The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
=> or other forums from local communities of course ;)
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
And who will get to say if one is or is not doing all those things properly ?
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
Regards,
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
On Thu, 19 Feb 2009, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
=> or other forums from local communities of course ;)
Of course.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or
new users.
And who will get to say if one is or is not doing all those things properly ?
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
I agree.
--Max
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) bochecha@fedoraproject.org wrote:
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
Nicely put. Completely agree.
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 13:39 +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
+1
Luca
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 19:42 +0100, Luca Foppiano wrote:
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 13:39 +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
+1
+1 for me too... I think the local leaders will be a crucial point on any system or process for identifying an inactive ambassador.
~π
Luca
+1 for the local ambassadors idea
2009/2/19 Papadeas Pierros ppapadeas@gmail.com
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 19:42 +0100, Luca Foppiano wrote:
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 13:39 +0100, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
+1
+1 for me too... I think the local leaders will be a crucial point on any system or process for identifying an inactive ambassador.
~π
Luca
-- Pierros Papadeas PGP key: 0x6130DBF8 ppapadeas@gmail.com liknus @ GRnet , Freenode
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Am Donnerstag 19 Februar 2009 12:34:20 schrieb Max Spevack:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
+1 (is maintained by hand)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
We feed this pages from FAS - we just started to collect the scripts in a git repo https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/view/gitfama but we have just started
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
right now it is a mixture
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it. We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
+1
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project. I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
+1 good compromise
CU Joerg
Joerg Simon schrieb:
Am Donnerstag 19 Februar 2009 12:34:20 schrieb Max Spevack:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
A simple script grab the data out of the FAS but the wiki part has to be done by hand.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
The Count page is a summary of all country categories from the wiki. If an ambassador put '[[Category:AmbassadorsCountry]]' on her/his page then the name shows up on the country category page. As you know this is a mediawiki feature.
Fabian
Max Spevack wrote:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
3) I still have trouble with, as can't seem to grasp the wiki.
Every time text is put in it's gone the next day.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
Guilty currently, hope to have something for Dec. (F11?)
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
Never thought of that, guilty.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or
new users.
I could do with some myself.
As I am currently back in school, and learning some web stuff. Hope to catch up :)
Frank
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 01:21:18PM +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
Max Spevack wrote:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
- I still have trouble with, as can't seem to grasp the wiki.
Every time text is put in it's gone the next day.
Please feel free to stop by #fedora-ambassadors or even #fedora-docs if you need some help. Part of what makes this a community is our desire to help each other when we have problems. The first step is letting us know you're encountering one -- so thanks.
Hi,
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
+1 I'm totally agree with that... it will be useful
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
+1
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
Done for me :)
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
We (Tunisian Ambassador) organize more than 3 or 4 event per year (2 Release Party and 2 other, juste to promote)
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
Done, but at Fedora Fr Planet ;)
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
We do our better to be present at all the ML and forum, specially at the Fedora Fr community
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
Clear :)
Regards,
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
Perhaps I'm thinking about this problem in a more surgical way. Ambassadors contribute in so many different ways that I don't even feel comfortable thinking I can enumerate them and so I prefer to not label an ambassador inactive because they don't contribute in the ways I can enumerate.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
This to my mind is the core of the issue at hand. In FAmNA we have been encouraging ambassadors in our part of the community to use
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Regions
This is voluntary, ambassadors may put themselves on this page if they so choose. If they do then it is a reasonable expectation that they will respond to people who try to contact them using it. They might spend 5 hours a day helping others in #fedora but if they don't respond to someone contacting them from this page then they should not be on this page.
One ambassador might prefer and enjoy being the conference booth face of Fedora, another might enjoy being the IRC face of Fedora. Both of those groups are self-selecting. The wiki face of Fedora should be self-selecting also, not something everyone in the ambassador group belongs to by default.
... snip ...
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
I agree this is important. Opening f-a-l (which I will never advocate again) was motivated by the desire to have an obvious place for people to contact *someone* who is an ambassador about whatever they need assistance with. That objective can be accomplished with the wiki too.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
Here is where I think there is a much simpler approach. Do they respond to email at whatever address they have listed on the wiki. If no that means they aren't paying attention to being the wiki face of Fedora and probably would be fine not being a part of that piece of the ambassador puzzle. Really at this point that is the only piece that concerns me.
... snip ...
John
Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:26 PM, inode0 inode0@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving,
once
and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
Perhaps I'm thinking about this problem in a more surgical way. Ambassadors contribute in so many different ways that I don't even feel comfortable thinking I can enumerate them and so I prefer to not label an ambassador inactive because they don't contribute in the ways I can enumerate.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters
pruned
from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important
because
non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages
need
to be given to a new owner.
This to my mind is the core of the issue at hand. In FAmNA we have been encouraging ambassadors in our part of the community to use
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Regions
This is voluntary, ambassadors may put themselves on this page if they so choose. If they do then it is a reasonable expectation that they will respond to people who try to contact them using it. They might spend 5 hours a day helping others in #fedora but if they don't respond to someone contacting them from this page then they should not be on this page.
One ambassador might prefer and enjoy being the conference booth face of Fedora, another might enjoy being the IRC face of Fedora. Both of those groups are self-selecting. The wiki face of Fedora should be self-selecting also, not something everyone in the ambassador group belongs to by default.
... snip ...
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per
country".
That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it,
and
Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you
interested
in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some
information"
and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors
near
you.
I agree this is important. Opening f-a-l (which I will never advocate again) was motivated by the desire to have an obvious place for people to contact *someone* who is an ambassador about whatever they need assistance with. That objective can be accomplished with the wiki too.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that
the
people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal
with
organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
Here is where I think there is a much simpler approach. Do they respond to email at whatever address they have listed on the wiki. If no that means they aren't paying attention to being the wiki face of Fedora and probably would be fine not being a part of that piece of the ambassador puzzle. Really at this point that is the only piece that concerns me.
... snip ...
John
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Just one more note that each ambassador has a speciality or target for his/her region for Fedora and its respected community. The authority should have to think about replacement before taking any action for the inactive ambassadors. More over, we should encourage the ambassadors for his task always. Finding inactive ambassador is great but everyone should have to make sure that given task of that region is going smoothly.
Regards,
Rashadul Islam ---------------------- GPG Key 5557BFAC Finger Print 3869 732D FC43 92B4 2805 85DD C072 0238 4C74 3A69
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 08:26 -0600, inode0 wrote:
Here is where I think there is a much simpler approach. Do they respond to email at whatever address they have listed on the wiki. If no that means they aren't paying attention to being the wiki face of Fedora and probably would be fine not being a part of that piece of the ambassador puzzle. Really at this point that is the only piece that concerns me.
I also think this is a good idea, at the same time we verify the accuracy of the FAS accounts.
Steven
Am Donnerstag 19 Februar 2009 17:29:38 schrieb Steven Moix:
I also think this is a good idea, at the same time we verify the accuracy of the FAS accounts.
Spot has promised that he verifies the FAS Accounts when he check for CLA compliance - even as Administrator of Ambassador Group i can not see all the Account Contents if the privacy flag is set
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:26:06AM -0600, inode0 wrote:
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
Perhaps I'm thinking about this problem in a more surgical way. Ambassadors contribute in so many different ways that I don't even feel comfortable thinking I can enumerate them and so I prefer to not label an ambassador inactive because they don't contribute in the ways I can enumerate.
[snip good points]
I also am concerned about labeling and requirements and narrow values of what is and isn't an Ambassador. There have to be better ways to ensure that people are contacted promptly.
One way is to have people add themselves to contact lists. For example, I could just put on my own [[User:Quaid]] page a tag [[Category:Contact me as an Ambassador]] (or something). When I'm no longer interested in being contact, I remove that tag from my page.
Just be sure to put a note on the page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Contact_me_as_an_Ambassador that says to please contact someone else if you haven't heard back within X days.
- Karsten
I understand the fear of being too strict about what an ambassador job description should be. I'm afraid that, without such a job description the problem will not go away. A new ambassador (like me for ex) it's left wondering about Fedora wiki and IRC channels without a clue what to do, ending posting where it's not supposed to and generally being in the way. Fedora wiki and all the community materials are a lot to be taken in by a new contributor, and without a mentors program implemented it's even harder. I liked the steps implemented for joining. I had 3 clear task to complete. I think this tipe of clear assignments are needed and we can discuss exception later. I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for joining "Step 4 - Read this"
2009/3/1 Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:26:06AM -0600, inode0 wrote:
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com
wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving,
once
and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
Perhaps I'm thinking about this problem in a more surgical way. Ambassadors contribute in so many different ways that I don't even feel comfortable thinking I can enumerate them and so I prefer to not label an ambassador inactive because they don't contribute in the ways I can enumerate.
[snip good points]
I also am concerned about labeling and requirements and narrow values of what is and isn't an Ambassador. There have to be better ways to ensure that people are contacted promptly.
One way is to have people add themselves to contact lists. For example, I could just put on my own [[User:Quaid]] page a tag [[Category:Contact me as an Ambassador]] (or something). When I'm no longer interested in being contact, I remove that tag from my page.
Just be sure to put a note on the page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Contact_me_as_an_Ambassador that says to please contact someone else if you haven't heard back within X days.
- Karsten
-- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/3/1 Ewan Luca ewanluca@gmail.com:
I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for joining "Step 4 - Read this"
Great idea. We should think about it, maybe you could open a thread discussing about this topic, seprately from this closed discussion.
I think there is something that talk about resources, but I focused document could work better.
Something to think about, really.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 10:47:51AM +0200, Ewan Luca wrote:
I understand the fear of being too strict about what an ambassador job description should be. I'm afraid that, without such a job description the problem will not go away. A new ambassador (like me for ex) it's left wondering about Fedora wiki and IRC channels without a clue what to do, ending posting where it's not supposed to and generally being in the way.
I don't think these ideas are at odds. Rather than a job description, it could be, "Typical duties of an Ambassador," and the mentoring + guide can lead people in the door.
We just want to avoid a strict description that locks in too little and leaves out too much. I know people are a great representatives of Fedora, but cannot or will not do the various steps to get the title. I'd rather see us be more inclusive without being too diluted.
Fedora wiki and all the community materials are a lot to be taken in by a new contributor, and without a mentors program implemented it's even harder. I liked the steps implemented for joining. I had 3 clear task to complete. I think this tipe of clear assignments are needed and we can discuss exception later. I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for joining "Step 4 - Read this"
That sounds like a great guide to write on the wiki. I personally dislike slide presentations for conveying depth of information -- they are naturally compressed compared to full paragraphs of content.
- Karsten
It's settled then: there will be no "job description". Just the 16 pages booklet for "newbies" with information condensed to give them a jump start until they have time to read the wiki which is more comprehensive.
2009/3/1 Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com
On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 10:47:51AM +0200, Ewan Luca wrote:
I understand the fear of being too strict about what an ambassador job description should be. I'm afraid that, without such a job description
the
problem will not go away. A new ambassador (like me for ex) it's left wondering about Fedora wiki and IRC channels without a clue what to do, ending posting where it's not supposed to and generally being in the way.
I don't think these ideas are at odds. Rather than a job description, it could be, "Typical duties of an Ambassador," and the mentoring + guide can lead people in the door.
We just want to avoid a strict description that locks in too little and leaves out too much. I know people are a great representatives of Fedora, but cannot or will not do the various steps to get the title. I'd rather see us be more inclusive without being too diluted.
Fedora wiki and all the community materials are a lot to be taken in by a new contributor, and without a mentors program implemented it's even
harder.
I liked the steps implemented for joining. I had 3 clear task to
complete. I
think this tipe of clear assignments are needed and we can discuss
exception
later. I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for joining "Step 4 - Read this"
That sounds like a great guide to write on the wiki. I personally dislike slide presentations for conveying depth of information -- they are naturally compressed compared to full paragraphs of content.
- Karsten
-- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I'm new to, and i agree with Ewan, some guidelines for new ambassadors would be nice. If i can help you with something, let me know.
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 23:55 +0200, Ewan Luca wrote:
It's settled then: there will be no "job description". Just the 16 pages booklet for "newbies" with information condensed to give them a jump start until they have time to read the wiki which is more comprehensive.
2009/3/1 Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 10:47:51AM +0200, Ewan Luca wrote: > I understand the fear of being too strict about what an ambassador job > description should be. I'm afraid that, without such a job description the > problem will not go away. A new ambassador (like me for ex) it's left > wondering about Fedora wiki and IRC channels without a clue what to do, > ending posting where it's not supposed to and generally being in the > way.
I don't think these ideas are at odds. Rather than a job description, it could be, "Typical duties of an Ambassador," and the mentoring + guide can lead people in the door. We just want to avoid a strict description that locks in too little and leaves out too much. I know people are a great representatives of Fedora, but cannot or will not do the various steps to get the title. I'd rather see us be more inclusive without being too diluted. > Fedora wiki and all the community materials are a lot to be taken in by a > new contributor, and without a mentors program implemented it's even harder. > I liked the steps implemented for joining. I had 3 clear task to complete. I > think this tipe of clear assignments are needed and we can discuss exception > later. > I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages > presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a > thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for > joining "Step 4 - Read this"AD0E0C41 That sounds like a great guide to write on the wiki. I personally dislike slide presentations for conveying depth of information -- they are naturally compressed compared to full paragraphs of content. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Vincent,
Take a look: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors#Fedora_Ambassadors_Goals
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
-----Mensagem original----- De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Vincent Van der Kussen Enviada em: terça-feira, 3 de março de 2009 16:24 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
I'm new to, and i agree with Ewan, some guidelines for new ambassadors would be nice. If i can help you with something, let me know.
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 23:55 +0200, Ewan Luca wrote:
It's settled then: there will be no "job description". Just the 16 pages booklet for "newbies" with information condensed to give them a jump start until they have time to read the wiki which is more comprehensive.
2009/3/1 Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 10:47:51AM +0200, Ewan Luca wrote: > I understand the fear of being too strict about what an ambassador job > description should be. I'm afraid that, without such a job description the > problem will not go away. A new ambassador (like me for ex) it's left > wondering about Fedora wiki and IRC channels without a clue what to do, > ending posting where it's not supposed to and generally being in the > way.
I don't think these ideas are at odds. Rather than a job description, it could be, "Typical duties of an Ambassador," and the mentoring + guide can lead people in the door. We just want to avoid a strict description that locks in too little and leaves out too much. I know people are a great representatives of Fedora, but cannot or will not do the various steps to get the title. I'd rather see us be more inclusive without being too diluted. > Fedora wiki and all the community materials are a lot to be taken in by a > new contributor, and without a mentors program implemented it's even harder. > I liked the steps implemented for joining. I had 3 clear task to complete. I > think this tipe of clear assignments are needed and we can discuss exception > later. > I'll also feel the need for "Quick starter guide" - a 10-20 slide/pages > presentation of the comunity structure and resources. If there is such a > thing I didn't find it yet and maybe it should be one of the steps for > joining "Step 4 - Read this"AD0E0C41 That sounds like a great guide to write on the wiki. I personally dislike slide presentations for conveying depth of information -- they are naturally compressed compared to full paragraphs of content. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
__________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
Hello Everyone,
Greetings. :)
Have others been inquired about Fedora 11's progress? :)
I am working within the Fedora 9 and Fedora 10 realm. :)
Also, some of my exposure and material are based upon using Virtual Machines (VMs) such as VirtualBox as well as VirtualPC. :)
Have others been asked about virtualization? :)
Any ideas and/or thoughts are greatly appreciated. :v)
Please have a good day! :~)
Thank You Sincerely =-=-=-=-= - David - =-=-=-=-= David Ramsey
I have installed a virtual pc machine for Istal Fedora 10, but it only beging to run... but no more...I can't to use it. I tried with Fedroa Core 9, but it its show me a message about the processor can't work with it.
MI machine its a board via, intel celeron processor 2.8 Ghz (x86), 1gb RAM, and 40 Gb DD.
What Do I can?
Some one that write to me at spanish?
¡Sé el Bello 51 de People en Español! ¡Es tu oportunidad de Brillar! Sube tus fotos ya. http://www.51bello.com/
hbm digital schrieb:
I have installed a virtual pc machine for Istal Fedora 10, but it only beging to run... but no more...I can't to use it. I tried with Fedroa Core 9, but it its show me a message about the processor can't work with it.
MI machine its a board via, intel celeron processor 2.8 Ghz (x86), 1gb RAM, and 40 Gb DD.
What Do I can?
Read the mailing list guideline and ask the right list. This is not a support list. Thanks.
Kind regards,
Fabian
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MailinglistGuidelines
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 12:34 +0100, Max Spevack wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
+1
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
No idea. The CountryList seems to serve sufficiently unless someone can come up with an instance as to why we need a Count page ...
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
+1 ... (roy raises both his hands in support of this)
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
(1) Done (2) Fairly consistent reader of fedora-ambassadors-list but I don't reply ... mmm, I guess I have to be more "vocal" then :P (3) Sufficient information on the wiki. It has a link to my personal site so I am definitely within reach
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or
new users.
Mmm, this might be kind of tricky. I guess a lot of us do some form of "promotion" and "encourage" the use of Fedora in our own little ways. Event organization might be a stretch for some. Blogging is possible but some would rather do so on their preferred blogging platform like LJ or BS rather than on Planet Fedora. I don't have a better suggestion at present but I am sure we could explore this a little more.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
2cents suggestion ... leave the inactive ambassadors on the directory of ambassadors but flag them with an "Inactive" tag. That way, the public can still elect to contact an inactive ambassador should they feel absolutely necessary (or perhaps in an obscure situation, an "inactive" ambassador might actually provide a more prompt response than an active one :P) ... An ambassador with an "Inactive" tag for say, 6/12 months, can then be removed from the listing as per suggestion above. This prevents the sudden "disappearance" of an appointed ambassador and allows the "inactive" ambassador an opportunity to work on gaining back that "active" award before he's removed from the list.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
I absolutely agree with this proposal (I just give my opinions in the other related thread, please refer to my e-mail there to not repet myself).
Thank you
Francesco Ugolini
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
+1 to this and, thanks for writing this up.
+1
2009/2/20 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay foss.mailinglists@gmail.com
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors
group
in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful,
so
that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them
back
on the directory.
+1 to this and, thanks for writing this up.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1
2009/2/20 María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org
+1
2009/2/20 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay foss.mailinglists@gmail.com
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors
group
in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful,
so
that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them
back
on the directory.
+1 to this and, thanks for writing this up.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Original message From:Walter Cervini< wcervini@fedoraproject.org >Date: 19 Feb 09 21:50:03Subject:Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solutionTo: fedoraambassadorslist@redhat.com+12009/2/20 Mara Leandro+12009/2/20 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Max Spevackwrote:> WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS? > > If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group > in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedoraambassadors list. > > But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by > country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so > that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do publicfacing > things. > > When someone resurfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back > on the directory.+1 to this and, thanks for writing this up.http://www.gutenberg..net Fine literature digitally republished http://www.plos.org Public Library of Science http:// www.creativecommons.org Flexible copyright for creative work Fedoraambassadorslist mailing list Fedoraambassadorslist@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedoraambassadorslist taticaMaria Gracia Leandrohttp://www.tatica.orghttp://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.comhttp://www.fedorave.orghttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/M... 440285GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56"Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" Fedoraambassadorslist mailing list Fedoraambassadorslist@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedoraambassadorslist W@lt3r C3rv1n|
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
María Leandro wrote:
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
Assigning tasks? Would feel like i'm back at school and i'm being given homework :)
Paul
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Paul Mellors paul@paulmellors.net wrote:
María Leandro wrote:
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
Assigning tasks? Would feel like i'm back at school and i'm being given homework :)
Paul
I feel what María meant was something that was pointed early: Mentoring. Help people to find what to do or how to help. I think mentoring has to improve, I feel lost at some points. And there is not much people on IRC channel for mentors. But I liked the relationship: tasks <-> homework :)
I really like what Max summarized. +1
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesnt mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), Im contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if Im working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes < rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel%0A0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I dont know how these works in the rest of the world, but Im one of the firsts Ambassadors in Brazil. We are 44 Ambassadors here, and we know who is working and who isnt.
To be more focused in our country, we created a local mail list, and are working to provide local actions. In this mean time, 5 long years, we talked with Fedora Board to remove inactive Ambassadors, but how we set who is working and who isnt? We dont, we just try to contact every Ambassador, from time to time, to get an report of their actions. I can tell you that 10% or 20% doesn't even respond our e-mails. We know that more 10% or 20% isn't working with Fedora, assign Ambassador Group to have their name in our staff. In this situation I believe necessary a kick off, only in this situation.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Adli Azaddin Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:56 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote: María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team 2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
__________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
_______________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - Sempre a melhor opção para você! Experimente já e veja as novidades. http://br.yahoo.com/mailbeta/tudonovo/
Maybe if we define the list of the country leaders be much easy to know who works or not
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
I don’t know how these works in the rest of the world, but I’m one of the firsts Ambassadors in Brazil. We are 44 Ambassadors here, and we know who is working and who isn’t.
To be more focused in our country, we created a local mail list, and are working to provide local actions. In this mean time, 5 long years, we talked with Fedora Board to remove inactive Ambassadors, but how we set who is working and who isn’t? We don’t, we just try to contact every Ambassador, from time to time, to get an report of their actions. I can tell you that 10% or 20% doesn't even respond our e-mails. We know that more 10% or 20% isn't working with Fedora, assign Ambassador Group to have their name in our staff. In this situation I believe necessary a kick off, only in this situation.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Adli Azaddin Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:56 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote: María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team 2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
_______________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - Sempre a melhor opção para você! Experimente já e veja as novidades. http://br.yahoo.com/mailbeta/tudonovo/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Can't we have 1 ambassador report from each country/city ? In those extreme situations I think this could work
2009/2/20 Charly Manjarrez charlymanja@yahoo.com.mx
Maybe if we define the list of the country leaders be much easy to know who works or not
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
I don't know how these works in the rest of the world, but I'm one of the firsts Ambassadors in Brazil. We are 44 Ambassadors here, and we know who is working and who isn't.
To be more focused in our country, we created a local mail list, and are working to provide local actions. In this mean time, 5 long years, we talked with Fedora Board to remove inactive Ambassadors, but how we set who is working and who isn't? We don't, we just try to contact every Ambassador, from time to time, to get an report of their actions. I can tell you that 10% or 20% doesn't even respond our e-mails. We know that more 10% or 20% isn't working with Fedora, assign Ambassador Group to have their name in our staff. In this situation I believe necessary a kick off, only in this situation.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Adli Azaddin Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:56 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote: María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team 2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
_______________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - Sempre a melhor opção para você! Experimente já e veja as novidades. http://br.yahoo.com/mailbeta/tudonovo/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
To me, very few people can: the local leaders. They are the ones who know the Ambassadors in their region and what they do. And if there's an Ambassador in their region they never heard of, maybe it means he is inactive...
+1
BR Frederic
2009/2/19 María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org
Can't we have 1 ambassador report from each country/city ? In those extreme situations I think this could work
2009/2/20 Charly Manjarrez charlymanja@yahoo.com.mx
Maybe if we define the list of the country leaders be much easy to know who
works or not
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
I don't know how these works in the rest of the world, but I'm one of the firsts Ambassadors in Brazil. We are 44 Ambassadors here, and we know who is working and who isn't.
To be more focused in our country, we created a local mail list, and are working to provide local actions. In this mean time, 5 long years, we talked with Fedora Board to remove inactive Ambassadors, but how we set who is working and who isn't? We don't, we just try to contact every Ambassador, from time to time, to get an report of their actions. I can tell you that 10% or 20% doesn't even respond our e-mails. We know that more 10% or 20% isn't working with Fedora, assign Ambassador Group to have their name in our staff. In this situation I believe necessary a kick off, only in this situation.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Adli Azaddin Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:56 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote: María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team 2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
_______________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - Sempre a melhor opção para você! Experimente já e veja as novidades. http://br.yahoo.com/mailbeta/tudonovo/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I can say that I haven't much time yet due to a project at work, but I am currently creating an event at a local college for April. I just have a project that needs to be code complete relatively soon and we lost developers so I am working more than I wish. I have set up a blog and have created some posts in regards to Fedora 10 FEL. I guess what I am trying to say that since I have only been ambassador for about a month, that don't remove me from the list, I will be more active once I clear my workload. I apologize for not being active immediately.
2009/2/19 María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org
Can't we have 1 ambassador report from each country/city ? In those extreme situations I think this could work
2009/2/20 Charly Manjarrez charlymanja@yahoo.com.mx
Maybe if we define the list of the country leaders be much easy to know who
works or not
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
I don't know how these works in the rest of the world, but I'm one of the firsts Ambassadors in Brazil. We are 44 Ambassadors here, and we know who is working and who isn't.
To be more focused in our country, we created a local mail list, and are working to provide local actions. In this mean time, 5 long years, we talked with Fedora Board to remove inactive Ambassadors, but how we set who is working and who isn't? We don't, we just try to contact every Ambassador, from time to time, to get an report of their actions. I can tell you that 10% or 20% doesn't even respond our e-mails. We know that more 10% or 20% isn't working with Fedora, assign Ambassador Group to have their name in our staff. In this situation I believe necessary a kick off, only in this situation.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Adli Azaddin Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:56 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
i agree with Rodrigo Menezes
cheers again :D On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote: María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team 2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
_______________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - Sempre a melhor opção para você! Experimente já e veja as novidades. http://br.yahoo.com/mailbeta/tudonovo/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/2/19 Terrance Hutchinson < hidden >:
I have set up a blog and have created some posts in regards to Fedora 10 FEL. I guess what I am trying to say that since I have only been ambassador for about a month, that don't remove me from the list, I will be more active once I clear my workload. I apologize for not being active immediately.
Hello Terrance, I welcome your initiative for blogging FEL and invite you to add this blog on the Fedora Planet. http://planet.fedoraproject.org
At the same time, I invite you to join the FEL mailing list as we are constantly discussing on ways to improve it. Some discussions are even for F-12 timeframe.
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-electronic-lab-list
Kind regards, Chitlesh
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people
w/questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
Every Computer System that we put out into the Schools has Fedora Installed and I have to do a presentation at every School several times over.. but I would not consider these "Events" ..so based on the above requirements I would be considered a non-active Ambassador..and I do think that I am very active and contributing a lot to the Open Source Community and in Particular Fedora..
Kevin Higgins wrote:
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
Like other people have noted, there are numerous ways to contribute to the Fedora project. I have helped more than 100 people in my city to obtain the Fedora image. I just burn the Fedora image to the DVD media they bring. Initially, I was updating each media burn on the Wiki. Nowadays, I have stopped updating the Wiki. But I do help people obtain Fedora media. I even help lot of people with Fedora related technical issues. I run my own blog and forum site where I write about Fedora too and answer questions about Fedora.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
With a little effort, maybe I can enlist myself in the planet.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org
http://fedoraforum.org/ to help people w/questions.
How about IRC and other Forums?
Sudheer,
There's no way to create a single channel to participate. Every country will have their channels. Max told about FedoraForum, but he is talking about sites "like" FedoraForum.org, maybe in your country IRC is more often used, this is valid too.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
-----Mensagem original----- De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Sudheer Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 02:13 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: RES: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
Kevin Higgins wrote:
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
Like other people have noted, there are numerous ways to contribute to the Fedora project. I have helped more than 100 people in my city to obtain the Fedora image. I just burn the Fedora image to the DVD media they bring. Initially, I was updating each media burn on the Wiki. Nowadays, I have stopped updating the Wiki. But I do help people obtain Fedora media. I even help lot of people with Fedora related technical issues. I run my own blog and forum site where I write about Fedora too and answer questions about Fedora.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
With a little effort, maybe I can enlist myself in the planet.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org
http://fedoraforum.org/ to help people w/questions.
How about IRC and other Forums?
2009/2/20 Kevin Higgins crossbytes@gmail.com:
Every Computer System that we put out into the Schools has Fedora Installed and I have to do a presentation at every School several times over.. but I would not consider these "Events" ..so based on the above requirements I would be considered a non-active Ambassador..and I do think that I am very active and contributing a lot to the Open Source Community and in Particular Fedora..
Let's ask a simple question - do schools and folks in your region who want to know/learn_about/install Fedora *know* that you are the Fedora Ambassador ? And, if they want to get some activity going around Fedora they can contact you and get support/help/guidance/participation ?
From what I read in your response, the answer is a 'Yes'. And, for me
that is an Ambassador.
Now, let's take the other point-of-view. A person who is a Fedora Ambassador has the name listed on the web-page. Someone in the region wants this Ambassador to help out in some Fedora/FOSS related event and yet receives no response. This could be because of a number of reasons, but the bottom-line remains the same. The potential participant in the Fedora Project goes back disappointed.
As the project grows and, we have more Ambassadors, such cases have a tendency to increase. A mail asking the Ambassadors about what they have been doing or, what help they need is a way of figuring how active they are. Just as on IRC, a 'ping' followed by a 'pong' encourages conversation, it does so in real life. We need to see the 'pong' (s) because we then know whom to point new entrants to.
A Fedora Ambassador is an Ambassador for life unless they cause immense harm to the Fedora principles, foundations and our general way of collaboration. No one is planning to throw them off the boat, we would rather give them space to allow them to come back into their role once their 'daily life' (or, whatever keeps them away) is set.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay < foss.mailinglists@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/20 Kevin Higgins crossbytes@gmail.com:
Every Computer System that we put out into the Schools has Fedora
Installed
and I have to do a presentation at every School several times over.. but
I
would not consider these "Events" ..so based on the above requirements I would be considered a non-active Ambassador..and I do think that I am
very
active and contributing a lot to the Open Source Community and in
Particular
Fedora..
Let's ask a simple question - do schools and folks in your region who want to know/learn_about/install Fedora *know* that you are the Fedora Ambassador ? And, if they want to get some activity going around Fedora they can contact you and get support/help/guidance/participation ?
From what I read in your response, the answer is a 'Yes'. And, for me
that is an Ambassador.
Now, let's take the other point-of-view. A person who is a Fedora Ambassador has the name listed on the web-page. Someone in the region wants this Ambassador to help out in some Fedora/FOSS related event and yet receives no response. This could be because of a number of reasons, but the bottom-line remains the same. The potential participant in the Fedora Project goes back disappointed.
As the project grows and, we have more Ambassadors, such cases have a tendency to increase. A mail asking the Ambassadors about what they have been doing or, what help they need is a way of figuring how active they are. Just as on IRC, a 'ping' followed by a 'pong' encourages conversation, it does so in real life. We need to see the 'pong' (s) because we then know whom to point new entrants to.
A Fedora Ambassador is an Ambassador for life unless they cause immense harm to the Fedora principles, foundations and our general way of collaboration. No one is planning to throw them off the boat, we would rather give them space to allow them to come back into their role once their 'daily life' (or, whatever keeps them away) is set.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
We should automate listing of ambassador name in the country directory as soon as he joins as ambassador ( of course after approval), when a person requests to join Fedora Ambassador program he should create the personal wiki through a form then and there so that the ambassador who is approving the request can check that.
Every country should have a central group of ambassadors consists of a ambassador from each region of the country who will be mentoring new ambassador from that region . I think this will diminish the number of inactive ambassadors in a region .
Shambo Bose
On Fri, February 20, 2009 2:52 pm, Shambo Bose wrote:
Every country should have a central group of ambassadors consists of a ambassador from each region of the country who will be mentoring new ambassador from that region . I think this will diminish the number of inactive ambassadors in a region .
I agree. This is also what we are trying to do in the Philippines to help keep local Fedora Ambassadors active.
-- Engels Antonio, RHCE, RHCX Bluepoint Foundation http://bluepoint.com.ph/
i agree with Shambo Bose
cheers!
2009/2/20 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay < foss.mailinglists@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/2/20 Kevin Higgins crossbytes@gmail.com:
Every Computer System that we put out into the Schools has Fedora
Installed
and I have to do a presentation at every School several times over..
but I
would not consider these "Events" ..so based on the above requirements I would be considered a non-active Ambassador..and I do think that I am
very
active and contributing a lot to the Open Source Community and in
Particular
Fedora..
Let's ask a simple question - do schools and folks in your region who want to know/learn_about/install Fedora *know* that you are the Fedora Ambassador ? And, if they want to get some activity going around Fedora they can contact you and get support/help/guidance/participation ?
From what I read in your response, the answer is a 'Yes'. And, for me
that is an Ambassador.
Now, let's take the other point-of-view. A person who is a Fedora Ambassador has the name listed on the web-page. Someone in the region wants this Ambassador to help out in some Fedora/FOSS related event and yet receives no response. This could be because of a number of reasons, but the bottom-line remains the same. The potential participant in the Fedora Project goes back disappointed.
As the project grows and, we have more Ambassadors, such cases have a tendency to increase. A mail asking the Ambassadors about what they have been doing or, what help they need is a way of figuring how active they are. Just as on IRC, a 'ping' followed by a 'pong' encourages conversation, it does so in real life. We need to see the 'pong' (s) because we then know whom to point new entrants to.
A Fedora Ambassador is an Ambassador for life unless they cause immense harm to the Fedora principles, foundations and our general way of collaboration. No one is planning to throw them off the boat, we would rather give them space to allow them to come back into their role once their 'daily life' (or, whatever keeps them away) is set.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
We should automate listing of ambassador name in the country directory as soon as he joins as ambassador ( of course after approval), when a person requests to join Fedora Ambassador program he should create the personal wiki through a form then and there so that the ambassador who is approving the request can check that.
Every country should have a central group of ambassadors consists of a ambassador from each region of the country who will be mentoring new ambassador from that region . I think this will diminish the number of inactive ambassadors in a region .
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
get in touch.
sometimes news ambassadors only join this group because they like the "@ fedoraproject.org" mail and get their names on the fedoraproject website... it should not be that way.
Is not my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
2009/2/20 Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel%0A0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
maybe you should define inactive more clearly
thanks :D
2009/2/20 María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org
get in touch.
sometimes news ambassadors only join this group because they like the "@ fedoraproject.org" mail and get their names on the fedoraproject website... it should not be that way.
Is not my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
2009/2/20 Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel%0A0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/2/19 María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org
t my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
+1
Exactly, what I want to say. This is same about my country also, like María explained.
María, I understood your point of view, and I agree with you in parts.
But I my opinion, a mentoring situation is not the appropriated one. I don't feel comfortable having someone telling me what to do in my collaborative job. For this case, a "by country" group can control this actions. Not to tell an ambassador what he should do, but to watch his work, get reports. Off course, all big actions in some country need more contributors, we need more people in our magazine, updating our portal, etc., but we ONLY need people interested to put their hands to work.
+1 to local groups (by country) to control local Ambassador membership.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 14:04 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
get in touch.
sometimes news ambassadors only join this group because they like the "@fedoraproject.org" mail and get their names on the fedoraproject website... it should not be that way.
Is not my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
2009/2/20 Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" __________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Rodrigo Menezes < rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
María, I understood your point of view, and I agree with you in parts.
But I my opinion, a mentoring situation is not the appropriated one. I don't feel comfortable having someone telling me what to do in my collaborative job. For this case, a "by country" group can control this actions. Not to tell an ambassador what he should do, but to watch his work, get reports. Off course, all big actions in some country need more contributors, we need more people in our magazine, updating our portal, etc., but we ONLY need people interested to put their hands to work.
+1 to local groups (by country) to control local Ambassador membership.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 14:04 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
get in touch.
sometimes news ambassadors only join this group because they like the "@fedoraproject.org" mail and get their names on the fedoraproject website... it should not be that way.
Is not my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
2009/2/20 Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel%0A0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
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+1 to local groups to control local Ambassador membership.
Shambo Bose
+1
" local groups (by country) to control local Ambassador membership."
2009/2/19 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Rodrigo Menezes < rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
María, I understood your point of view, and I agree with you in parts.
But I my opinion, a mentoring situation is not the appropriated one. I don't feel comfortable having someone telling me what to do in my collaborative job. For this case, a "by country" group can control this actions. Not to tell an ambassador what he should do, but to watch his work, get reports. Off course, all big actions in some country need more contributors, we need more people in our magazine, updating our portal, etc., but we ONLY need people interested to put their hands to work.
+1 to local groups (by country) to control local Ambassador membership.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 14:04 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
get in touch.
sometimes news ambassadors only join this group because they like the "@fedoraproject.org" mail and get their names on the fedoraproject website... it should not be that way.
Is not my idea say that "little countries are not important"... is the opossite; I'm in a country that is smaller that a 20 part of brazil; and we do things. My point is that be an ambassador has a purpose... and some people just forget that. so, we just need to get them in touch again and make that be a "fedora ambassador" mean something again for those "lost sheeps" (again... mentoring stuff explain with a better english by -Max-) :D
2009/2/20 Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel%0A0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2
Fedora -- Freedom² and rapid innovation
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" __________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1 to local groups to control local Ambassador membership.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I think we should start considering what Activity means, as Max clearly underline, in one of the best definition we should have:
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
Ok, except for exceptional cases (someone who leaves in a country/province/region without a stable internet connection), those criteria give the definition of Active Ambassador.
I think we should agree with those criteria.
For the other side of the proposal, I want to ask people who are sceptic about this approach to give a try to the proposed solution. I'm sure this proposal is a really a straightforward one. Let me know.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
2009/2/19 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com:
+1 to local groups to control local Ambassador membership.
Shambo Bose
That may work for mature groups. What happen with those countries that only have one ambassador. Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among thenselves?
But sure, if the is the local group can handle it, better leave at local level.
Neville,
In a country with few members, a near country could monitor their actions provide guidelines for they. As a worldwide program, the core doesn't know how local users in each country works, but near country does, or should do.
"Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among themselves?"
Why not create this communication for all group members? Off course USA will talk directly with Fedora Core, but other groups should create this mature local group to be stronger and accomplish bigger goals.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
-----Mensagem original----- De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Neville A. Cross Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 15:21 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
2009/2/19 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com:
+1 to local groups to control local Ambassador membership.
Shambo Bose
That may work for mature groups. What happen with those countries that only have one ambassador. Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among thenselves?
But sure, if the is the local group can handle it, better leave at local level.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote:
Neville,
In a country with few members, a near country could monitor their actions provide guidelines for they. As a worldwide program, the core doesn't know how local users in each country works, but near country does, or should do.
"Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among themselves?"
Why not create this communication for all group members? Off course USA will talk directly with Fedora Core, but other groups should create this mature local group to be stronger and accomplish bigger goals.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
I will love to have a Central American Ambassador Group... but hey! All the other country leaders are flagged in red when you check the country list.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList#Central_America
So, I can not contact them to submit my monthly report.
What I really want to point is that not all country/regions are at the same level of maturity. So the solution should have to accommodate some differences or be flexible.
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 13:54 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote:
I will love to have a Central American Ambassador Group... but hey! All the other country leaders are flagged in red when you check the country list.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList#Central_America
So, I can not contact them to submit my monthly report.
What I really want to point is that not all country/regions are at the same level of maturity. So the solution should have to accommodate some differences or be flexible.
yes, of course...
but I think any decision about active/inactive ambassadors will be pass through local community members...
Luca
Neville, you are correct, but this red page is not what we need as a Group.
In this way Max's Guideline for Inactive Ambassadors cover very well:
An active ambassador is someone who: 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
But, what we need is not only to remove Ambassadors from Country List, we need to remove people from our system. FAS has their e-mails used to assign in the system, let us try to contact these gentlemen and take actions about their membership.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
-----Mensagem original----- De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Neville A. Cross Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 16:54 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Rodrigo Menezes rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br wrote:
Neville,
In a country with few members, a near country could monitor their actions provide guidelines for they. As a worldwide program, the core doesn't know how local users in each country works, but near country does, or should
do.
"Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large
that
among themselves?"
Why not create this communication for all group members? Off course USA
will
talk directly with Fedora Core, but other groups should create this mature local group to be stronger and accomplish bigger goals.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
I will love to have a Central American Ambassador Group... but hey! All the other country leaders are flagged in red when you check the country list.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList#Central_America
So, I can not contact them to submit my monthly report.
What I really want to point is that not all country/regions are at the same level of maturity. So the solution should have to accommodate some differences or be flexible.
Le vendredi 20 février 2009 à 09:02 -0300, Rodrigo Menezes a écrit :
But, what we need is not only to remove Ambassadors from Country List, we need to remove people from our system. FAS has their e-mails used to assign in the system, let us try to contact these gentlemen and take actions about their membership.
+1
Hi, I read the comments.
I think the person who knows best if an ambassador is active is the community leader of each country.
In Argentina I'm coordinating the Ambassadors and we are focused on keep on growing as a community, taking as a guide the fedora Brazil and Venezuela projects.
I think that every leader should have the autonomy to decide the status of an ambassador and the ability to remove him or set him as inactive, in every case supervised by the regional leader.
We should stablish the parameters to decide the status of an ambassador.
There are may ambassadors working on the project who invests their time on local projects. Most of them have no time to work actively on Ambassadors project, but they do a lot of local (and important) work. The problem here is that their work is only known by their local leader, and they are inactive to the Ambassadors's community eyes.
I believe that is our job as community managers to stablish the difference between the active and inactive ambassadors.
Yours.
Matias Maceira Fedora Argentina Community Manager
2009/2/20 Matias Maceira matiasmaceira@gmail.com:
Hi,
I read the comments.
I think the person who knows best if an ambassador is active is the community leader of each country.
In Argentina I'm coordinating the Ambassadors and we are focused on keep on growing as a community, taking as a guide the fedora Brazil and Venezuela projects.
I think that every leader should have the autonomy to decide the status of an ambassador and the ability to remove him or set him as inactive, in every case supervised by the regional leader.
We should stablish the parameters to decide the status of an ambassador.
There are may ambassadors working on the project who invests their time on local projects. Most of them have no time to work actively on Ambassadors project, but they do a lot of local (and important) work. The problem here is that their work is only known by their local leader, and they are inactive to the Ambassadors's community eyes.
I believe that is our job as community managers to stablish the difference between the active and inactive ambassadors.
Yours.
Matias Maceira Fedora Argentina Community Manager
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1 Matias Maceira
I 100% agree! I think our local coordinator must be responsible for local Ambassador's work. As Gerard said, every region has a different level of maturity, I'm absolutely identified with this idea.
So, +1
Salud, Amigos!
Guillermo Garcia (AKA Willy Garcia) Analista de Sistemas (Univ. del Salvador)
Yahoo! Cocina Recetas prácticas y comida saludable http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
It has been said that we should focus on active ambassadors.
What about a public page where people who is willing to been bombarded by mail is displayed? That list is voluntary and you have to sing up for it. As you signed up for many emails, one of those email will be a confirmation that you are up to keep this pressure. If you fail to reply this, you are automatically take down of this list. You can sign up again at any time. No punishment for taking a break.
This does not has anything to do with the performance or commitment of one ambassador. It is just another option among the many task that an ambassador may undertake.
It will be asked to those ambassadors that are alone in one country to sing up in this list. But no one should be forced to do it.
This list has to be prominent within the wiki. This should became the way to find people to support events. This people task is to answer request or point people in the right direction. This will solve the problem of unresponsive ambassadors.
This does not solve the problem of "dead" ambassadors. Dead as people that drooped absolutely without the courtesy of given proper notice. I still think that some sort of housekeeping is needed.
I still would like that someone with artistic skills propose a template, so those who wanted to brag about recent accomplishments may do so.
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
Neville,
In a country with few members, a near country could monitor their actions provide guidelines for they. As a worldwide program, the core doesn't know how local users in each country works, but near country does, or should do.
We have a situation like that here in Chile, but we are participating in many events, and this year we're part of the organization of the biggest Linux related event in Chile, Encuentro Linux, in this event there will be more than 5 Universities participating and also many communities, including the Debian's and Ubuntu's.
In 2008 event we represented Fedora, by giving a speech about Fedora, we made T-Shirts and gave DVD's to the public. We haven't participated here much, in part because of the work we're doing for the upcoming event.
So I also think each country should try to make a self cleaning, as some Ambassadors don't speek English well enough to actively participate in this list and other projects, but are a great contribution to their own country.
"Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among themselves?"
Why not create this communication for all group members? Off course USA will talk directly with Fedora Core, but other groups should create this mature local group to be stronger and accomplish bigger goals.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
-----Mensagem original----- De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Neville A. Cross Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 15:21 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
2009/2/19 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com:
+1 to local groups to control local Ambassador membership.
Shambo Bose
That may work for mature groups. What happen with those countries that only have one ambassador. Or when the group members have better communication to fedora at large that among thenselves?
But sure, if the is the local group can handle it, better leave at local level.
This is true, not all Ambassadors works with the list, i work with the people in my city with my own resources providing DVDs and help!!! maybe i am not a very active in the list, but there are to many who works!!!
I think we have to ask to the Ambassadors if they want been part of this project or make a list to re-subscribe on the FAS
regards!!!
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn’t mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I’m contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I’m working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
I wanted to be an active member of fedora and able to participate in events such as an installer or help you see the configuration of servers and users .... is little English but I'm looking for it
2009/2/19 Charly Manjarrez charlymanja@yahoo.com.mx
This is true, not all Ambassadors works with the list, i work with the people in my city with my own resources providing DVDs and help!!! maybe i am not a very active in the list, but there are to many who works!!!
I think we have to ask to the Ambassadors if they want been part of this project or make a list to re-subscribe on the FAS
regards!!!
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
María,
How can you identify a Ambassador who really works for the Project?
Contribute as an Ambassador doesn't mean that you need to work in a upstream Project. If I produce lectures in my city (a small city in South Brazil), I'm contributing, and this work will never be noticed by you. How can you define if I'm working or not?
How can you assign task for some Ambassador who use all of his free time to distribute DVDs, produce lectures? You cannot.
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de María Leandro Enviada em: quinta-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2009 13:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
We also know that we have some ambassadors that don't contribute with any project. What do we do with them?
I think we should contact them an assign some task... just to incorporate them to the team
2009/2/20 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
+1 WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
But what do we do with inactive Ambassadors, who are inactive from a long time? Are they Ambassadors for ever??!!
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+
Max Spevack wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or
new users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
when you update the list of ambassador I think I miss in the list ...
2009/2/19 Jason Benedict Low jbenedictlow@gmail.com
Max Spevack wrote:
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Best Regards, Jason Singapore Fedora Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jason_Benedict_Low VoIP = sip:jasonbenedict@fedoraproject.orgsip%3Ajasonbenedict@fedoraproject.org ------ When i work nobody care. When i rest everybody stare. ------
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
2009/2/20 Gaurav Prabhu g5_fosslover@yahoo.in
--- On *Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com* wrote:
From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_1/*http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I agree with not removing the ambassadors, maybe simply marking them as inactive?
I feel that it would be akin to developing software and abandoning it later... Then someone comes along and removes your name from the credits simply because you're not actively developing it anymore.
What would the inactive ambassadors have to do in order to regain their active status again? Re-sign the CLA? Simply say "I'm here now"?
-Nushio
Gaurav,
We are talking about people within one or more years of inactivity. Yes, they exist, a lot!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Gaurav Prabhu Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 15:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
1) Has joined the group in FAS. 2) Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list. 3) Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
* Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle. * Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month. * Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions. * Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
________________________________________ Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.
__________________________________________________ Fa�a liga��es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Rodrigo Menezes < rodrigomenezes12@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Gaurav,
We are talking about people within one or more years of inactivity. Yes, they exist, a lot!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Gaurav Prabhu Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 15:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.
Faça liga�ões para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Marking as Inactive is a great idea. And they can re-sign CLA as told by Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno to take active participation in the project once again.
regards ,
Shambo Bose
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
I have given lecturer in Introduction in IT using Fedora for my students. The lecturing delivered using project based learning besides instructional. In 20th December 2008, I was introducing Fedora 10 and workshop to a small society in Surabaya, freely. But the participants for Fedora workshop aren't really much, just about 15 person. Maybe because the time was too tight and I didn't do a marketing very well. I also copy Fedora-10 for 1000 pieces with my own money for giving to others freely. A half of them were supported by local vendors then, so they give it as a souvenir in the computer exhibition.
I am Fedora Ambassador in Indonesia since last year, but I still have no chance to meet my colleague from Indonesia. There are six fedora Ambassador from Indonesia including me (it is still small number for the country with the population more than 237 million peoples). The one I have contacted and chatted was Indrayana from Jakarta. Perhaps one day I can meet my other colleagues.
Right now, I am in Kansas City until June 2008 since I have sent by my university to learn about entrepreneurship from Kauffman Foundation. So maybe I can not active for a while, but still happy if I can meet other Fedora Ambassador in USA. Tomorrow, I will go to Stanford for a week and the next following week, I will be in Boston and after that I will come back to Kansas City. Perhaps, I can learn some idea about Fedora from colleagues in USA.
By the way, if there are some Fedora Ambassador visit to Surabaya - Indonesia, please contact me. I am really welcome. Or maybe we can launch Fedora in Bali, Indonesia? It will be fun :)
Thank you.
Johan Hasan Fedora Ambassador, Surabaya Indonesia. email: johanhsn@gmail.com yahoo messenger: johanhsn2000
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
Gaurav,
We are talking about people within one or more years of inactivity. Yes, they exist, a lot!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Gaurav Prabhu Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 15:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/ questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.
Fa�a liga��es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/2/20 Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
We all exist as Fedora Ambassadors, by the the way this my first post on this mailing list as a U.K. Ambassador from Scotland. We all work behind the scenes promoting Fedora and Linux in general within our country and locality and just because we do not shout about it does not mean we are doing nothing. At the moment within the U.K. we are petitioning our government to adopt free and open software within education : http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschool/sign
Paul did say that we are not schoolboys and we should not be treated as such so why do we have the high handedness within the Fedora Organisation.
Gordon Dunlop
Johan Hasan Fedora Ambassador, Surabaya Indonesia. email: johanhsn@gmail.com yahoo messenger: johanhsn2000
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
Gaurav,
We are talking about people within one or more years of inactivity. Yes, they exist, a lot!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Gaurav Prabhu Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 15:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.
Fa�a liga��es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I agree with that. Just because we are not "reporting" on what were doing, doesnt mean we are not here. I dont want this taken the wrong way, but on top of work and school, and trying to interact with my parents and friends, i have close to 0 free time. So it most likely wont be spent updating a wiki page or trying to convience someone that im promoting Fedora.
2009/2/20 gordon dunlop astrozubenel@googlemail.com
2009/2/20 Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
We all exist as Fedora Ambassadors, by the the way this my first post on this mailing list as a U.K. Ambassador from Scotland. We all work behind the scenes promoting Fedora and Linux in general within our country and locality and just because we do not shout about it does not mean we are doing nothing. At the moment within the U.K. we are petitioning our government to adopt free and open software within education : http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschool/sign
Paul did say that we are not schoolboys and we should not be treated as such so why do we have the high handedness within the Fedora Organisation.
Gordon Dunlop
Johan Hasan Fedora Ambassador, Surabaya Indonesia. email: johanhsn@gmail.com yahoo messenger: johanhsn2000
Rodrigo Menezes wrote:
Gaurav,
We are talking about people within one or more years of inactivity. Yes, they exist, a lot!!!
Cheers,
Rodrigo Menezes
De: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto: fedora-ambassadors-list-bounces@redhat.com] Em nome de Gaurav Prabhu Enviada em: sexta-feira, 20 de fevereiro de 2009 15:26 Para: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Assunto: Re: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution
--- On Thu, 19/2/09, Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com wrote: From: Max Spevack mspevack@redhat.com Subject: [Ambassadors] inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Thursday, 19 February, 2009, 11:34 AM The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant. So If I were to be removed, I would feel rejected & would develop a negative attitude towards Fedora community. Even though I wish to return, I won't return for sure. So I feel we should not be too strict. After all everybody loves Freedom.
Regards, Gaurav Prabhu
Connect with friends all over the world.. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.
Fa�a liga��es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/2/21 gordon dunlop astrozubenel@googlemail.com
2009/2/20 Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com
At the moment within the U.K. we are petitioning our government to adopt free and open software within education: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools/
Sorry I gave you all a dead link.
Gordon Dunlop
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hi all,
I consider myself one of those ambassadors who are quite active in their community, but fail to "report back" on wiki's and blogs, or even reply to mailing lists.
Not that I wouldn't want to write reports or chat with fellows from a community I take pride to being member of, but I tend to spend my spare time (if any) working on getting people to love Fedora. I honestly barely have the time to read my emails, much less to reply to all of them...
However, thus far, I have been able to reach thousands of university students, did a seminar on "How to use Linux (Fedora) as a reliable OS", and constantly am spreading the word around. Heck, even my IT manager asked me a couple of days ago to give him both the 32 & 64 bit Fedora DVD's: our proxy servers will soon get what's best out there to drive them: Fedora 10! And maybe our workstations will be finally fueled with the most productive OS one can lay hands on.
I side by inode0 with: "...I suggest you lead by example and just do it. You don't need a rule."
And I think Roy's got a point: "...At the end of the day, I think its now time for someone to come forth and make a decision for the rest of the ambassadors to adhere."
Until the next reply of this interesting (and long) thread, have a nice weekend, all of you!
Original message From:PaulMarc Bougharios< paulmarc@ieee.org >Date: 22 Feb 09 03:56:19Subject:Re: [Ambassadors] Re: inactive ambassadors, a proposed solutionTo: fedoraambassadorslist@redhat.comHi all,I consider myself one of those ambassadors who are quite active in their community, but fail to "report back" on wiki's and blogs, or even reply to mailing lists.Not that I wouldn't want to write reports or chat with fellows from a community I take pride to being member of, but I tend to spend my spare time (if any) working on getting people to love Fedora. I honestly barely have the time to read my emails, much less to reply to all of them...However, thus far, I have been able to reach thousands of university students, did a seminar on "How to use Linux (Fedora) as a reliable OS", and constantly am spreading the word around. Heck, even my IT manager asked me a couple of days ago to give him both the 32 & 64 bit Fedora DVD's: our proxy servers will soon get what's best out ther e to drive them: Fedora 10!And maybe our workstations will be finally fueled with the most productive OS one can lay hands on. I side by inode0 with:"...I suggest you lead by example and just do it. You don't need a rule."And I think Roy's got a point:"...At the end of the day, I think its now time for someone to come forth and make a decision for the rest of the ambassadors to adhere."Until the next reply of this interesting (and long) thread, have a nice weekend, all of you! Take care,PaulMarc Bougharios, Engrhttp://www.paulmarc.org/ May God Be With You
Hi all,
Just to let you all know I'm still alive and active, although not attending meetings and reporting back due to being jobless and looking for jobs nowadays. (thanks to being retrenched).
Sometimes nowadays, I try to contribute what I can, by teaching students at Vocational Institutes and Colleges on how to use Fedora and recommending them to my friends and family and students. From my perspective, inactivity of Fedora Ambassadors should not be considered on whether Fedora Ambassadors report back or not, all of us has a different method of how we contribute to The Fedora Project.
As for the concept of housekeeping. +1
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com wrote:
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
Hi Johan,
I could not be more proud to be your fellow Fedora ambassador and hope while you are visiting here I might get the chance to meet you in person one day.
Your story and the stories of others in this thread remind me of what bonds us together and that we should take the greatest care to not break those bonds over something trivial.
We participate spreading the message of Fedora in small and large ways, in small and large communities, and with small and large effects. Losing one Johan or one Gordon or one Emilio by continuing down this path is a price that is too high to pay. We need to trust each other as ambassadors to do what is right, promote Fedora as best we can, in the ways we can, at the times we can.
I have given lecturer in Introduction in IT using Fedora for my students. The lecturing delivered using project based learning besides instructional. In 20th December 2008, I was introducing Fedora 10 and workshop to a small society in Surabaya, freely. But the participants for Fedora workshop aren't really much, just about 15 person. Maybe because the time was too tight and I didn't do a marketing very well. I also copy Fedora-10 for 1000 pieces with my own money for giving to others freely. A half of them were supported by local vendors then, so they give it as a souvenir in the computer exhibition.
I am Fedora Ambassador in Indonesia since last year, but I still have no chance to meet my colleague from Indonesia. There are six fedora Ambassador from Indonesia including me (it is still small number for the country with the population more than 237 million peoples). The one I have contacted and chatted was Indrayana from Jakarta. Perhaps one day I can meet my other colleagues.
Right now, I am in Kansas City until June 2008 since I have sent by my university to learn about entrepreneurship from Kauffman Foundation. So maybe I can not active for a while, but still happy if I can meet other Fedora Ambassador in USA. Tomorrow, I will go to Stanford for a week and the next following week, I will be in Boston and after that I will come back to Kansas City. Perhaps, I can learn some idea about Fedora from colleagues in USA.
Please stop by #fedora-ambassadors on freenode and chat with us any time. And you are more than welcome to participate in our FAmNA meetings (the next one will be in early March). We might learn more from you than you will from us, we'd love to talk with you.
By the way, if there are some Fedora Ambassador visit to Surabaya - Indonesia, please contact me. I am really welcome. Or maybe we can launch Fedora in Bali, Indonesia? It will be fun :)
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
Let's take a collective deep breath.
John
Hello Everyone,
Greetings. :)
I appreciate reading everyone's post. I concur with John's proposal. :)
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
Sounds like a plan to me.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
True.
Let's take a collective deep breath.
+1
Please have a good day and an enjoyable weekend! :~)
Thank You Sincerely =-=-=-=-= - David - =-=-=-=-=
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:00:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Re: inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution From: inode0@gmail.com To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com wrote:
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
Hi Johan,
I could not be more proud to be your fellow Fedora ambassador and hope while you are visiting here I might get the chance to meet you in person one day.
Your story and the stories of others in this thread remind me of what bonds us together and that we should take the greatest care to not break those bonds over something trivial.
We participate spreading the message of Fedora in small and large ways, in small and large communities, and with small and large effects. Losing one Johan or one Gordon or one Emilio by continuing down this path is a price that is too high to pay. We need to trust each other as ambassadors to do what is right, promote Fedora as best we can, in the ways we can, at the times we can.
I have given lecturer in Introduction in IT using Fedora for my students. The lecturing delivered using project based learning besides instructional. In 20th December 2008, I was introducing Fedora 10 and workshop to a small society in Surabaya, freely. But the participants for Fedora workshop aren't really much, just about 15 person. Maybe because the time was too tight and I didn't do a marketing very well. I also copy Fedora-10 for 1000 pieces with my own money for giving to others freely. A half of them were supported by local vendors then, so they give it as a souvenir in the computer exhibition.
I am Fedora Ambassador in Indonesia since last year, but I still have no chance to meet my colleague from Indonesia. There are six fedora Ambassador from Indonesia including me (it is still small number for the country with the population more than 237 million peoples). The one I have contacted and chatted was Indrayana from Jakarta. Perhaps one day I can meet my other colleagues.
Right now, I am in Kansas City until June 2008 since I have sent by my university to learn about entrepreneurship from Kauffman Foundation. So maybe I can not active for a while, but still happy if I can meet other Fedora Ambassador in USA. Tomorrow, I will go to Stanford for a week and the next following week, I will be in Boston and after that I will come back to Kansas City. Perhaps, I can learn some idea about Fedora from colleagues in USA.
Please stop by #fedora-ambassadors on freenode and chat with us any time. And you are more than welcome to participate in our FAmNA meetings (the next one will be in early March). We might learn more from you than you will from us, we'd love to talk with you.
By the way, if there are some Fedora Ambassador visit to Surabaya - Indonesia, please contact me. I am really welcome. Or maybe we can launch Fedora in Bali, Indonesia? It will be fun :)
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
Let's take a collective deep breath.
John
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2009/2/21 David Ramsey diamond_ramsey@hotmail.com
Hello Everyone,
Greetings. :)
I appreciate reading everyone's post. I concur with John's proposal. :)
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
Sounds like a plan to me.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
True.
Let's take a collective deep breath.
+1
Please have a good day and an enjoyable weekend! :~)
Thank You Sincerely =-=-=-=-=
- David -
=-=-=-=-=
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:00:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Re: inactive ambassadors, a proposed solution From: inode0@gmail.com To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Johan Hasan johanhsn@gmail.com wrote:
Just want to say hi and let you know, that I am still exist :)
Hi Johan,
I could not be more proud to be your fellow Fedora ambassador and hope while you are visiting here I might get the chance to meet you in person one day.
Your story and the stories of others in this thread remind me of what bonds us together and that we should take the greatest care to not break those bonds over something trivial.
We participate spreading the message of Fedora in small and large ways, in small and large communities, and with small and large effects. Losing one Johan or one Gordon or one Emilio by continuing down this path is a price that is too high to pay. We need to trust each other as ambassadors to do what is right, promote Fedora as best we can, in the ways we can, at the times we can.
I have given lecturer in Introduction in IT using Fedora for my
students.
The lecturing delivered using project based learning besides
instructional.
In 20th December 2008, I was introducing Fedora 10 and workshop to a
small
society in Surabaya, freely. But the participants for Fedora workshop
aren't
really much, just about 15 person. Maybe because the time was too tight
and
I didn't do a marketing very well. I also copy Fedora-10 for 1000
pieces
with my own money for giving to others freely. A half of them were
supported
by local vendors then, so they give it as a souvenir in the computer exhibition.
I am Fedora Ambassador in Indonesia since last year, but I still have
no
chance to meet my colleague from Indonesia. There are six fedora
Ambassador
from Indonesia including me (it is still small number for the country
with
the population more than 237 million peoples). The one I have contacted
and
chatted was Indrayana from Jakarta. Perhaps one day I can meet my other colleagues.
Right now, I am in Kansas City until June 2008 since I have sent by my university to learn about entrepreneurship from Kauffman Foundation. So maybe I can not active for a while, but still happy if I can meet other Fedora Ambassador in USA. Tomorrow, I will go to Stanford for a week
and the
next following week, I will be in Boston and after that I will come
back to
Kansas City. Perhaps, I can learn some idea about Fedora from
colleagues in
USA.
Please stop by #fedora-ambassadors on freenode and chat with us any time. And you are more than welcome to participate in our FAmNA meetings (the next one will be in early March). We might learn more from you than you will from us, we'd love to talk with you.
By the way, if there are some Fedora Ambassador visit to Surabaya - Indonesia, please contact me. I am really welcome. Or maybe we can launch Fedora in Bali, Indonesia? It will be fun :)
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
Let's take a collective deep breath.
John
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1 But I think some kind of reporting should be done. I am telling this though I don't get enough time to update wiki , attend meetings myself but from the point of view of Fedora we should consider the scenario too. May be we are working silently and are active but how come other ambassadors will know that ? We should at least report our activities once a week, if not possible every fortnight in the wiki or to this mailing list or to other ambassador in our region. I am going to follow this from now on rather I should.
Regards ,
Shambo Bose
2009/2/21 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
+1 But I think some kind of reporting should be done. I am telling this though I don't get enough time to update wiki , attend meetings myself but from the point of view of Fedora we should consider the scenario too. May be we are working silently and are active but how come other ambassadors will know that ? We should at least report our activities once a week, if not possible every fortnight in the wiki or to this mailing list or to other ambassador in our region. I am going to follow this from now on rather I should.
Regards ,
Shambo Bose
+1. Let others know, what you are doing. I think, everyone can give 10 minutes to write a report at least once in a month. And I don't think, it's impossible to give 10 minutes, once in a month, no matter, what you are, where you from or what you are doing.
Now if you can't do this, surely, you are not active or you just don't care! And if you can't give 10 minutes for the project (once in a month), why did you apply for Ambassadors?
2009/2/21 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd:
Now if you can't do this, surely, you are not active or you just don't care! And if you can't give 10 minutes for the project (once in a month), why did you apply for Ambassadors?
I believe in free software, I was inspired by someone I admire, I believe in the Fedora Project's core values. Freedom. Friends. Features. First. I give way more than 10 minutes each day to the Fedora Project. Writing monthly reports was most definitely not on my list of reasons.
John
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, inode0 inode0@gmail.com wrote:
I believe in free software, I was inspired by someone I admire, I believe in the Fedora Project's core values. Freedom. Friends. Features. First. I give way more than 10 minutes each day to the Fedora Project. Writing monthly reports was most definitely not on my list of reasons.
John
What I meant, if you do anything for Fedora (no matter, its talking with people or helping in Forum), then you can spend another 10 minutes to write a report, at least in a month.
2009/2/21 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, inode0 inode0@gmail.com wrote:
I believe in free software, I was inspired by someone I admire, I believe in the Fedora Project's core values. Freedom. Friends. Features. First. I give way more than 10 minutes each day to the Fedora Project. Writing monthly reports was most definitely not on my list of reasons.
What I meant, if you do anything for Fedora (no matter, its talking with people or helping in Forum), then you can spend another 10 minutes to write a report, at least in a month.
Yes, I could choose to write a report once a month. But I don't. I make a different choice as do a lot of people about how we want to spend our time contributing. I suggest you lead by example and just do it. You don't need a rule.
Reports are wonderful. Blogs are wonderful. Giving keynote addresses at conferences are wonderful. These things and hundreds more are wonderful ways an ambassador can contribute. None of them are required. We will all be happier if we can choose to contribute in ways we enjoy and if we are not required to do things we don't enjoy.
John
On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 00:55 -0600, inode0 wrote:
2009/2/21 Ashiqur Rahman Angel angel@linux.org.bd:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, inode0 inode0@gmail.com wrote:
I believe in free software, I was inspired by someone I admire, I believe in the Fedora Project's core values. Freedom. Friends. Features. First. I give way more than 10 minutes each day to the Fedora Project. Writing monthly reports was most definitely not on my list of reasons.
What I meant, if you do anything for Fedora (no matter, its talking with people or helping in Forum), then you can spend another 10 minutes to write a report, at least in a month.
Yes, I could choose to write a report once a month. But I don't. I make a different choice as do a lot of people about how we want to spend our time contributing. I suggest you lead by example and just do it. You don't need a rule.
Reports are wonderful. Blogs are wonderful. Giving keynote addresses at conferences are wonderful. These things and hundreds more are wonderful ways an ambassador can contribute. None of them are required. We will all be happier if we can choose to contribute in ways we enjoy and if we are not required to do things we don't enjoy.
John
I guess all the points that have been highlighted are valid in their own ways. We all have different ways of fulfilling our duties as Fedora Ambassadors. Some feel 10mins a month for report typing is justifiable while others feel the 10mins a month could be better used. At the end of the day, I think its now time for someone to come forth and make a decision for the rest of the ambassadors to adhere. No silver bullet here and every suggestion has its merits and accordingly, its own downside.
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, inode0 wrote:
I propose we do the following now.
(1) Stop further discussion of putting labels of active and inactive on ambassadors. We are all Fedora ambassadors, let's leave it at that.
(2) Work with FAmSCo to solve the actual problem that began this discussion and create an effective way for our community to contact ambassadors and for the non-Fedora community to contact us. This can be done without creating any new bureaucracy that burdens Fedora ambassadors. Several reasonable suggestions that accomplish this have already been offered for consideration.
There are many many different ways to be a Fedora Ambassador. It is not for me to tell anyone "you are" or "you are not". This is the first time I ever even bothered to respond to this thread, and now I regret writing the first email.
=============
The ACTUAL PROBLEM that we need to solve is making sure that we have a list of Ambassadors in different countries who choose to commit that THEIR CONTRIBUTION to Fedora Ambassadors is being a point of contact on email or irc for users and potential contributors in their country who might have questions.
Solving THAT PROBLEM is why I think we need to do a better job of automating and advertising a list of Ambassadors per country.
Some people are great at organizing events. Some people are great at distributing CDs. Some people are great at answering newbie questions.
Not everybody wants to do all of those things. Everyone needs to first recognize that it is OK to specialize, and also needs to recognize that no one is "more" or "less" of an Ambassador, only different.
=============
I have nothing left to add to this thread. I feel like I have done a poor job of explaining myself, and that everything I say just makes it worse, so I'm going to go back to worrying about things like budget and FUDCon, where the world makes sense :)
--Max
2009/2/20 Gaurav Prabhu g5_fosslover@yahoo.in:
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to remove them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list. Take the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in the Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I haven't done anything significant.
If you'd love to meet some of the other Indian Ambassadors or, talk out loud about what you can do as small steps towards meeting your Ambassador role, do hop over to #fedora-india. There are a lot of folks on the channel who would be more than happy to learn from your experience and share their knowledge.
Why do we need to locate inactive ambassadors, and remove them? Why not keep em? It might be better to have people helping esporadically, that no help at all. Before someone asks, I am sporadic. 2009/2/23 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay foss.mailinglists@gmail.com
2009/2/20 Gaurav Prabhu g5_fosslover@yahoo.in:
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing them is not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we to
remove
them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some people are under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing list.
Take
the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my foor in
the
Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I
haven't
done anything significant.
If you'd love to meet some of the other Indian Ambassadors or, talk out loud about what you can do as small steps towards meeting your Ambassador role, do hop over to #fedora-india. There are a lot of folks on the channel who would be more than happy to learn from your experience and share their knowledge.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
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There are two valid points, for one, the Ambassadorship guidelines are very open, more or less, do what you want. On the other hand, how useful is it to have someone listed as an ambassador for an area when they are MIA? And what kind of impression does it make if someone is trying to work with Fedora, but their Ambassador is non-responsive? Perhaps the Regional Ambassador setup that's been going on in NA is a step people can agree on? Or maybe having one Ambassador per area that is known by the community as being active to help maintain a list of other active ambassadors in their area?
-Scott
On Feb 24, 2009, at 11:03 AM, John Mackay mackay3@gmail.com wrote:
Why do we need to locate inactive ambassadors, and remove them? Why not keep em? It might be better to have people helping esporadically, that no help at all. Before someone asks, I am sporadic. 2009/2/23 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay foss.mailinglists@gmail.com 2009/2/20 Gaurav Prabhu g5_fosslover@yahoo.in:
Though I agree with you on some points, but still I feel removing
them is
not the way out. If they do not wish to contribute then it's their wish. Who are we
to remove
them from the list? Also people have their own set of hurdles, diffculties. Some
people are
under a bad patch of their life. Hence we cannot remove theme even if they do not post on mailing
list. Take
the example of myself, I just joined an month ago, still haven't done anything since I do not have skills. I am still finding my
foor in the
Fedora community. Besides making some posts on the mailing list, I
haven't
done anything significant.
If you'd love to meet some of the other Indian Ambassadors or, talk out loud about what you can do as small steps towards meeting your Ambassador role, do hop over to #fedora-india. There are a lot of folks on the channel who would be more than happy to learn from your experience and share their knowledge.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Max, as for me: i have an account in FAS, i have a personal page in Fedora-Wiki, but i write to the fedora-list very seldom, but i always reading it.
Am i inactive?
I prefer to work with people to sitting in the mailing list and discussing questions.
But, of course i agree with you.
19.02.2009, в 14:34, Max Spevack написал(а):
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors
or new users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
+1 to that... Great idea max... But shouldn't there be some process or procedures that need to be put in place?
Jose M Manimala 2009/2/22 Foxhaund foxhaund@gmail.com
Max, as for me: i have an account in FAS, i have a personal page in Fedora-Wiki, but i write to the fedora-list very seldom, but i always reading it.
Am i inactive?
I prefer to work with people to sitting in the mailing list and discussing questions.
But, of course i agree with you.
19.02.2009, в 14:34, Max Spevack написал(а):
The purpose of this email is to try to lay out a roadmap for solving, once
and for all, the question of inactive Fedora Ambassadors.
GOALS OF IDENTIFYING INACTIVE AMBASSADORS:
(1) Housekeeping. All projects need to have their membership rosters pruned from time to time. In Ambassadors, this is particularly important because non-Fedora people might get in touch with Ambassadors, and if they don't receive a response, it looks like Fedora is ignorning them. Other sub-projects for which identifying inactive ambassadors are crucial is packaging. If someone drops off the face of the earth, their packages need to be given to a new owner.
Pages that need to a "refresh" policy:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList <-- I argue that CountryList is the wrong name for this page, and it should be called Directory.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Count <-- why do we even need this page? Doesn't the CountryList page serve the same purpose?
How often are these pages currently updated? Is the process manual or automated, or a mixture of both?
(2) Give a more prominent location to the "list of ambassadors per country". That page should be the most visited page in all of Fedora Ambassadors. People who are trying to find out about Fedora should be visiting it, and Ambassadors who are looking for other Fedora folks near them should be visiting it.
We should have something on fedoraproject.org that says "are you interested in Fedora? Find a Fedora Ambassador near you to give you some information" and you type in your location, and it spits back a list of Ambassadors near you.
(3) In order for any of (2) to be successful, we need to make sure that the people who are listed as Ambassadors are actually paying attention to the Ambassadors part of Fedora. If someone is not, it doesn't mean that they are a bad person -- it just means that they don't want to have to deal with organizing events or asking questions from newbies to the project.
I wouldn't be offended if someone removed me from the Fedora Infrastructure group in FAS, because *I DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH FEDORA INFRASTRUCTURE*. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or not a Fedora contributor, it just means that I don't participate in that part of Fedora.
HOW DO WE IDENTIFY ACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
We come up with a policy that is simple, and fair.
An active ambassador is someone who:
- Has joined the group in FAS.
- Reads and/or posts on fedora-ambassadors-list.
- Has a useful, up-to-date personal page on the Fedora wiki.
And does one or more of:
- Attends or organizes an event once in a release cycle.
- Maintains a blog on Planet Fedora, with about one post per month.
- Participates on fedora-list or fedoraforum.org to help people w/
questions.
- Indicates their willingness to mentor and guide new contributors or new
users.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH INACTIVE AMBASSADORS?
If someone is inactive, we *DO NOT* kick them out of the ambassadors group in FAS, and we *DO NOT* remove them from fedora-ambassadors list.
But we should remove them from the "directory of Ambassadors sorted by country", which I argue again needs to be much more visible and useful, so that those inactive Ambassadors aren't being asked to do public-facing things.
When someone re-surfaces or has more time for Ambassadors, we put them back on the directory.
==================
Flame me.
--Max
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
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ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org