Schedule for Thursday's FPC Meeting (2015-05-21 16:00 UTC)
by James Antill
Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FPC
meeting Thursday at 2015-05-21 16:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1 on
irc.freenode.net.
Local time information (via. rktime):
2015-05-21 09:00 Thu US/Pacific PDT
2015-05-21 12:00 Thu US/Eastern EDT
2015-05-21 16:00 Thu UTC <-
2015-05-21 17:00 Thu Europe/London BST
2015-05-21 18:00 Thu Europe/Paris CEST
2015-05-21 18:00 Thu Europe/Berlin CEST
2015-05-21 21:30 Thu Asia/Calcutta IST
------------------new day----------------------
2015-05-22 00:00 Fri Asia/Singapore SGT
2015-05-22 00:00 Fri Asia/Hong_Kong HKT
2015-05-22 01:00 Fri Asia/Tokyo JST
2015-05-22 02:00 Fri Australia/Brisbane EST
Links to all tickets below can be found at:
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/report/13
= Followups =
#topic #281 New Python Macros for Easier Packaging
.fpc 281
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/281
#topic #508 New GID for openstack-neutron
.fpc 508
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/508
#topic #513 Use python -Es in shbang
.fpc 513
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/513
= New business =
#topic #531 Discuss guidelines for use of weak dependencies
.fpc 531
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/531
= Open Floor =
For more complete details, please visit each individual ticket. The
report of the agenda items can be found at:
https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/report/13
If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can reply to
this e-mail, file a new ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fpc,
e-mail me directly, or bring it up at the end of the meeting, during
the open floor topic. Note that added topics may be deferred until
the following meeting.
8 years, 11 months
Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2015-05-20)
by Adam Jackson
===================================
#fedora-meeting: FESCO (2015-05-20)
===================================
Meeting started by ajax at 18:00:11 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-20/fesco.2015
-05-20-18.00.log.html
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* init process (ajax, 18:00:15)
* #1441 Packaging: Practices for Migration of cron jobs to systemd
timer units (ajax, 18:05:10)
* AGREED: packages in fedora have their default timer unit settings
managed by system presets and not by their providing package (+6,
-0) (ajax, 18:28:53)
* timer unit settings recommendation to be double-checked with fpc
(ajax, 18:29:25)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
also should be updated to reflect new reality. Apart from the
obvious s/systemd/fedora-release/, both services and timers which
require or not FESCo exception need to go through the global
presets
file. (zbyszek, 18:29:47)
* sgallagh to bring timer unit issue to fpc (ajax, 18:30:13)
* ACTION: sgallagh to work with FPC on updating
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
(sgallagh, 18:30:17)
* Open Floor (ajax, 18:30:48)
* ACTION: nirik to chair next week (ajax, 18:33:08)
* Please test RC2! (ajax, 18:41:13)
Meeting ended at 18:41:28 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* sgallagh to work with FPC on updating
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
* nirik to chair next week
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* nirik
* nirik to chair next week
* sgallagh
* sgallagh to work with FPC on updating
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* sgallagh (45)
* ajax (37)
* nirik (25)
* thozza (25)
* lnykryn (13)
* dgilmore (8)
* zodbot (6)
* mattdm (6)
* paragan (4)
* jwb (4)
* zbyszek (2)
* rishi (0)
* mitr (0)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
18:00:11 <ajax> #startmeeting FESCO (2015-05-20)
18:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 20 18:00:11 2015 UTC. The
chair is ajax. Information about MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea
#link #topic.
18:00:11 <ajax> #meetingname fesco
18:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
18:00:11 <ajax> #chair ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan rishi
thozza sgallagh
18:00:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan
rishi sgallagh thozza
18:00:15 <ajax> #topic init process
18:00:20 <nirik> morning
18:00:34 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
18:00:35 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <
sgallagh(a)redhat.com>
18:00:42 <ajax> (waiting a moment for people to join)
18:01:16 <paragan> Hi
18:02:05 <thozza> hi all
18:03:16 <mattdm> hi!
18:03:18 * mattdm lurks
18:03:54 <ajax> i count five, which is a majority, but perhaps not
quorum?
18:04:22 <sgallagh> ajax: five is quorum
18:04:29 <ajax> oh indeed
18:04:39 <sgallagh> Though it means that any decision made has to be
unanimous
18:04:42 <mattdm> it just becomes concensus :)
18:04:54 <sgallagh> Which we always strive for anyway
18:05:06 <ajax> well, let's start and people can catch up
18:05:10 <ajax> #topic #1441 Packaging: Practices for Migration of
cron jobs to systemd timer units
18:05:17 <ajax> .fesco 1441
18:05:18 <zodbot> ajax: #1441 (Packaging: Practices for Migration of
cron jobs to systemd timer units) – FESCo -
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1441
18:05:36 <dgilmore> hey
18:05:39 <jwb> hi
18:06:09 <thozza> The bottom line is if we want to handle timer units
any different from other types of units
18:06:36 <thozza> it makes migration from cron jobs more painful, but
it keeps the defaults more consistent
18:06:36 <nirik> I guess the conclusion we came to was... no?
18:06:41 <sgallagh> So, the only problem with the centrally-managed
presets is third-party software. Are such packages just expected to
manage themselves in %post?
18:07:23 <thozza> I think as long as they are not included in Fedora
repos, do we care?
18:07:30 <lnykryn> they should ship their own preset file
18:07:37 <sgallagh> thozza: Well, COPR makes the question fuzzy
18:08:18 <sgallagh> lnykryn:
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1441#comment:17
18:08:19 <thozza> sgallagh: right, but those packages can do stuff that
does not completely comply to packaging guidelines
18:08:42 <sgallagh> thozza: Right, but I'd still like to have
recommendations exist on how to behave
18:09:13 <thozza> ok, I'm not opposed to that, however I was more
concerned about the packages included in Fedora repos
18:09:14 <sgallagh> lnykryn: Short version: a package shipping its own
preset is fundamentally identical to managing itself in %post
18:09:21 <nirik> I'd say they handle it in %post yeah
18:09:25 <lnykryn> sgallagh: it is not
18:09:27 <sgallagh> Because the admin can't configure it before the
package is installed
18:09:57 <lnykryn> admin can still deny for all unit files to enable
themselfs
18:10:16 <sgallagh> lnykryn: No, because %post can just call 'systemctl
enable'
18:10:26 <sgallagh> It's running as root
18:10:39 <thozza> sgallagh: I think lnykryn means the situation with
own presets
18:10:43 <lnykryn> I was speaking about the case where package ship its
own unit file and calls preset
18:10:57 <sgallagh> lnykryn: Can that be restricted?
18:11:15 <lnykryn> sgallagh: sure we are looking for the first match
18:11:27 <lnykryn> so you can ship conf with lower number and some glob
18:11:35 <thozza> lnykryn: the package can install preset that will be
first
18:11:45 <lnykryn> sure it can
18:12:05 <lnykryn> but that is a corner case
18:12:12 <nirik> I'm not sure that helps too much really.
18:12:24 <thozza> so in the end it depends how the preset file is named
18:12:33 <lnykryn> yes they are numbered
18:12:37 <sgallagh> Also, putting a glob early in the process will
likely break everything else :(
18:12:51 <lnykryn> if you know what you are doing ...
18:13:45 <nirik> well, if we are talking about packages not in fedora,
who knows... they can do anything at all.
18:13:48 <thozza> so to make use of own presets in comparison to %post,
the admin would have to do things, that would most probably break his
system
18:13:50 <sgallagh> Yeah
18:14:20 <thozza> I think that his is kind of out of scope to decide
18:14:21 <lnykryn> no there is still the use-case that admin wants to
have every new service disabled by default
18:14:38 <thozza> lnykryn: which we just discussed
18:15:00 <sgallagh> lnykryn: Right, but I don't think it's actually
possible to do that (reliably) just with presets.
18:15:02 <nirik> unless everyone agrees to some convention there, it's
not likely to work
18:15:10 <sgallagh> I think that would need to be a different systemd
feature\
18:15:29 <ajax> i mean, systemd controls the world, it could shove rpm
into a cgroup where systemctl enable didn't work.
18:15:36 <ajax> right?
18:15:54 <ajax> but failing that i think some spec convention and qa
assurances are the best we can do
18:15:57 <nirik> or you could install your new stuff with --noscripts.
;)
18:16:09 <nirik> but I think we are going far afield
18:16:11 <sgallagh> nirik: No one would do that.
18:16:16 <thozza> so back to timer units ;)
18:16:17 <sgallagh> I like ajax's idea though
18:16:37 <ajax> right. is there a concrete proposal we should be
debating for timer units?
18:17:16 <thozza> personally I don't think that it would be that bad to
allow to ship own preset for timer unit in some cases is bad thing...
however since we moved presets to fedora-release things may work better
now
18:18:01 <sgallagh> OK, so first proposal:
18:18:05 * thozza reading what I wrote... I think I changed the idea in
the middle of sentence
18:18:06 <thozza> :)
18:18:17 <sgallagh> Proposal: Timer units' default state should be
managed by the system presets
18:18:26 <sgallagh> (Not by the packages installing them)
18:18:51 <nirik> ok. +1ish
18:19:17 <sgallagh> +1
18:19:17 <thozza> I agree to some extent
18:19:29 <sgallagh> Let me rephrase
18:19:59 <sgallagh> Proposal: For packages in the Fedora collection,
the default state of their timer units should be managed by the system
presets and not by the packages that contain them.
18:20:40 <nirik> sure. +1
18:20:49 <thozza> in case it will not take a month to get unit into
presets ;)
18:20:57 * nirik is hoping adding to presets will be reasonably
responsive
18:20:57 <ajax> +1
18:20:59 <nirik> yeah.
18:21:36 <paragan> sorry if I missed in above discussion but can
someone tell what is problem if individual packages allowed to change
default state?
18:21:49 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Did you end up making that its own
repository or as part of fedora-release/generic-release?
18:22:03 <ajax> paragan: consistency of expectations for the admin,
aiui
18:22:07 <sgallagh> paragan:
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1441#comment:17
18:22:36 <paragan> ah okay
18:23:05 <paragan> +1 to sgallagh proposal
18:23:37 <sgallagh> dgilmore: s/that/presets/ and s/repository/package/
18:24:18 <sgallagh> I think that we may want to have that be its own
package with multiple maintainers rather than fedora-release which is
painful to keep updated.
18:24:31 <sgallagh> (Also, probably a dist-git hosted package rather
than an upstream)
18:24:37 <thozza> sgallagh: I think that would speed up the process
18:24:54 <lnykryn> (by the way we already have this process in rhel and
redhat-release)
18:25:31 <thozza> lnykryn: I think we are talking about completely
separate component
18:25:45 <ajax> i count 4 votes (me, nirik, paragan, sgallagh
implicitly transferring his +1 to his clarification)
18:25:53 <dgilmore> sgallagh: its just in fedora-release
18:25:58 <lnykryn> thozza: that was just a mention
18:26:10 <dgilmore> sgallagh: I am going to duplicate into generic
-release
18:26:26 <thozza> I will be +1 if we make the process reasonably easy
18:26:27 * nirik notes we should get anything we decide
codified/approved by FPC too.
18:26:38 <sgallagh> nirik: Agreed
18:26:43 <thozza> moving presets to fedora-release is a good step
18:27:15 <ajax> well, i'm not a fortune teller, but i expect products
to actively participate
18:27:15 <dgilmore> I am +1 to having timers default state in system
wide preset files
18:27:17 <sgallagh> dgilmore: My recommendation is that we split it out
of fedora-release and make it into fedora-presets where we can have a
number of maintainers with access (without risking the stability of
fedora-release_
18:27:55 <sgallagh> Maybe give commit privilege to fedora-presets to
FESCo and WG liasons
18:28:01 <dgilmore> sgallagh: honestly do not really care. as is I
think it is fine, it should be very manageable upstream will pull
requests
18:28:12 <sgallagh> ok
18:28:30 <nirik> we can split it if it turns out to be better long
term?
18:28:35 <sgallagh> Sure, I'm okay with leaving it as-is and revisiting
if the process becomes bogged down
18:28:53 <ajax> #agreed packages in fedora have their default timer
unit settings managed by system presets and not by their providing
package (+6, -0)
18:29:07 <thozza> I'm also OK with revisiting if needed and keeping it
as is for now ~ in fedora-release
18:29:25 <ajax> #info timer unit settings recommendation to be double
-checked with fpc
18:29:31 <ajax> someone want to handle taking this to fpc?
18:29:41 <sgallagh> /me volunteers
18:29:47 <zbyszek>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
also should be updated to reflect new reality. Apart from the obvious
s/systemd/fedora-release/, both services and timers which require or
not FESCo exception need to go through the global presets file.
18:30:04 <sgallagh> zbyszek: Yes, thanks. I'll open an FPC ticket for
that as well
18:30:13 <ajax> #info sgallagh to bring timer unit issue to fpc
18:30:16 <ajax> sgallagh: thanks
18:30:17 <sgallagh> #action sgallagh to work with FPC on updating
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default
18:30:29 * nirik has a timer to submit too. ;)
18:30:38 <thozza> zbyszek: I think we could generalize to any type of
unit
18:30:39 <sgallagh> nirik: Is it the end-of-meeting-timer?
18:30:44 <ajax> just about!
18:30:48 <ajax> #topic Open Floor
18:30:59 <nirik> ha. :) spamassassin's sa-update... but sure. ;)
18:31:26 <ajax> there were a couple of other fesco tickets more recent
than 1441
18:31:35 <zbyszek> thozza: yes, it applies to .sockets and anything
else which can activate services...
18:31:47 <ajax> which mostly look like they can be handled in the
ticket
18:31:52 <thozza> zbyszek: lnykryn mentioned e.g. path units and so
on...
18:32:01 <nirik> ajax: we need a next weeks chair selection too.
18:32:09 <ajax> so, if'n people can take a look at the fesco trac,
that'd be super
18:32:16 <ajax> nirik: indeed. volunteers?
18:32:54 <nirik> I've not done it for a bit, I can.
18:33:08 <ajax> #action nirik to chair next week
18:33:13 <ajax> nirik: thanks
18:33:33 <ajax> if there are no other open issues i'll close out in a
couple minutes
18:34:13 <sgallagh> Just a general note: RC1 looked quite good, but we
had one blocker necessitating a respin tonight.
18:34:29 <nirik> hopefully RC2 will be a keeper.
18:34:40 <sgallagh> So this is a general request for people to help
test RC2; we expect it to be Go tomorrow at the meeting.
18:34:44 <sgallagh> Here's hoping.
18:36:46 * mattdm hopes that the ext4 issue making the blog rounds
turns out to be not a serious thing
18:37:14 <nirik> yeah. Infomation on it is so sketchy.
18:37:28 <sgallagh> I have trouble caring. I run XFS :-D
18:37:52 <sgallagh> (I'm kidding of course; I hope this doesn't bite
us, but the timing is suboptimal)
18:38:08 <sgallagh> We probably won't know for certain how bad this is
until it's too late to stop the machinery.
18:38:42 <nirik> yeah
18:39:05 <nirik> it's not super common or we would have seen more
reports... or... well, almost any
18:39:18 <dgilmore> RC2 is well underway
18:39:28 <dgilmore> it should be out this evening US time
18:39:39 <mattdm> afaik it affects mdadm raid — that just might not
have been common enough, or in the right triggering config — to get
enough exposure
18:40:16 <jwb> or people who are testing f22 are already running 4.0.4
from updates-testing and it's already fixed
18:40:19 <jwb> WHO KNOWS
18:40:20 <nirik> mattdm: I have a machine using raid with the
'affected' kernel with 0 problems
18:40:29 <jwb> talking about it more isn't going to result in anything
useful at this point
18:40:36 * nirik nods. stops
18:40:42 <ajax> hey, we're running off the rails!
18:40:55 * mattdm is sorry
18:41:00 <nirik> does that make this a crazy train? ;)
18:41:01 <dgilmore> so please be testing RC2 when it is out
18:41:03 <ajax> if you want #fedora-devel you know where to find it ;)
18:41:13 <ajax> #info Please test RC2!
18:41:26 <ajax> thanks all
18:41:28 <ajax> #endmeeting
- ajax
8 years, 11 months
Heads-up: icedtea-web in comps
by Michael Catanzaro
Hi,
I've removed icedtea-web from the firefox group in comps for F23 (not
F22). If icedtea-web is installed by default in your spin and you want
to keep it in F23, please add it into your spin's group. This is so
that we can keep the firefox group as optional in the gnome-desktop-
environment category without pulling in yucky icedtea-web
automatically.
Note: There should be no user-facing change except when performing a
netinstall and selecting GNOME Desktop Environment. Fedora Workstation
already did not include icedtea-web.
Michael
8 years, 11 months
Compiling boost-related C++ projects
by Antonio Trande
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Hi all.
Do exist packaging guidelines for building boost-related C++ projects
with 'bjam' utility ?
Are there particular rules or packages already in Fedora built with
this method ?
Thanks.
- --
Antonio Trande
mailto: sagitter 'at' fedoraproject 'dot' org
http://fedoraos.wordpress.com/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sagitter
GPG Key: 0x565E653C
Check on https://keys.fedoraproject.org/
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8 years, 11 months
F-22 Branched report: 20150520 changes
by Fedora compose checker
Compose started at Wed May 20 07:15:03 UTC 2015
Broken deps for armhfp
----------------------------------------------------------
[xorg-x11-drivers]
xorg-x11-drivers-7.7-13.fc22.armv7hl requires xorg-x11-drv-void
Broken deps for i386
----------------------------------------------------------
[xorg-x11-drivers]
xorg-x11-drivers-7.7-13.fc22.i686 requires xorg-x11-drv-void
Broken deps for x86_64
----------------------------------------------------------
[xorg-x11-drivers]
xorg-x11-drivers-7.7-13.fc22.x86_64 requires xorg-x11-drv-void
Summary:
Added Packages: 0
Removed Packages: 0
Modified Packages: 0
Size of added packages: 0 (0 )
Size change of modified packages: 0 (0 )
Size of removed packages: 0 (0 )
Size change: 0 (0 )
Compose finished at Wed May 20 13:47:03 UTC 2015
8 years, 11 months
Deprecation of ISC's DLV registry
by Tomas Hozza
Hi all.
I received a heads-up from ISC that they are planning to deprecate their
DLV registry (https://dlv.isc.org/) in the future.
The use of ISC's DLV repository should be removed from any default configuration
to prevent any issues in the future. I'm aware only about BIND and Unbound servers
that use ISC's DLV in their default configuration in Fedora.
If you are aware of any other component, please file a bug and add it to the
tracking bug:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1223360
Thanks!
Regards,
Tomas
--
Tomas Hozza
Software Engineer - EMEA ENG Developer Experience
PGP: 1D9F3C2D
Red Hat Inc. http://cz.redhat.com
8 years, 11 months
