2:39 a.m.
Hello,
First, I apologise to fedora-trans-list to mail this message again.
I have been translating fedora in French for few months only and i'm
facing problems with contributors' translations.
I used to translate po files, and, as we were very few French
translators (2 *only*), it was quite easy to ask for the mate to read
over the translation and to know what he is actually doing.
However, now that I have less free time and now that we are more than 2
translating Fedora into French, when I take the initiative to translate
2 or 3 missing or recently added strings, I met bad translation and
mistakes.
There are few problems in our translation process :
- People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
no way to know who is working on what.
- The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated, but
useless to know what has been read over.
- People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they do,
they don't update they reservation.
What I'm planning to do : take every po file, and read over them until
FC7 comes out. This is the only way I found to avoid bad translation in
Fedora.
Any advice to help out ?
As we are changing lots of things on Fedora, wouldn't be the time to
improve the translation process :
- we shouldn't give anymore rights to upload CVS translation. CVS should
only be accessible in read only and only people that read translation
over should be allowed to update po to the CVS.
- as there is mailing list for modifications on CVS docs, we need a
mailing list as well for each language po modification. Mailing list are
easy to set up and do not consume any ressources.
- we could also use a system allowing to add a status of what has to be
done with a po file : "waiting for translation", "waiting for being read
over", "translation in progress" for example, are status that could be
used.
just my 2 cents.
[1] http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status
--
Thomas Canniot
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot
11:46 a.m.
Le jeudi 23 novembre 2006 à 11:03 +0100, Xavier Conde Rueda a écrit :
Hi Thomas,
>
> I have been translating fedora in French for few months only and i'm
> facing problems with contributors' translations.
>
> I used to translate po files, and, as we were very few French
> translators (2 *only*), it was quite easy to ask for the mate to read
> over the translation and to know what he is actually doing.
>
> However, now that I have less free time and now that we are more than 2
> translating Fedora into French, when I take the initiative to translate
> 2 or 3 missing or recently added strings, I met bad translation and
> mistakes.
>
> There are few problems in our translation process :
>
> - People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
> translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
> any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
> no way to know who is working on what.
-- This is bad management. You should fix that by yourself. As the
project leader, you should query the status of translations. On
voluntary projects it's important to track the status of other's work,
since they don't have an economical commitment, also people is very
selective on what they spend their free time.
I am not a project leader. I am just someone who learned English at university and who
just see mistakes more than others tranlsators do.
> - The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated, but
> useless to know what has been read over.
> - People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they do,
> they don't update they reservation.
-- You should assign translations to translators. Only one person
should have commit access for a given project. When people wants to
translate something, send them the PO file. You should manage by
yourself who is doing what. A simple spreadsheet will do.
How to step back with people who already have all the rights ? I can't *obviously*
take them this right back, nor I want to.
I don't want to be the one who decide, because I believe people are able enough to
decide for themselves. If people want to translate something, then they do it, it's
their choice.
Nobody should have a word about what they would want to do, as long as it is good for the
Project.
Anyway, I find the take button completely useless, not to mention the
bunch of mails saying it's going to expire soon. I suppose people
doesn't want to get 5 mails each time they take a module, so they do
it once, but not twice :). It's not good for synchronization.
So do I.
> What I'm planning to do : take every po file, and read over them until
> FC7 comes out. This is the only way I found to avoid bad translation in
> Fedora.
>
> Any advice to help out ?
>
> As we are changing lots of things on Fedora, wouldn't be the time to
> improve the translation process :
> - we shouldn't give anymore rights to upload CVS translation. CVS should
> only be accessible in read only and only people that read translation
> over should be allowed to update po to the CVS.
-- As I said, only project leaders should have commit access, not everybody.
> - as there is mailing list for modifications on CVS docs, we need a
> mailing list as well for each language po modification. Mailing list are
> easy to set up and do not consume any ressources.
-- There is a commits list you can subscribe, it will do for you. But
it's the same thing, only you should be committing. Personally, for
Catalan we don't need it. Not sure we need it for every language.
The problem of *leader* is that one day, I may not be as available as other people would
like me to.
We are facing this problem in France, and the leader of the GNOME translation Project is
not very well seen by people.
The French GNOME community is divided and does not work to its full capabilities.
> - we could also use a system allowing to add a status of what has to be
> done with a po file : "waiting for translation", "waiting for being
read
> over", "translation in progress" for example, are status that could
be
> used.
-- If Fedora provides a full web translation management environment it
would be great. However, a wiki page could be used, where each
contributor writes down the status of their current translation.
If they do so, they could actually mail the list, that they don't do. Why would they
write it on a wiki page ?
I think we are more at a state where people should be obliged to tell the status of their
translation to commit it.
Regards!
> just my 2 cents.
>
> [1] http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status
> --
> Thomas Canniot
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot
>
--
Thomas Canniot
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot
6:07 p.m.
Hello~
Thomas Canniot wrote:
There are few problems in our translation process :
- People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
no way to know who is working on what.
How are they communicating then? If they do not communicate at all, but
going their own, then you can ask them, no?
Assuming the mailing list pointed here is fedora-trans-fr, keep posting
then people can have a chance to learn proper way. It might be also
useful to copy and paste the diff, so others can easily proofread. This
is what fedora-trans-ja doing and I've learn it from there.
- The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated,
but
useless to know what has been read over.
- People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they do,
they don't update they reservation.
Aman and Chester: PING!
I thought that people can not commit without clicking "take" button. Can
you take a look?
What I'm planning to do : take every po file, and read over them until
FC7 comes out. This is the only way I found to avoid bad translation in
Fedora.
Howabout being the maintainer, so that the mail will be sent to you if
someone translated the file.
cheers
noriko
12:02 a.m.
Noriko Mizumoto ਨੇ ਲਿਖਿਆ:
Hello~
Thomas Canniot wrote:
> There are few problems in our translation process :
>
> - People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
> translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
> any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
> no way to know who is working on what.
How are they communicating then? If they do not communicate at all, but
going their own, then you can ask them, no?
Assuming the mailing list pointed here is fedora-trans-fr, keep posting
then people can have a chance to learn proper way. It might be also
useful to copy and paste the diff, so others can easily proofread. This
is what fedora-trans-ja doing and I've learn it from there.
> - The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated, but
> useless to know what has been read over.
> - People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they do,
> they don't update they reservation.
Aman and Chester: PING!
I thought that people can not commit without clicking "take" button. Can
you take a look?
no, this not true, 'Take' button is not very effective, I
myself commit to
CVS without 'Take' Button.:)
>
> What I'm planning to do : take every po file, and read over them until
> FC7 comes out. This is the only way I found to avoid bad translation in
> Fedora.
Howabout being the maintainer, so that the mail will be sent to you if
someone translated the file.
this is solution to get information when someone commit or change a file,
for which you are Maintainer
regrds
--
A S Alam
timezone: GMT+5:30
join us at #fedora-l10n (freenode)
"Either find a way or make one"
12:07 a.m.
A S Alam ਨੇ ਲਿਖਿਆ:
Noriko Mizumoto ਨੇ ਲਿਖਿਆ:
> Hello~
>
> Thomas Canniot wrote:
>> There are few problems in our translation process :
>>
>> - People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
>> translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
>> any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
>> no way to know who is working on what.
>
> How are they communicating then? If they do not communicate at all,
> but going their own, then you can ask them, no?
> Assuming the mailing list pointed here is fedora-trans-fr, keep
> posting then people can have a chance to learn proper way. It might be
> also useful to copy and paste the diff, so others can easily
> proofread. This is what fedora-trans-ja doing and I've learn it from
> there.
>
>> - The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated, but
>> useless to know what has been read over.
>> - People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they
do,
>> they don't update they reservation.
>
> Aman and Chester: PING!
> I thought that people can not commit without clicking "take" button.
> Can you take a look?
no, this not true, 'Take' button is not very effective, I myself commit to
CVS without 'Take' Button.:)
and of course as normal user (with external account)
--
A S Alam
timezone: GMT+5:30
join us at #fedora-l10n (freenode)
"Either find a way or make one"
6:21 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thomas Canniot wrote:
Hello,
First, I apologise to fedora-trans-list to mail this message again.
I have been translating fedora in French for few months only and i'm
facing problems with contributors' translations.
I used to translate po files, and, as we were very few French
translators (2 *only*), it was quite easy to ask for the mate to read
over the translation and to know what he is actually doing.
However, now that I have less free time and now that we are more than 2
translating Fedora into French, when I take the initiative to translate
2 or 3 missing or recently added strings, I met bad translation and
mistakes.
this is a classic L18N issue
There are few problems in our translation process :
- People are not communicating by mailing list. The fact is that
translation is often seen as a lonely activity and that you don't need
any response from someone to take a po file and translate it. There is
no way to know who is working on what.
- The status page [1] are useful to know what has been translated, but
useless to know what has been read over.
- People do not use the reservation system "take" button and if they do,
they don't update they reservation.
You need to handle the process as a formal project, with translation,
revision/proofreading and Q&A
What I'm planning to do : take every po file, and read over them until
FC7 comes out. This is the only way I found to avoid bad translation in
Fedora.
Any advice to help out ?
UI stings can be messy but you need to establish a kind of 'master glossary'
As we are changing lots of things on Fedora, wouldn't be the time to
improve the translation process :
- we shouldn't give anymore rights to upload CVS translation. CVS should
only be accessible in read only and only people that read translation
over should be allowed to update po to the CVS.
- as there is mailing list for modifications on CVS docs, we need a
mailing list as well for each language po modification. Mailing list are
easy to set up and do not consume any ressources.
- we could also use a system allowing to add a status of what has to be
done with a po file : "waiting for translation", "waiting for being read
over", "translation in progress" for example, are status that could be
used.
just my 2 cents.
[1] http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status
Allow me to jump in as I am a
sysadmin who used to lead a translation
department in another life...
a localization workflow is pretty easy to set up provided you have some
quick checks or milestones. I am willing to help on this as I am
familiar with SCM on the one hand and CAT tools on the other.
I appreciate that there is some kind of process already into place but
it's never too late.
I have not followed the translation lifecycle of Fedora as I use it in
English (I am based in the UK) but being a French native with formal
L18N experience give me a shout and we can probably formalise a way forward
Thierry
- --
(o< Thierry Sayegh de Bellis, RHCE
//\ http://glossolalie.com
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6364
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5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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A S Alam -
Noriko Mizumoto -
Thierry -
Thomas Canniot