I can try and draft a kickstart (even if it's not up to me to include it in livecd-tools proper). Looking at what you've got below, I can think of two issues. First, the minimal image on F8 doesn't allow login so I'll have to work around that. Second, the list below is not the complete list of needed packages for a LiveCD so I'll have to work out the packages to include. James, if I do come up with a kickstart, would you be willing to test it. Also, does anyone have any other thoughts/warnings before I start hacking? Tim James Gallagher wrote: > Hi, > > Please can you include a minimal development > envrionment on the LiveCD release, in F8 it's less > than 20mb, the files required are > > > binutils-2.17.50.0.18-1.i386.rpm > gcc-4.1.2-33.i386.rpm > glibc-devel-2.7-2.i386.rpm > glibc-headers-2.7-2.i386.rpm > kernel-devel-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i686.rpm > kernel-headers-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i386.rpm > libgomp-4.1.2-33.i386.rpm > make-3.81-10.fc8.i386.rpm > patch-2.5.4-30.fc8.i386.rpm > > > This enables installing ndiswrapper, madwifi drivers > etc without an internet connection > > Cheers :) > > James > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > >

That's a very silly attitude. What harm can there be from an extra 20mb of rpms which would help in dozens of scenarios? I hope your opinion is not the consensus on the mailing list, I would be very disappointed

I'll test it, sure, but why do you claim this is not a complete list of needed packages? I have routinely installed this set of packages since F6 (tediously from a usb stick transfer), there's a howto on fedoradforums.org posted by me for F7. Heck, I would be happy if you just bzipped the 9 files and chucked them on the LiveCD as an optional package. I'm surprised no one else sees this as *critical*, with the ASUS Eee PC for example, you need to jump through hoops to get the LiveCD running with wifi from a usb stick. Including these packages would make it very easy. Am I misunderstanding the problems involved in including these rpms? Cheers James --- Tim Wood <tim.wood(a)datawranglers.com&gt; wrote: > I can try and draft a kickstart (even if it's not up > to me to include it > in livecd-tools proper). Looking at what you've got > below, I can think > of two issues. First, the minimal image on F8 > doesn't allow login so > I'll have to work around that. Second, the list > below is not the > complete list of needed packages for a LiveCD so > I'll have to work out > the packages to include. James, if I do come up > with a kickstart, would > you be willing to test it. Also, does anyone have > any other > thoughts/warnings before I start hacking? > > Tim > > > James Gallagher wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Please can you include a minimal development >> envrionment on the LiveCD release, in F8 it's less >> than 20mb, the files required are >> >> >> binutils-2.17.50.0.18-1.i386.rpm >> gcc-4.1.2-33.i386.rpm >> glibc-devel-2.7-2.i386.rpm >> glibc-headers-2.7-2.i386.rpm >> kernel-devel-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i686.rpm >> kernel-headers-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i386.rpm >> libgomp-4.1.2-33.i386.rpm >> make-3.81-10.fc8.i386.rpm >> patch-2.5.4-30.fc8.i386.rpm >> >> >> This enables installing ndiswrapper, madwifi >> > drivers > >> etc without an internet connection >> >> Cheers :) >> >> James >> >> >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference >> >> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ >> >> -- >> Fedora-livecd-list mailing list >> Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com >> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list >> >> > -- > _________________________________ > Tim Wood, CLP, RHCT > 719.338.7484 (tel) > > The Data Wranglers > Web, Database & more since since 1994 > www.datawranglers.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 18:45 +0100, James Gallagher wrote: > Please can you include a minimal development > envrionment on the LiveCD release, in F8 it's less > than 20mb, the files required are You do realize that the image is bursting at the seams as it is? Way too much of my life is spent taking and removing things to get back under the 700 meg limit. The right answer is getting drivers working for hardware -- eg, we now have the ath5k driver which supports a lot of the Atheros hardware Jeremy -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

James Gallagher wrote: > ath5k don't work on the ASUS Eee PC, and that's set to > be mega this year. I posted A detailed howto on > compiling madwifi drivers for this on various forums, > if the livecd includes this small addition (<20mb) I > can make a script work with just the madwifi driver > and patch file. A lot of peeps would appreciate it :) Real work is being done to integrate changes directly so you don't need a additional script. http://kernelslacker.livejournal.com/115918.html http://kernelslacker.livejournal.com/116445.html Meanwhile, there is eeedora http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:eeedora Rahul -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

I have to package the required development rpms for my script to work, that's just silly. Just 20mb and you guys can't fit the files in?

It sounds like the kickstart in question is going to have to be for a DVD or a supplemental one (like the XFCE one) with various trade-offs.

things without removing something else -- there's a fundamental limit that we hit up against (the size of a CD) and which we are constantly having to make tradeoffs against. If you can suggest something to free up the space, then there can be a real discussion. Otherwise, it's just bikeshedding. Jeremy -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

James Gallagher wrote: > Right, here you go, keeping in mind that this is a > LiveCD, do we really need > 1. Selinux, selinux troubleshooter > 2. Totem Movie player (it doesn't actually play > anything does it?) > 3. Gnumeric Spreadsheet (How many people are gonna use > a livecd for spreadsheet work) > 4.Evolution (99% of peeps will use web based mail on > a livecd) > 5. Some of the rubbish games. Note that the Live CD is used for two purposes 1) For demonstrating Fedora 2) For installing Fedora While things like a mail client isn't that useful for a demo, it is quite useful on a installed system. Totem plays patent unencumbered open formats. I am not sure which games you call rubbish. If you can be more specific, that would be useful. Rahul -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

ok, timezones mean you guys can't reply for a while, but let me add this. I've been a major supporter of Fedora for over 4 years, I realize I'm on the "user" side and your team is the "development" side, but it's "quid pro quo" right? How about a little help here to make the user experience smoother? cheers James --- James Gallagher <jbgallagher2000(a)yahoo.co.uk&gt; wrote: > Do we really need 17 games? (including two entries > for > solitaire for some reason). > Chess, AisleRiot Solitaire, Mahjongg, Mines and > Sudoku > would be sufficient.ion) > And Evolution can be installed post-hard drive > install > (assuming an internet connect > After all, extra games can be added via pirut > (assuming an internet connection) > --- Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; > wrote: > > James Gallagher wrote: > > > Right, here you go, keeping in mind that this is > a > > > LiveCD, do we really need > > > > > 1. Selinux, selinux troubleshooter > > > 2. Totem Movie player (it doesn't actually play > > > anything does it?) > > > 3. Gnumeric Spreadsheet (How many people are > gonna > > use > > > a livecd for spreadsheet work) > > > 4.Evolution (99% of peeps will use web based > mail > > on > > > a livecd) > > > 5. Some of the rubbish games. > > > Note that the Live CD is used for two purposes > > > 1) For demonstrating Fedora > > 2) For installing Fedora > > > While things like a mail client isn't that useful > > for a demo, it is > > quite useful on a installed system. Totem plays > > patent unencumbered open > > formats. I am not sure which games you call > rubbish. > > If you can be more > > specific, that would be useful. > > > Rahul > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com > > >

> > >

> Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com >

Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

James Gallagher wrote: > Jeremy Katz said a discussion could start if I > suggested packages to remove. I did this, quite > sensibly, so why no replies? Desktop live cd is unlikely to ship with any development tools. Short term workarounds are generally not encouraged. If you would like to create a custom live cd to meet your needs, there is good documentation for that and there are many here who can help answer questions on that. Additional note is that people working on these things are now busy getting the Fedora 9 release out which is reaching major milestones and requires lot of attention at this point. Rahul -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

James Gallagher wrote: > I realised the F9 release was imminent and hoped to > get what I though was a minor addition included (A > minor addition which would have huge benefits) > I think the LivecCD with an extra 20mb of devel rpms > would fit on a cd with overburn enabled, easily. I > think k3b, nero, roxio etc can all easily do an > overburn. Why not release the standard LiveCD and > another one with devel rpms included and a warning > that overburn will be required? > If you monitor the download stats for these I think > you'll find the devel enabled LiveCD will be more > popular There is hosting space, bandwidth. QA, documentation, web pages etc associated with every additional variant. That overhead is pretty high. Again if you want to create such a variant, people here can gladly help you. Officially hosting it is a entirely different matter. Rahul -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 22:41 +0100, James Gallagher wrote: > I think the LivecCD with an extra 20mb of devel rpms > would fit on a cd with overburn enabled, easily. I > think k3b, nero, roxio etc can all easily do an > overburn. Why not release the standard LiveCD and > another one with devel rpms included and a warning > that overburn will be required? Overburning isn't something that you want to try to support. We have enough problems with flaky drives and media burning 700 meg images as it stands :( And "just add another image" is actually a pretty expensive proposition in terms of hosting, testing, etc. And it then isn't entirely obvious how a user is going to know what the "right" thing to download is. Jeremy -- Fedora-livecd-list mailing list Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com

Right, here you go, keeping in mind that this is a LiveCD, do we really need

1. Selinux, selinux troubleshooter

2. Totem Movie player (it doesn't actually play anything does it?)

3. Gnumeric Spreadsheet (How many people are gonna use a livecd for spreadsheet work)

4.Evolution (99% of peeps will use web based mail on a livecd)

Also, bear in mind that many people install from the livecd, and are then left without an internet connection to run the add/remove package manager. If they could easily enable a wifi driver then the above packages can easily be added after installation.