New F11 for XO-1.5 build 26
by Chris Ball
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/f11-1.5/os26
Compressed image size: 377.34mb (+3.02mb since build 25)
Description of changes in this build:
Note: *this build requires firmware Q3A07 or greater*.
* Now boot from SD by default; we're moving to use SD instead of NAND.
* #9335: Fix "OFW fails to boot after reboot from Linux"
* #9342, #9421: Fix keyboard repeat on brightness keys
* #9414, #9373: Fix TamTam sounds staticky on 1.5 A2 laptops
* #9416: Pull in our openchrome driver build.
* #9417: Add activities: Jukebox, Imageviewer, Physics, Words, Typing Turtle
* #9422: Use DMI for model detection; requires Q3A07.
Package changes since build 25:
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14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/4 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> I meant to ask to which UI elements this font size would apply to.
All of them, the same way that the currently written "10" value does.
> That's all ok, but how do you see us moving from using Xft.dpi (that
> today can get us font sizes that look good on several systems), to
> font sizes to achieve the same?
I don't see how it differs. At the moment you are telling people to
falsify a dpi of X in order to get more readable fonts. Now you will
just ask them to specify font size Y.
Daniel
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Yioryos Asprobounitis
I'm sorry to intervene... but would it be possible the XO specific requirements (eg font size 7, removal of Xft.dpi etc) to be taken care by the iso to nand script?
So Sugarlabs builds as wide as possible and hardware specific things are managed by the installation scripts? or a post install config script?
Showing properly in a variety of hardware is not only a matter of font size but also toolbar sizes, images etc I do not know if SL should undertake a sophisticated scaling at this point.
my 2c
--- On Tue, 8/4/09, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org> wrote:
> From: Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
> To: "Daniel Drake" <dsd(a)laptop.org>
> Cc: "Yioryos Asprobounitis" <mavrothal(a)yahoo.com>, fedora-olpc-list(a)redhat.com, "sugar-devel" <sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org>
> Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 7:15 AM
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:48, Daniel
> Drake<dsd(a)laptop.org>
> wrote:
> > 2009/8/4 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> >>> A method to specify the font size (measured in
> points).
> >>
> >> What font size would be that?
> >
> > That would be up to the deployments.
> > For example, OLPC would choose 7.
>
> I meant to ask to which UI elements this font size would
> apply to.
>
> >> I guess we should, for improved accessibility. And
> would be convenient
> >> if the paddings, line widths, icon sizes, etc also
> scaled accordingly
> >> (may not be possible with current gtk+).
> >
> > Not yet, but there are ongoing efforts to create an
> overall "scale
> > factor"-like system that will be nice.
> >
> >> I don't hate it in itself. But I need to know
> better why using Xft.dpi
> >> is not a good solution (real technical
> disadvantages) and which
> >> mechanism uses gtk+/gnome so we can reuse their
> work there.
> >
> > It's going against an established system that ensures
> that fonts of
> > the same point size are the same physical dimensions
> when shown on
> > different screens and on paper.
> >
> > To me it also just doesn't make sense... if the fonts
> are too small,
> > then the logical thing is to use bigger fonts, not to
> start pretending
> > that you have a screen with different characteristics
> from the one
> > that you are using. This would also be important to
> deployments where
> > technical resources are lesser - at least to me,
> thinking of font size
> > in terms of the size of the font (a familiar concept
> to MS word
> > users!) is much more logical than thinking about the
> number of pixels
> > in a square inch on the display on which the fonts
> will be rendered.
> > (for example, for someone unfamiliar with that line of
> thinking, it is
> > not obvious whether you should increase or decrease
> the DPI in order
> > to make the fonts bigger)
> >
> > Freetype visually optimizes the font renderings based
> on the DPI and
> > sometimes gives odd-looking results when the selected
> DPI is not that
> > of the actual display. (ever seen the subpixel
> rendering option result
> > in worse appearance than before? this is usually the
> cause)
> >
> > It also will confuse any applications that make
> calculations based on
> > the DPI of the fonts against the millimetre-width of
> the screen --
> > although these are not that common.
> >
> > GNOME use this same kind of approach. GNOME ships
> default font sizes
> > and has an "Appearance" dialog with a fonts tab that
> lets you increase
> > or decrease the font size. KDE is similar.
>
> That's all ok, but how do you see us moving from using
> Xft.dpi (that
> today can get us font sizes that look good on several
> systems), to
> font sizes to achieve the same?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Mikus Grinbergs
Disclaimer: I am not asking for help; just expressing my concerns.
On my XO-1s I tend to run "general_purpose" Linux applications in
addition to Activities. And sometimes, when run from Terminal or
started as a "sugarized" application, their text output is the wrong
size. For instance, earlier Opera used really tiny text in its Menu
Bar; whereas currently Firefox (not from the .xo bundle) uses too
large a text size for its Menu Bar.
Although I did not test exhaustively, on XO-1 builds (e.g., Rawhide)
which had Gnome as well as Sugar, I was able to change at least some
of the "general purpose" Linux application text fonts/sizes by using
the Gnome "Appearance" controls. But when only Sugar is provided, I
don't know what to change to affect the fonts/sizes used for system-
specified elements (Menu Bar) of general_purpose Linux applications.
[I see that some of the things Sugar shows me are affected by
style.py. Haven't yet experimented with modifying sugar-xx.gtkrc --
when does sugar-72.gtkrc get used, as opposed to sugar-100.gtkrc ?]
One thing I notice on my XO-1s is that for the Terminal Activity in
F11, the text with Fedora builds is easier to read (more contrasty)
than with SoaS builds - for the *same* specification in terminalrc.
I'm someone who installs additional fonts on my XO-1 (available
for instance in Word) -- it would be useful to *know* what places to
change to affect text appearance for *every kind* of XO session.
mikus
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/4 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
>> A method to specify the font size (measured in points).
>
> What font size would be that?
That would be up to the deployments.
For example, OLPC would choose 7.
> I guess we should, for improved accessibility. And would be convenient
> if the paddings, line widths, icon sizes, etc also scaled accordingly
> (may not be possible with current gtk+).
Not yet, but there are ongoing efforts to create an overall "scale
factor"-like system that will be nice.
> I don't hate it in itself. But I need to know better why using Xft.dpi
> is not a good solution (real technical disadvantages) and which
> mechanism uses gtk+/gnome so we can reuse their work there.
It's going against an established system that ensures that fonts of
the same point size are the same physical dimensions when shown on
different screens and on paper.
To me it also just doesn't make sense... if the fonts are too small,
then the logical thing is to use bigger fonts, not to start pretending
that you have a screen with different characteristics from the one
that you are using. This would also be important to deployments where
technical resources are lesser - at least to me, thinking of font size
in terms of the size of the font (a familiar concept to MS word
users!) is much more logical than thinking about the number of pixels
in a square inch on the display on which the fonts will be rendered.
(for example, for someone unfamiliar with that line of thinking, it is
not obvious whether you should increase or decrease the DPI in order
to make the fonts bigger)
Freetype visually optimizes the font renderings based on the DPI and
sometimes gives odd-looking results when the selected DPI is not that
of the actual display. (ever seen the subpixel rendering option result
in worse appearance than before? this is usually the cause)
It also will confuse any applications that make calculations based on
the DPI of the fonts against the millimetre-width of the screen --
although these are not that common.
GNOME use this same kind of approach. GNOME ships default font sizes
and has an "Appearance" dialog with a fonts tab that lets you increase
or decrease the font size. KDE is similar.
Daniel
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/4 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> Ok, what do you propose?
A method to specify the font size (measured in points).
This should be geared towards deployments, so it should be something
that can be pre-set in global configuration, or customized through
files that are not in conflict with files provided by packages. That
way OLPC can provide a configuration which just sets size 7 or
whatever.
And if there is interest in exposing this to the user, I would say it
should be kept as simple as one button that makes the fonts get
bigger, and another button that makes them get smaller. Those buttons
would not mess with DPI, they would just increment or decrement the
font size.
I'd be happy to write that into a ticket if you don't hate the idea :)
Daniel
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/4 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> We could make it a GConf property if it's really needed, but as you
> already know, I think we should have all the UI use a default of 10
> and solely use Xft.dpi to scale it up and down. We don't need to
> discuss this now again, though.
I would like to discuss it. In my opinion, artificially adjusting DPI
is the wrong answer. Is there room for change?
Daniel
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/3 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 18:52, Daniel Drake<dsd(a)laptop.org> wrote:
>> 2009/8/3 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
>>> On which build I can see that?
>>
>> Any of the recent F11-for-XO, so try Stephen Parrish's os3.
>
> Checked there and both sugar's style.py and the gtkrc display 10 as
> the font size. Is this size of 7 set somewhere else?
sugar-xo.gtkrc is used to set that font, but modifying style.py is
probably what we missed. Is there a nicer way than forking the source
code to make this change, though?
Daniel
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Yioryos Asprobounitis
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org> wrote:
> From: Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
> To: "Daniel Drake" <dsd(a)laptop.org>
> Cc: "Yioryos Asprobounitis" <mavrothal(a)yahoo.com>, fedora-olpc-list(a)redhat.com
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:59 PM
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 18:52, Daniel
> Drake<dsd(a)laptop.org>
> wrote:
> > 2009/8/3 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> >> On which build I can see that?
> >
> > Any of the recent F11-for-XO, so try Stephen Parrish's
> os3.
>
> Checked there and both sugar's style.py and the gtkrc
> display 10 as
> the font size. Is this size of 7 set somewhere else?
I do not know that but I do know that setting the font size to 7 in style.py fixes the fonts in journal, home list view and Pippy activity!
Now, how this can be done in a hardware independent way within sugar?... is for the big boys :-)
Thanks
PS: Any chance for the Pippy.activity import module function to work (ticket 1126)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Daniel
> >
>
14 years, 9 months
Re: F11 for XO1 - Fonts
by Daniel Drake
2009/8/3 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu(a)sugarlabs.org>:
> On which build I can see that?
Any of the recent F11-for-XO, so try Stephen Parrish's os3.
Daniel
14 years, 9 months