What command should this menu entries run ? i was hoping there would be a simple 'pirut --install foo' or 'pup --install foo' option, but apparently there isn't.

This is an idea I've had about a year ago and gave some thought on and off since then, but Richard Hughes has mentioned a similar idea several times on this list as well. The idea is to show the (large number of) applications available to Fedora users through yum, but instead of a linear list displayed in pirut for example, show them directly in the main menu: that way the available apps are already categorized in a familiar way, and you can see the application icons and short descriptions through the menu tooltip. For kicks and giggles, I hacked up a proof-of-concept RPM here for F-8 : http://www.poolshark.org/src/fedora-apps-0.1-1.fc8.i386.rpm After installation, you'll have to restart the gnome-panel with a quick 'killall gnome-panel'. The rpm is 5 MB, which is not bad for almost 1000 apps (remember we're only talking about GUI apps here, i.e. apps that install a desktop file). Screenshots: http://www.poolshark.org/apps1.png The RPM comes with a 'fedora-apps-update' binary that updates the symlinks based on the apps already installed (so that an installed application doesn't show up on the uninstalled list). What command should this menu entries run ? i was hoping there would be a simple 'pirut --install foo' or 'pup --install foo' option, but apparently there isn't. Comments ? -denis

foo Command not found: foo This program is available for Fedora but is not currently installed. To install this program type (as root): yum install FooPackage

> For instance, user knows (from a friend or random webpage) that the > program foo is neat, and tries to start it: > > foo > > Command not found: foo > > This program is available for Fedora but is not currently installed. > > To install this program type (as root): yum install FooPackage That'd be nice to have also, and i think is fairly orthogonal to the fedora-apps RPM idea. After all this targets terminal users, while the uninstalled icons target all users, especially those that never use a terminal app (i.e. those for whom the only way to install additional software is with the 'Add/Remove Software' menu entry, aka pirut).

This is an idea I've had about a year ago and gave some thought on and off since then, but Richard Hughes has mentioned a similar idea several times on this list as well. The idea is to show the (large number of) applications available to Fedora users through yum, but instead of a linear list displayed in pirut for example, show them directly in the main menu: that way the available apps are already categorized in a familiar way, and you can see the application icons and short descriptions through the menu tooltip. For kicks and giggles, I hacked up a proof-of-concept RPM here for F-8 : http://www.poolshark.org/src/fedora-apps-0.1-1.fc8.i386.rpm After installation, you'll have to restart the gnome-panel with a quick 'killall gnome-panel'. The rpm is 5 MB, which is not bad for almost 1000 apps (remember we're only talking about GUI apps here, i.e. apps that install a desktop file). Screenshots: http://www.poolshark.org/apps1.png The RPM comes with a 'fedora-apps-update' binary that updates the symlinks based on the apps already installed (so that an installed application doesn't show up on the uninstalled list). What command should this menu entries run ? i was hoping there would be a simple 'pirut --install foo' or 'pup --install foo' option, but apparently there isn't. Comments ? -denis

On Jan 19, 2008 7:46 PM, Arthur Pemberton <pemboa(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > While I don't think it should be exactly how you have it, an > 'Uninstalled' submenu in every category, seems like a great idea to > me. Until someone decides to manually re-arrange the listings on the system using a menu editor :-> -jef

Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On Jan 19, 2008 11:42 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> On Jan 19, 2008 7:46 PM, Arthur Pemberton <pemboa(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> While I don't think it should be exactly how you have it, an >>> 'Uninstalled' submenu in every category, seems like a great idea to >>> me. >> Until someone decides to manually re-arrange the listings on the >> system using a menu editor :-> >> >> -jef >> > > > I personally think this should be a first level menu myself. An > immutable one at that. And install of 'uninstalled' might want to say > 'available' Immutable, and first level seems reasonable. The title is debatable, since 'available' has multiple meanings, and the software is not available to the person who wants to use it when they click on the menu... its acquirable, its not yet installed, its offered, but not yet available. If something like 'Repository Software' was used, that would be clear (but not very 'sophisticated').

Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On Jan 19, 2008 11:42 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> On Jan 19, 2008 7:46 PM, Arthur Pemberton <pemboa(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> While I don't think it should be exactly how you have it, an >>> 'Uninstalled' submenu in every category, seems like a great idea to >>> me. >> Until someone decides to manually re-arrange the listings on the >> system using a menu editor :-> >> >> -jef >> > > > I personally think this should be a first level menu myself. An > immutable one at that. And install of 'uninstalled' might want to say > 'available' Immutable, and first level seems reasonable. The title is debatable, since 'available' has multiple meanings, and the software is not available to the person who wants to use it when they click on the menu... its acquirable, its not yet installed, its offered, but not yet available. If something like 'Repository Software' was used, that would be clear (but not very 'sophisticated').

How about if the current "Add/Remove Software" was a directory instead of a link to pirut. It would open up a submenu with the regular pirut link on top, followed by a separator then a mirror of the main application categories containing all uninstalled apps ?

On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 02:22 +0100, Denis Leroy wrote: > This is an idea I've had about a year ago and gave some thought on and > off since then, but Richard Hughes has mentioned a similar idea several > times on this list as well. > > The idea is to show the (large number of) applications available to > Fedora users through yum, but instead of a linear list displayed in > pirut for example, show them directly in the main menu: that way the > available apps are already categorized in a familiar way, and you can > see the application icons and short descriptions through the menu > tooltip. This just sounds like an awesome idea to me. I wonder how tightly could that be integrated into Gnome and the desktop file specification. It would be kind of elegant if the .desktop file contained a boolean stating if the application is installed.

Then the gnome menu would contain something that would resemble the thing that expands personalized menus in Windows except for that it would unhide the uninstalled applications. And this could be turned off, of course :) In KDE4, the Search capability of the menu could be enough for user not to get lost in not-installed applications. -- Lubomir Kundrak (Red Hat Security Response Team) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

For kicks and giggles, I hacked up a proof-of-concept RPM here for F-8 : http://www.poolshark.org/src/fedora-apps-0.1-1.fc8.i386.rpm After installation, you'll have to restart the gnome-panel with a quick 'killall gnome-panel'. The rpm is 5 MB, which is not bad for almost 1000 apps (remember we're only talking about GUI apps here, i.e. apps that install a desktop file).

Bill Nottingham wrote: > Denis Leroy (denis(a)poolshark.org) said: >> For kicks and giggles, I hacked up a proof-of-concept RPM here for F-8 : >> >> http://www.poolshark.org/src/fedora-apps-0.1-1.fc8.i386.rpm >> >> After installation, you'll have to restart the gnome-panel with a >> quick 'killall gnome-panel'. The rpm is 5 MB, which is not bad for >> almost 1000 apps (remember we're only talking about GUI apps here, >> i.e. apps that install a desktop file). > > Interesting idea. You're setting yourself up for a lot of pain on the > package maintenance side, I fear. Well that all depends on how much scripting I'm prepared to make :-) I used a number of scripts to extract the desktop and icon files out of the RPMs, parse the desktop files, etc... in theory it's 100% scriptable. Now, things would be considerably easier if this was integrated into packagedb: flag packages that have desktop entries, add information such as short description and icon. Then we could push the idea further and add things such as screenshots, for example. Then we'd have all the raw data necessary to create a real "fedora software installation assistant". There are some challenges to providing this through a regular package review though: may need collaboration with redhat-menus (integration into main menu) and/or desktop-utils owners (to update list of uninstalled apps after an RPM is installed manually).

Andrew Farris wrote: > Denis Leroy wrote: >> Bill Nottingham wrote: >>> Denis Leroy (denis(a)poolshark.org) said: >>>> For kicks and giggles, I hacked up a proof-of-concept RPM here for >>>> F-8 : >>>> >>>> http://www.poolshark.org/src/fedora-apps-0.1-1.fc8.i386.rpm >>>> >>>> After installation, you'll have to restart the gnome-panel with a >>>> quick 'killall gnome-panel'. The rpm is 5 MB, which is not bad for >>>> almost 1000 apps (remember we're only talking about GUI apps here, >>>> i.e. apps that install a desktop file). >>> >>> Interesting idea. You're setting yourself up for a lot of pain on the >>> package maintenance side, I fear. >> >> Well that all depends on how much scripting I'm prepared to make :-) >> >> I used a number of scripts to extract the desktop and icon files out >> of the RPMs, parse the desktop files, etc... in theory it's 100% >> scriptable. Now, things would be considerably easier if this was >> integrated into packagedb: flag packages that have desktop entries, >> add information such as short description and icon. Then we could >> push the idea further and add things such as screenshots, for >> example. Then we'd have all the raw data necessary to create a real >> "fedora software installation assistant". >> >> There are some challenges to providing this through a regular package >> review though: may need collaboration with redhat-menus (integration >> into main menu) and/or desktop-utils owners (to update list of >> uninstalled apps after an RPM is installed manually). > > One issue right now is that all those applications show up as options > in the 'open with' menus of Gnome right now, even the not installed > apps. If you try to open an image with gimp while the fedora-apps rpm > is installed the menu will show many image editors and viewers you > don't have installed. That obviously needs to be prevented. Yes I noticed also. I think it's just a matter of filtering the Mime entries out of the desktop files...

Andrew Farris wrote: > One issue right now is that all those applications show up as options in > the 'open with' menus of Gnome right now, even the not installed apps. > If you try to open an image with gimp while the fedora-apps rpm is > installed the menu will show many image editors and viewers you don't > have installed. That obviously needs to be prevented. Yes I noticed also. I think it's just a matter of filtering the Mime entries out of the desktop files...