[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1133188] Select English as the default language for India geolocation
by Red Hat Bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133188
--- Comment #35 from Ani Peter <apeter(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to Siddhesh Poyarekar from comment #34)
> (In reply to Ani Peter from comment #30)
> > Also a kind request is that when an existing feature/setting (esp sensitive
> > like this) receives a feedback or a bug get reported like this, ideally it
> > should be taken up for discussion with wider crowd, language communities and
> > decided upon concensus. It should not be that a bug is reported and change
> > is done. That wrong approach is something that has made all feel bad.
>
> Why is filing a bug report the 'wrong' approach? You cannot expect every
> user to try and figure out the mailing list for the localization team and
> open a conversation with them for everything that they think might be wrong.
You have taken me wrong completely here and jumped the gun. I never meant
filing a bug report is wrong and you have to figure out localization team
mailing list to open a conversation with them.
My point was when a bug is filed, deriving a conclusion and changing the
setting without any discussion with wider crowd and its consenses (comment #2,
#3 & #4) is wrong.
Thanks
Ani
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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1133188] Select English as the default language for India geolocation
by Red Hat Bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133188
--- Comment #34 from Siddhesh Poyarekar <spoyarek(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to Ani Peter from comment #30)
> Also a kind request is that when an existing feature/setting (esp sensitive
> like this) receives a feedback or a bug get reported like this, ideally it
> should be taken up for discussion with wider crowd, language communities and
> decided upon concensus. It should not be that a bug is reported and change
> is done. That wrong approach is something that has made all feel bad.
Why is filing a bug report the 'wrong' approach? You cannot expect every user
to try and figure out the mailing list for the localization team and open a
conversation with them for everything that they think might be wrong.
(In reply to Ankit Patel from comment #32)
> You might want to analyze the *facts* (not assumptions) posted/discussed in
> this bug and make your decision.
Again, speaking a certain language and using it on a computer on a regular
basis are two completely different things. See slide 10 on [1] for example,
which says only 12% of urban users use computing devices in any language other
than English.
I don't ask to go by that study because it is not necessarily representative of
the entire population - it has the known limitation of sampling only urban
computer users and their sample size of 65000 is not large enough to be
representative IMO. Look for facts like those when you're deciding on default
selections and not just a count of how many users speak a certain language
natively.
If you conclude that there are in fact no such studies that can be relied upon
then state that explicitly and then make a decision based on a fallback such as
overall language demographics.
[1]
http://www.slideshare.net/JuxtConsult/toplines-of-india-bytes-a-computer-...
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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1133188] Select English as the default language for India geolocation
by Red Hat Bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133188
Ani Peter <apeter(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |apeter(a)redhat.com
--- Comment #30 from Ani Peter <apeter(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to Pravin Satpute from comment #26)
> Created attachment 930858 [details]
> Image of first screen.
>
> Mike you have done great job. I am really happy with the kind of result i am
> getting, almost all Indian language listed.
>
> There is no harm in having Hindi selected as first choice. It is just a
> matter of click.
>
> It shows in Fedora leadership in language computing. Fedora is only
> operating system to support 22 official Indian languages.
Exactly. I completely agree to this point and this was something I wanted to
mention from the moment I saw this bug. Here we are letting the user know :-
1. the list of languages available in Fedora and the language a user can choose
to continue the installation.
2. Being India the geolocation, there is no harm in Hindi being selected as the
first choice, being Hindi the official/national language. This is not doing any
harm to the user or the system until you click the "Continue" button.
3. This kind of an approach/setting will give the users the impression the
importance Fedora gives to native languages and thats a plus point for Fedora
compared to other distros.
Its just a matter of moving cursor to the preferred language, English or any
other.
Also a kind request is that when an existing feature/setting (esp sensitive
like this) receives a feedback or a bug get reported like this, ideally it
should be taken up for discussion with wider crowd, language communities and
decided upon concensus. It should not be that a bug is reported and change is
done. That wrong approach is something that has made all feel bad.
Personally, I dont feel there is a need to change this beautiful language
feature which is existing from F19. Lets be as it is.
Thanks
Ani
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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1133188] Select English as the default language for India geolocation
by Red Hat Bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133188
Ankit Patel <ankit(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flags| |needinfo?(mfabian(a)redhat.co
| |m)
--- Comment #29 from Ankit Patel <ankit(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to Mike FABIAN from comment #25)
> According to
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India
>
> Hindi has 258-422 million speakers which is more than any
> other of the Indian langauges.
>
> I did this for all languages supported by Fedora, looking at
> which language has the most speakers for a given territory.
That's good.
>
> But I can of course change that if users tell me they want
> something different.
Ok. There's a glitch here, I will try to explain in my comments further.
[...]
>
> But for India, English seems to be not an unreasonable choice because
> it is commonly used everywhere in India.
How do you know that English is not an unreasonable choice for India?
Rather how do you know that English is a reasonable choice for India?
OR how do you know that English is commonly used everywhere in India?
> Therefore, I think Siddhesh’s
> argument in comment#0 is understandable. Choosing English as the default
> is maybe more “neutral” for India than any of the Indian languages.
maybe not!
We can't really make decisions based on a single user's (or group of users')
reports, rather we should really research and analyze the data.
Let's not assume anything when there's a market data, which I could see that
you have done earlier.
[...]
Thanks,
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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1133188] Select English as the default language for India geolocation
by Red Hat Bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133188
--- Comment #27 from Rajesh Ranjan <rranjan(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to Mike FABIAN from comment #25)
> (In reply to Ankit Patel from comment #24)
>
> But for India, English seems to be not an unreasonable choice because
> it is commonly used everywhere in India. Therefore, I think Siddhesh’s
> argument in comment#0 is understandable. Choosing English as the default
> is maybe more “neutral” for India than any of the Indian languages.
>
> In Future, it may be nice to make that more precise, i.e. add
> more data for more precise locations to langtable to make it possible
> to make Marathi the default in Pune for example.
>
> We don’t have to use that information of course, but it would be nice
> if langtable had that sort of information as well (which language is
> used mostly in which parts of countries). If such information were
> available in langtable, we could offer German as the default for
> Zürich in Switzerland than and French for Geneva in Switzerland,
> Marathi for locations in Maharashtra, ..., if we want to.
0.027% population of India think English as their native :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speake...
Just to support “neutral” way, Hindi and other Indian language are paying the
cost.
If English is commonly used everywhere in India (a great myth created by the
few), then why data here is very different:
1.
http://www.business-standard.com/content/general_pdf/042014_04.pdf
Why top 10 news channel, no English channel is present. The viewer-ship of
Hindi is 50 times that one English and all Indian language channels surpass
English.
2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_India_by_readership
among top ten only one newspaper is of English language
3.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/tv/news/TRP-Verdic...
Top 10 TV Soaps, no one from English.
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