Hello
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange
decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never
looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general
problem
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_create_user_page
And if you look right this step come long before contacting a mentor
I'm struggling to see the relevance of whether I updated a wiki page or
not. Can you help me understand why this is such an important point in the
conversation about inactive mentors? I ran through the guidance and the
biggest hurdle is the mentorship which I wanted to engage on and learn
from.
I just want to point out that discussions like this to win some moral high
ground is the exact reason people don't want to get involved. It makes a
lot of our mailing lists a very unwelcoming place and something I am
disappointed to see on the Ambassador list. I have invited you on several
replies to bring something constructive to try and move the conversation
forward that might benefit the Ambassador program. Somehow it keeps getting
dragged back to an admin point of no real merit and its detracting from the
thread. I'm going to stop replying now as my point about active and
inactive is told from my personal viewpoint and is logged on the ticket.
I'd really love your constructive comments to land on that ticket and help
make this a stronger community.
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 02:08 Uhr schrieb Vipul Siddharth <
siddharthvipul1(a)gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:05 AM S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available. Its not naming and
>> shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the system is. As you
>> did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly
>> why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements? I can not
>> find you email
>>
>
> You missed the point, he is not an ambassador yet. And if the mentors
> would have replied, he would have been asked to add his email to the user
> wiki because isn't it mentors' responsibility to see the candidate before
> sponsoring. I also can't find anywhere saying it's mandatory to have an
> email address in the wiki but I do see "Your user page is your own space,
> so feel free to make it look as you wish". (I don't care about the number
> of mentors contacted, as a newcomer he could have contacted mentors from
> other regions as well without knowing he exactly has to contact his area's
> mentors. I am not going to presume his activity as you did.
>
> But, could we please stop playing this bullying game? If you could
> provide some solution or constructive feedback would be great. All I see is
> complaining and rant! that's not helpful!
>
>
>> And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what
>> inactive is? You? We have there ambassador who count as highly active but
>> they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no
>> activity.
>>
>
>> There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything
>> else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some
>> successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of
>> time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I
>> wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I
>> do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <
>> lgriffin(a)redhat.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an
>>>> oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an
>>>> Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to
become
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
>>>
>>> To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the
>>>> region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their
>>>> mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
>>>>
>>>
>>> Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes
>>> against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in
>>> disenfranchising volunteers
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people
>>>> who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the
programme"
>>>>
>>>
>>> I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you
>>> want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't
a
>>> constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have
>>> a passion for.
>>> If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a
>>> means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
>>>
>>> I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their
>>>> experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours
>>>> contacting ambassadors.
>>>>
>>>> The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show
>>>> you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy
>>> for them to consider it.
>>>
>>> You make here proposals who are already in place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback
>>> ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow
view of
>>> the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or
>>> suggesting that.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> br gnokii
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <
>>>> lgriffin(a)redhat.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter
<sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program
was
>>>>>> sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess.
The people
>>>>>> who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to
get their
>>>>>> own problems solved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind
that
>>>>>> this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that
the
>>>>>> totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they
call it
>>>>>> still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the
>>>>>> quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and
nothing which
>>>>>> could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic
behavior in past
>>>>>> FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even
they not
>>>>>> been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its
all there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone
>>>>>> hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the
IRC for a
>>>>>> month.
>>>>>> I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS
for
>>>>>> while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the
story not
>>>>>> just what suits her/his needs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting
and
>>>>>> says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how
nice we
>>>>>> keep all logs so its provable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn
into
>>>>> politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my
experience of
>>>>> the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as
the CPE
>>>>> Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks
I
>>>>> know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go
>>>>> through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented
steps
>>>>> to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of
6
>>>>> months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were
both
>>>>> too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some
of
>>>>> the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or
so to
>>>>> join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I
have
>>>>> plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my
day job
>>>>> but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the
>>>>> program works and how we are trying to attract people into the
Community.
>>>>> It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall
program needs
>>>>> an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive
or
>>>>> unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be
able
>>>>> to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers
figure out
>>>>> who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because
>>>>>> there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own
fault
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look
>>>>>> first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I
try to
>>>>>> understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they
make sense
>>>>>> then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But nothing like was done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> br gnokii
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin W. Flory (he/him) <jflory7(a)gmail.com> schrieb am
So., 24.
>>>>>> Mai 2020, 00:09:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Onyeibo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo(a)schemefusion.com wrote:
>>>>>>> > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador
Programme
>>>>>>> then the
>>>>>>> > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might
be
>>>>>>> helpful to
>>>>>>> > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's
Mentor programme.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on
events.
>>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>>> mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join
SIG can
>>>>>>> provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an
Advocate.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>> also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora
Packager.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> Join SIG might also point someone to translation or
localization.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are
similar, but
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors.
It was
>>>>>>> meant
>>>>>>> to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to
contribute to
>>>>>>> Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than
the
>>>>>>> mentoring
>>>>>>> > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored
or after
>>>>>>> you Join.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
>>>>>>> > 1. Event Planning
>>>>>>> > 2. Fedora Representation in Events
>>>>>>> > 3. Event Reporting
>>>>>>> > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the
Mindshare
>>>>>>> Committee manages (at least since 2018).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to call out two things:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Fedora Advocates
>>>>>>> 2. Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to
improve
>>>>>>> event
>>>>>>> organizing process. This is done through the Advocate
program,
>>>>>>> managed
>>>>>>> by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for
folks
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting
the word
>>>>>>> out:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for
"Digital
>>>>>>> Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is
still under discussion
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>> encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Justin W. Flory (he/him)
>>>>>>> jwf.io
>>>>>>> TZ=America/New_York
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> ambassadors-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>>>>>> Fedora Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>> List Guidelines:
>>>>>>>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>>>>>>> List Archives:
>>>>>>>
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedorapro...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>>> ambassadors-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>>>>> Fedora Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>> List Guidelines:
>>>>>>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>>>>>> List Archives:
>>>>>>
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedorapro...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Leigh Griffin
>>>>>
>>>>> Engineering Manager
>>>>>
>>>>> Red Hat Waterford <
https://www.redhat.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Communications House
>>>>>
>>>>> Cork Road, Waterford City
>>>>>
>>>>> lgriffin(a)redhat.com
>>>>> M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin
>>>>> @redhatjobs <
https://twitter.com/redhatjobs> redhatjobs
>>>>> <
https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs> @redhatjobs
>>>>> <
https://instagram.com/redhatjobs>
>>>>> <
https://red.ht/sig>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> make me rich, buy my Inkscape book
http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> make me rich, buy my Inkscape book
http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
>> _______________________________________________
>> ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> ambassadors-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> Fedora Code of Conduct:
>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>> List Guidelines:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>> List Archives:
>>
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedorapro...
>>
>
>
> --
> Vipul Siddharth
> He/His/Him
> Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team
> Red Hat
> w: vipul.dev
>
--
make me rich, buy my Inkscape book
http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)