas Canniot (thomas.canniot(a)laposte.net) said:
Do you mean that the translation files of chkconfig would be
accessible
by one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs ? And that
the translation files of (let's say...) anaconda would be accessible by
one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs, and that these
2 softwares translation file would not be accessible by the same
software ?
Right.
Bill
12:21 p.m.
Le jeudi 22 février 2007 à 12:52 -0500, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
Thomas Canniot (thomas.canniot(a)laposte.net) said:
> Do you mean that the translation files of chkconfig would be accessible
> by one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs ? And that
> the translation files of (let's say...) anaconda would be accessible by
> one (and only one) of git, mercurial, subversion, or cvs, and that these
> 2 softwares translation file would not be accessible by the same
> software ?
Right.
Then my answer is 'no'. I think it is clearly against the simplification
process translators were asking for.
Thomas
11:30 a.m.
On Thursday 22 February 2007 18:39:10 Bill Nottingham wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
1. I only know how to use cvs, but i could use anything as long as someone
writes a for "dummies" tutorial :)
I'dd say it's Ok
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
2. "*all* translating" .. if it's not really "all", it's
optional (i could
still use cvs), it would be excelent
11:45 a.m.
to, 2007-02-22 kello 11:39 -0500, Bill Nottingham kirjoitti:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I only know CVS and Subversion, but as long as the basic update/commit
functionality of the others is not significantly more complicated than
that of cvs/svn, I don't see a big problem.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Definitely NOT. Using one's favorite editor will always be quicker and
more comfortable than even a very good web-based user interface.
11:51 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 07:45:20PM +0200, Lauri Nurmi wrote:
Definitely NOT. Using one's favorite editor will always be
quicker and
more comfortable than even a very good web-based user interface.
You are assuming the web interface doesn't include functionality for
"download, lock, upload, unlock" of a .po file. Kyfieithu does support
download in .po but not upload (because it doesn't currently deal with all
the locking rights questions that leads to), no idea about pootle although
pootle seems to also lack tools for consistency checking/suggestion unless
I looked in the wrong place.
Alan
3:59 a.m.
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 12:51 -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 07:45:20PM +0200, Lauri Nurmi wrote:
> Definitely NOT. Using one's favorite editor will always be quicker and
> more comfortable than even a very good web-based user interface.
You are assuming the web interface doesn't include functionality for
"download, lock, upload, unlock" of a .po file. Kyfieithu does support
download in .po but not upload (because it doesn't currently deal with all
the locking rights questions that leads to), no idea about pootle although
pootle seems to also lack tools for consistency checking/suggestion unless
I looked in the wrong place.
Yip you looked in the wrong place:
- It allows suggestions, which a translator can review and include
- It include the 40+ checks from the Translate Toolkit which checks for
simple things like starting caps, punctuation, etc. The toolkit has
just added a language module so the checks can be adapted to each
language (this needs integration into Pootle).
Pootle allows upload of files. The default behaviour turns your changes
into suggestions, but you can optionally overwrite the file with your
changes. This behaviour comes from the idea that we treat version
control as authoritative. The advantage being that programmers can make
changes in version control and also that some contributors can make
changes directly with version control.
Pootle also does terminology matching, across the whole of Pootle or on
a per project basis. Plus we can do Translation Memory, not live, but
you could easily automate with a cronjob.
--
Dwayne Bailey
Translate.org.za
+27-12-460-1095 (w)
+27-83-443-7114 (cell)
12:51 p.m.
On 2/22/07, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Subversion, or maybe cvs. Both can be used in a Windows environment.
The other ones I don't know about. I don't like to be forced using a certain
tool.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
I would be ok, but I prefer using my translation application of choice. Web
is good for viewing information not so much for editing. You don't need to
install anything with a web tool, but using an application is faster, has
more features and more flexible.
It is not that much difference. It would be great if you could have both and
let the translator choose...
1:15 p.m.
Em Thursday, 22 de February de 2007 16:39, o Bill Nottingham escreveu:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I rather
prefer to use one and only VCS. Separating different applications in
different repositories will generate management issues, especially for people
like the PT team, which has automatic hourly Web pages to report the
translation status.
My suggestion would be to use Subversion (I'm a KDE translator as well, and
they've migrated their repositories to SVN - besides the power features and
repository frontends). But CVS is OK for us.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
Without PO file download/upload features, I won't
agree. Most of the time, I'm
a massive translator, who updates translations in bursts, and the active PT
team has just 2 collaborators at the moment, besides some co-collaborators,
so there are no translation conflicts, most of the time.
Besides that, to control translation inconsistencies, spelling errors and
syntax errors, the PT team uses the Gettext-Lint (http://gettext-lint.sf.net)
automated tools. A Web-only management would be very complicated for us, in
that case.
Bill
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E-Mail: jose.pires(a)inov.pt
1:21 p.m.
Em Qui, 2007-02-22 às 11:39 -0500, Bill Nottingham escreveu:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I'm ok with cvs or subversion. I'm dreaming about something like GNOME's
"Dammed Lies" for Fedora on the future.
Give a look at: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Yes, but only if the two ways will be available, local and web-based.
Regards,
Igor Pires Soares
1:38 p.m.
Igor Pires Soares (igorsoares(a)gmail.com) said:
> 1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git,
mercurial,
> subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I'm ok with cvs or subversion. I'm dreaming about something like GNOME's
"Dammed Lies" for Fedora on the future.
Give a look at: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/
Damned Lies is only a stats-based frontend, right - it doesn't actually
help you add/submit translations?
Bill
1:21 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:39:10AM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
It is fine as it is now, but other ways could also be OK.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
I would not appreciate it. I prefer to use my own tools, and then commit
it. In some cases this improves my productivity by maybe 80 %.
I would not oppose at system where some may translate via the web and
others as they please and checking it in.
Best regards
keld
2:41 p.m.
On 2/22/07, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> wrote:
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git,
mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
No, I wouldn't like to have to manage more than one system and set of
modules. It's wasteful and error prone - translators are usually not
as tech savvy as developers.
CVS is ok for now, but also wouldn't mind if everything moved to SVN
as both work on Win just as well.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
I'm open to the option, but haven't seen a good interface yet. The
Serbian team is using evaluating Pootle a bit, but it leaves a lot to
be desired atm. No diffs or any kind of changelogs, no immediate
visual feedback from new suggestions, reviewing suggestions is very
unwieldy, if you can find the option that is, as someone already
mentioned...
My preference is to edit locally and upload via webUI or commit
through CVS/SVN most of the time.
Regards,
Miloš
4:56 p.m.
Dana Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:39:10 +0100, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com>
napisali ste:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
svn or cvs
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
Absolutely NOT! translating offline is the only way I have acces to
spellchecker, translations database and cross-checking with references.
Also, I can work on translation even if my Internet connection is broken
(common thing in my country). And, I do not like to use web-browsers for
work - browsers are for browsing. For translating jobs I use translation
apps.
Instead of this effor I suggest adding a POT column into language progress
list.
Best regards
Renato
Bill
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Best regards,
Renato Pavicic
mailto:repavici@globalnet.hr
also mailto:renato@translator-shop.org
homepage: www.translator-shop.org
Official Opera translator for Croatian language since April 2006
6:11 p.m.
From: Renato PaviÄiÄ <repavici(a)globalnet.hr>
>Some random questions...
>
>1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
> subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
svn or cvs
And an option to download only the file needed when checking out, instead of
the whole project.
>
>2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
> a web-based application?
Absolutely NOT! translating offline is the only way I have acces to
spellchecker, translations database and cross-checking with references.
Also, I can work on translation even if my Internet connection is broken
(common thing in my country). And, I do not like to use web-browsers for
work - browsers are for browsing. For translating jobs I use translation
apps.
The same to me.
I usually work offline. And sometimes my internet connection does not work
fine.
So, a web-based application would not be useful for me.
Domingo Becker
_________________________________________________________________
Visita MSN Latino Entretenimiento: ¡música, cine, chismes, TV y más...!
http://latino.msn.com/entretenimiento/
5:12 p.m.
On Thursday 22 Feb 2007 10:09:10 pm you wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
svn/cvs only as most teams are not very familier with git/mercurial
svn/cvs are most commonly used in gnome/kde etc projects
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
No, better to have POT/PO files available thorough web
instead to checking out
whole modules
regrds
ABrar
3:37 a.m.
Hi Bill,
2007/2/22, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com>:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
No, i wouldn't be OK.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
Bill
This question is by far too generic. Tell which one.
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5:02 a.m.
2007/2/22, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com>:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I'm ok with cvs. I don't know the other one.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
I'm ok if both ways are available. In case it *only* web-based, I think it
is not a good idea.
Bill
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Linux User #402589
USE SOFTWARE LIVRE
1:02 p.m.
Bill Nottingham kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Thursday 22 February 2007
18:39:10):
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
1) Depending on the app, no. It would be best to just use one VCS, I prefer
svn or cvs but any of the others would do if there were good tutorials on how
to use them.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
If that would be the only way, then definitely not. I translate one PHP based
app with a web interface and it's not nearly as efficient as using my
favourite editors and a VCS.
However, a web interface might be one option, if those who want could still
use the "traditional" way.
--
Ville-Pekka Vainio
vpivaini(a)cs.helsinki.fi
1:29 p.m.
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:39:10 -0000, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
Sure, fine, subversion and cvs are common technologies with help all over
the place. Where you can improve over some of the other translation
projects is to give exact and specific information of what to do for each
situation (e.g. regular translation, adding new translation ad nauseam).
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
I have no problems with any package, whether it is web based, application
based or anything else, as long as it meets my requirements; as I
translate from en_US to en_GB, I only need to change a few strings, the
lion's share are copied verbatim. So my major requirement is to be able to
easily copy the original text from original to translation, preferably en
masse.
dave
6:26 a.m.
Bill Nottingham wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
subversion/cvs OK.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
a web-based application?
That's great!
Best Regards,
Joel Gump
11:29 a.m.
On Sat, 2007-02-24 at 20:26 +0800, joel.gump wrote:
Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Some random questions...
>
> 1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
> subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
>
subversion/cvs OK.
I would be happy with either git, mercurial, etc, if they help the
developers to be more productive or it simplifies the infrastructure.
However, the respective tools should be available as packages in Fedora
and can be easily installed. In addition, the commands that the
translator should be exposed to for the translation work should be
simple and well-explained.
> 2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating
through
> a web-based application?
Web-based translation has lower responsiveness, when going from one
message to the next. Other tools (Rosetta, Pootle) require by default to
use the mouse to go to the next message. I find that too distracting.
I would see a web-based application beneficial if it allows the team
leader to pick and choose those translation domains to make available
for web-translation, get many people to contribute in parallel, then
export the .po file for final checking and submission.
In other works, it would be desirable if the web-application had these
modes of working:
1. Completely bypass the web-application, use as now.
2. The team leader picks those packages and makes available through the
web-based application. The web-based application allows work in parallel
and many submissions, then the team leader to view and pick the
appropriate choice. She then may hit an option to send the translation
upstream, or export as .po file and upload using svn, cvs, etc.
3. Complete web-based translation. No requirement to deal with version
control systems.
I recognise that all this may add too much complexity to the translation
system.
Simos
10:49 p.m.
Bill Nottingham wrote:
Some random questions...
1) Would you, as a translator, be OK with having to use git, mercurial,
subversion, or cvs, depending on which app you're translating?
I prefer using single system, subversion is highly preferred. In my
opinion, cross SCM should be handled on the server side, where it is
more accessible to administrators, and less problem to the translators.
I'm sure there is a way to cross import various SCM repository to
subversion. If not, then the next logical, forward thinking way is to
have a standard way to store SCM data, so that it is accessible to
various SCM out there.
2) Would you, as a translator, be OK with doing all translating through
a web-based application?
Yes, and no.
Yes, if it can help improve the participation of new translators.
No, because I prefer doing it the current way, by updating the source
via CVS, translating it, then committing it to the repository.
Web application is not a blanket solution to all problem.
Bill
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30 comments
25 participants
participants (25)
-
A S Alam -
Adnan Hodzic -
Alan Cox -
Bart Couvreur -
Bill Nottingham -
Boris Becker -
David Lodge -
Diego Búrigo Zacarão -
Diosnel Herrnsdorf -
dwayne＠translate.org.za -
Igor Pires Soares -
Jamil Ahmed -
joel.gump -
Jose Nuno Coelho Pires -
Keld Jørn Simonsen -
Lauri Nurmi -
Magnus Larsson -
Miloš Komarčević -
Renato Pavičić -
Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan -
Simos Xenitellis -
Thomas Canniot -
Ville-Pekka Vainio -
visez.trance＠gmail.com -
Xavi Conde