12:24 p.m.
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
11:02 p.m.
On 06/03/2011 04:51 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 19:44, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
> Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
>
>
> 1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
>
> 2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
>
> 3 Run install
To me, that sounds like a very strange, to say the least.
Since you are running the F14 anaconda, and then you point
it to F15 repos, then at some point anaconda might look for
something that it expects to exist in the installed system
(since anaconda's scripts could very well be custom made
for the specific release), and it will not find it and crash.
Once such thing might very well be a library, a specific
library version, for a program that anaconda will execute,
on the premise that the program will find it's library already
installed, but the program crashes, because F15 does not
install that library.
I am only making this conjecture as a possible reason why anaconda
crashed. What you did is certainly interesting, but obviously
not the way to go.
> 4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
>
>
> I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
>
>
> Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
> for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
>
doing chroot to f15 from f14 does not alter the booted kernel, which is F14.
Thus while chrooted in F15, and you try, for example, to modprobe
some module, like a graphics module, such as
modprobe radeon
Well, modprobe will look in /lib/modules/RELEASE within the
chroot environent (where RELEASE will be the F15 kernel release version).
And it will try to insert that module into the running kernel which is
an F14 kernel.
The attempt will fail because of version mismatch.
> Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
> graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I do not know what the param name is for Fedora,
but on ububtu, the param name is xmodule, so you
set it by appending xmodule=vesa If it is the same
for F15, then If you boot F15 directly, you could
edit the boot menu (press e, then down-arrow,
press e again and append to end of the line: xmodule=vesa
then press enter then press b to boot.
However, I thought that all this is totally unnecessary because
the xorg server first detects the type of graphics you have
and then runs the server code for that chipset. At least
that is what I was told when I had asked questions about
/etc/X11/xorg.conf (which has been largely obviated).
Cheers,
JD
You are right about the video driver, and I did manage to change it to
no effect anyway.
Just another bit of information it fails after trying iSCSI bus reset a
couple of times before disabling something because it failed to recover,
then the next bus reset causes the core dump and halt
Unfortunately I could find no other way of installing Fedora 15 natively
as the DVD would not start up properly. I'll see if I can report what
the Fedora 15 install/rescue DVD errors are.
9:41 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 05/31/2011 07:43 PM, Alex wrote:
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they
stick around? Like another person said, this is all done for free.
Its not like people here are stuck to answerin questions 40 hours a
week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's no reason
for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
You know, this sounds like good advice. Time to move on.
Mikkel
- --
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
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2:20 p.m.
On 06/06/11 20:15, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 31/05/11 18:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to help.
But a google search of the SCSI card I have installed has found that
other distributions also fail to boot, and it appears to be a problem
with the Advansys kernel driver. So I'm confident that if I remove the
SCSI card the problem will resolve itself. Naturally when I eventually
try this I will post the results.
Unless of course a kernel update fix becomes available. But I don't
expect that to occur in the next few months.
2:15 p.m.
On 31/05/11 18:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Thanks to everyone who has tried to help.
But a google search of the SCSI card I have installed has found that
other distributions also fail to boot, and it appears to be a problem
with the Advansys kernel driver. So I'm confident that if I remove the
SCSI card the problem will resolve itself. Naturally when I eventually
try this I will post the results.
2:21 p.m.
On 06/03/2011 06:18 PM, JD wrote:
On 06/03/11 09:09, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> JD writes:
>
>> A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
>> CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
>> NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
>
> Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of
> how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
>
>> So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment
>> will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
>
> Nope, that's definitely possible.
>
We are not talking about hacking!!
we are talking about normal user interaction,
and in this case, limited to running yum update.
There is absolutely no danger in doing so -
been there and done it.
Well I'll try a few harmless things first, just to gain some confidence.
Other than that I'm sure I'll manage fine thanks folks.
12:30 p.m.
On 06/03/11 09:46, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:09 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> JD writes:
>
>> A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
>> CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
>> NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
> Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of
> how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
>
>> So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment
>> will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
> Nope, that's definitely possible.
>
My caution maybe well founded, so I will have to do some experimenting
first.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
No it is NOT.
We are not asking you to write a program that uses
chroot(2) system call and then do some thing as the man page
for the system call depicts, compile it and run it.
The chroot(1) user command does no make such exploits
at all and has been safely used to put processes in jail for
many many years. AFAIK no one has shown that chroot(1)
command allows the subsequently forked and chrooted shell
and it's children (user commands like yum)
to jump out of the boundaries of jail (in your case /mnt/f15).
This is the problem with listening to such posts as from
the OP who posted the message about chroot(2).
12:18 p.m.
On 06/03/11 09:09, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
> A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
> CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
> NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of
how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
> So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment
> will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
We are not talking about hacking!!
we are talking about normal user interaction,
and in this case, limited to running yum update.
There is absolutely no danger in doing so -
been there and done it.
12:09 p.m.
On 06/03/2011 06:03 PM, Mike Williams wrote:
Have you removed the scsi card, as Marco suggested? I would do that
before doing anything else. You said that there is nothing connected to
it and the system crashes right after the scsi bus is reset. Yank that
sucker out and see what happens. Zero risk, and it might solve the problem.
Mike
Yep, I will do so. Not sure when, maybe sometime next week. I've a busy
weekend ahead.
12:03 p.m.
Have you removed the scsi card, as Marco suggested? I would do that before
doing anything else. You said that there is nothing connected to it and the
system crashes right after the scsi bus is reset. Yank that sucker out and
see what happens. Zero risk, and it might solve the problem.
Mike
11:46 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 05:09 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
JD writes:
> A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
> CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
> NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of
how a root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
> So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment
> will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
My caution maybe well founded, so I will have to do some experimenting
first.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
11:09 a.m.
JD writes:
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
Umm, that's not true. The chroot(2) man page has a nice explanation of how a
root userid can trivially escape a chroot jail.
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted
environment
will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
Nope, that's definitely possible.
10:43 a.m.
On 06/03/11 08:38, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 03:41 PM, Louis Lagendijk wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>
>> Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering
>> if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
>>
> The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the
> issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory
> issues.
>
>> I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I
>> installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
> Mount the F15 on /mnt including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt
> and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop
> This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue
> operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that
> makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI
> controller first
>
> Louis
>
Thanks for that Louis, although I'm still nervous. The yum update needs
to run under chroot without affecting the currently running system, and
I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I suppose I'll have to do some
harmless experiments to determine how.
A user process (such as yum), even with root privs,
CANNOT JUMP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES OF IT'S ROOT,
NAMELY (for example) /mnt/f15
So there is no danger that yum executed within a chrooted environment
will affect the enclosing host's yum database (in this case F14).
10:38 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 03:41 PM, Louis Lagendijk wrote:
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>
> Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering
> if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
>
The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the
issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory
issues.
> I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I
> installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
Mount the F15 on /mnt including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt
and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop
This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue
operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that
makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI
controller first
Louis
Thanks for that Louis, although I'm still nervous. The yum update needs
to run under chroot without affecting the currently running system, and
I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I suppose I'll have to do some
harmless experiments to determine how.
9:41 a.m.
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 15:15 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering
if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
The probability is quite (not to say very) high that this will solve the
issue, yes. If not, I would run e memtest to see if you have memory
issues.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I
installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
Mount the F15 on /mnt
including the additional mount point, chroot /mnt
and you run yum update as suggested in the other mail. No meed to stop
This should be a riskless operation. It is actually also what a rescue
operation does, but in this case you can use the F14 network setup that
makes it even easier. I would hoever recommend removing the SCSI
controller first
Louis
9:20 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 02:48 PM, JD wrote:
On 06/03/11 03:22, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>> For my PC
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>>
>>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>>
>>> smolt page :
>>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>>
>>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>>
>>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
>> Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
>>
>>
>> 1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
>>
>> 2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
>>
>> 3 Run install
>>
>> 4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
>>
>>
>> I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
>> for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
>> graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from
> Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be
> appreciated.
>
To my mind, the most you can do with chroot'ing
to the F15 mounted partition, with F14 being the
booted OS (and with network fully operational)
is that you should be able to run yum -y update.
This will update your F15 environment, but will
leave F14 alone.
But before you run yum -y update, I THINK (but I am not
sure) you will need to first kill the F14 updates daemon:
service yum-updatesd stop
Perhaps another person who has more knowledge
about the yum-updatesd can shed more light here.
Thanks for that, but as you say you really need to know what you're
doing. I'm certainly not comfortable trying that.
8:48 a.m.
On 06/03/11 03:22, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
> Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
>
>
> 1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
>
> 2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
>
> 3 Run install
>
> 4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
>
>
> I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
>
>
> Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
> for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
>
>
> Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
> graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from
Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be
appreciated.
To my mind, the most you can do with chroot'ing
to the F15 mounted partition, with F14 being the
booted OS (and with network fully operational)
is that you should be able to run yum -y update.
This will update your F15 environment, but will
leave F14 alone.
But before you run yum -y update, I THINK (but I am not
sure) you will need to first kill the F14 updates daemon:
service yum-updatesd stop
Perhaps another person who has more knowledge
about the yum-updatesd can shed more light here.
5:58 a.m.
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work?
The
failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a
newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all
fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has
the next kernel update another install will work.
The only scenario that I can imagine, where this kind of thing would be
possible (F14 working cleanly, F15 failing completely), would be some change
in the kernel (that goes with F15) which doesn't handle some obscure piece of
hardware or combination of pieces, that only a small percentage of people
might have (ie. only you).
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and
some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt
profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live
KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops
(take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype
in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The
only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive
and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply,
keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live
KDE.
If it still doesn't work, it is either a BIOS problem or your hardware is
somehow broken in some very weird way (which I doubt, since F14 manages to
work). You may want to try resetting the BIOS to the default/failsafe values,
to see if that helps.
If at any step you manage to boot cleanly into the F15 Live KDE, install it on
the hard disk, reboot into it, do a yum update to fetch all the updates, and
then start reconnecting other devices one by one. If the system stops booting
at any point, you have found the culprit. If your system keeps working after
you have reattached everything, most probably the updates fixed whatever the
problem was.
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where,
how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain
the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and
post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend
for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
The boot procedure of a Linux system is very complicated, and it can fail in
many different ways. If you just say "it doesn't work", noone on this list
can
even begin to guess what might be wrong. At the very least you can tell us
what was the final message written on the screen after which the system froze
or self-restarted.
And a social note. As you have seen --- bitching that something doesn't work,
not providing detailed info, and posting general advice to people to stay away
from F15 because it doesn't boot on your system --- will only provoke other
people on this list to label you as a troll and give up on helping you. This
is a Bad Idea(tm), since you've already driven away most of the knowlegeable
people with that kind of behavior. If you want to ask for help to solve some
problem, be polite and cooperative. If you want to vent and bitch that
something doesn't work as you expect, and give advice to others to stay away
from something, make a blog and post there, instead of posting on this list.
This is a "please help me solve a problem"-type list, and "I have a lousy
experience and a bad opinion"-type posts are not accepted well and rather
belong on your personal blog.
HTH, :-)
Marko
5:22 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I can now mount the Fedora 15 root, home, and boot partitions from
Fedora 14 boot. So any suggestions how I could make use of this would be
appreciated.
4:57 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 05:26 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
>
> Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
> option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
Correction, that should be SCSI bus reset
3:06 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 08:42 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 06:40 AM, JD wrote:
> On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>>> For my PC
>>>>
>>>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>>>
>>>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>>>
>>>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>>>
>>>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>>>
>>>> smolt page :
>>>>
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>>>
>>>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>>>
>>>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>>>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>>>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
>>> Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
>>> option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
>> Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
>>
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
>>
>> As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
> I searched fo iSCSI on that page and did not find it.
> However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the
> lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA
> or FLASH memory disk on USB.
>
> As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer
> System Interface.
> Do you have network acessible storage server
> which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses?
> During install, the network is not up, so how could
> iscsi be involved?
>
> Cheers,
>
> JD
Certainly, while the anaconda from the Fedora 15 DVD install starts up,
there is no network accessible storage. Unfortunately it causes a fault
and a core dump before completing.
As it happens I do have a NAS attached to my local network, although why
would that cause a problem? It certainly is not a problem for Fedora 14,
but trying a boot with it switched off would do no harm.
No joy trying to boot with the NAS turned off.
Sigh
3:03 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 06:32 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 21:16, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
> Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
> option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
In that case I am starting to suspect some hardware
problem. Difficult to tell what.
Perhaps you can download a free bootable CD (iso image)
for comprehensive hardware diagnostic/sanity check,
burn it on a good working cd burner and then
boot it on your machine and run the HW diags.
Good luck.
JD
I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The
failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a
newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all
fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has
the next kernel update another install will work.
2:42 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 06:40 AM, JD wrote:
On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>> For my PC
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>>
>>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>>
>>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>>
>>> smolt page :
>>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>>
>>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>>
>>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
>> Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
>> option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
> Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
>
> As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
I searched fo iSCSI on that page and did not find it.
However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the
lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA
or FLASH memory disk on USB.
As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer
System Interface.
Do you have network acessible storage server
which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses?
During install, the network is not up, so how could
iscsi be involved?
Cheers,
JD
Certainly, while the anaconda from the Fedora 15 DVD install starts up,
there is no network accessible storage. Unfortunately it causes a fault
and a core dump before completing.
As it happens I do have a NAS attached to my local network, although why
would that cause a problem? It certainly is not a problem for Fedora 14,
but trying a boot with it switched off would do no harm.
12:40 a.m.
On 06/02/11 21:26, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
> Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
> option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
I searched fo iSCSI
on that page and did not find it.
However, the generic scsi layer runs on top of the
lower hardware drivers, which maybe ATA (IDE), or SATA
or FLASH memory disk on USB.
As you know, /iSCSI/ is an abbreviation of Internet Small Computer
System Interface.
Do you have network acessible storage server
which serves SCSI block devices which your PC accesses?
During install, the network is not up, so how could
iscsi be involved?
Cheers,
JD
12:32 a.m.
On 06/02/11 21:16, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
In that case I am
starting to suspect some hardware
problem. Difficult to tell what.
Perhaps you can download a free bootable CD (iso image)
for comprehensive hardware diagnostic/sanity check,
burn it on a good working cd burner and then
boot it on your machine and run the HW diags.
Good luck.
JD
11:26 p.m.
On 06/03/2011 05:16 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
Hmmm, I'm wondering whether this kernel bug might be the culprit
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1092843
As it does appear to be a problem when iSCSI bus is being reset
11:16 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Fedora 15 Install/Rescue DVD checked out correctly on boot and check
option. But it also causes a core dump when trying to start up.
10:51 p.m.
On 06/02/11 19:44, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
To me, that sounds like a very strange, to say the least.
Since you are running the F14 anaconda, and then you point
it to F15 repos, then at some point anaconda might look for
something that it expects to exist in the installed system
(since anaconda's scripts could very well be custom made
for the specific release), and it will not find it and crash.
Once such thing might very well be a library, a specific
library version, for a program that anaconda will execute,
on the premise that the program will find it's library already
installed, but the program crashes, because F15 does not
install that library.
I am only making this conjecture as a possible reason why anaconda
crashed. What you did is certainly interesting, but obviously
not the way to go.
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
doing chroot to f15 from f14 does not alter the booted kernel, which is F14.
Thus while chrooted in F15, and you try, for example, to modprobe
some module, like a graphics module, such as
modprobe radeon
Well, modprobe will look in /lib/modules/RELEASE within the
chroot environent (where RELEASE will be the F15 kernel release version).
And it will try to insert that module into the running kernel which is
an F14 kernel.
The attempt will fail because of version mismatch.
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
I do not
know what the param name is for Fedora,
but on ububtu, the param name is xmodule, so you
set it by appending xmodule=vesa If it is the same
for F15, then If you boot F15 directly, you could
edit the boot menu (press e, then down-arrow,
press e again and append to end of the line: xmodule=vesa
then press enter then press b to boot.
However, I thought that all this is totally unnecessary because
the xorg server first detects the type of graphics you have
and then runs the server code for that chipset. At least
that is what I was told when I had asked questions about
/etc/X11/xorg.conf (which has been largely obviated).
Cheers,
JD
10:30 p.m.
On 06/03/2011 03:44 AM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
Created a xorg.conf and now loads vesa driver instead, but still fails
Sigh
9:44 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Well I've now tried to install Fedora 15 to a separate partition as follows:
1 Boot from a Fedora 14 installation disk
2 Change repositories config to point to Fedora 15
3 Run install
4 Anaconda fails after installing all RPMs
I've also configured the Fedora 14 so I can mount the Fedora 15 root LVM
Unfortunately I still seem to be getting an error as described earlier
for Fedora 15 Live KDE CD
Does anyone know how to change Fedora 15 to force it to use the vesa
graphics drivers? I suspect how it's done has changed for Fedora 15.
6:35 p.m.
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
If I had had your experience
(and I have had much worse, though not with Fedora-15)
I would probably try:
1. Try to install in text mode.
(My guess would be that your problem is with the graphics driver.)
I'm not sure if text mode is explicitly offered any more,
as it used to be?
[If I could find no other way, and had Fedora-14 on the machine,
I would abstract vmlinuz and initrd.img from the Fedora-15 DVD ISO
(by running " mount -o loop Fedora...iso /mnt")
copy them to /boot and add a stanza to grub.conf to call them
with a line like "kernel /vmlinuz text",
or else run grub interactively.]
2. Try the Fedora-15 netinstall CD.
--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
10:45 a.m.
On 05/31/2011 07:43 PM, Alex wrote:
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they
stick around? Like another person said, this is all done for free.
Its not like people here are stuck to answerin questions 40 hours a
week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's no reason
for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
Well, some of us stick around, but ignore 90% of the posts, and only
get involved in thing that interest us, and we have the free time to
follow through on. Other then that, you may get a hint of a
direction to follow.
One thing to keep in mind - if you see a post from jdow, it is
usually worth reading and trying her advice.
Mikkel
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
6:25 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 09:11 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 10:54 AM, JD wrote:
> Keep posting your problem along with
> more information such as messages in /var/log/messages
> which might shed some light on the nature of the
> problem you are facing.
Exactly. Just claiming that it's impossible to upgrade from F14 to F15
(Especially, I might add, when there are tens of thousands of
counter-examples.) and ignoring all the suggestions made as to how to
get us the information needed to help you isn't going to get you any
help. If you want the members of this list to give you help, you have
to give them the information they need so that they can (maybe) figure
out what went wrong. Posting your smolt profile is probably the only
substantive information you've offered, but you expect us to pull a
solution to your upgrade woes out of a hat.
And, you also have to remember that you're not paying for this
assistance. Those of us reading this list are offering help *for free*
because we want to. There's nothing in the world compelling us to help
people who won't cooperate, so next time you ask for assistance, leave
your "I'm entitled to this" attitude at the door.
Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've made in
the past I don't hold you in high regard.
2:14 a.m.
On 06/01/2011 07:32 AM, JD wrote:
On 05/31/11 23:20, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>>
>> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
>> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
>> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
> Update
>
> Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
>
> booted, and ran the check, result passed
>
>
>
>
> Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
>
> ....
> Starting POSIX Message Queue File System...
> Started POSIX Message Queue File System
> Starting Huge Page File System...
> Started Huge Page File System.
> Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization.
> Starting Wait for Storage Scan...
> Show Plymouth Boot Screen
>
> >>>>> Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference to
Advansys
> functions perhaps?
>
>
> AdvInitAsc3550Driver
>
> AdvResetChipAndSB
>
> AdvISR
>
>
>
>
>
> SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems
> Product Inc ABP940-UW"
That's better news. At least it confirms that it
works with your graphics card.
Were you able to bring up your network?
Maybe you could make another attempt
to install F15 on an empty partition instead of
upgrading your F14 installation, so that you will
always be able to fall back on your good F14
installation.
Difficult to install Fedora 15 to another partition directly as the
install/rescue DVD for Fedora 15 fails to work. Although I could install
Fedora 14 to another partition and update that.
The last reinstall of Fedora 14 was done directly from the Fedora
repositories, (fortunately I know the required IP config).
My concern with doing another update in another partition is the need
for a proper plan. Firstly rebooting to the updated Fedora 15 might not
be the best course, rather booting the working Fedora 14 and then mount
the Fedora 15 and collect its configuration information. The concern
with a Fedora 15 boot is it may have unforeseen consequences that
obscure the real problem. Also it might be advisable to get the
installed packages both before and after the update. Unfortunately this
will take at least a day to achieve. So, I'm not sure when I'll get
round to trying it.
1:32 a.m.
On 05/31/11 23:20, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
> posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
> assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Update
Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
booted, and ran the check, result passed
Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
....
Starting POSIX Message Queue File System...
Started POSIX Message Queue File System
Starting Huge Page File System...
Started Huge Page File System.
Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization.
Starting Wait for Storage Scan...
Show Plymouth Boot Screen
>>>>> Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference to Advansys
functions perhaps?
AdvInitAsc3550Driver
AdvResetChipAndSB
AdvISR
SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems
Product Inc ABP940-UW"
That's better news. At least it confirms that it
works with your graphics card.
Were you able to bring up your network?
Maybe you could make another attempt
to install F15 on an empty partition instead of
upgrading your F14 installation, so that you will
always be able to fall back on your good F14
installation.
1:20 a.m.
On 05/31/2011 06:24 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
Update
Created Fedora 15 Live CD KDE
booted, and ran the check, result passed
Boot sequence (low res) then gets to this point eventually
....
Starting POSIX Message Queue File System...
Started POSIX Message Queue File System
Starting Huge Page File System...
Started Huge Page File System.
Started udev Wait for Complete Device Initialization.
Starting Wait for Storage Scan...
Show Plymouth Boot Screen
>>>> Delay here then core dump and reliably see reference
to Advansys
functions perhaps?
AdvInitAsc3550Driver
AdvResetChipAndSB
AdvISR
SCSI card reported in Fedora 14 by kinfocenter as "Advanced Systems
Product Inc ABP940-UW"
8:56 p.m.
On 06/01/2011 02:21 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 18:24 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
Sounds like hardware/bios to me? Maybe you didn't hit the ON button?
(exaggeration made on purpose here).
Define "boot" better. Describe the failure with dumps and you'll be able
to have a conversation in here. "Cannot boot" is not a
descriptive/objective error message. Nobody can help you given that
little information. The boot process is complex and has many many
stages. Be specific or you get the responses you've been given here.
Sorry to disappoint you, but words are easy, rooting out the details are
not. See my other posts, and with all due respect the scatter gun
approach to support, (lots of people getting frustrated, while trying to
help), is leaving a bitter taste. Hence, as and when I find reliable,
repeatable failure feedback, I will try and report it. But any accurate
detailed suggestions as to how I might actually do that seem to be few
and far between, although they are welcome.
Let me say, it's my problem, and I've taken ownership of it. That means
I'm not likely to reply, immediately, directly, or at all to the scatter
gun suggestions I receive from this community. This is not out of
disrespect to anyone, but I'm perfectly capable of confusing myself when
deciding what to do. If this approach doesn't suit people, then they
don't need to get involved.
After ~3 days of trying I am not expecting a fix for Fedora 15, and
await Fedora 16.
No offence intended, and your effort to help is appreciated.
8:31 p.m.
On 06/01/2011 02:22 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 06:03 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. If your tired of listening,
> then don't, it'd suit us both fine I think.
Goodbye, luser. *Plonk!*
As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. No lose here mind.
8:21 p.m.
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 18:24 +0100, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
Sounds like hardware/bios to me? Maybe you didn't hit the ON button?
(exaggeration made on purpose here).
Define "boot" better. Describe the failure with dumps and you'll be able
to have a conversation in here. "Cannot boot" is not a
descriptive/objective error message. Nobody can help you given that
little information. The boot process is complex and has many many
stages. Be specific or you get the responses you've been given here.
--
Best Regards
Peter Larsen
Wise words of the day:
I am a conscientious man, when I throw rocks at seabirds I leave no tern
unstoned.
-- Ogden Nash, "Everybody's Mind to Me a Kingdom Is"
8:19 p.m.
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 17:44 -0700, JD wrote:
On 05/31/11 16:25, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've made in
> the past I don't hold you in high regard.
I have been seeing a lot of complaints about F15.
This tells me that this release was made in too much
of a hurry (only ~6 months after release of F14 around
near mid Nov. 2010).
And that's different from the release period of 6 months from F13 to F14
how? Or F12 to F13?? Fedora is _not_ production ready. It was NEVER made
to be a reliable and tested platform. It's where we live up to true open
source, release often and release early. We identify the issues and work
on making the software better. WE here means community - it means
working together. Us that are not code contributors need to help out
too. By testing, reporting our findings (not "it doesn't work" but REAL
debug information); help provide documentation and in other ways help
improve the quality.
And you're totally right - by the time we catch up, it's time to move
on. That's the nature of Fedora. We don't have a LTS of Fedora - unless
you consider RHEL Workstation as such (and I don't). But as you may
know, a lot of the cool NEW stuff isn't part of that distribution for
the reasons I just mentioned. You can't have it both ways. Stable and
tested software is not state of the art. And it takes quite a bit of
resources to keep a supported LTS around and Fedora choose not to go
that way.
Seems to me not enough testing was done before release.
Let's hope F16 will be more solid.
There never is enough time. And that's on purpose. The release itself
should be considered a QA candidate all the way to EOL. Each release
builds up experience to improve the next.
Each Fedora release is supported by updates for 13-some months. You do
not HAVE to go directly to F15 right when it's released. It's your
choice to stay on F14 for another 6-7 months - and you'll still get
updates and you can still help making things better by providing
feedback and fix issues on that version. It'll all help to improve F16.
F16 will be better, but don't expect F16 to do things differently than
things were done for F14 or F15 (or earlier). It's still going to be
bleeding edge, and you'll be chancing your system failing by using it.
Of course as we learn about Fedora and Linux most of us are able to
diagnose (with or without community help) and find solutions or
work-arounds to problems allowing us to use Fedora as our permanent
desktops. But not without expecting a hickup now and then (particular on
"upgrade day").
--
Best Regards
Peter Larsen
Wise words of the day:
Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
-- ksh(a)cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93
8:03 p.m.
On 06/01/2011 01:56 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/31/2011 05:33 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for
> making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from
> myself, and I already know that thank you!
You keep referring, over and over to "jaded comments." Yes, I know
you're not the one who started it, but I don't think the term means
quite what you think it does. And, the quoted text twists the entire
point of my remark that we're doing this for free. It's not that we
don't care (If we did, we'd either unsubscribe from the list or simply
ignore you.) it's that we offer help because, and only because we want
to. At this point, I'm tired of trying to explain this to you because
judging from your replies, you pay no attention to anything that doesn't
fit your preconceived notions or is intended to help you tell us what we
need to know.
> although I will reluctantly
> put up more information as I gather it.
Yes. Exactly. Getting any information out of you is like pulling
teeth. It's almost as though you don't want help, you want everybody to
feel sorry for you. Right now, IMO, you're singing a One Note Samba,
based on the third note in the scale and I'm tired of listening to it.
As I said, I do not hold you in high regard. If your tired of listening,
then don't, it'd suit us both fine I think.
7:56 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 05:33 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an
excuse for
making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from
myself, and I already know that thank you!
You keep referring, over and over to "jaded comments." Yes, I know
you're not the one who started it, but I don't think the term means
quite what you think it does. And, the quoted text twists the entire
point of my remark that we're doing this for free. It's not that we
don't care (If we did, we'd either unsubscribe from the list or simply
ignore you.) it's that we offer help because, and only because we want
to. At this point, I'm tired of trying to explain this to you because
judging from your replies, you pay no attention to anything that doesn't
fit your preconceived notions or is intended to help you tell us what we
need to know.
although I will reluctantly
put up more information as I gather it.
Yes. Exactly. Getting any information out of you is like pulling
teeth. It's almost as though you don't want help, you want everybody to
feel sorry for you. Right now, IMO, you're singing a One Note Samba,
based on the third note in the scale and I'm tired of listening to it.
7:44 p.m.
On 05/31/11 16:25, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
Sorry to say this, but after some of the jaded comments you've
made in
the past I don't hold you in high regard.
I have been seeing a lot of
complaints about F15.
This tells me that this release was made in too much
of a hurry (only ~6 months after release of F14 around
near mid Nov. 2010).
Seems to me not enough testing was done before release.
Let's hope F16 will be more solid.
7:43 p.m.
What I don't get is if certain people are so jaded, why so they stick around? Like
another person said, this is all done for free. Its not like people here are stuck to
answerin questions 40 hours a week. If questions upset you, then hit the road. There's
no reason for angry/jaded people to stick around here. It makes no sense.
On May 31, 2011, at 7:33 PM, "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930"
<n2xssvv.g02gfr12930(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 05/31/2011 08:17 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100
> "n2xssvv.g02gfr12930"<n2xssvv.g02gfr12930(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> For my PC
>>
>> Fedora 15 update fails
>>
>> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>>
>> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>>
>> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>>
>> smolt page :
>> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>>
>> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
>
> Sorry to hear it.
>
> First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked
> down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
>
> If not, sorry it didn't work out.
>
> If so, would you be willing to provide more information?
> I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
>
> kevin
>
>
>
Let me assure you I have tried many of the suggestions without success.
Secondly I've already spend ~3 days on this with little or no progress
and a lot of jaded responses of no help at all. As I have made clear, my
confidence that this will get fixed, and Fedora, is beginning to evaporate.
Sure I'd like to get it fixed, but having worked in support, and repair
myself, I know that without a repeatable fault it's nigh on impossible
to fix. Also I started on Fedora core 2 and have been sorting my
problems and upgrading along the way, so I don't appreciate jaded
comments of the sort suggesting I'm some sort of arrogant idiot.
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for
making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from
myself, and I already know that thank you!
It appears this community is the place to look for assistance, and
currently I'm not enjoying the experience, although I will reluctantly
put up more information as I gather it. But currently I reckon waiting
to try Fedora 16 is the best I can hope for.
My recommendation before trying to install/upgrade any version of Fedora
is to try one of the live CDs first.
Current position
-------------------------------------
I have reverted back to Fedora 14, as I want/need a working PC
I am unwilling to try another install/upgrade after 2 failures, (it's a
long process), it will have to be the Live CD
After trying an upgrade I could not get consistent faults, not useful
I created Fedora 15 install/rescue dvd, checking the signatures
I did try kernel parameters like noapic to no avail
My DVD burner works fine thank you
It is not possible to get log files if you can't boot
Using Fedora 14 rescue DVD after initial upgrade it appeared the
install had become corrupted, (could not see my home directory)
I have little respect for anybody that makes jaded comments or no
further useful suggestions
Currently the most consistent fault is the hardware fails to initialise
before eventually showing some error stack trace, (I'm IT savvy and
understand this better than you may think), and will note some of it
down in due course
At some point I will be changing my motherboard/graphics card, not sure
when yet, and I have done this before with Linux installed.
-------------------------------------
Please do not take any offence kevin, this is not aimed at folks like
you who try to be helpful.
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
7:33 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 08:17 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100
"n2xssvv.g02gfr12930"<n2xssvv.g02gfr12930(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
> For my PC
>
> Fedora 15 update fails
>
> Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
>
> Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
>
> All fail to finish initialising hardware.
>
> smolt page :
> http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
>
> Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
Sorry to hear it.
First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked
down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
If not, sorry it didn't work out.
If so, would you be willing to provide more information?
I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
kevin
Let me assure you I have tried many of the suggestions without success.
Secondly I've already spend ~3 days on this with little or no progress
and a lot of jaded responses of no help at all. As I have made clear, my
confidence that this will get fixed, and Fedora, is beginning to evaporate.
Sure I'd like to get it fixed, but having worked in support, and repair
myself, I know that without a repeatable fault it's nigh on impossible
to fix. Also I started on Fedora core 2 and have been sorting my
problems and upgrading along the way, so I don't appreciate jaded
comments of the sort suggesting I'm some sort of arrogant idiot.
Please do not come out with, "we do this for free" as an excuse for
making jaded comments, that response will lose you a lot of respect from
myself, and I already know that thank you!
It appears this community is the place to look for assistance, and
currently I'm not enjoying the experience, although I will reluctantly
put up more information as I gather it. But currently I reckon waiting
to try Fedora 16 is the best I can hope for.
My recommendation before trying to install/upgrade any version of Fedora
is to try one of the live CDs first.
Current position
-------------------------------------
I have reverted back to Fedora 14, as I want/need a working PC
I am unwilling to try another install/upgrade after 2 failures, (it's a
long process), it will have to be the Live CD
After trying an upgrade I could not get consistent faults, not useful
I created Fedora 15 install/rescue dvd, checking the signatures
I did try kernel parameters like noapic to no avail
My DVD burner works fine thank you
It is not possible to get log files if you can't boot
Using Fedora 14 rescue DVD after initial upgrade it appeared the
install had become corrupted, (could not see my home directory)
I have little respect for anybody that makes jaded comments or no
further useful suggestions
Currently the most consistent fault is the hardware fails to initialise
before eventually showing some error stack trace, (I'm IT savvy and
understand this better than you may think), and will note some of it
down in due course
At some point I will be changing my motherboard/graphics card, not sure
when yet, and I have done this before with Linux installed.
-------------------------------------
Please do not take any offence kevin, this is not aimed at folks like
you who try to be helpful.
3:11 p.m.
On 05/31/2011 10:54 AM, JD wrote:
Keep posting your problem along with
more information such as messages in /var/log/messages
which might shed some light on the nature of the
problem you are facing.
Exactly. Just claiming that it's impossible to upgrade from F14 to F15
(Especially, I might add, when there are tens of thousands of
counter-examples.) and ignoring all the suggestions made as to how to
get us the information needed to help you isn't going to get you any
help. If you want the members of this list to give you help, you have
to give them the information they need so that they can (maybe) figure
out what went wrong. Posting your smolt profile is probably the only
substantive information you've offered, but you expect us to pull a
solution to your upgrade woes out of a hat.
And, you also have to remember that you're not paying for this
assistance. Those of us reading this list are offering help *for free*
because we want to. There's nothing in the world compelling us to help
people who won't cooperate, so next time you ask for assistance, leave
your "I'm entitled to this" attitude at the door.
2:17 p.m.
On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:24:40 +0100
"n2xssvv.g02gfr12930" <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
Sorry to hear it.
First: Do you wish to try and solve the above and/or get it tracked
down so it can get fixed or others don't run into it?
If not, sorry it didn't work out.
If so, would you be willing to provide more information?
I'd be happy to walk you through what to gather.
kevin
12:54 p.m.
On 05/31/11 10:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
For my PC
Fedora 15 update fails
Fedora 15 install CD fails to boot
Fedora 15 Live KDE fails to boot
All fail to finish initialising hardware.
smolt page :
http://www.smolts.org/client/show/pub_4917245b-ea15-44b1-ae4d-788c70a5a3d9
Result : I shall not be updating to Fedora 15 any time soon
I provide this information reluctantly based on my previous experience
posting to this community, which laughingly suggests it provides
assistance, encouragement, and advice.
You are not the only one who has seen the
responses
of jaded individuals. They are just tired of seeing reports
of problems without the type of supporting information
that THEY would have liked to see.
It happens to everyone after some years of seeing so
many problem reports.
So my advice is for you to develop a thicker skin and
ignore them. Keep posting your problem along with
more information such as messages in /var/log/messages
which might shed some light on the nature of the
problem you are facing. Ultimately, someone will have
the insight and be able to provide help.
From my experience with this list, there really are
not that many people on this list that post solutions
to people's problems. So, have patience.
My $.02's worth: have you tested your CD/DVD drive
for flaws or other problems? WHat about the burned
CDs DVDs. Did you run the sanity check on them?
Anaconda has that built-in when you boot from the
Fedora installation CDs and DVDs.
Cheers,
JD
9:15 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 02:05 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 12:52:56 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>> On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>>> I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The
>>> failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a
>>> newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all
>>> fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has
>>> the next kernel update another install will work.
>>
>> I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI
>> controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible
>> in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached
>> there?
>>
[snip]
>>
>> I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15
>> Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how
>> it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a
>> paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all
>> unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory,
>> one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff ---
>> a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove
>> everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
>>
[snip]
>>
>> A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on
>> where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical
>> skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a
>> failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your
>> mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to
>> put it online.
>
> Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
>
> If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have
> provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD,
> Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all
> fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI
> reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Ok, so social things aside, have you tried to disconnect the SCSI device and
boot the F15 Live KDE? What is the result?
Also, you still didn't say which device is attached to the SCSI controller and
what is it used for? Is it a hard disk? A DVD drive? Network equipment?
Something else? Detailed hardware specs could be useful, because someone may
be aware of a potential kernel/driver bug for that particular device, or maybe
know a workaround. Post as many details as you can about it.
Given that the boot process hangs with a SCSI bus reset, I have a feeling that
this device is the culprit of your problems. Another piece of info would be
useful --- where in the boot process does the SCSI bus reset message appear?
Is it during the kernel booting phase, or after init kicked in? Is the root
partition already remounted r/w, or is it still mounted read-only? If it is
still read-only, there will be no info in the logs. But if it happened after
the r/w remount, you can mount the F15 / partition into some directory of F14,
and look at /mountpoint/var/log/messages and /mountpoint/var/log/boot.log for
further info (/mountpoint is the name of the directory in F14 tree where you
have mounted the F15 / directory).
Any of those things would be helpful in diagnosing what goes wrong during the
boot. But above all, do try to disconnect the SCSI device altogether and boot
into F15. If that works, do a yum update and see if it pulls in a new kernel,
then reattach the device and try again with the latest kernel. Maybe the
drivers had a bug.
Come back with as much info as you can collect about this.
HTH, :-)
Marko
Currently nothing is attached to the SCSI controller. So I'm wondering
if I actually remove it, the problem will disappear.
I'm fairly sure the Fedora 15 install is mostly up to date, as I
installed direct from the Fedora repos, release and updates.
The SCSI bus reset is in the kernel booting phase I believe.
8:05 a.m.
On Friday 03 June 2011 12:52:56 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
>> I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The
>> failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a
>> newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all
>> fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has
>> the next kernel update another install will work.
>
> I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI
> controller and some device attached in your machine (it was also visible
> in your smolt profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached
> there?
>
[snip]
>
> I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15
> Live KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how
> it stops (take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a
> paper and retype in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all
> unnecessary hardware. The only thing you *need* in a machine is memory,
> one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive and a video card (and obvious stuff ---
> a motherboard, processor, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Remove
> everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live KDE.
>
[snip]
>
> A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on
> where, how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical
> skills to explain the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a
> failed boot attempt, and post it. You can use a camera built into your
> mobile phone (or ask a friend for one), and you can use a working F14 to
> put it online.
Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have
provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD,
Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all
fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI
reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Ok, so social things aside, have you tried to disconnect the SCSI device and
boot the F15 Live KDE? What is the result?
Also, you still didn't say which device is attached to the SCSI controller and
what is it used for? Is it a hard disk? A DVD drive? Network equipment?
Something else? Detailed hardware specs could be useful, because someone may
be aware of a potential kernel/driver bug for that particular device, or maybe
know a workaround. Post as many details as you can about it.
Given that the boot process hangs with a SCSI bus reset, I have a feeling that
this device is the culprit of your problems. Another piece of info would be
useful --- where in the boot process does the SCSI bus reset message appear?
Is it during the kernel booting phase, or after init kicked in? Is the root
partition already remounted r/w, or is it still mounted read-only? If it is
still read-only, there will be no info in the logs. But if it happened after
the r/w remount, you can mount the F15 / partition into some directory of F14,
and look at /mountpoint/var/log/messages and /mountpoint/var/log/boot.log for
further info (/mountpoint is the name of the directory in F14 tree where you
have mounted the F15 / directory).
Any of those things would be helpful in diagnosing what goes wrong during the
boot. But above all, do try to disconnect the SCSI device altogether and boot
into F15. If that works, do a yum update and see if it pulls in a new kernel,
then reattach the device and try again with the latest kernel. Maybe the
drivers had a bug.
Come back with as much info as you can collect about this.
HTH, :-)
Marko
6:52 a.m.
On 06/03/2011 11:58 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Friday 03 June 2011 09:03:15 n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> I can understand why you suggest that, but why does Fedora 14 work? The
> failure appears to occur during the kernel start up and Fedora 15 has a
> newer kernel, for Live CD, install DVD, and actual installation, and all
> fail appear to fail during kernel start up. Perhaps after Fedora 15 has
> the next kernel update another install will work.
The only scenario that I can imagine, where this kind of thing would be
possible (F14 working cleanly, F15 failing completely), would be some change
in the kernel (that goes with F15) which doesn't handle some obscure piece of
hardware or combination of pieces, that only a small percentage of people
might have (ie. only you).
I remember from one of your previous posts that you have a SCSI controller and
some device attached in your machine (it was also visible in your smolt
profile, IIRC). What is that and what do you have attached there?
I can suggest the following. Disconnect the SCSI device and try the F15 Live
KDE. Does it work? If not, please send some info on where and how it stops
(take a picture of the screen, write down what you see on a paper and retype
in an e-mail, whatever). Continue disconnecting all unnecessary hardware. The
only thing you *need* in a machine is memory, one hard disk, one CD/DVD drive
and a video card (and obvious stuff --- a motherboard, processor, power supply,
keyboard and monitor). Remove everything else, and try to boot the F15 Live
KDE.
If it still doesn't work, it is either a BIOS problem or your hardware is
somehow broken in some very weird way (which I doubt, since F14 manages to
work). You may want to try resetting the BIOS to the default/failsafe values,
to see if that helps.
If at any step you manage to boot cleanly into the F15 Live KDE, install it on
the hard disk, reboot into it, do a yum update to fetch all the updates, and
then start reconnecting other devices one by one. If the system stops booting
at any point, you have found the culprit. If your system keeps working after
you have reattached everything, most probably the updates fixed whatever the
problem was.
A very important point --- *please* send us *detailed* information on where,
how and what fails to work. If you don't have the technical skills to explain
the details yourself, take a photo of a screen with a failed boot attempt, and
post it. You can use a camera built into your mobile phone (or ask a friend
for one), and you can use a working F14 to put it online.
The boot procedure of a Linux system is very complicated, and it can fail in
many different ways. If you just say "it doesn't work", noone on this list
can
even begin to guess what might be wrong. At the very least you can tell us
what was the final message written on the screen after which the system froze
or self-restarted.
And a social note. As you have seen --- bitching that something doesn't work,
not providing detailed info, and posting general advice to people to stay away
from F15 because it doesn't boot on your system --- will only provoke other
people on this list to label you as a troll and give up on helping you. This
is a Bad Idea(tm), since you've already driven away most of the knowlegeable
people with that kind of behavior. If you want to ask for help to solve some
problem, be polite and cooperative. If you want to vent and bitch that
something doesn't work as you expect, and give advice to others to stay away
from something, make a blog and post there, instead of posting on this list.
This is a "please help me solve a problem"-type list, and "I have a lousy
experience and a bad opinion"-type posts are not accepted well and rather
belong on your personal blog.
HTH, :-)
Marko
Well I agree that my opinion posts were made out of frustration, wrongly.
If you look at some of my other posts here you will see that I have
provided further details that detail that the Fedora 15 install DVD,
Fedora 15 Live KDE CD, and a Fedora 15 install, (by other means), all
fail in a similar manner, which appears to be requiring multiple SCSI
reset bus, then core dump, and shows various Advansys calls.
Also both Fedora 15 install DVD and Fedora 15 Live KDE CD both passed
the check disk.
Lastly, I do appreciate people trying to help, but some of the
suggestions were not actually possible. Yet I was accused of not trying
those suggestions, and it appears to me that they may have been
selective in the posts they chose to read. Regardless of that I've moved
on and as you may have seen I have managed to create a much more useful
method to help determine the problem, (thanks in part to JD).
I should also point out I have tried at no time been rude about anyone,
whether that been name calling or other rude implications. If people do
offer support, that is generous of them, but perhaps they should show
more patience. I have experience providing support dealing with angry
people and do you think being rude in reply would have helped?
4700
days inactive
4707
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52 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Alex -
JD -
Joe Zeff -
Kevin Fenzi -
Louis Lagendijk -
Marko Vojinovic -
Mike Williams -
Mikkel L. Ellertson -
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 -
Peter Larsen -
Sam Varshavchik -
Timothy Murphy