On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Tom Rivers wrote:

On 7/9/2014 09:57, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Sure but if you want to go against the consensus, you will have to do something more concrete.

That is precisely why I challenged your assertion that the value of systemd was because everyone was adopting it. The reason you gave for dismissing all of the gripes about systemd was anything but concrete.

You are conflating two different discussions here. I just pointed out that there is a consensus among a diverse set of distributions which have adopted systemd as the default in response to a discussion about voting in Debian. That has nothing to do with addressing potential issues. If there are concrete criticisms, they should ideally be in the form of bug reports to reach the developers directly. However when I come across misunderstandings, I point them out. I must note that so far haven't read much in the thread in terms of concrete issues and if there are any, burying it in the midst of a long thread isn't helpful which goes back to my suggestion on filing bug reports instead.

>So basically the world desperately needs what logind does and since there was no alternative, all the other negative aspects of >systemd must be tolerated as a result.

Well no, that isn't what I said but if anyone is pushing for alternatives, they should understand that systemd isn't just a init system and some of the tools that are part of systemd project have no real alternatives at all (logind is just one example). The interfaces are well documented and developing a replacement is feasible if needed (not that I buy into that claim).

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart/

Rahul